Was Andrea Yates really insane when she killed her kids?

[taylor63]

I was wondering what everyone's opinion on this is? Because I have never really decided what I think. In one way,I think she had to be out of her mind,to do what she did because it was just so horrific, especially with the last little boy chasing him then dragging him in the tub, and drowning him in the urine and feces of his siblings.

On the other hand,I wonder if she really was insane, how could she have planned out things the way she did, and waited for her husband to leave, and locked the doors to her home? Then calmy called 911 and told them what she did? This case has haunted me more than any other crime case,but unlike most people I have not really come down on one side either way. What is everyone opinions on this horrible tragedy?

[cookiewench]

Yes; she was definitely insane. She had a long history of delusions, commitments to hospitals, etc.

Acoording to everyone who'd known her, she'd been an excellent, involved, loving mother.

A person can be psychotic, know what they are doing is wrong legally, and yet that delusion is so strong that they have to follow it, regardless. She actually believed that by killing her children she was "saving" them from Satan.

She didn't try to cover up the crime or claim that someone had broken into her house and killed her children. She didn't even try to escape punishment.

I have sympathy for Andrea Yates. When she finally became (or becomes, as I have no idea what her condition is at present) stabilized by medication, she'll have to live with the knowledge of what she did while insane for the rest of her life.

Her husband really let her down. He let those kids down, too. She had been having problems with psychosis for years, yet having all those children was more important to him than his wife's mental health.

JMHO

[poodle]

I think her religion messed up her mind. JMO

[SaraSidle]

Andrea had post partum depression after the birth of each child and it developed into a psychosis that her husband completely ignored in the time they were married. She is not responsible nor is her religion. Just a very neglectful husband in denial She should have been on medication years ago.

[poodle]

Andrea had post partum depression after the birth of each child and it developed into a psychosis that her husband completely ignored in the time they were married. She is not responsible nor is her religion. Just a very neglectful husband in denial She should have been on medication years ago.

I agree with what you have stated, but I do believe that this holy rolller that she was being adviced by was corrupting her mind and her clear thinking. This religion/holy roller mentality caused Andrea to misunderstand herself and her true responsibilities of being a mother who would never harm her children for the sins of the parents. JMO

[poodle]

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/news2/an020123-09.html

[poodle]

http://www.jonathantweet.com/jotreligionyates.html

[lilmiss1960]

No, I don't think she was insane. I think she knew exactly what she was doing. The fact that some of those children had to have struggled against her should have been enough to snap her out of it and made her stop, but she didn't. She systematically drowned each one of them.
If they wanted to find her insane, fine. But as soon as she was deemed sane, she would have been sent to prison to serve her sentence. I also feel her husband had some responsibilty too. He was told, no more babies until your wife is stable mentally. Either he uses protection or she get's her tubes tide, if she suffered from post partum depression after each baby. I don't think it was with each baby though, I think it was after she had the second to the last baby the doctor told her husband she shouldn't have any more kids.
Didn't he get remarried? Did him and his new wife have kids and if so, how many?
Look at how many mom's are now coping what Andrea Yates had done? They kill their children, call their husband's and/or 911 to tell them they just drowned their children. How many of them are now using the post partum depression, thinking that they will get a month's rest in a cushy psych ward?
Andrea was allowed to go on outings; movies, shopping and so on. Her poor babies sure weren't having a good time.
None of them will grow up, finish school, go on dates, go to college, get married or have children of their own. I don't believe Yates was punished enough at all. A few years in prison, a month in the psych ward and she's cured? I don't think so. She certainly put the weight on while in prison.
I'm sure she felt over whelmed, but didn't she have family and/or friends she could have called before she murdered them?
IMO, murder is murder. We have plenty of people in prisons who suffer from some form psychosis or another.

[SaraSidle]

you know I have no links but I worked with psychotics for 15 years. when they think they have to kill someone there is not a choice or right or wrong. And after they do this terrible thing and get put on medication they feel guilt and some psychosis the rest of their life no matter drugs or counseling and can never be normal. It is very sad. I can only describe it as such a different kind of thought process that is inconceivable to most sane people. and as I stated earlier there was mention that she had post partum depression after each child which can lead to psychosis. I have no links but this was not a normal act please...............

[lilmiss1960]

Sara, what makes her sane is the fact that she planned it. It wasn't a spur of the moment kind of thing. She waited until her husband left for work and then she LOCKED the doors, preventing anyone from coming and interrupting her if anyone came to the door and heard her children screaming and yelling in fear.
She systematically drowned each one of them, one by one. These children had to have struggled against her, so IF she was having a psychotic moment, that alone should have snapped her out of it.
If you are going to have a psychotic break down, you plan ahead of time what you are going to do and how you are going to do it.
IIRC, she had been diagnosed with postpartum depression before so she most certainly would have known what was going on with her and she could have called someone for help, at the very least, she could have called 911 and told them she was suffering from postpartum depression and felt like she was going to arm the children, or she could have called her husband at work and told him if he doesn't come home immediately, she was going to kill the children or what about calling a help line?
She had lots of options she could have done other than drown each of her children one by one.
Maybe her reason was she simply didn't want to be a mom anymore.

[SaraSidle]

Sorry but a psychotic break is not something you can put into a box and label it......She has clearly stated ever since she started having children that she had post partum depression and her lovely husband never helped. I wish we could make sense of the whole thing but we will never be able to. Can't get inside that mind but it thinks very differently than you do. I have worked with women who had that psychotic episode and she will never heal if that makes you feel better.

[enlightenme]

Sorry but a psychotic break is not something you can put into a box and label it......She has clearly stated ever since she started having children that she had post partum depression and her lovely husband never helped. I wish we could make sense of the whole thing but we will never be able to. Can't get inside that mind but it thinks very differently than you do. I have worked with women who had that psychotic episode and she will never heal if that makes you feel better.


She had 5 children in less than 7 years. Basically she was almost continually pregnant for 7 years. She also home schooled the children so she never got a break. Her husband got them into a strict religious cult of the fire & brimstone type. It preached that the children's salvation was mostly dependant on the mother. Rusty shares some of the blame, IMO.

Her husband stated afterwards that she was in an almost trance like mood for weeks before the murders. I do think that she was insane at the time and believed that the children were better off without her as a mother, that she was sending them to heaven.

It's heartbreaking but I do have more sympathy for her than other mothers I have heard about, i.e. Susan Smith and the like.

I don't think she should EVER have any more children and perhaps should never get out of the mental hospital.

[SaraSidle]

She had 5 children in less than 7 years. Basically she was almost continually pregnant for 7 years. She also home schooled the children so she never got a break. Her husband got them into a strict religious cult of the fire & brimstone type. It preached that the children's salvation was mostly dependant on the mother. Rusty shares some of the blame, IMO.

Her husband stated afterwards that she was in an almost trance like mood for weeks before the murders. I do think that she was insane at the time and believed that the children were better off without her as a mother, that she was sending them to heaven.

It's heartbreaking but I do have more sympathy for her than other mothers I have heard about, i.e. Susan Smith and the like.

I don't think she should EVER have any more children and perhaps should never get out of the mental hospital.

Enlightenme I agree 100%

[LindaA]

The ability to plan does not qualify a person as being sane. I believe this woman was emotionally disturbed to the point of insanity and was not responsible for her acts.

If the ability to make plans makes one sane, the Hitler was the sanest person I ever heard of.

[Drumbum]

I believe she should die for her crimes. She is sane and she murdered her children.

[VeXis]

I do think to a certain degree she was "crazy" but regardless she was in complete knowledge of what she did and I believe she deserves to die. I was watching a documentary on this a while back and never even thought but her husbands mother was my english teacher back just a bit before this happened! I cant imagine the anger her husband is feeling. I dont know how he kept from killing her himself.

[SaraSidle]

I do think to a certain degree she was "crazy" but regardless she was in complete knowledge of what she did and I believe she deserves to die. I was watching a documentary on this a while back and never even thought but her husbands mother was my english teacher back just a bit before this happened! I cant imagine the anger her husband is feeling. I dont know how he kept from killing her himself.

Vexus and Drumbum, Andrea suffered severe post partum depression after each pregnancy. Her husband did nothing to help her except get her pregnant again. I do not have the sources for this at my fingertips but I worked with psychotics before and she was in a severe psychotic break. I have worked with a few mothers who have killed their babies for the same reason and they never get over the psychosis no matter what drugs are given to them. Yes it is tragic but it happens. imo

[Evening2]

Vexus and Drumbum, Andrea suffered severe post partum depression after each pregnancy. Her husband did nothing to help her except get her pregnant again. I do not have the sources for this at my fingertips but I worked with psychotics before and she was in a severe psychotic break. I have worked with a few mothers who have killed their babies for the same reason and they never get over the psychosis no matter what drugs are given to them. Yes it is tragic but it happens. imo

Sara, LindaA, and Enlightenme, your posts on this thread are excellent and I agree with all of you completely (in this particular case)!

[SaraSidle]

Sara, LindaA, and Enlightenme, your posts on this thread are excellent and I agree with all of you completely (in this particular case)!

Thanks Evening2 I appreciate that. Happy Friday to you.

[lodfafner]

Why does is matter if she was sane of not?

If she could do it once she can do it again.

[SaraSidle]

Why does is matter if she was sane of not?

If she could do it once she can do it again.

I think the point is she was originally sentenced to prison until the authorities figured out she had a psychotic breakdown per her in the hospital and put her on meds. She will need the meds for the rest of her life and will probably be in the hospital that long.

[VeXis]

I still think she should be put to death for what she did. This country has become WAY to PC and WAY to protective of murderers rights to the point that there isnt much of a deterrent to some people.

[SaraSidle]

I still think she should be put to death for what she did. This country has become WAY to PC and WAY to protective of murderers rights to the point that there isnt much of a deterrent to some people.

Good thing not everyone feels that way. Andrea had no control. She had an illness and she needs a hospital and medication. She was thinking very differently from the way you and I think. Mental illness does not get the death penalty. I am sorry you feel that way. IMO

[Serial Killer X]

Im not saying its justifiable but she actually believed that her kid's were going to Hell and by killing them she was saving them from Hell. It's a severe mental illness and i disagree about her getting the death penalty. She should be locked in a mental hospital for the rest of her day's. If she had killed the Kid's and she wasn't actually insane. Then the Death Penalty Would of been on the table in my opinion. Im not saying it's justifiable her killing her kid's because she believed that were going to hell. But she actually did believe that they were going to go to Hell, and the only way they could be saved is if she killed All 5 of them. I feel sorry for the People that think she should of gotten the Death Penalty . She wasn't of a sane mind when she commited these atrocity's she wasn't thinking like you and I.

First Post Yay!

[SaraSidle]

Im not saying its justifiable but she actually believed that her kid's were going to Hell and by killing them she was saving them from Hell. It's a severe mental illness and i disagree about her getting the death penalty. She should be locked in a mental hospital for the rest of her day's. If she had killed the Kid's and she wasn't actually insane. Then the Death Penalty Would of been on the table in my opinion. Im not saying it's justifiable her killing her kid's because she believed that were going to hell. But she actually did believe that they were going to go to Hell, and the only way they could be saved is if she killed All 5 of them. I feel sorry for the People that think she should of gotten the Death Penalty . She wasn't of a sane mind when she commited these atrocity's she wasn't thinking like you and I.

First Post Yay!

Excellent Post and welcome aboard!!!!!!

[Happy]

Good thing not everyone feels that way. Andrea had no control. She had an illness and she needs a hospital and medication. She was thinking very differently from the way you and I think. Mental illness does not get the death penalty. I am sorry you feel that way. IMO


Sara, great to see your intelligent posts again!!! Yes, she was psychotic. We have to have mercy for people like this. I think it is a myth that so many people "get away with murder." Just look at Texas and all the people being released from death row when new evidence was revealed. With DA's running for their office, it is just too politically advantagous for them to get a conviction.

[SaraSidle]

Sara, great to see your intelligent posts again!!! Yes, she was psychotic. We have to have mercy for people like this. I think it is a myth that so many people "get away with murder." Just look at Texas and all the people being released from death row when new evidence was revealed. With DA's running for their office, it is just too politically advantagous for them to get a conviction.

Good to see you posting again Happy. I thought we lost you!!! You make some excellent points that I have been wondering about lately

[Evening2]

Good to see you posting again Happy. I thought we lost you!!! You make some excellent points that I have been wondering about lately

Just a quick stop-over to welcome Happy and SeriakKillerX aboard. :patriot: I'm enjoying your opinions. I SO agree with what you've said regarding Andrea Yates.

[grneyes]

The ability to plan does not qualify a person as being sane. I believe this woman was emotionally disturbed to the point of insanity and was not responsible for her acts.

If the ability to make plans makes one sane, the Hitler was the sanest person I ever heard of.

I agree with Linda on this. Insane people can plan things and there is really no time limit on how long a psychotic break can last. This is one of the few cases of this sort where I actually do believe the parent was insane at the time.

[samanthajane13]

In Andrea Yates' case, she already had a TON of emotional baggage, had STOPPED TAKING HER PSYCH MEDS TO GET PREGNANT YET AGAIN, was living in a tiny tin-can of a trailer for years, then the stress of moving into a new home, little or no support by her husband in caring for the kids, her hubby also dictating that they were going to follow the teachings of a religious zealot...Think David Koresh, Charlie Manson, L. Ron Whack-Job, or Heaven's Gate...

WHO WOULDN'T CRACK UP????

I blame the HUBBY for putting Andrea AND the kids in that place where she had to be feeling like she couldn't cope.

You may not agree that hubby should be serving time, but you have to admit-it's a VERY distinct possiblity that without all those stressors, the babies would ALL be alive, and Andrea wouldn't have snapped."

And he controlled EVERYTHING-until the day she decied she couldn't do it any more. And then she picked a time when she knew nobody would be around to stop her. I don't really see it as being pre-meditated. She just knew her mom was coming over, and didn't want her to stop what she knew (in her sick mind) she had to do...

And I really don't see that a lot has changed in o'le Rusty's life, except that he no longer has Andrea or the first batch of babies.

Control freaks DO NOT change their ways of working.

I see him as being AT LEAST 50% responsible for BOTH of those facts. Andrea was a few cards short of a deck before she encountered him, and he KNEW he was in the driver's seat. I'm not saying she's completely innocent, but she was also NUTS!!!

A while back, there was a show-I believe on TruTV or A & E-that featured the Yates' case. It showed the step-by-step down-ward spiral of Andrea's mental health, precipitated by the closely spaced pregnancies, the post-partum depression escalating into psychosis, the move from the house to the trailer and then BACK AGAIN, the home-schooling of the kids, Rusty's lack of assistance with the family, the religious fanaticism...in other words...EVERYTHING that contributed to the murder of those precious babies.

Okay-here's part of the scoop on PPD.

When Katey was about 6 weeks old, I was VERY ILL. I got a RAGING Uppper Respiratory Infection...the worst I ever had before or since.

6 weeks earlier, I had delivered her in less than 3 hours, and 15 minutes later, I was sitting CROSS-LEGGED on my bed, making baby announcement calls.

I had NO IDEA how things could go from Heaven to Hell in 6 weeks...

I'm asthmatic, and I have a LOAD of allergies.

I was also breast-feeding Katey, so I still had all those LOVELY hormones raising hell in my body.

I was hospitalized for 10 days.

I was placed on MASSIVE doses prednisone (ANOTHER hormone) both orally and intervenously. In 10 days, I went from 110 pounds to 144 pounds-the same weight I was the day Katey was delivered. Steroids make you RAVENOUSLY HUNGRY, and when they wean you off of them, EVERY JOINT IN YOUR BODY SCREAMS IN PAIN!!!!

Because of the fact that I was on Predisone, I couldn't breast-feed Katey, and had to DUMP the milk down the toilet, and yet I kept pumping to keep my milk supply up, because Katey was VERY small-6 pounds and 4 oz. so she really NEEDED the breast milk. I was also "eating for two" because of the breast-feeding-you need extra nutrition to make all that milk... Every time I had to pump and dump, I cried like a baby.

I couldn't even see her except in the hospital cafeteria, because she was a small new-born, and they didn't want her on the medical floor with all the germs. I can't think of a BETTER reason to cry-can you???

Plus, I couldn't be with the rest of my family except for their visits. I can't think of ANY other time when a new mom needs her family and significant other MORE than when she's SICK and DEPRESSED!!!

But I spent most of my time crying alone in the hospital...

Can you say Post-Partum Depression??

Okay...having shared one of the bleakest times of my life, I can obviously say that I GOT PAST IT. I'm not writing these posts from the library at Elmira Prison. I didn't kill anyone-didn't even threaten harm to anyone.

But I can honestly say that I can understand how it can escalate. And I didn't go on to Post-Partum Psychosis...THANK GOD!!!!

I got off the steroids, Katey was able to nurse again-with a lot of persistance on my part and a lot of stubbornness on hers, I lost the extra weight, the depression ran it's course as my life got back to normal, and Jennifer is 29, and Katey is 19. Nobody died, but for a while, I REALLY WANTED TO...I hurt THAT BAD-physically AND emotionally.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that between the hormones-WHICH RAGE even during a normal pregnancy in a perfectly healthy woman-and the CIRCUMSTANCES IN HER FAMILY LIFE-are enough to send MANY women around the bend. Not to mention if she's sick...

I say the "man" should be hung...and it not, then he should be neutered so that he can't inflict his own brand of crazy on yet another (possibly also emotionally-fragile) soul.

NOBODY ELSE SHOULD SUFFER!!!

Nail him up by his *****.

[carrie222]

I dont think that anyone can possbily understand what she was going through. I trulely believe she had to have a mental health problem in order to do something like that to your children. i know from my own experences that postpartum depression is something to take seriously. I had my three daughters all within a year and a half time of each ohter. my youngest daughter is 5 months old and im having a hard dealing with certain emotions sometimes. i almost dont know how to feel not being prego. you have to deal with so many different changes in horomones and to do it back and forth so many times back and forth can make it harder. I am able to deal with it because of the support i get from my family and friends but without that i think i would be lost. So i can understand how without her husbands support how she could come to that breaking point although by any means to i believe that it was right.

[Serial Killer X]

I dont think that anyone can possbily understand what she was going through. I trulely believe she had to have a mental health problem in order to do something like that to your children. i know from my own experences that postpartum depression is something to take seriously. I had my three daughters all within a year and a half time of each ohter. my youngest daughter is 5 months old and im having a hard dealing with certain emotions sometimes. i almost dont know how to feel not being prego. you have to deal with so many different changes in horomones and to do it back and forth so many times back and forth can make it harder. I am able to deal with it because of the support i get from my family and friends but without that i think i would be lost. So i can understand how without her husbands support how she could come to that breaking point although by any means to i believe that it was right.

She Didn't Have A Normal Life Then Just Crack From All The Stress She Said A Mental illness And She Killed Her Kid's To "Save" Them.

SKX

[onalaska]

I do believe that her hubby should have to accept some responsibility, he knew she was ill, and still she cont. to have children. He has happily remarried and has another child. Andrea is bearing all the burden. It doesn't seem fair......he just went on his merry little way.

[SaraSidle]

I do believe that her hubby should have to accept some responsibility, he knew she was ill, and still she cont. to have children. He has happily remarried and has another child. Andrea is bearing all the burden. It doesn't seem fair......he just went on his merry little way.


ITA onalska

[The R]

Ms. Yates is mentioned in a book I have about serial and mass murderers; a required text in a class I'm taking.

Her being insane is pretty debatable IMO. For me the answer might hinge on just how long a person can stay in a psychotic state. She certainly appeared to suffer from post partum depression, but consider her actions.

She drowned all five of her kids - one at a time. After she systematically drowned her children she laid all of them (except the oldest) out on a bed, wrapped in sheets like burial cloths.

She drowned the younger ones first. Her oldest - seven - actually found her in the process of drowning the baby. She ordered him into the tub, but he ran. She caught him and brought him back to the tub for drowning.

Immediately after the killings, she called the police for assistance. She also called her husband at work telling him to come home, that she'd done something bad to the children.

I'm not sure you can suggest she didn't know right from wrong, but I'm certainly not the expert. I just believe there is room for doubt from what I've read.

ALLMO,
R

[Spanishlady]

I believe that her mental illness is what caused her to kill her children. Whether she was insane at the time, I don't know because I am not a psychologist, and I was not in her shoes. But she had to be mentally ill to commit such a hideous crime.

[Serial Killer X]

Immediately after the killings, she called the police for assistance. She also called her husband at work telling him to come home, that she'd done something bad to the children.

ALLMO,
R

Hey Mr R Yer That Would Of Been Horrible For Her 7 Year Old And Yeah I Think She Was Quite Insane And The Husband Should Take Some Responsiblity.

SKX

[The R]

Hey Mr R Yer That Would Of Been Horrible For Her 7 Year Old And Yeah I Think She Was Quite Insane And The Husband Should Take Some Responsiblity.

SKX

OK Mr/Ms SKX!

But do you think she knew right from wrong? According to Texas law, in order to be found not guilty by reason of insanity, you must show in court that she didn't know right from wrong. Do her actions show that?

Not in my opinion.

Maybe the hubby should shoulder some responsibility, maybe also the doctor that took her off the anti-psychotic drug (shortly before the killings) should too.....and of course let's not forget that goofball evangelist that preached to them his message of responsibility through propogation of the world.

ALLMO,
R

[SaraSidle]

OK Mr/Ms SKX!

But do you think she knew right from wrong? According to Texas law, in order to be found not guilty by reason of insanity, you must show in court that she didn't know right from wrong. Do her actions show that?

Not in my opinion.

Maybe the hubby should shoulder some responsibility, maybe also the doctor that took her off the anti-psychotic drug (shortly before the killings) should too.....and of course let's not forget that goofball evangelist that preached to them his message of responsibility through propogation of the world.

ALLMO,
R


Actually R at the time of the murders I do not believe she knew the difference. She was too psychotic. I have worked with mothers who
kill their children from post partum depression. I have never seen them get better no matter how many psychtropic medications they are on because of their actions. She was sick very sick and her husband and doctor let her down. The only place for her right now is the mental hospital for help. Psychotic thinking is so different. It is very difficult for mentally healthy people to understand. Research has shown it has a lot to do with the nerve synapses in the brain shooting off in chaos. Sorry this is so long. IMO

[Serial Killer X]

OK Mr/Ms SKX!

But do you think she knew right from wrong? According to Texas law, in order to be found not guilty by reason of insanity, you must show in court that she didn't know right from wrong. Do her actions show that?

Not in my opinion.

Maybe the hubby should shoulder some responsibility, maybe also the doctor that took her off the anti-psychotic drug (shortly before the killings) should too.....and of course let's not forget that goofball evangelist that preached to them his message of responsibility through propogation of the world.

ALLMO,
R

Lol It's Mr SKX Thank You ;) But Your Missing The Point Here Mrs R I Do Believe She Was Insane And She Didn't Know Right From Wrong. He Should Take Some Responsibility And So Should The Doctor.

SKX

[Serial Killer X]

Actually R at the time of the murders I do not believe she knew the difference. She was too psychotic. I have worked with mothers who
kill their children from post partum depression. I have never seen them get better no matter how many psychtropic medications they are on because of their actions. She was sick very sick and her husband and doctor let her down. The only place for her right now is the mental hospital for help. Psychotic thinking is so different. It is very difficult for mentally healthy people to understand. Research has shown it has a lot to do with the nerve synapses in the brain shooting off in chaos. Sorry this is so long. IMO

Yer I Agree Sara She Didn't Know Right From Wrong And She Belong's In A Mental Hospitla Not On Death Row As Many People Have Said Before.

SKX

[The R]

Lol It's Mr SKX Thank You ;) But Your Missing The Point Here Mrs R I Do Believe She Was Insane And She Didn't Know Right From Wrong. He Should Take Some Responsibility And So Should The Doctor.

SKX


LOL is right Mr SKX...(BTW no need for the childish disrespect - I didn't know your gender but you'd been calling me Mr R and I thought I'd return the favor)............I'm not sure who it is that's actually missing the point however. It is true Yates was found legally insane on appeal. She was in prison prior to the appeal however because the court found she DID know right from wrong to begin with. Only after a witness recanted testimony in the appeal hearing did the court move her to a mental facility. What's important in the issue is not how you or I feel; that won't make her be in a prison or hospital, but whether or not the court found her not guilty by reason of insanity.

That's my point SKX....not really hard to understand. :)

Mr R

[onalaska]

I too think she knew what she was doing. She planned it out. But important people in her life, that knew she was having a big problem, let her down. I think there is enough blame to go around. ( IMO of course )

[Serial Killer X]

LOL is right Mr SKX...(BTW no need for the childish disrespect - I didn't know your gender but you'd been calling me Mr R and I thought I'd return the favor)............I'm not sure who it is that's actually missing the point however. It is true Yates was found legally insane on appeal. She was in prison prior to the appeal however because the court found she DID know right from wrong to begin with. Only after a witness recanted testimony in the appeal hearing did the court move her to a mental facility. What's important in the issue is not how you or I feel; that won't make her be in a prison or hospital, but whether or not the court found her not guilty by reason of insanity.

That's my point SKX....not really hard to understand. :)

Mr R

Lol Childish Disrespect Ay :O Im Male Like It Say's On My Profile Lol I Call You Mr R Cause I Like That Name. Yer You Make A Good Point But How Did They Determine That She Did Know Right From Wrong? Awwww I Thought It Was Jks But Yeah I Get What Your Saying Mr R. Yer I Know What Your Mean Im Just Trying To Determine How The Court Knew That Amanda Yate's Knew Right From Wrong.

SKX

[Serial Killer X]

I too think she knew what she was doing. She planned it out. But important people in her life, that knew she was having a big problem, let her down. I think there is enough blame to go around. ( IMO of course )

Yer That's True But She Thought By Killing Them She Was Saving Them From Satan And Hell. Yer That's True They Did Let Her Down But She Was The One That Drowned Them Not Her Husband Or Docter. I Mean Wouldn't You Think She Was Insane?

SKX

[Lodi]

Actually R at the time of the murders I do not believe she knew the difference. She was too psychotic. I have worked with mothers who
kill their children from post partum depression. I have never seen them get better no matter how many psychtropic medications they are on because of their actions. She was sick very sick and her husband and doctor let her down. The only place for her right now is the mental hospital for help. Psychotic thinking is so different. It is very difficult for mentally healthy people to understand. Research has shown it has a lot to do with the nerve synapses in the brain shooting off in chaos. Sorry this is so long. IMO

I agree with your thoughts concerning Andrea Yates. I have an aunt that became psychotic about 40 years ago after having children. She is not dangerous but she has extremely strange ways about her. She is a blend of high intelligence and craziness. She raised her kids somehow and she and her family have managed to cope.

[SaraSidle]

I agree with your thoughts concerning Andrea Yates. I have an aunt that became psychotic about 40 years ago after having children. She is not dangerous but she has extremely strange ways about her. She is a blend of high intelligence and craziness. She raised her kids somehow and she and her family have managed to cope.


that is wonderful Lodi. I am so happy for you and your family.

I truly think Andrea would have been a good mother if she had received meds,counseling and slowed down on giving birth. Post partum psychosis is not dealt with very well even today. IMO

[Serial Killer X]

that is wonderful Lodi. I am so happy for you and your family.

I truly think Andrea would have been a good mother if she had received meds,counseling and slowed down on giving birth. Post partum psychosis is not dealt with very well even today. IMO

Yer I Agree With You Sara She Just Couldn't Handle It.

SKX

[Angie65]

Yes, she was insane, and the system completely failed her, as it has and will many others.
She ask for help over and over and they wouldn't give it to her. They limited the amount of time she could stay in mental health centers. Her husband could see she needed help and wasn't herself. Her chemical imbalance from having so many kids so fast mixed with an underlying mental condition that was surfacing,she just snapped.
No mother would kill their children under normal circumstances.
I personally feel that anyone that can take another human life has to be some what crazy to begin with because it's not normal to kill a person.

[ace99420]

I have a boyfriend who was recently diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. I have attended meetings with him and in the group discussions there are varying degrees involved with most mental illnesses. I am sure there were tell tale signs that family and husband could have noticed and possibly communicated to her. I see that lots of peoples lives become mechanical and sometimes the hardest thing is to get others to listen.

[SaraSidle]

You are right Ace. Lots of family and friends are in denial or fear the shame connected with mental illness which should not exist of course. IMO

[Angie65]

I think crime and children lost in the system could be prevented if they would over haul the mental health units. Just look at the woman in the ER waiting area of a metal health hospital that fell over and was left to die!! That was awful!! I have BiPolar and have been treated and do fiine, my 15 year old is not so lucky with hers it takes a while to get chemicals under control with the right meds, plus she is ADHD as well, and her own hormones out of wack as all teens do.
All 3 of my children and myself suffer from severe depression, it runs in the family, my father was always very depressed and he died of cancer at the young age of 57.
But we recognize these issues and treat them, a lot of families won't, they won't face the facts and don't like medication.
I grew up with nurses as parents and I worked in a pharmacy, now my oldest daughter is in med school. So we have no problems dealing with these kind of issues.
But when when people do try to get help and the system only allows them a certain amount of stays and then sends them out. They should be partly responsible for what happen to the Gates children.

[SaraSidle]

I think crime and children lost in the system could be prevented if they would over haul the mental health units. Just look at the woman in the ER waiting area of a metal health hospital that fell over and was left to die!! That was awful!! I have BiPolar and have been treated and do fiine, my 15 year old is not so lucky with hers it takes a while to get chemicals under control with the right meds, plus she is ADHD as well, and her own hormones out of wack as all teens do.
All 3 of my children and myself suffer from severe depression, it runs in the family, my father was always very depressed and he died of cancer at the young age of 57.
But we recognize these issues and treat them, a lot of families won't, they won't face the facts and don't like medication.
I grew up with nurses as parents and I worked in a pharmacy, now my oldest daughter is in med school. So we have no problems dealing with these kind of issues.
But when when people do try to get help and the system only allows them a certain amount of stays and then sends them out. They should be partly responsible for what happen to the Gates children.

Angie I so agree with you. I worked in a public Mental Health system for 15 years. There were very few resources financially and personnel. I was supposed to interact with clients but most of my time was put into doing paperwork for the governement for funding. I do not believe it has changed at all. We have so many problems with physical and mental health,lack of funding,lack of personnel, poorly paid personnel, poor insurance, hmo's,etc etc. IMO

[Angie1960]

I agree - she was insane. I feel badly for her and those poor children - the mental health (well the whole damn health care) industry is a sham!

[Leanne Weich]

Im not saying its justifiable but she actually believed that her kid's were going to Hell and by killing them she was saving them from Hell. It's a severe mental illness and i disagree about her getting the death penalty. She should be locked in a mental hospital for the rest of her day's. If she had killed the Kid's and she wasn't actually insane. Then the Death Penalty Would of been on the table in my opinion. Im not saying it's justifiable her killing her kid's because she believed that were going to hell. But she actually did believe that they were going to go to Hell, and the only way they could be saved is if she killed All 5 of them. I feel sorry for the People that think she should of gotten the Death Penalty . She wasn't of a sane mind when she commited these atrocity's she wasn't thinking like you and I.

First Post Yay!

My first post too. ITA with you. I still think it's a damn shame that Rusty wasn't prosecuted as well. Had he followed the psychiatrist's instructions and not left Andrea alone for the 60 mins (I think that was the time period) that morning before his mom arrived to "babysit" Andrea, this all could have been avoided. In fact, imo, had he not continued to impregnate her after being warned it was not in Andrea's interests, this could probably have been avoided too. Now he is remarried and has had a child with his new wife I believe and life carries on for him as normal. It makes me :flamemad:.

[Adalena935]

I think she did have a mental illness but I still believe she knew right from wrong and what she was doing. I believe that's what the evidence shows. I think she was depressed and wanted the state to kill her because that's what she told the detective her motive was. I read her online medical records and I don't think she was a nice person at all. The medical personel indicated that in her medical records. I think they threw up their hands and cut her lose because she was uncooperative in her own medical care and her records show she was deliberately stubborn and abusive to the medical professionals who were trying to help her. I think she's evil. There is no such thing as the perfectly balanced human mind. Everybody's nuts, just a matter of degree. She had a lifelong problem with depression.

She was roman catholic which forbids the killing of one's self. I think she finally hit on the idea of forcing the state to execute her to try to trick God. By committing a crime so bad, so horrendous it would force the state to kill her. To her mind I believe then she would be absolved in God's eyes of the killing of herself. I think that because that's what she told law enforcement in her confession following her crimes. She told them she wanted the state to kill her. She confessed she understood the punishment for her home state of Texas was execution for murder. To her mind at the time she insured they would have no choice but to put her to death. She confessed that was her motive.

She knows that in the christian faith you can commit any crime, even murder and still beg forgiveness and still be saved to go to heaven. And that was her plan by all she told about her motive. I also think she was sending a message to her husband; "THIS - is what I think of you." She is covert/diabolical.

Having a mental illness doesn't automatically qualify a person for Sainthood. She is pure evil. She is the one who told on herself. NO skin off my nose whatever the state decided to do with her. But I know evil by it's acts. If she doesn't qualify, no one would. One day she will stand before God Almighty and give an accounting of herself.

As time passed I think she had a change of heart about herself. Still, she's rid of rusty and the life she loathed but lacked will to extract herself from as reasonable person's would. Taken care of now, forever. A sigh of relief to her. I don't believe she's at all unhappy now. Mission accomplished to her babyish mind. Her acts were that of a toddler in tantrum.

[kelsy1901]

I think Andrea was definately very sane!! One after the other she drowned all those children......you can not tell me the struggle, the cries from those children fell on deaf ears.

[audpaud]

Yates mental illness was well documented - so much so that Hang 'Em High Texas finally relented.

(Not even gonna mention the further proof of her mental illness was being married to Ole Rusty in a freakin' BUS with all those kids!:cuss: *Oooops - already did!;))

I'm ok with her being declared insane and treated - it's obvious she's in her own hell.

The "devoted husband" and "loving father" is remarried and moved on with his life (altho' not involved with the Whacked Church and NOT living in a BUS anymore.) ITA with those that feel he shares some blame - especially because I just don'tget the vibe that he is suffering like I get with Andrea.

The vibe I always got from him was some kind of smarmy, televangelist yuckiness . . . ya know? HE creeped me out way more than she did.:eek:

[Notknowingall]

Yates mental illness was well documented - so much so that Hang 'Em High Texas finally relented.

(Not even gonna mention the further proof of her mental illness was being married to Ole Rusty in a freakin' BUS with all those kids!:cuss: *Oooops - already did!;))

I'm ok with her being declared insane and treated - it's obvious she's in her own hell.

The "devoted husband" and "loving father" is remarried and moved on with his life (altho' not involved with the Whacked Church and NOT living in a BUS anymore.) ITA with those that feel he shares some blame - especially because I just don'tget the vibe that he is suffering like I get with Andrea.

The vibe I always got from him was some kind of smarmy, televangelist yuckiness . . . ya know? HE creeped me out way more than she did.:eek:

I completely agree. IMO he was real quick to start pointing fingers at the mental health providers she had seen. He never seemed to want to acknowledged HIS role in her condition. HE is the one that insisted on having as many kids as they could. HE is the one that was have them attend the church they attended. HE could have insisted on more care for Andrea. HE is the one that left her alone in her "zombie" state that day. With her history ; for him to say that he had no indication that something was wrong that day does not fly with me. It is just a shame that about the only thing he could have been charged with is child endangerment and even that would have been a stretch.

[samanthajane13]

"You are right Ace. Lots of family and friends are in denial or fear the shame connected with mental illness which should not exist of course. IMO"

Until mental health issues have a "poster-celebrity", people will continue to think of it as a weakness...

For a while, Brooke Shields was looking like she may be the poster celebrity for Post Partum Depression, then Tom (I kiss L. Ron Whack-job's butt) Cruise had to throw in HIS two cents about psychiatry, and it all fell to Hell. Look what Chris Reeves did for spinal injuries, and Michael J. Fox did for Parkinson's Disease.

The stigma has to be removed before people will recognize that the people suffering form these disorders are no more in control of their lives than cancer victims are in control of getting most cancers.

Mental health problems are-for the most part, CHEMICAL DISORDERS with GENETIC PRE-DISPOSITIONS. Like Diabetes. Are diabetics responsible for the DNA or pancreas/insulin imbalance that pre-disposes them to their disease?? HELL NO!!!

I suffer from anxiety attacks and severe depression, and I've had this arguement with my grand-father many times...

He'd ask why I'm not working, and I'd tell him that I've been diagnosed with depression and anxiety to the point where I had problems eating, sleeping, dealing with people...even leaving my house. I told him I wouldn't wish my mental health problems on my worst enemy.

He'd counter with "Well, GET UN-DEPRESSED!" I tried to explain that is was similar to diabetes-both being chemical imbalances, but that went over like a lead balloon. And telling him it was likely hereditary was even worse...he said "Well, I'm not depressed...so how can YOU be?"

He asked me what the heck I did to myself to get this way, and I asked him what HE did to get Prostate cancer.

It finally hit home for him when he had a stroke and lost the use of the right side of his body. He's in a Skilled Nursing Facility, can't walk, can't read anymore )which was one of his greatest joys) because the colt lays against his optic nerve, can't live in his condo, can't eat the foods he loves because the stroke partially paralysed his throat muscles...and HE was FINALLY diagnosed with depression...and apologized.

I think that the only way most people understand it to "walk a mile in another's shoes..."

[debbyuk2008]

Without a question she was insane. It was a pity all this wasn't picked up earlier by her psychiatrist - Someone that is mentally ill does not turn like that overnight. So therefore, there must have been signs.

Home schooling would have been the worst option for someone as ill as that. Again, didn't anyone pick up on that?!

Although I do believe her insanity please...the worry is too many other mothers can use this as an excuse to kill.
I often worry about our (in England) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide_Act
infanticide law.
I wonder how many cases are genuine?

[SaraSidle]

Without a question she was insane. It was a pity all this wasn't picked up earlier by her psychiatrist - Someone that is mentally ill does not turn like that overnight. So therefore, there must have been signs.

Home schooling would have been the worst option for someone as ill as that. Again, didn't anyone pick up on that?!

Although I do believe her insanity please...the worry is too many other mothers can use this as an excuse to kill.
I often worry about our (in England) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide_Act
infanticide law.
I wonder how many cases are genuine?

I also hold her husband responsible because he knew what was happening and continued having babies........IMO

[debbyuk2008]

ITA Sara about the husband - The worst thing you can do with someone suffering from post natal depression/psychosis is to put them through pregnancy again.
I must read up on this....but didn't any relative see the warning signs?

[cta2rlm]

I live in Kerrville, TX where she and Dana Laney are housed at the State Hospital. The woman is insane and can never recover. When she starts to get stable she realizes what she has done and starts pulling out her hair and screams to no end. When she is not on her medications and stable she is in a catatonic state. Andrea since being moved to KSH has not been able to leave the grounds. Dana Laney on the other hand has been able to leave the grounds with supervision and I have not heard of her acting the way Andrea does and she stoned her kids, leaving one of them badly disabled.

[cta2rlm]

No, I don't think she was insane. I think she knew exactly what she was doing. The fact that some of those children had to have struggled against her should have been enough to snap her out of it and made her stop, but she didn't. She systematically drowned each one of them.
If they wanted to find her insane, fine. But as soon as she was deemed sane, she would have been sent to prison to serve her sentence. I also feel her husband had some responsibilty too. He was told, no more babies until your wife is stable mentally. Either he uses protection or she get's her tubes tide, if she suffered from post partum depression after each baby. I don't think it was with each baby though, I think it was after she had the second to the last baby the doctor told her husband she shouldn't have any more kids.
Didn't he get remarried? Did him and his new wife have kids and if so, how many?
Look at how many mom's are now coping what Andrea Yates had done? They kill their children, call their husband's and/or 911 to tell them they just drowned their children. How many of them are now using the post partum depression, thinking that they will get a month's rest in a cushy psych ward?
Andrea was allowed to go on outings; movies, shopping and so on. Her poor babies sure weren't having a good time.
None of them will grow up, finish school, go on dates, go to college, get married or have children of their own. I don't believe Yates was punished enough at all. A few years in prison, a month in the psych ward and she's cured? I don't think so. She certainly put the weight on while in prison.
I'm sure she felt over whelmed, but didn't she have family and/or friends she could have called before she murdered them?
IMO, murder is murder. We have plenty of people in prisons who suffer from some form psychosis or another.

I am not condoning what Andrea Yates did, but she has not been allowed on outings, that is Dana Laney who stoned her kids. Andrea Yates will probably live the remaining of her days at KSH.

[cta2rlm]

www.karisable.com/andreayates.htm

Here is a link about the religion Rusty and Andrea followed. She was raised Catholic, but when she killed her children she was not a practicing Catholic.

[debbyuk2008]

I think crime and children lost in the system could be prevented if they would over haul the mental health units. Just look at the woman in the ER waiting area of a metal health hospital that fell over and was left to die!! That was awful!! I have BiPolar and have been treated and do fiine, my 15 year old is not so lucky with hers it takes a while to get chemicals under control with the right meds, plus she is ADHD as well, and her own hormones out of wack as all teens do.
All 3 of my children and myself suffer from severe depression, it runs in the family, my father was always very depressed and he died of cancer at the young age of 57.
But we recognize these issues and treat them, a lot of families won't, they won't face the facts and don't like medication.
I grew up with nurses as parents and I worked in a pharmacy, now my oldest daughter is in med school. So we have no problems dealing with these kind of issues.
But when when people do try to get help and the system only allows them a certain amount of stays and then sends them out. They should be partly responsible for what happen to the Gates children.

Angie I totally agree with you. We have similar problems in the UK with mental illness. If you are physically sick its considered an illness. You get the impression mental illness is considered debatable.
The problem is distinguishing genuine illness from "I don't fancy the death penalty" syndrome.

Without a doubt Andrea Yates was ill. I think the tragedy was that people didn't pick up the warning signs.
Having children can be stressful.
I am on my own with three daughters. My eldest has bulimia and believe me I do find life hard.
Unfortunately, being mothers we try our best to cope when we are hurting on the inside. We feel we must be perfect.
Its a shame that Andrea's family didn't pick up how seriously ill she was.