Calling All Profilers & Crime Investigators

[LetsBeConcerned]

Calling All Profilers~!!!… Whether you’re a professional, amateur or just like it as a hobby~!!!!

We would like your help~!! I have posted copies of 2 postcards that I would like for you to look at. These postcards were sent to the local paper when Renee Fox was missing.

To some… It may look like a childish prank… Yet it is unlikely that a “child” would know much about “Elliot Ness”

All opinions would be appreciated.

There are so many clues in these creepy postcards, which is understating a lot~!!

I would like to know what kind of underlying messages that they were trying to send as well as what type of person would send those things~!!!

The 2 postcards can be seen here…
http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=9038604&postcount=468

[slynn14]

Calling All Profilers~!!!… Whether you’re a professional, amateur or just like it as a hobby~!!!!

We would like your help~!! I have posted copies of 2 postcards that I would like for you to look at. These postcards were sent to the local paper when Renee Fox was missing.

To some… It may look like a childish prank… Yet it is unlikely that a “child” would know much about “Elliot Ness”

All opinions would be appreciated.

There are so many clues in these creepy postcards, which is understating a lot~!!

I would like to know what kind of underlying messages that they were trying to send as well as what type of person would send those things~!!!

The 2 postcards can be seen here…
http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=9038604&postcount=468


I only saw the front of card??
I don't know much about this case, and I am not a profiler or professional but maybe whomever sent the postcard is trying to copycat another type of crime that happen in the past, wasn't that The Zodiac killer.
It's obvious the person took the time make the card and put certain things taped to the card, and was the card all hand-made or is it an old postcard they used?
I could go on and on, but this is my two cents.

slynn

[Jo_Momma_82]

Front of first postcard.......
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/jo_momma_82/postcardfrontrenee1.jpg

Heres the back of the first postcard ........
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/jo_momma_82/postcardbackrenee11.jpg

[Jo_Momma_82]

here's the front of the 2nd postcard....
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/jo_momma_82/Postcard2Front2.jpg

back of 2nd postcard.......
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/jo_momma_82/Postcard2back22.jpg

[LetsBeConcerned]

I only saw the front of card??
I don't know much about this case, and I am not a profiler or professional but maybe whomever sent the postcard is trying to copycat another type of crime that happen in the past, wasn't that The Zodiac killer.
It's obvious the person took the time make the card and put certain things taped to the card, and was the card all hand-made or is it an old postcard they used?
I could go on and on, but this is my two cents.

slynn


Thank you, Both, Slynn & Jo Mama for your posts~!!

The first postcard is of the Laws Museum. I don’t know if postcard was a recent purchase, before it was sent. The Laws museum is an old Railroad station. Of the Carson & Colorado Company. Even though the museum is tens of miles from where Renee’s body was found… I think that if (some of it has rotted away over the years)the railroad line still existed… it would take you right near where her body was found on Mazourka Canyon Road.

Here is a link to the Laws Museum
http://www.lawsmuseum.org/story_of_laws.htm

Here is al link to a brochure of Mazourka Canyon Road.
http://www.blm.gov/ca/pdfs/bishop_pdfs/suv/route8.pdf

Here are links about the Zodiac Killer
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/zodiac/river_1.html
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/profiling/geographic/1.html

When it comes to “copy cats” there are also other crimes that need to be looked at… Including Charles Manson and his followers… They had a base camp in Inyo, when they were captured… they were taken to the Courthouse in Independence another place where Renee was seen. Renee was seen sitting on the steps leading to the courthouse prior to driving up Mazourka Canyon Road.

It is believed that ever since the Manson Family were there in Inyo County… that people of the occult have been attracted to the area. Living as nomads and rarely seen.

There are so many angles that need to be looked at~!!!

Renee’s nude body was found within weeks of the postcards being sent. Her arms were crossed. Which, suggests to many, that she was placed there.

Yet the Inyo County Authorities have NEVER looked at Renee’s disappearance as a crime.

It has been the gracious people that are on the Internet that has been most helpful.

You’re more than welcome to go on and on and on and on…. I know that there are many of us that could…

Jo Mama,
Thanks for posting the postcards here and congratulations on your baby girl~!!

[SimplySue]

Thank you, Both, Slynn & Jo Mama for your posts~!!

The first postcard is of the Laws Museum. I don’t know if postcard was a recent purchase, before it was sent. The Laws museum is an old Railroad station. Of the Carson & Colorado Company. Even though the museum is tens of miles from where Renee’s body was found… I think that if (some of it has rotted away over the years)the railroad line still existed… it would take you right near where her body was found on Mazourka Canyon Road.

Here is a link to the Laws Museum
http://www.lawsmuseum.org/story_of_laws.htm

Here is al link to a brochure of Mazourka Canyon Road.
http://www.blm.gov/ca/pdfs/bishop_pdfs/suv/route8.pdf

Here are links about the Zodiac Killer
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/zodiac/river_1.html
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/profiling/geographic/1.html

When it comes to “copy cats” there are also other crimes that need to be looked at… Including Charles Manson and his followers… They had a base camp in Inyo, when they were captured… they were taken to the Courthouse in Independence another place where Renee was seen. Renee was seen sitting on the steps leading to the courthouse prior to driving up Mazourka Canyon Road.

It is believed that ever since the Manson Family were there in Inyo County… that people of the occult have been attracted to the area. Living as nomads and rarely seen.

There are so many angles that need to be looked at~!!!

Renee’s nude body was found within weeks of the postcards being sent. Her arms were crossed. Which, suggests to many, that she was placed there.

Yet the Inyo County Authorities have NEVER looked at Renee’s disappearance as a crime.

It has been the gracious people that are on the Internet that has been most helpful.

You’re more than welcome to go on and on and on and on…. I know that there are many of us that could…

Jo Mama,
Thanks for posting the postcards here and congratulations on your baby girl~!!

This will be fun trying to figure this out! Thnx for the mystery and the clues. Oh yes, and CONGRATS! on the new baby.:o

[Bluefox]

Can you update me on who Renee is please, when did she disappear, how long till she was found, and when exactly each postcard was recieved?
thank you.

Am i to understand that on the first card, someone has forged the good name of Elliot Ness? Strange indeed! if so.

Looking at the second card, it's definitely not too old, as it has the modern bar code. There's not a single reason i can think of that someone would use Elliot's name at all hmmmmmmmmmm food for thought. Even so there are ways to trace the cards i'm sure.

Someone is playing a game, seeking attention? For what i wonder, and how will it end. Not a child, the writing is adult, and with some education.

[Jo_Momma_82]

I think that the first postcard definitely shows that whoever sent this had to know where Renee was and probably had something to do with it. Considering the items found nearby were pasted on the postcard. I think it's also a taunt but, I don't understand the "elusive" batboy reference or Elliot Ness..... Maybe their a reference to this person thinking that he's just as "untouchable" as Elliot Ness and as elusive as batboy.

[LetsBeConcerned]

This will be fun trying to figure this out! Thnx for the mystery and the clues. .:o

Enjoy yourself… and let me know what you come up with~!!!

I will answer the rest of these post later this weekend…
:seeya:

[AlsoKnownAs]

The first thing I did, is check the phone number on the second card. It's a Residential number 'Available' in Tombstone AZ. I have been frustrated (to get started) waiting for the 'Background' check processing. AKA :punch:
https://www.intelius.com/purchase.php

I found the differences in the handwriting (same writer) from one card to the next interesting. I'm not sure what it reveals. Seems like someone whom traveled around. Cards from Bakersfield, remarks about Bishop. Knew facts of the murder scene & knows about 'Available' numbers in Tombstone AZ. Is there a reverse way to check for available numbers?

Besides the cards, is there a link about any of the information known about the case, or articles that tell us as much as they will reveal to us. Thanks, AKA

[LetsBeConcerned]

Can you update me on who Renee is please, when did she disappear, how long till she was found, and when exactly each postcard was recieved?
thank you.

Am i to understand that on the first card, someone has forged the good name of Elliot Ness? Strange indeed! if so.

Looking at the second card, it's definitely not too old, as it has the modern bar code. There's not a single reason i can think of that someone would use Elliot's name at all hmmmmmmmmmm food for thought. Even so there are ways to trace the cards i'm sure.

Someone is playing a game, seeking attention? For what i wonder, and how will it end. Not a child, the writing is adult, and with some education.



A very insightful & observant post~!!!

Renee was 25… a mother who had put herself through college and graduated within 2 weeks before her disappearance. Renee loved being a mom and was enrolled at the University of Northridge to continue her education… Renee was last seen on Saturday, June 24, 2006 in Mazourka Canyon.
Renee was trying walk back to town after her car broke down. Passersby had given her bottles of water and would later report her to the rangers since it was 110 degrees that day and not very safe for someone to walk those 8 miles that seemed to be unprepared for the elements. The Rangers said they would call the sheriffs.

This scenario would repeat itself, as more passersby would give Renee water and then stop at the ranger’s station. The ranger station is located right off of Mazourka as well as the county jail where the sheriff’s would be. These groups were not associated with each other, and these scenarios may slightly change as maybe some of these groups would have talked to a sheriff directly… … I just want to make the point that these were good Samaritans that were concerned for their fellow man/woman…

The really sad part is that, not the sheriff’s, not the rangers, went up Mazourka Canyon to check on Renee on June 24.

On June 25, other passersby had found Renee’s purse with $900 inside and turned it into the sheriff’s… It was at that point, that the sheriff’s actually went up there. The sheriff’s would then find Renee’s hat and barrette that she was wearing. A shirt was also found, but it has never been mentioned if this shirt was something that she was wearing… so we always assumed that it was something that she had carried with her. I have yet to track down a clear description of this shirt found in the road, just a description of what she was wearing when she was last seen.

The sheriff’s would then claim that Renee had hitch a ride out… and that these items that were found would have blown out of the back of a pickup… If this ride was so friendly, wouldn’t she be aloud to keep those things with her~?

Renee’s car would be found miles further up into the canyon and on a side road.

There are other items that Renee was seen carrying that have never been found or published in the media… I am not aloud to say what those items are, just that they would stand out if found in the middle of the desert.

But I would like to mention that NO shoes or NO sandals were found~!!!

The first postcard was received by the newspaper Friday, July 28, 2006 (34 days later after Renee was seen alive)

The second postcard was received by the newspaper about Aug. 3, 2006 (40 days later)

Renee’s nude body was found on Mazourka Canyon Road and miles closer to town than were she was last seen on the same road. On August 10, 2006 (47 days)

I got the postcard by a third party and can only go on the postmark date…

But why refer to Chloride ARIZONA~!!! Why not refer to Chloride California~!!! :shrug: After all…Chloride CA is in the same county~!!!! Were they trying to throw us off track by going out of the state~???

I definitely agree that Mr. Ness’s named was forged~!!! Or if he was named after him why not give a good address~???

Definite food for thought~!!! Especially when you look at Elliot’s backround~!!!

How educated do you think this person is … How old… or maybe a movie or history buff~???:read:

[LetsBeConcerned]

I think that the first postcard definitely shows that whoever sent this had to know where Renee was and probably had something to do with it. Considering the items found nearby were pasted on the postcard. I think it's also a taunt but, I don't understand the "elusive" batboy reference or Elliot Ness..... Maybe their a reference to this person thinking that he's just as "untouchable" as Elliot Ness and as elusive as batboy.


I by no means want to argue those statements but have to question the word “nearby” That information(posted) is second to third hand (I do respect the person that posted it)… I do want clear up this misunderstanding…if the original source is of the search on Saturday, July 29, 2006… I do believe that those items would have been found… But that search was on Highway 395 near Manzanar Reward Road…Renee was last seen in Mazourka Canyon (2 different roads)… I am not sure where those items were found.(but believe it was on 395) which is very likely to be as far as 20 miles from where Renee was last seen~!!!!! Which makes “nearby” a relative term.

Another thing is… It was “the authorities” that forbade these searchers from searching Mazourka Canyon… What were they afraid of that these searchers were going to find~!!!

I also want to add that I don’t think that anyone on the search was aware of the postcard that was sent to the newspaper, which was only the day before. I seem to recall that even their cell phones were out of area/service…not getting any reception…since the area is so remote.

Something else, that I would like to add, …. Those that were on the search were looking for anything as small as an earring~!! Anything that might be personal and belonging to Renee~!!! And yet something so impersonal as a water bottle…

YET~!!!! Here they were …on a MAIN Highway… with cars & trucks speeding by with only 2 lanes…while they are searching the shoulder…and all they found were empty bottles/cans of alcohol and maybe empty bags of chips… but they were looking for WATER BOTTLES~!!!! Renee was given water bottles~!!!

I am sure that it had to be unnerving to be so close to these moving vehicles going at least 65mph and thinking that some of those driving by may be under the influence. Then to go home and later find out about the postcard, would only be more disturbing~!!!

You are on the right track with “The Untouchables”…I was also told to watch the movie “Missing”… I heard that it mentions Chloride Az:)

[Bluefox]

(Being in Scotland, some of the clues are difficult for me to understand, i.e. your phone system etc)

However, there has to be some importance given to it, otherwise why put it there? I hope you guys come up with something there.

Renee was walking, a few people passed by, giving water, i'm sure they all offered her
a ride, we may take it for granted she refused, and was enjoying the walk even though
it was very hot. Someone i think, came along and didn't allow her to refuse. Some personal belongings found in the road, the other belongings still in the perps vehicle perhaps? especially as it sounds like there was a struggle, and this guy would be in a
hurry to get away, off the road, before other drivers chanced on it.

The only thing i can come up with for the use of Elliot Ness's name: does he work in law? or does he study them, to minimise his mistakes and forensics? does he see himself in the same light? self importance comes to mind, but does he
get recognised the way he wants to be? He's having a laugh being mysterious.

Are there any other crimes that can be connected to the same MO? (The Q's are driving me nuts)

Definitely a movie buff, old movies maybe?

quote: bishop is a wonderful 'small' town, why not just say wonderful town? Could it
be wonderful to him, because he's gotten away with more crimes there? ( not sure of the
geography here either, so bear with me)

cordialy, elliot ness: how many people use that word these days? usually reserved for
invitations etc. Does this suggest he's an older guy, (late child of elderly parents) late 30's upwards, he doesn't need money, he left $900 behind. Pretty well educated, middle class. So robbing was never the intent, he would have grabbed the cash first, he knew what he wanted, so pre-meditated? not his first crime? It's like i can almost see him rubbing his hands together, wonderful town, gleeful, he got away with it, so now he's taunting. The only reason they communicate is to get some recognition!

After studying the writing, i conclude they were written by the same person, from comparing, '450 east line st.' they are exactly the same, except for the misplaced dot on the first card.

I assume no other cards or communication has been recieved since then? That's more than a year. So, is he local, or has he moved on!?

Can you provide a link to any newspaper articles please, and background on Renee? Thank you.

[LetsBeConcerned]

Bear with me a bit since many on the link have been broken…I will provide them as best I can, there are just so many of them to wade through…. I will transcribe some, just be patient…

Here is a link that provides pictures…
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=92620373&MyToken=a50ac3a4-0438-48ab-9a0e-cd4af017cbde


Here are articles that were written by the university that she was planning to attend… …. July 17, 2006
http://sundial.csun.edu/media/storage/paper862/news/2006/07/17/News/Missing.Mother.Planned.To.Study.Education.At.Csun-2131859.shtml?norewrite200701142219&sourcedomain=sundial.csun.edu
Missing mother planned to study education at CSUN

TASHIANA JEFFERSON
Issue date: 7/17/06 Section: News
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http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/ReneePhoto265x371.jpg



Media Credit: Courtesy of Linda RomigRenee Fox holds her son, Eric and husband.

Family and friends of a missing 25-year-old Simi Valley mother, who planned to attend CSUN this fall, hired a private investigator to find her.

Authorities called off their search for Renee Fox on June 28 after search dogs lost her scent. Fox has been missing since June 24, when her car broke down on a remote road near the town of Independence in Inyo County. She walked eight miles through Mazourka Canyon, dropping her belongings along the way, including her purse with $900 inside.

Fox's family and friends remain optimistic that Fox will be found.

Judith Cairns, Fox's mother, said she always smiled and was polite to those she met.

Cairns said Fox did not appear upset the last time she saw her June 21, the day before Fox drove north through the Owens Valley.

"She was so cute (the last time I saw her)," Cairns said. "Her hair was in five pigtails and she was all smiles. She drove past my house and she honked at me. She told me she was taking a friend to work, which was not too far from where I lived."

Cairns said Fox usually encounters trouble navigating through Simi Valley.

The family does not know why Fox's car was found near the town of Independence.

Cairns said Fox could have gone for a drive in an attempt to think about some recent problems. Fox filed for divorce from her husband before she went missing.

"She might've been upset and just took a drive to calm down," Cairns said. "She was on her way home when she lost her way. Her car got stuck (in Mazourka Canyon), so she started walking to town and then she disappeared."

Fox is now listed as a national missing person by the FBI. Cairns said the family has hired Tye Atwater as a private investigator to search for Fox.

"(Atwater) is constantly on it," said Reese Somes, Fox's brother. "He's motivated and working with the local detectives when he can."

Cairns said she was in the hospital a week ago from kidney failure due to stress.

Reese and his wife, Tracey, spent days searching the Owens Valley for Fox when she first turned up missing.

Tracey said Beth Holloway Twitty, the mother of Natalie Holloway, the Alabama teen missing from Aruba since May of 2005, contacted Tracey July 12 to offer support and other resources. Members of the Texas EquuSearch Mounted Search and Recovery Team will now aid in the search.

"The thing we have in common is the search and rescue team," Tracey said. "The same rescue team that searched for Natalee Holloway in Aruba will be searching for Renee."

Cairns said Fox, who recently graduated Pierce College, wanted to be a primary schoolteacher.

"She's so determined," Cairns said. "She was a working mother who took care of her child and went to school."

Cairns said nerve damage sustained from several years of typing at an insurance job, was not enough to keep Fox from finishing school.

"It hurt her to carry her books," Cairns said. "I was surprised she continued to go to school."

Linda Romig, Fox's aunt, said Fox, who has a 5-year-old son, Eric, was excited about pursuing her studies at CSUN.

"Renee always dreamed and desired to go to CSUN," Romig said. "She's very patient with children. She is incredible interacting with her son. She would make a great school teacher."

Fox has three older brothers: David, 41, Reese, 40 and Eric, who died at 28.

As the only girl of four children, Cairns could not help buying Fox everything she wanted.

"She was spoiled, but not spoiled," Cairns said. "She had everything, but she wasn't a brat."

Cairns said Fox had a bright childhood and enjoyed bedtime stories and playing soccer. She took piano lessons at a young age and became a very skilled player, in addition to singing and playing the guitar.

Even as an adult, Fox's family refers to her as "Nee Nee," short for Renee.

Romig said growing up, Fox never appeared to be negative about life.

"She had a fun-loving and optimistic attitude," Romig said. "The glass was always half full, not empty."

As a child, Fox was detail-oriented and liked her hair and clothing a certain way, Cairns said.

"She was so funny," Cairns said. "She was only five or six, but her socks had to be just perfect and her hair had to be smooth on her side ponytail. She was popular in high school because she was a nice girl and I kept her dressed perfectly."

That attention to detail stayed with Fox into adulthood. When it comes to celebrating, family members said they could always count on Fox to be in the spirit and come through with holiday preparations.

"She's really into family," said Tracey, sister-in-law of the missing woman. "She would have the family gather around together and that's hard to do."

Whether it is coloring eggs, making baskets for Easter or making a birthday special, Fox participated.

"She has never missed a birthday," Cairns said. "Every year, she buys a card, a cake and is on your doorstep."

Reese said she always bought presents when visiting family and friends and is contentious of taking care of others.

"For Mother's Day, when all the mothers are sitting around the table, Renee makes sure every mother has a present, card or something," Reese said.

Fox is dependable in other times of need.

When Cairns became sick, Fox took off work for an entire week to care for her mother.

When their father died, Fox was the first person by Reese's side, he said. When her older brother, Eric, was in the hospital before his death, Fox never left his side, Reese said.

Fox's family relied on her for a home-cooked meal.

While she attended Pierce, she made sure dinner was on the table, Cairns said.

"She always makes things from scratch, never frozen," Cairns said.

In addition to cooking, Cairns said the 5 foot 4 inch blonde is also a huge animal lover.

She has raised Duke, her Great Dane since he was puppy.

Fox's family maintains hope that Fox will return and be reunited with her son and puppy.

"She's just so great in every direction," Cairns said. "Nobody could ever fill Renee's shoes."

[LetsBeConcerned]

Second article… Mind you, NO shoes/sandals were found…. I also think that some of these interviews happened the day of Renee’s funeral on Aug. 26…..



Sept. 5, 2006
http://sundial.csun.edu/media/storage/paper862/news/2006/09/05/News/Potential.Csun.Student.Found.Dead-2257086.shtml?norewrite200701142343&sourcedomain=sundial.csun.edu
Potential CSUN student found dead
Simi Valley mother was missing for two months

Danielle R. Swopes
Issue date: 9/5/06 Section: News
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The search for Renee Fox, 25, a Simi Valley woman missing for more than two months, is over. The body of the young mother who hoped to come to CSUN this fall was found under a bush in the desert near Independence, 200 miles from her home, on Aug. 10.

Inyo County Coroner Leon Brune used dental records to identify the body, which had been exposed to the harsh desert summer. It could be up to two months before tests are in and the cause of death can be determined.

Fox's remains were discovered by residents of Independence, a small town nestled between King's Canyon and Death Valley National Park, more than 200 miles away from Fox's home in Simi Valley.

Fox was last seen alive on June 24, walking toward Independence. Investigators said that the their leading theory is that Fox made a wrong turn onto Mazourka Canyon Road on her way out of Independence.

Mazourka Canyon, popular among off-roaders, quickly turns to gravel, leading off into the desert and abandoned mining country. Fox's late model Volkswagen Jetta broke down on Mazourka Canyon Road after the car bottomed out, damaging the oil pan, said Simi Valley Police Detective David Del Marto.

Her cell phone was found in the car, its battery dead. Her purse, which contained $900, was found the next day.

Fox was last seen alive 4 p.m. four miles from her car by a family from San Diego that keeps a cabin in the area. They asked if she was okay, and gave her bottles of water before she walked away. The family called the local police later that evening, trying to get them to go look for Fox.

"They called and they were like, 'Hey, we think there's a girl up here that needs your help,'" said Reese Somes, Fox's brother, as he described the call.

The police went out to look for Fox after her purse was found Sunday.

"We're upset that they didn't go up right away," Somes said.

"The sad part is, obviously she was alive around 4 or 5, and it cools down at night. If nothing criminal happened, she would have been alive Sunday morning. Had they gone up there, we probably wouldn't be talking."
"They told us that 'she's probably partying, you will be hearing from her in a few days,'" Somes said.

Somes and his wife, Tracey, went up to Inyo County and began combing the desert for his sister. The San Diego family that was the last known to see her alive, among others, joined the search. Beth Holloway Twitty, Natalee Holloway's mother, contacted Fox's mother, Judith Cairns. Equusearch, an organization that assists in searches for missing persons, looked for Holloway, sending volunteers and aerial drones to Independence.

"We checked into them before, to make sure they're legitimate," said Inyo County Sheriff Detective Paul Bedell. He added that his department shared information, but that Equusearch "pretty much worked on their own."

"There's issues when we work with others," he said. "We're not going to assume liability for a company that uses all untrained people."

The Inyo County Sheriff's Office went over the area with dogs, but Fox's scent disappeared, only to be picked up again miles away. They called off the search on June 28, deciding that Fox was no longer in the area.

"The cops say that she probably got a ride. Well, obviously it wasn't friendly," Somes said.

"From day one, they acted as if we were inconveniencing them. They kept blowing us off," said Somes. Fox's family hired a private detective, Tye Atwater.

In Simi Valley, Del Marto pulled phone records and performed a forensic exam on Fox's computer, checking to see who she'd been talking to, if she'd e-mailed anyone near Independence, or obtained maps of the area. He checked out these resources after offering the service to the family, he said, but found nothing.

"If it's a homicide, it's a whodunit; she was last seen up there by herself," Del Marto said, noting that she passed on opportunities for assistance.

"Things are probably not going to turn out well for the family as far as closure, based on the circumstances," he added.

Fox's family has their suspicions. Who or what caused the complete loss of the scent trail? Who sent the Inyo Register, the local newspaper, the collaged postcard with Fox's picture on it? Plus, the family says that Fox was found nude, with her pants and sandals nearby.

"No animal is going to just drag away her sandals," Somes said.

Bedell would not discuss Fox's state of dress, citing an ongoing investigation.

"It was probably just a need to kind of get away," Somes said.

At Fox's funeral on Saturday, August 26, Brian Fox stood up with his son, Eric, and praised Renee's skills as a mother.

"I would come home for lunch, from work, and, it was pretty funny actually, on the table there would be breakfast crafts, like Cheerios, and fruit, toast and jelly, and whatever you'd be able to put stuff together. The type of stuff she did to make sure that Eric was entertained and Eric was happy, was amazing. I think for me, it made it easier to be a dad, because I knew that if I ever slacked, she'd pick it up. She picked it up all the time," he said.

Brian made no reference to their marital relations, and quickly had Eric ask for volunteers to speak. There was a pause, as people made out what the little boy had said and summoned up the courage to speak in front of a large audience.

"I know, we all love her. Everybody does. Everybody misses her. I hear some people crying �We all miss her," Eric said. After that, even more people were crying.

Many of the friends that spoke referred to the past, the good old days of junior high and high school. They all mentioned Fox's bright smile, constant good mood, and care for those around her. Several mentioned electric blue highlights, which elicited laughter from the somber audience.

More than 200 people attended the service, which was held at Reardon Mortuary in Simi Valley.

[LetsBeConcerned]

HERE ARE MORE LINKS….
http://www.ridgecrestca.com/articles/2006/06/28/news/news04.txt

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/MISSING+SIMI+VALLEY+MOM'S+KIN+STILL+SEARCH.-a0147884327


There really are no signs on this road... something that I look for when I was up there....
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/MISSING+SIMI+MOTHER%2c+25%2c+STILL+SOUGHT+WHAT+HAP PENED+TO+RENEE+FOX%3f...-a0148096621

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/BODY+FOUND+OUT+IN+DESERT+MAY+BE+MISSING+SIMI+MOM.-a0149575626

http://cbs2.com/video/?id=21263@kcbs.dayport.com&cid=71

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=local&id=4322927#

video post cards
http://cbs2.com/video/?id=23373@kcbs.dayport.com&cid=71

The questions WILL drive you nuts because with the answers only drive you to more questions that the authorities are refusing to answer~!!! The authorities have told Renee’s immediate family NOT to call back~!!!

The authorities have gone on and blame the victim as well as the good Samaritans, stating that Renee was a victim of heat exhaustion, telling the public of the cell phone left in her car (leaving people to believe that she didn’t have one (cell phone) on her, when in fact the authorities knew that she had a new working cell phone… and still never took the time to use the technology to track down the “new” cell phone that would ultimately be found next to her body…The authorities defended them selves stating that it would not have changed matters… Heat exhaustion does not explain her missing clothes & shoes…So then, months later, the authorities said that Renee died of a drug overdose… how does that explain the missing clothes and shoes???…

then go back to the area that her body was found …was it ever searched by the authorities~???…the authorities themselves can’t even figure that one out~!!!. Here is a picture taken on Mazourka by the rangers station…on the day Renee’s body was recovered…

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=8952987&postcount=420
Here is a picture taken the same day, from town, just outside the rangers station. The mining structure is on the right. Renee was found just past the mining structure. On the left of the Road.

Mazourka Canyon Road

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/53668_176852_19392349_1155332499-1.jpg


On one hand the authorities are adamant that Mazourka road was searched (everything pictured above )… and they would have found so much as a water bottle …if it was there…so therefore Renee wasn’t there…search called off… no one ELSE is aloud or can continue the search… Renee’s body is found …and then…


This VERY same area was OUT of the search grid….

WHAT~!!!!!

Then the same authorities come out and say that Renee was there the whole time and died of a drug overdose within minutes of taking the drug…Case Closed


The picture above from where it was taken… if it where to pan to the left you would see the county jail as well as the ranger station…

The authorities feel that they have no reason to explain where her clothes & shoes are… or why it took soooooooooooo long to find her ~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here is a debate where the Administrator (Freshwater) had asked Renee’s family what concerns are about the sheriff’s Department… Renee’s family had kept the list of questions “short” as not to confuse or overwhelm anyone… the response from the detective is still shocking…

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=8644555&postcount=128

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=8644557&postcount=129




***That was early in the day, several hours later, after these people had gone about their business, done some sightseeing, engaged in other activities, they encountered, had a chance encounter with, I believe, it was forest service personnel who were at the scene several miles away where they had landed a helicopter for repairs and has the original people that had encountered Renee saw someone in uniform, they said, ‘by the way, we saw this woman up in the canyon. Don’t know what’s up with her, but she was up there.’****(There isn't anything to see in between seeing Renee and the rangers station)
***** The following day, on Sunday afternoon, the 25th, unrelated informants found a purse, some personal property. They reported finding that, deputies responded, and that would be the beginning of any involvement.”*****Finally, Motweiler disputed the family’s assertion that the sheriff’s department had been less than cooperative with Renee’s distressed relatives.
****“We were communicating to the next of kin, the husband,” Motweiller told Crime Library. “There are some other relatives who would call. We were involved in the search, we were involved in working the case and we can’t go through the same information multiple times, so we contacted the next of kin, we provided information to him as the focal point that all of the family could contact and get information. Apparently that was not satisfactory for some of those family members,” he said.******(Very Unsatisfactory~!!!)

There are a few articles as well as message boards written on Crime library… here’s the first…
http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0706/0501_renee_fox.html

July 7 Renee escaped the desert…
http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0706/0701_renee_fox.html

Aug 14 Renee’s body is found…
http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0806/1403_renee_fox.html

aug. 14 body confirmed
http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0806/1801_renee_fox_body.html

Nov. 2
http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/1106/0202_renee_fox.html


Dec. 1
http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_329.shtml

http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_462.shtml

http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_742.shtml


2006 THE YEAR IN REVIEW POLITICAL UPSET, BRUSH FIRE NEWS IN '06
Date: Dec 31, 2006
Words: 725
Publication: Daily News (Los Angeles, CA)

<snippped>
In one of the area's more bizarre mysteries, Renee Fox, 24, of Simi Valley was found dead on a remote road east of the Owens Valley in Central California.
The mother of a 5-year-old son, she had disappeared June 24, and her family frantically searched for her along Mazourka Canyon Road, east of the town of Independence.
That's where her nude body was found in August. Her death was labeled accidental, and her family said she had a bad sense of direction and probably just made a wrong turn and became hopelessly lost.
During the investigation, a photo of Fox was sent to the Inyo County Register, along with a postcard featuring cut-out pictures of alcoholic beverages, potato chips and the head of an extraterrestrial creature pasted on a sheriff's uniform. The mailing was turned over to police.

[LetsBeConcerned]

(Being in Scotland, some of the clues are difficult for me to understand, i.e. your phone system etc)

However, there has to be some importance given to it, otherwise why put it there? I hope you guys come up with something there.

Renee was walking, a few people passed by, giving water, i'm sure they all offered her
a ride, we may take it for granted she refused, and was enjoying the walk even though
it was very hot. Someone i think, came along and didn't allow her to refuse. Some personal belongings found in the road, the other belongings still in the perps vehicle perhaps? especially as it sounds like there was a struggle, and this guy would be in a
hurry to get away, off the road, before other drivers chanced on it.

The only thing i can come up with for the use of Elliot Ness's name: does he work in law? or does he study them, to minimise his mistakes and forensics? does he see himself in the same light? self importance comes to mind, but does he
get recognised the way he wants to be? He's having a laugh being mysterious.

Are there any other crimes that can be connected to the same MO? (The Q's are driving me nuts)

Definitely a movie buff, old movies maybe?

quote: bishop is a wonderful 'small' town, why not just say wonderful town? Could it
be wonderful to him, because he's gotten away with more crimes there? ( not sure of the
geography here either, so bear with me)

cordialy, elliot ness: how many people use that word these days? usually reserved for
invitations etc. Does this suggest he's an older guy, (late child of elderly parents) late 30's upwards, he doesn't need money, he left $900 behind. Pretty well educated, middle class. So robbing was never the intent, he would have grabbed the cash first, he knew what he wanted, so pre-meditated? not his first crime? It's like i can almost see him rubbing his hands together, wonderful town, gleeful, he got away with it, so now he's taunting. The only reason they communicate is to get some recognition!

After studying the writing, i conclude they were written by the same person, from comparing, '450 east line st.' they are exactly the same, except for the misplaced dot on the first card.

I assume no other cards or communication has been recieved since then? That's more than a year. So, is he local, or has he moved on!?

Can you provide a link to any newspaper articles please, and background on Renee? Thank you.

I found this link to the phone number… it is to a newspaper that went out of business around the time that Renee went missing … it is in Tombstone Arizona and it is named Tumbleweed http://www.tombstonetumbleweed.com/


I was also told that it could be a code that should be deciphered. Like some sort of game...:biggrin:

Back in the day of Elliot Ness..... phone numbers also included words and initials like Pennsylvania 6-5000 would be “PA6-5000” and area codes were dialed ONLY when you were dialing from out of the area.:seeya:

Elliot Ness was in law enforcement and went after gangsters, bootleggers as well as corrupt cops… he died in the 1950’s and there have been many books, movies and television series done about him. I even heard a rumor that one of the crimes that he investigated involved taunting postcards… I have yet to verify that part.

To Quote the link below...

"Ness's career in law enforcement continued for a decade beyond the Capone years, a decade in which his very considerable talents flowered. At the age of 33 in Cleveland, he faced the challenge of his career when he took over the corrupt and incompetent police force in a city that had become a haven for gangsters."

the complete article about Elliot Ness is here...
http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangster...rs/ness/1.html
:read:

[Athena]

here's the front of the 2nd postcard....
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/jo_momma_82/Postcard2Front2.jpg

back of 2nd postcard.......
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/jo_momma_82/Postcard2back22.jpg

Don't know if he has anything to do with whatever, but this is what came up doing a search. The postcard is stamped August 3, 2006 so for all we know this may be a recently assigned number so don't jump to conclusions:

Forbach, Bill
1253 N Camino San Rafael
Tombstone, AZ 85638-6568
(520) 457-3008

http://www.whitepages.com/9900/search/ReversePhone?full_phone=520-457-3008&localtime=survey

[Elfinrow]

I will give it a go: This person intends to strike again in this wonderful small town of Bishop. They wear a uniform; are posing as something they are not whether that be a cop security guard or whatnot. They drink too much and eat too many potato chips and have a beer gut; they are over weight. Clearly it's "your choice" whether you go after one of your own or speak out. Or it's "your choice" to do what you do or it's "your choice" to drink to excess.
Because of the scary face; he likes to make his victims look this way. He gets off on it. Fear.

*armchair is getting cold so now I have to go back to it*
:eek:

[Bluefox]

I remember watching the series on tv about Elliot Ness, i thought he was terrific, and just the other week i read his biography on CL

Judging by the apathy, and lackadaisical attitude of the local authorities, i wouldn't be surprised if the perp was wearing uniform.

Bear with my previous post, i run it through my mind like a video, and basically put the thoughts down which come into my head!

I'm sure you have already noticed the signifance of the post cards, in that, they were posted and received BEFORE RENEE WAS FOUND,DEAD!!!!

Does this not alone, suggest prior knowledge and VERY STRONGLY SUGGESTS FOUL PLAY!!

I take it, it was those same local hotshot policemen, who said she had taken an overdose? Has there been no information released by the FBI?

[AlsoKnownAs]

My post above the phone number was a 'Residential' number & available (un-assigned). Interesting find that it had belonged to a newspaper. I would have to wonder about a Truck Driver or is there such a thing as Traveling Salesmen anymore? Yes I think the Post Cards indicate foul play. These 'brilliant' LEO's ever release what she suposedly OD on? Has there been an offical report?

[Wichita]

What seems obvious: The Sheriffs Department was unconcerned at the beginning, as were the forest rangers. Why? Perhaps laziness and cynicism combined to equal apathy. The area is harsh, hostile, hot, and visited regularly by tourists. Perhaps the rangers who joked that they hoped it was in the Sheriffs jurisdiction best summed up the attitude of most everyone in that climate. The bottom line is, no one wanted to step out of their comfort zone to check the welfare of this young woman. Professional? Not quite. Sinister? Doubtful, unless one of the deputies is the killer. But, since the entire office seems to be suffering from the same disease, a conspiracy is not likely. It seems like it is apathy, used and taken advantage of by the killer.

What else is obvious? She was murdered. The one thing that makes me think so more than any other clue is that her shoes were never found. Once cannot walk in that environment w/o shoes. (Fetish, trophy, or taken inadvertently when the killer left?) She obviously had shoes when the two groups of witnesses gave her water. The fact that she was nude, with her arms crossed suggests rape, and posing by the killer. It is possible that she could have removed her own clothing during a hallucination caused by drug induced dementia, or dying of thirst and having delusions. The crossed arms, are not normal, and is the best indicator that she was "dumped". It is supported by the missing shoes, and other "unmentioned" items.

Common sense dictates that she was headed in the right direction when the two groups of witnesses gave her water. Folks, how hard is it to backtrack yourself on a gravel road when your car breaks down? All one need do is walk
in the opposite direction in which you were driving. It seems likely that the heat, the miles, the two positive encounters with strangers and the sense of desperation, may have inclined her to get in a vehicle with another kind stranger who offered her a cool drink. A fatal error. Perhaps the vehicle she felt safe getting into was a patrol car?

Why was the money not stolen? The killer never dreamed that a petite, attractive blond, walking alone in the wilderness, would have that kind of money in her possession. Remember, he had not seen the kind of car she had been driving. As far as he knew, she was broke, if not poor. Larceny was not his motive. I imagine he kicked himself, though, when he read accounts of the money he missed. I can just see him cursing himself for being stupid. After all, he took her body, and her life. How easy to have taken her money?
He simply didn't think of it. It was a crime of opportunity, unplanned, and is a "lust murder". The killer is definitely familiar with the area, which means he is a frequent visitor, or a resident.

I don't know what kind of drug the toxicology report indicated she had overdosed on, but my guess would be either cocaine, or some opiate derivative, or synthetic opiate, such as vicadin, or percocet. Considering the condition of her remains, the possible "posing", the nudity, and the missing shoes, it seems possible that the drugs could have been administered to her without her knowledge in order to facilitate control at first, and cause her death later. Unfortunately, the chances of knowing for certain the cause of death is slim to none, unless there is a leak. If she was strangled in addition to the drugs, the hyoid bone may have been broken, which could be discovered by an astute pathologist. If that is the case, don't expect to hear any official reports to this affect for a couple of good reasons. If the killer is connected with the investigation, look for a leak as to the actual cause of death, or of the "unmentioned" items still missing. Why? To make details of the case "public" information can provide a suspect with a defense, or alibi if a suspect is discovered.

The post cards: There are some interesting things about the writing, but I doubt that the cards were sent by the killer. To me, they are definitely critical of the police. The reference to Elliot Ness is indicative of a person who is either bordering old age, or is at least historically savvy enough to hint that a person like Ness is needed to "clean up" the Inyo County Sheriffs Department. It seems that the "alien" head on the sheriffs deputy is a clear reference to a talking head, or someone incompetent at the least, and a monster at the worst. I haven't been able to figure out the Bishop connection, but the "laws" depot is another reference to law enforcement, and a depot is just another word for office. The telephone number is some sort of cypher, which I have no talent for. The reference to alcoholic beverages on the first card may be a clue to a particular officer who is an alcoholic. In a "small town", everyone who lives there will know who the drunks are, and if there is a local cop who drinks excessively, most of the locals will know it. I need to research the geography a bit to understand the layout of Bishop to Chloride, to the area where she was found. The person who sent the cards may be trying to tell the newspaper that there is a crooked cop. Why not just write a letter? Because he/she probably is a member of the same department, and doesn't want to be identified as a "snitch". People are easily identified by their style of writing. It is almost impossible to disguise, imo. Conversely, the killer could have sent the cards to divert attention away from himself, knowing the local opinion about the lack of professionalism exhibited by the cops. :shrug:

Elliot Ness was a "G" man, which was the nickname for federal agents in those days. Today, the FBI is the agency that investigates civil rights violations, and corruption by local jurisdictions. They are the "G" men of today.

I just read this thread tonight for the first time, and I have some work to do to get the information situated in my mind. These are just "first blush" impressions, and are probably way off base....but, I've been wrong before and and I've survived. :D

[FDInLaw]

Excellent post, Wichita!

I'm so happy to see Renee's case being discussed here! Foul play is so obvious. My heart goes out to Renee's loved ones! :rose:

[WarmNCozy]

What seems obvious: The Sheriffs Department was unconcerned at the beginning, as were the forest rangers. Why? Perhaps laziness and cynicism combined to equal apathy. The area is harsh, hostile, hot, and visited regularly by tourists. Perhaps the rangers who joked that they hoped it was in the Sheriffs jurisdiction best summed up the attitude of most everyone in that climate. The bottom line is, no one wanted to step out of their comfort zone to check the welfare of this young woman. Professional? Not quite. Sinister? Doubtful, unless one of the deputies is the killer. But, since the entire office seems to be suffering from the same disease, a conspiracy is not likely. It seems like it is apathy, used and taken advantage of by the killer.

What else is obvious? She was murdered. The one thing that makes me think so more than any other clue is that her shoes were never found. Once cannot walk in that environment w/o shoes. (Fetish, trophy, or taken inadvertently when the killer left?) She obviously had shoes when the two groups of witnesses gave her water. The fact that she was nude, with her arms crossed suggests rape, and posing by the killer. It is possible that she could have removed her own clothing during a hallucination caused by drug induced dementia, or dying of thirst and having delusions. The crossed arms, are not normal, and is the best indicator that she was "dumped". It is supported by the missing shoes, and other "unmentioned" items.

Common sense dictates that she was headed in the right direction when the two groups of witnesses gave her water. Folks, how hard is it to backtrack yourself on a gravel road when your car breaks down? All one need do is walk
in the opposite direction in which you were driving. It seems likely that the heat, the miles, the two positive encounters with strangers and the sense of desperation, may have inclined her to get in a vehicle with another kind stranger who offered her a cool drink. A fatal error. Perhaps the vehicle she felt safe getting into was a patrol car?

Why was the money not stolen? The killer never dreamed that a petite, attractive blond, walking alone in the wilderness, would have that kind of money in her possession. Remember, he had not seen the kind of car she had been driving. As far as he knew, she was broke, if not poor. Larceny was not his motive. I imagine he kicked himself, though, when he read accounts of the money he missed. I can just see him cursing himself for being stupid. After all, he took her body, and her life. How easy to have taken her money?
He simply didn't think of it. It was a crime of opportunity, unplanned, and is a "lust murder". The killer is definitely familiar with the area, which means he is a frequent visitor, or a resident.

I don't know what kind of drug the toxicology report indicated she had overdosed on, but my guess would be either cocaine, or some opiate derivative, or synthetic opiate, such as vicadin, or percocet. Considering the condition of her remains, the possible "posing", the nudity, and the missing shoes, it seems possible that the drugs could have been administered to her without her knowledge in order to facilitate control at first, and cause her death later. Unfortunately, the chances of knowing for certain the cause of death is slim to none, unless there is a leak. If she was strangled in addition to the drugs, the hyoid bone may have been broken, which could be discovered by an astute pathologist. If that is the case, don't expect to hear any official reports to this affect for a couple of good reasons. If the killer is connected with the investigation, look for a leak as to the actual cause of death, or of the "unmentioned" items still missing. Why? To make details of the case "public" information can provide a suspect with a defense, or alibi if a suspect is discovered.

The post cards: There are some interesting things about the writing, but I doubt that the cards were sent by the killer. To me, they are definitely critical of the police. The reference to Elliot Ness is indicative of a person who is either bordering old age, or is at least historically savvy enough to hint that a person like Ness is needed to "clean up" the Inyo County Sheriffs Department. It seems that the "alien" head on the sheriffs deputy is a clear reference to a talking head, or someone incompetent at the least, and a monster at the worst. I haven't been able to figure out the Bishop connection, but the "laws" depot is another reference to law enforcement, and a depot is just another word for office. The telephone number is some sort of cypher, which I have no talent for. The reference to alcoholic beverages on the first card may be a clue to a particular officer who is an alcoholic. In a "small town", everyone who lives there will know who the drunks are, and if there is a local cop who drinks excessively, most of the locals will know it. I need to research the geography a bit to understand the layout of Bishop to Chloride, to the area where she was found. The person who sent the cards may be trying to tell the newspaper that there is a crooked cop. Why not just write a letter? Because he/she probably is a member of the same department, and doesn't want to be identified as a "snitch". People are easily identified by their style of writing. It is almost impossible to disguise, imo. Conversely, the killer could have sent the cards to divert attention away from himself, knowing the local opinion about the lack of professionalism exhibited by the cops. :shrug:

Elliot Ness was a "G" man, which was the nickname for federal agents in those days. Today, the FBI is the agency that investigates civil rights violations, and corruption by local jurisdictions. They are the "G" men of today.

I just read this thread tonight for the first time, and I have some work to do to get the information situated in my mind. These are just "first blush" impressions, and are probably way off base....but, I've been wrong before and and I've survived. :D

EXCELLENT POST! But all your posts are! If this is your "first blush" impression, I cannot wait for the next segment!

[LetsBeConcerned]

I first want to thank EVERY ONE for some Great observations~!!!:seeya: :seeya: :seeya:

Here are some quotes from the Inyo Register, dated December, 2 & 3, 2006.(This paper only prints 3 times a week) Where the authorities contacted the press before the family… Releasing the “Cause of death”

“The mystery of the Mazourka Canyon death has been resolved,” a press release from the Inyo County Coroner’s Office states. “After an extensive criminal investigation by the Inyo County Sheriff’s Department, Inyo County Coroner’s Office and with the assistance of our contracted forensic autopsy service in Southern California, we have determined the cause of death for Renee Michelle Fox as acute methamphetamine/amphetamine intoxication,” the press release sates.

Inyo County Coroner Leon Brune said the toxicology tests concluded on Fox’s remains “confirmed an extremely lethal amount of the drugs were in her system”

“We kind of expected that” a drug overdose could have been the cause of death “from the get-go” Brune said, noting that the other likely possible cause of death would have been “hyperthermia and exposure.” But, Brune said, with the toxicology report in hand, it is a “proven fact” that Fox died of a drug overdose.
<snipped>
“She died within minutes of taking the drugs, not hours,” Brune said, adding that the drugs appeared to have been ingested orally, one of the most potent ways of introducing the drug into the body,

[LetsBeConcerned]

My post above the phone number was a 'Residential' number & available (un-assigned). Interesting find that it had belonged to a newspaper. I would have to wonder about a Truck Driver or is there such a thing as Traveling Salesmen anymore? Yes I think the Post Cards indicate foul play. These 'brilliant' LEO's ever release what she suposedly OD on? Has there been an offical report?

In order for Renee to be picked up by someone driving a “big rig”… Renee would have had to make it all the way to Hwy 395, since I don’t think a big rig would be able to go up Mazourka and especially be able to turn around… Now if Renee would have made it to the Hwy it would have been just as easy to walk to town, since it is also right there~!!!

You can look at an aerial map of the town of Independence CA, to see what I mean.


You may be on to something with Traveler part. It wouldn’t be a salesman as much it would likely be a miner.
The area is filled with old ghost towns and mines~!!! It is illegal to pick up trash in these ghost towns…. As well as (not) make them your home… Everything is supposed to be left as it was 100 years ago.

I think that it is possible that people can still “work” these mines…but I think that they may need a permit… I also think that they cannot make that place (their campsite), a “permanent residence”… So therefore they must move back to their residence or move on to their next mine to work…. I think that I heard that the permits to work the mines could last a year(maybe more or less)… Yet may only be able to camp in the area for only a month or 2. I think it could be because it is on government land, as to why they couldn’t live (permanently) at the same place that they mine.

They may even move from state to state.

I don’t know if these mines contain precious metal or precious stone or both… Either way… I would assume that you would mine one or the other and may not have experience in doing both~??

I took classes in jewelry over 25 years ago, but I don’t think we ever delved into finding the “ingredients” in its rawest form…

[Wichita]

It looks like the "obvious" isn't so obvious now, huh? Let's see....drug overdose is the cause of death, so the next question is whether the death was ruled a suicide, homicide, or accidental. Does anyone know? There are more questions now than there were before...

If it was suicide, why did she remove her clothes? Where are her shoes?
Why did she throw her purse away? Was she totally nude, or partially nude?
I have seen people remove clothing when they are hallucinating, whether as a result of drugs, or with a psychotic break with reality. Perhaps she was just hot.

Overdose on meth or cocaine is painful and violent. Did she simply lie down, cross her arms, and gently slip into oblivion? I think not...she didn't take sleeping pills. Did she have an addiction to meth, and if so, was that part of the reason for the divorce?

I wish dog's could talk. I wonder why her scent was lost at the mine shaft, then found several miles away? Why was her scent found miles away, only to be lost again?

Who found her? Was it during a search, or was she "stumbled upon". Was the person who found her associated with any of the previous searches? Was the finder associated with law enforcement? Does the finder live in the area, or frequently visit the area? Why was the finder meandering around just off the road? What was he/she looking for?

Could she have been depressed enough to commit suicide? It seems likely, since that was the reason for her leaving home, and considering she was seen crying at the court house in Independence. According to the family who gave her water, she was disoriented. Does that mean mentally confused, or was she having a break with reality? Was she perhaps delusional, as opposed to merely disoriented?

If this case is a suicide, or accidental overdose, is there any reason for the authorities to withhold information about what other personal items have been found, and where they were found? Has anyone had any input from the family concerning the cause of death?

The post cards don't seem as sinister as they did, but the reference to Bishop, and it being a "wonderful small town" is nagging me. There was no collage on the second card, just the reference to "Bishop".

Why did the Inyo County cops think a drug overdose might have been the cause of death from the "get go." Which "get go", the disappearance, or the discovery of her remains? Did her husband tell them she was a user? Did they find syringes, pipes, or other paraphernalia during the searches that were not made public? I guess I'm asking too many questions, and apparently some of the answers will never be known.

[LetsBeConcerned]

Why was the money not stolen? The killer never dreamed that a petite, attractive blond, walking alone in the wilderness, would have that kind of money in her possession. Remember, he had not seen the kind of car she had been driving. As far as he knew, she was broke, if not poor. Larceny was not his motive. I imagine he kicked himself, though, when he read accounts of the money he missed. I can just see him cursing himself for being stupid. After all, he took her body, and her life. How easy to have taken her money?
He simply didn't think of it. It was a crime of opportunity, unplanned, and is a "lust murder". The killer is definitely familiar with the area, which means he is a frequent visitor, or a resident.




Excellent Questions…. But I think I should add that the money found in her purse was NOT found in her wallet. It was hidden. The items of her purse were spilled out… So it was already opened when found. Was the purse opened due to impact or someone had already gone through it and thought that nothing valuable was inside~? I know that there are some that never keep their cash in their wallet to protect themselves from “pickpockets.” I know someone very close to Renee that does the very same thing. So we don’t know if the wallet ever contained cash…

Inyo Register December 5, 2006
About a week before she made her trip to Inyo County, Fox had cashed about $13,000 in checks.
Investigators recovered a total of $6,400 from Fox’s purse, car and clothes throughout the investigation, leaving $4,500 unaccounted for.
I definitely agree that he is kicking himself for leaving that much cash behind~!!! But Renee had had it hidden and he may have assumed that he had it all.

Renee was in the middle of a workers comp. case and would have gotten even more thousands of dollars, had she showed up for court. Which, when she didn’t show, was even more reason for concern…. Yet the LE kept insisting that she will come home when she runs out of money~!!! How~? She had NO car~!!!

Those that knew how much cash she had… immediately thought robbery~!!

Now for a some sarcasm … Wasn’t it “sweet” of him to leave enough money behind for to pay for her funeral~!:flamemad:

Something else that may or may not be relevant… and this comes from someone who had seen her in the canyon… Renee was tooo well dressed for the area and the environment … to well manicured for the rugged terrain… someone that would be considered a mirage, yet this was a real person that they had spoken to…At the same time, they also knew that there is a rangers station right on end of the very same road.

(The City of Independence is the county seat and has a population of only about 600.)

Why these same rangers waited 3 hours to call the sheriff’s that were across the street~?
How many had actually told the rangers of the very same sighting~?
Why did the sheriff’s wait over 20 hours before responding~?
Why did it take 7 weeks to find a body this close to the road, that is right behind the county jail~?
Why did it take 7 weeks to find a body this close to town~?

Here are pictures...The first was taken of where Renee's body was found... Strangers, people that never knew Renee have built,
added to, and maintain the memorial.... They had even planted flower seeds that should come up this spring...


http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/ReneeMem2.jpg

The second picture was taken by a reporter, of the city of Independence.... that is at the end of Mazourka Canyon Road, on the right of the picture ... Which at the end of the road on the right, IS the Same place that the Ranger's station would be...

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/RIndepenenceAugust152006page2better.jpg

How did she get there~? (Her purse was found miles up the road, inside the Canyon; where as her body was found outside the canyon closer to town) Where are her shoes, clothes and undergarments~?:shrug:

[Wichita]

Thanks for the update. I have some thoughts about the Collage on the first post card:

I think the post cards are from someone who was in the canyon, and knows something. Maybe "Bishop" is the last name of a deputy or ranger, even a local drug dealer. Maybe Bishop is a place where this "informant" would be willing to meet a family member, or private investigator. One thing is certain, he doesn't want to meet with the cops. I was thinking, too, about the potato chips in the collage. I think it was another reference to law enforcement. "Chips" was a popular show back in the 70's. I don't wish to bring up a hurtful
memory, but "Lays" is close to "laid". Perhaps the idea is she was laid there by Chips, meaning cops?

Run an ad in the personals at the Inyo Register. Something along the lines of: E. Ness: We agree. Bishop is wonderful. Do you have any more post cards? Send them to: __---- ---- (address)
It's worth a try. I think this person will help you.

I must go to work, but I'll be back later.

[Wichita]

The longer I think about these post cards, the more I feel that the sender wants you to contact "him". (I think the sender is a middle aged male. The cursive is sloppy, like he really never writes. He prints.) He left you a bogus phone number as a message to "call". The way to call is through the Inyo Register with a personal ad. Give it a try, you've nothing to lose. I think he is a local resident, or even an employee of either the forest service, or the sheriffs department. That's why he wants to remain anonymous. He is afraid. Since the criticism seems to be toward the Sheriffs Dept., my guess is he is associated with that agency in some way. Perhaps a volunteer?

[Bluefox]

You know, i like my movies to have a beginning a middle and an end! This has all the earmarks of a real bad movie, you can't follow it, sections seem to be missing, and the dialogue stinks!! I would walk out on this one, but, oops i forgot, this isn't a movie it's real, and it stinks even more. Are those cops for real?? This is 2007, not 1902 out in the hills, what the heck makes them think people are gonna swallow their garbage?

Reporters should be having a field day with this one, what are they saying about this?

So let's see, Renee plans to commit suicide, so decides to dress up, go for a drive, car breaks down, decides to end it all there, pops the pills, but first throws her belongings around, walks for miles throwing things away with wild abandon, decides to take her clothes off.....................it doesn't work for me.

If this lady was in the habit of taking drugs, surely the first article about it would have read like..................police & family are very concerned about Renee Fox missing for x amount of days, who is a habitual drug abuser, and is known to be depressed..............but there's no hint of this until the conclusion, and miraculously, drugs suddenly come into the picture.

Over here, with suspicious deaths, an enquiry would be held, what's your equivalent? I'd sure like to hear what the coroner (pathologist?) has to say, as it seems all the statements are coming just from those local cops, whom i wouldn't trust to babysit a flea!

Wichita, the clues you've come up with about the card sender, are brill, i hope they bear some fruit, worth trying indeed.

This isn't a straight forward case by all means, and it isn't a straight forward suicide!!

[Wichita]

Bluefox, I just read the entire thread on another board on this site. I now have a little better understanding of what happened. I still haven't been able to get an answer on whether the death was ruled suicide, homicide, or accidental.

Apparently, the family believes she was murdered, which I suspect as well. I doubt if we will ever get enough follow up information to be able to offer any significant ideas for help. I did find out that Renee was found by a firefighter who was riding a four wheeler, and searching on his own. I have no idea if he was one of the volunteers who searched with Inyo county authorities earlier.

I also found out how she was dressed when seen by the witnesses, and there were many, who saw her walking in Mazourka Canyon. There was also a stolen car recovered from the desert near where the search and Renee had been. Consequently, there was a "criminal" element present in the area about the same time Renee and the benevolent witnesses were there. Her pocketbook was found near the mineshaft where her scent disappeared, but there was no mention of whether there were any tire tracks, or other people's foot prints. The mine was searched, but nothing was found. She was given water by two different sets of people, yet none of the plastic bottles were found along the track she walked to get out of the canyon. Apparently, her tracks were fairly easy to follow until they disappeared, some eight miles worth of tracks. According to the news articles, the sheriffs department was not notified by the forest rangers as reported by the witnesses who gave her water. The Sheiriff's spokesman said that their office was not notified until the 25th. I have a tendency to believe this, considering the forest ranger's attitude that they hoped she was in Sheriff's jurisdiction, not theirs. At any rate, the search was too little, too late. The deputies believed she had made her way completely out of the canyon, and perhaps caught a ride. They hinted that they thought she was a drug user, which leads me to think that some sort of paraphernalia, or possible drugs was found in her car, purse, or pocketbook. No one is saying, so we will never know. It doesn't matter whether she was using drugs, it matters whether or not she was murdered. Just because a drug overdose is the listed cause of death, it doesn't mean she wasn't forced to take the lethal dose. I would like to know why the cops suspected drug involvement from the "get go".

Also there was another little tid-bit that caused me to raise an eyebrow. She had called her boyfriend on her cell phone, and told him she was somewhere on 395. This call was the night before she drove into Independence, and subsequently into Mazourka Canyon. He said he told her, 'Why don't you just come home?' "and she did". That is either a mis-quote by the reporter, or the boyfriend was mistaken. How could she have come home, and then disappeared in the canyon? Obviously, she did not come home.

Not knowing what has been investigated, and explained; and what remains a mystery is too much. I would like to know more about the stolen car. When was it stolen? Where was it stolen from? What is the criminal history of the owner? Is it a legitimate stolen, or was it fraud? Did the owner get it stuck while doing drugs in the canyon, and report it stolen to cover the loss? How did the thief get out of the canyon? Did he have friends to give him a ride? Did they pick up a young woman walking down the road? I don't know Blue....Mazourka Canyon sounds like a busy place...:shrug:

[Bluefox]

Thanks Wichita

I just read part of the other thread, and it clears up one part, about the drugs. It's still like a jig-saw puzzle, with too many parts missing. Why the post cards at all? It's very strange indeed. :shrug:

[Wichita]

After spending several hours going over the other thread on the other board, as well as following links to other web sites, it is clear that this is a HUGE cluster.

There have been two other women found dead besides Renee. The authorities are playing everything close to the vest, and not releasing any information. It is impossible to determine if there is a link between the other two deaths, let alone determine if they were homicides.

It is also clear that a local law enforcement officer using the moniker Larry W, has said some very unprofessional things to the family, and apparently there is the threat of a law suit by the family against ICSO. I imagine that any information that is gleaned from these discussions will end up in court, if a suit is filed. I certainly don't blame the family for their lack of trust toward ICSO, or any other L/E for that matter. The forest service dispatcher sat on the call for three hours, and then there is the "I hope she's in the county's jurisdiction" remark by the ranger. Apparently, there was only one deputy on patrol on June 24, 2006, and he was booking a prisoner at the time the forest service dispatcher notified the ICSO dispatcher, which was a recorded phone conversation. The ICSO dispatcher neglected to pass the information along to the deputy when he cleared the jail, and subsequently, no one was sent into Masourka Canyon until the following day, almost 24 hours later. Although this is very tragic, and totally unprofessional, according to my understanding of civil law, the only person with standing to bring a law suit would be Rene's son. I might be wrong, because I am not familiar with California law. The states that I am familiar with will not allow a law suit for wrongful death unless the survivor is dependent upon the future earnings of the deceased.

I did some research, and found out that the stomach is one of the first organs to decompose. Therefore, the contents of the stomach would not have been available for toxicology analysis. The liver, on the other hand, is one of the last organs to totally decompose. Since the liver is the body's chemical processing plant, it is clear that substances might be found in the liver at autopsy. However, since the body has a tendency to store methamphetamine in fat cells, and in the liver, I suspect that this is where the information about the amount of meth in the system came from. However, there is no way the coroner could have said with certainty that the amount of meth in the body was the cause of death, nor that it was ingested orally, unless mummification of the remains took place. If mummification took place, there is a slight possibility that some of the contents of the stomach remained. It is unlikely. I doubt that there is a conspiracy between the pathologist who conducted the autopsy, and the ICSO, or coroner. In order for the family to know the actual results and manner of death, they must have a copy of the autopsy report. The family may want to have an independent pathologist study the report, and recommend whether a second autopsy should be conducted, if it is not too late. Apparently, the case has been closed, and is considered an accidental death. Therefore, all of the reports and evidence should be available to the family upon request. If the ICSO refuses, then get a court order for the files and evidence. BTW, there is absolutely no way the coroner could establish the time of death to the 24th of June. A body deteriorates in a fairly stable manner, depending on the conditions. It would not be too difficult to determine how long Renee had been dead before discovery. There is a pathologist at the University of Tennessee who has conducted years of research on decomposition of human and animal remains. I will find a web address for you.

After reading the posts on the other board, I also believe the reason the ICSO refused to allow TES to search the canyon by ground search was to prevent anyone from finding anything. Their argument will be that they didn't want "amateurs" to damage potential evidence, but it is clear that the ICSO had, by that time, convicted Renee of being a drug addict. That they were not concerned is an understatement, and it appears that the refusal to allow a search by this very reputable company was just.......stupid at the least, and
sinister at the most. What did they have to hide? Incompetence? Something worse? It was a very poor decision. The other sad reality is that the ICSO did not have the authority to prohibit anyone from searching at the time TES was there. There was no crime scene, there was no body, there was no nothing. Anyone could have searched anytime, with no fear of arrest.
Did he stop other visitors from using the canyon? I think not.

If any of the family or other concerned person associated with the family is still visiting here, I would like to know whether there is any confirmation that Renee was seen at a store in Independence on Saturday night? I think I read somewhere that this lead had been discounted, but I can't remember for certain.

I commented yesterday that perhaps the anonymous post card sender wanted the family to establish some sort of communications, and that he perhaps intended to use the Inyo Register. After reading the other thread, it is clear that the family doesn't trust the Register, and understandably so. Sometimes, we have no choice but to use the tools we have.

As a member of a small community, I would like to give the family some advice. This is to help, not to criticize. Everyone who has any ability to comprehend at all can see that you have a clear right to be angry. If you are ever going to get to the bottom of Renee's death, you are going to need help.
Build some bridges. Back off a little on the saber rattling, and quietly go about the community asking questions. I can tell you that small town politics are different. People do not grease the squeaky wheel as readily there as they do in larger communities. Publicly thank the members of the ICSO who searched for Renee. Express regret about the outcome, and empathize with the authorities regarding the other unsolved deaths, not to mention the other problems with drugs, etc. I know this will not be easy, but I think it will pay dividends with the community, the newspaper, and perhaps with the SO. Eventually, you will be able to get what you want from the community.

I hope I haven't offended any of the family with this advice. I am truly trying to help from an objective point of view. As a government employee for the past 36 years, I know what I am talking about when it comes to dealing with public officials in small towns. Remember, there are two other suspicious deaths that may or may not be related to Renee's. What you find out through the bridge building process may help others that are now in the same boat with you.

[LetsBeConcerned]

Here is a map, where I have tried mark all the areas of interest to this case. So you can better understand all the distances in the case.

If you look at the aerial view and zoom, you will be able to see the buildings as well~!!!:)


http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=36.792346~-118.130981&style=r&lvl=10&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&cid=7D4BFD8A28CFE8E2!227&encType=1

I sure hope that this comes up right~!:seeya:
If not I will try again...

[Wichita]

It came out very well. I am studying the layout. I'll be back

[Wichita]

To research information about decomposition, and estimating time of death, google The Body Farm. Professor Bass has conducted much research, and you might have to buy a few books, but it will give you more necessary information, especially after you read the autopsy report.

Thanks for the map. It helps.

[crimehunter]

I aint no-one in law,still I will take a stab at it though!

This person is telling you he does not like the cops and making fun of them,because he thinks he/she is better and they won't find the truth.
He/she made a map for you telling you a story.
I think he wanted to murder her a long time ago...Someone who knew her.
This person knew her very well.

I think a hand writing check on people may help( friends or familly!). You might find someone who writes this way..
Ask at the local post office's.... if the hand writeing looks formiliar...as they probably see lots and this may stick out like sore thumb

By the way...He/she writes
big, a symptom of wanting to be noticed as it is a thrill to him/her to send this card.It is funny to who ever sent it and it is no joke.
He/she wants to confuse you, but then agaon maybe this guys travels and goes to these towns for some reason..was she ever to the one town or state?
Has the card been checked for DNA... ect?

Is this dude in the military or in a university?

He likes to drink...hung around in the town bars maybe?
the bat face or what-ever..I think this dude was out for her blood,maybe even from passed issues?


Brings up the word Bishop....Was this dude some type churh goer of some sort?

He likes historical information like trains or the west.

[crimehunter]

The star may not mean police... as in they did it....It may mean she had a leagle issue or knew something that needed the law and this person wanted her dead as to not spill the information.The star is a way to "railroad" the police or..... make them look bad and that in turn maybe to get them off the trail of evidence?

The star might mean the star state? or a symblolic to a state meantioned.

520= Tuson, Arizona did not check the other numbers.
The face with the big mouth open..well he thought she was a big mouth and closed it for good,so she wouldn't tell.
Maybe thats why she was walking in such hot weather...she was in deep thought trying to figure out how to handle a bad worsening situation...A way out..and it was unknown by anyone except the murderer?
Thinking ....what do I do now and she was deep into something!

This was not a random killing out of the blue....I can feel it ...it is a gut feeling...

[crimehunter]

There is something to hide in that town BISHOP..and he/she does not want it to be told.You know what I am talking of...REAL CRUD!Ripoffs what ever!ect!

[crimehunter]

Hmmmmmm...................Letters to the Editer..Newspaper or school papers?Been there done that!:D
Meaning this guy likes writing to newspapers, maybe he works for a newpaper or something?He would then know a lot about the town Bishop ...then maybe possibly because of that. Just a thought!

[crimehunter]

One last thought....I am sorry for the replies..I think in streaks!:D

Chips are (Salty) and hurt wounds or make things worse...so he/she removed the salty problem. Symbolic to the potatoe chip bag?:shrug:

[crimehunter]

:( Hey I don't mean to copy this ..but I noticed something...Look at the newspaper and the card this guy sent...It's outer edge design looks simular.Maybe there is something connected toi the news paper and the killer.
**Copied line......
{I found this link to the phone number… it is to a newspaper that went out of business around the time that Renee went missing … it is in Tombstone Arizona and it is named Tumbleweed http://www.tombstonetumbleweed.com/ **}

That phone number is there also.......................

Is there anything inthe paper from the past about her or people she knew?Maybe a link?Because the card is designed like the news paper.

[Bluefox]

After reading through the earlier thread, i stand by my first posts on this, the Profiler thread.

Not knowing of the other thread's existence, our task was to work out a profile from the two post cards and synopsis provided by Letsbeconcerned.

I'm not gonna re-hash & re-hash, so it's condensed:

Renee was known to have taken drugs in the past, but she was by no means your much read about down at heel drug type, and by all accounts she was trying to make something of herself.Some of her extended family are posting here, admirably, whilst going through such personal pain. They say she was a beautiful, strong determined lady. I believe them, they know her better than anyone, and when their instincts tell them something is amiss, something is amiss!!

I asked if there were any other murders which could be linked. Two more ladies are found, with either no or little information published. But it seems that women are killing themselves off with knives, drugs etc, but at least one Renee, has the presence of mind to cross her arms? (yeah right) LARGE RED FLAG HERE! Then we have the ad looking for info about the alleged murder of two missing men, allegedly carried out by person/persons from Bishop. WE NOW BEGIN TO SEE WHY BISHOP IS SUCH A WONDERFUL SMALL TOWN. You can do anything you like here, and get away with it. It has all the hallmarks of conspiracy, cover up call it what you will, but if there's more than one killer, the MO is gonna change, and it might appear that none are linked. With the kind of policing going on here, LE wouldn't be able to link up a paint-by-numbers. (Who's in charge of THEM and why haven't they all been fired?)

Because the post cards were sent before Renee was found, i am not convinced that it was someone trying to reach out. I think it was sent for sinister reasons.

(BATBOY: half human, half bat: bats live in caves (mines?) and in all movies, bats are seen as sucking the life blood out of people. In 'human form' (half human of course) they have incredible strength: CHIPS: traffic cop?) I'd be interested in anyone else's 'mind game' with these clues. The numbers seem to have great significance, either we need a mathematician or someone who knows about codes!

All the information pertaining to decomposition, smell etc etc, all the people who had been up there from day one, leads me to believe her body was later placed there, and her arms crossed. Did someone think it was 'time' for her to be found?

The sheriff seemed rather paranoid about not letting anyone search the crucial areas, yet we are led to believe he is PSYCHIC, 'cos she definitely isn't there?

She was seen crying earlier. Could she have recieved a distressing call on here cell phone. Was she meeting someone up there? Were her recieved and sent calls checked out?

Because drugs were found in her system, (of which i know nothing about, so can't comment) it gave LE the cop-out they needed, no further investigation required, then start back-pedalling to save their asses, or it helped in their duplicity.

Duplicity:1: contradictory doubleness of thought, speech, or action; especially : the belying of one's true intentions by deceptive words or action
2: the quality or state of being double or twofold
3: the technically incorrect use of two or more distinct items (as claims, charges, or defenses) in a single legal action

I have much admiration for LE, it's the minority of corrupt which is dispicable. They are paid by public money, we entrust them to serve & protect, those are the ethics they sign up to.

My heartfelt sympathy goes to Renee's little boy and her extended family & friends. Also to the people contributing on this site, who give a damn about someone who they may not even know, to try to find justice for her. I hope closure will be found here!

Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer, just WHO ARE THE ENEMY!

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/ciudad_juarez/

it can happen anywhere!

[crimehunter]

When Your in the shoes of someone who was raped ...You know a rapist always!
When you been shot at...You know when you are hunted always,because they want you out of the picture for known reasons.....Two different things.
Jelousy also does bad stuff to a person and it could end up murder from those who where struck with jelousy.

I truly hope who ever did this is found, because if they did it once they will do it again.
The family deserves an answer.

[crimehunter]

I thought someone said there where other suspicious deaths in the surrounding area.
Ok!.....Possible serial killer comes up.
I also noted how many times he/she mentions lone star. He like to be a loner...and he feels he is untouchable..as if he has done this before and figures he is to smart enough to not ever be found..
If you go to the free dictionary Wikipedia there is a sentence that I copied

About Ness!*************************************
Eliot Ness has been mentioned many times in music, including but not limited to the following songs:
************************************************** *****
"In the 1999 song performed by Dog Eat Dog titled "Gangbusters".
Gangbusters... Guys like Al Capone who loved being unknown. Made themselves at home and still got away... The law couldn't catch him or none of his hit men. So he died in prison for taxes unpaid... Screw prohibition. Crimes go unsolved, Elliot Ness, Couldn't wrap up the mob..."
Also I read something about murders going unknown in that wikipedia information...He is letting in on known other murders maybe? or hinting...Since he feels he is the untouchable and will never be found.

That is the type of guy I would say if you cross him or he does not like you your dead anyway...A gut feeling.

************************************************** *****
I don't think this guy was in Law....maybe like me studies it or was brought up in a law type of family so he knows stuff and uses this to put the attraction on to the law like I said making them look bad.
I feel this guy travels..maybe his work makes him do it.
Maybe works as a DNR or someone in State park type security..
Knows the hills and area really good with getaway scenarios because he knows the hills.....Like an Indian of the old times did.
Did she ever get into gang stuff.....Maybe she was going to rap on a gang that was into drugs ..maybe a found out murder or such and they wanted her dead so she would not.gangs can be anywhere and they have a world wide connection....So if drugs are part of it they would know who is with there group or against it...That would be big trouble.
Funny thing he shows the hills a lot and in the news paper there is the picture of the hills again in the Realtor business...Lone star Realty...The picture almost looks like the card..in the back round.
I'd like to know what here family was into...Like comunity Politics
This is kind of a weird thought..Is the child family issues..You knwo what I mean.

This sounds very simular to a unsolved case in my own area..It's listed on this site...Maybe we can hit to birds with one stone and figure out both........

[crimehunter]

One last thought.
Land legal issues can always cause problems and even sometimes murder....
We have a case unsolved that is not on this site ..that came up as a thought for the murder by people in the area...Thats all I can say.
....Might be why he brings up lone star..and "Lone star realty" ad is in the photo in that newspaper and is the one that looks simular to the card this person sent.

One last oh well here it is...Maybe he worked for a newspaper...getting interviews and such or worked in the postal division, so he would have to travel and send papers to mail boxes ect....would know the area...and all the small stuff to.
Like he said the town was good. He must have known a lot of information.

[LetsBeConcerned]

I thought I would provide some more links so you can better understand the distances and differences between the different Counties.


Here is a link of all the counties in California.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_counties_in_California

Renee lived in Simi Valley, Ventura County

Renee’s body was found just outside the town of Independence, (county seat) in Inyo County

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inyo_County%2C_California

The autopsy was performed in Orange County…

The Orange County Coroner, Michael S. Carona has been indicted on corruption charges.
http://losangeles.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel07/la103007usa.htm


The postcards are stamped Bakersfield, the county seat in Kern County

They are also stamped, Mojave, CA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojave_Desert

Here are some of the deaths from last summer (I also heard of a death in Keough Hot Springs, but without a name I can’t verify )

Summer Deaths Still Unsolved
http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_302.shtml

Chloride Arizona is in a County named Mojave

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohave_County%2C_Arizona

More about Chloride
http://www.desertusa.com/chloride/du_chloride.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloride%2C_Arizona

I sure hope this helps everyone~!!!:seeya: :seeya: :seeya:

[geofizz]

Not up on this case at all, just read bits, one report suggests victim was found nude, alarm bells, another suggests other bodies found in past in same area, more alarm bells, Victim dismissed as drug user but a nude drug user 200 miles away from home, come on people. Date rape drugs arnt usually taken volenterily by victims.

I think the trail starts were the body was found, where there more bodies found over the previous ten or twenty years and if so what sex. Profilers always miss a very important part of the crime scene when a serial killer could be involved and thats the body location. It dosent seem much or important but serial killers often bury by sex or dump by sex, This means to a serial killer the body must be placed, the placing is exact to a couple of yards sometimes even less. On the road in question if a serial killer was involved there would be other females already or about to be placed on the same side as Renee Fox was and on the other side of the road there would be in all probabillity male victims now or to come. The burial paterning would be circular and have a central point. A Mine or something tall or something missing from view and the victims would be placed round that centre point in vacant posititions, Vacant positions are hard to describe but one or more Serial killers can use a burial area, some killing a single sex and some killing both sexes.. i don't know much about anything except burial patterning of serial killers worldwide and this case has all the alarm bells i have ringing. If her body was found in the wrong position that also suggests it was not left there by a serial killer. I do doubt she walked 200 miles though or got naked to have a fix or a hit, where were her clothes, shoes. I apreciate some articles were found some two hundred miles away but she may have tried to leave a trail for someone to follow. Keep an eye on the area, if more bodies are found within a thousand yard area, it could be a lone site or serial killer central, Cases the paterning was missed are Hillside stranglings, New Orleans Durban SA WEst and Moors cases Ipswich and MI murders Dawn Shields UK, Green River. USA. thats just for starters.

Best Regards
Geofizz

[crimehunter]

I am wondering if he uses **Chloride** Arizona as a drug reference, maybe that where a drug ring is and she was going to snitch on them. In this article was towns Colorado mentioned.Drugs I feel was definitely a product of her murder.Maybe thats why they took the cloths..because there was a drug on them.:shrug:

Illicit drug makers can cook small batches of meth anywhere they can plug in a stove, microwave, or electric skillet (heat is not required, but speeds the manufacture). The ingredients include common cold medicines, ammonia fertilizer, and muriatic acid. Cooking generates a variety of noxious solvents and gases, such as hydrogen **chloride**, phosphine, and meth itself. According to an 8 August 2005 Newsweek article, for each pound of meth produced, five pounds of toxic waste are left behind.

The other thing you mentioned was her hands where crossed when found dead...Kind of reminds me of some type of symbolic like in a cult type doing or how the old west would place the hands before bariel...
They figured that was her proper way to be found as a way to make fun of her death.

I wonder if there is any other deaths that where similar around in the USA where the hand s where found in that position of a possible murder setting. Maybe this dude travels around all over...

[FDInLaw]

I am wondering if he uses **Chloride** Arizona as a drug reference, maybe that where a drug ring is and she was going to snitch on them. In this article was towns Colorado mentioned.Drugs I feel was definitely a product of her murder.Maybe thats why they took the cloths..because there was a drug on them.:shrug:

Illicit drug makers can cook small batches of meth anywhere they can plug in a stove, microwave, or electric skillet (heat is not required, but speeds the manufacture). The ingredients include common cold medicines, ammonia fertilizer, and muriatic acid. Cooking generates a variety of noxious solvents and gases, such as hydrogen **chloride**, phosphine, and meth itself. According to an 8 August 2005 Newsweek article, for each pound of meth produced, five pounds of toxic waste are left behind.

The other thing you mentioned was her hands where crossed when found dead...Kind of reminds me of some type of symbolic like in a cult type doing or how the old west would place the hands before bariel...
They figured that was her proper way to be found as a way to make fun of her death.

I wonder if there is any other deaths that where similar around in the USA where the hand s where found in that position of a possible murder setting. Maybe this dude travels around all over...
The way Renee's body was found really bothers me too. . . I'm a complete amateur so you all bare with me. . . isn't death by dehydration and/or drug overdose quite painful??? I've heard that people do crazy things like strip their clothes off when under the influence of certain drugs, so the being naked part doesn't bother me half as much as the peaceful pose she was found in. It just all seems staged to me. . . like Renee was murdered and her body was put in the position. Question; did the coroner determine that Renee died while laying on her back??? Blood pooling should have made this easy to determine. Has the family been provided with this information? If not, I'd say something is terribly wrong.

[Wichita]

The family has been unsuccessful in obtaining the actual autopsy report. What they do have is a "coroners report" from the Inyo County Coroner. That particular report is very vague, and is primarily a list of check boxes, with very little information. The narrative of the coroner's report is very vague as well, not describing the scene where Renee was found in detail. He did not mention that her arms were crossed, only that a pair of outer short was found 100' east of the body. There was no mention of her shirt, or panties, or shoes, or cap....nothing. The ICSO will not release copies of their case file, so the family is not getting any detailed information. Why?

When a body has been exposed to the elements and advanced decomposition takes place, blood is not readily available in many cases. However, in this case, apparently blood was the substance analyzed to determine the toxicology, according to the coroners report. That still doesn't mean the amount of substance found in Rene's system was the cause of death, it is the cause the coroner listed, because it is convenient. It is a matter of professional opinion. I think the doctor who actually conducted the autopsy ought to be the opinion the family is concerned about. Until they can get a copy of that document, they are still stuck with the coroner's opinion.

The cause of death during a drug overdose with stimulants such as amphetamine/methamphetamine, is stroke and/or heart failure. With amphetamine/methamphetamine, the heart rate increases causing what is known as tachycardia. It is painful, and panic is associated with it. I have personally investigated unattended deaths where the deceased removed clothing during a heart attack/stroke. The associated panic causes a claustrophobic reaction, and victims sometimes remove restrictive clothing. I have never seen a victim cross their arms across their chest in any of these cases, nor have I seen it in a murder unless the body was posed. Try lying down, and holding your arms crossed over your chest. They will not stay in place. the hands will rest on the sides because the elbows will come to rest on the floor (ground). I don't know if her hands were crossed over her stomach, her chest, or the elbows resting on the ground. It will make a difference. At this point, I would not trust any written report by any of the officers at the scene. Photographs will tell the truth.

In Renee's case, there was no mention of a bra being worn, or found at the scene, nor were there any panties. Was she wearing either one? No one knows. What is known is that shorts is all that was found. Could she have been suffering from tachycardia, associated with meth, and heat stroke? It's possible, but that is a violent death. It is not a "lay down, cross your arms over your chest and go to sleep" scenario. I'm not ready to accept the coroner's opinion of accidental overdose. I agree, FD, it seems staged to me, too.

[crimehunter]

Drugs have been around Utah and Arizona for many years and these guys are not anything to mess around with...I knew of a person who was up in the mountains somewhere in the areas I mentioned around his Army base and walked into some guys halling semi automatic machine type guns and they meant to kill anyone who bumped into their doings.This was 20 years or so..Think about what is going on now..The hills are a good place to do stuff where no-one knows. Maybe that person knows a place up there and that's why he is showing off the photo..The hills don't talk you know, but if they could, I bet they would have a lot of stuff hidden to tell.

[crimehunter]

Hey, I hope this is no dream but....I will throw it in anyway....who knows!
I was just thinking I believe somewhere in the past I read about a serial killer who was a movie buff.Went to movie contests or some type of doing like that. In "Alabama" and they have the Lone Pine film festival...Thats meantioned in his card.God I think I read this or saw it on a t.v. show of the past.Where best to get "Ness" fever.That dude was never found.Anyway something was real simular to all of this.I am going to do a little research.

[crimehunter]

Does anyone notice the card's stamps....It's a common buckeye butterfly.. OK ..But then you also notice how the first card is lightly written, lightly stamped, the butterfly is small...Then the second card..hand writing is bigger, louder,darker and the butterfly is bigger and darker....
The butterfly is found along road sides.......as she was found...Likes to hide in hills... he likes hills....
This character person, I feel is a definitely off his rocker OR has done this before and this murder was defiantly done deliberately,he knew what he was doing and this sounds like serial type doing...he does everything in such a orderly way, it's frightening and very loudly creepy.He wanted to be noticed and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't show up in the future somehow someday again.I am now starting to wonder even with the Milwaukee beer he isn't hinting he's been in Wisconsin....That could very well explain a few deaths here that are very much similar to the same type of unexplained murders known here and if this dude travels he could be..and he knows how to avoid the law and does his stuff mysteriously....
I know this......
He's Possibly older maybe?Might be the one.

I am telling you....NEVER EVER!
Even if they are asking you to do a favor for them...
Don't take rides with strangers!


To me the difference between a serial killer and a rapist who killed more then one even two...Is no different.
We also know if they are hunted they will leave to get away from the law..so they go somewhere and do there rape stuff. They are really good at getting away..You don't hear from them, but sooner or later they pop out of the wood work again and do what they do... quiet and like a cat on the hunt and in the dark..meaning not seen or heard except only by the one who is the victum.They usually don't care who you are and they just see a hit then there gone again, just to wait it out for the next time.

[crimehunter]

Hi ...I don't know if I am seeing stuff...Take a look at that card... the second one..Look at the star...around it..in the dark cloth area it looks like writing...I can defenetley see a capital (A )and some other writing.
maybne sometghing faded through maybe it's deliberateley on there...
A clue possibley?:confused:

[geofizz]

The prime thing is fact in the case and there seems little, the girl was found posed? Where both arms crossed or was one arm crossed? She was off a main highway but exactly which side of the side road was she on. The roads a dead end but she wasent at the end of it? There is nearly enough information there if its acurate to suspect a serial killing or a murder. Corpses dont generally pose themselves, there is some doubt about the town she came from, how many people have gone missing in that area or 25/50 miles round it in the past ten years. Its likly she got in a car with someone she knew. maybe just passing, drug dealers would have killed her where she stood, and might not have buried her. Two hundred miles away to be posed with possibly only one arm draped sugests the arm was pointing at something.

The something these days could be invisable but historic. If i was on the case i would start with the Medicine man of the local tribe or elders and ask about that area. Alarm bells would ring if the area was within a thousand or two thousand yards had Indian importance. If it had you can bet on a serial killer if not, its just a possibility. The geology is intresting, mining is a magnet for serial killers as is earth disturbance on or near sensitive sites, 220 people commite suicide a year in the uk on rail lines, a third commit the act on only six miles of track, the track and station are undergoing improvment.

The highest suicide location in the world is a cliff called beachy head the cliff extends for miles but the suicides mainly jump within four hundred feet of each other, the site they jump from is the centre of an avenue leading to a wooden circle built in the Bronze Age,. about three people today know where the circle was or the avenue to it still is. The people who jumped never knew.

lots of serial killers bury/dump in circles round electromagnetic anomoly. when the circle is full the last killer to use it usually buries a spade, another area is then chosen, in the Uk and Europe these sites are very easy to identify in the country but much harder in towns, there is usually something within every square mile but in the US there is a major problem with Indians. Generally the Indian was transiant, they used kieva stones on the great plains etc to mark important sites but used Totem poles which were removable. This is good practise enviromentally but the Medicine man or chief had to know were sensitive sites were. You can't be out by 3 feet, a serial killer dumping or burying cant be out by six feet either. While no one is bothered which side of a road a victims placed or if the location is correct they also wont realise why serial killers have to return to the area but not to vist the grave or the body but to experiance the buzz the area gives them. Its hard explaining but working on a missing victim case for 13 years you learn stuff. The Missisipi mound builders . Mayan's and Atecs knew all about where a male or femal body should be placed and why and the only people today who know that today are serial killers. Strange but true.

Regards
Geofizz

[Kellapple]

I remember when I first read this story and the follow ups on Crime Library. I just assumed the findings of the investigators was correct. After reading all the posts, I too find it suspicious. I think everyone has good points and maybe it would be nice to forward all this to the sheriff there and light a fire under them. Does anyone think the misspelling of "Regester" in the second post card is in anyway significant? So many questions.........

[awakening2lite]

Here's my first impression:

The person who authored the cards was right handed.
This person wants to be clearly understood
This person wanted her to be found
The post card with the collage says to me:
1. She came across this person
2. The killer gave her a choice of some sort perhaps to remove her clothing and he would give her something to drink
3. It is the killers thinking that she chose to drink poison even though she either did not realize it was poison or was simply desperate with thirst
4. Then she laid down and died
5. He felt because he was with her he saw her soul leave her body
6. He is both haunted and thrilled by what (he feels) transpired between them.
7. Missing clothing might be kept by the killer as a souvenir
8. The museum is a place where old things are kept for others to discover.

Eliot Ness show was titled the untouchables and that is how this person percives himself.
He might feel he is untouchable because he has some "insider" connection to LE. Maybe he is a relative or friend of someone. Or he might be the very last person