Calling All Whites

[Angie1960]

The Jena six & the debate over Jackson & Sharpton have lead me to send out a message to white people (as I am).

When I see injustice of any kind it hurts. When I see injustice done by racists to blacks it kills me. I agree that the Jena six should be punished for fighting/beating this white boy but there is NO WAY that he didn't say something to provoke the attack - what they were charged with is not justice. When I saw the crowds of people gathering in protest it saddened me to no end that 99 % of the people protesting were black.

Here is my point & MY CALL TO ACTION. To promote unity and help put an end to racism:

When there is an injustice and black people congregate to protest, we need to join them and let the world see that the majority of whites stand together with blacks against injustice of any kind. Just step out of your comfort zone and whenever there is an issue like this don't let our black sisters & brothers stand alone! :rose:

[cildawg1]

Somehow I thought your post would spark a lot of conversation, but it didn't. Nonetheless, I want you to know that I appreciate the thought.

Cil

[Angie1960]

Somehow I thought your post would spark a lot of conversation, but it didn't. Nonetheless, I want you to know that I appreciate the thought.

Cil

I'm surprised too - thanks. I guess it's too touchy a subject. Too sad.

[Luke Davis]

The name of the thread made me wonder if it would last, I really doubted it.

I'm white but this thread didn't attract me until I saw it was here for several days.

I also wonder if it is in the right place. Probably would get more attention in the Jena Forum.

Just a thought.

[One2Snoop]

The name of the thread made me wonder if it would last, I really doubted it.

I'm white but this thread didn't attract me until I saw it was here for several days.

I also wonder if it is in the right place. Probably would get more attention in the Jena Forum.

Just a thought.

Those were my thoughts too Luke Davis, glad you said it first! :biggrin: :seeya:

Just a note. I don't think the color of anyone's skin here makes any difference whatsoever. Actually I was a bit shocked and offended by the title of this topic and if I'd seen the opposite I'd be equally offended.
No offense to you Angie1960, but to me it only reinforces racisim when I see something titled like this. I do think this thread would be better suited in the Jena 6 forum with a different title. JMO, IMO. :patriot:

[Charon]

No, leave it where it is. I agree with Angie 1960 and it's about time we pull our heads from the sand. We are not talking about a brother in jail, we are talking about reality and it's time we call a spade a spade.

Crime affects us all, and who ever perpetrate a crime against a black can and may perpetrate the same or worse to a white the very next day.

Equality before the law, if nowhere else, is so important, and it may very well be the answer to it all. Where I served as a cop (white) we used to pull out all the stops (helicopters, cops from surrounding districts, trackers etc.) when a white was murdered in town. When a black got stabbed to death in his own home in the township, you'll find a response car, detective and crime scene tech. How silly and unfair.

Then as far as death penalty is concerned, they abolished it because it was viewed as a hatred thing. More blacks were executed than whites. The reason was pretty simple: There are 40 mil blacks to 4 mil whites. The likelyhood that a black would be convicted of murder is 10/1. Now we live in a lawless society where even our police commissioner is being investigated.

Getting back to Angie's post one must understand that ethnic groups will always stick together, no matter what. The diversity has been part of us for too long. It will take individual sincerity and action to cross the boundaries.

[Seashell]

The Jena six & the debate over Jackson & Sharpton have lead me to send out a message to white people (as I am).

When I see injustice of any kind it hurts. When I see injustice done by racists to blacks it kills me. I agree that the Jena six should be punished for fighting/beating this white boy but there is NO WAY that he didn't say something to provoke the attack - what they were charged with is not justice. When I saw the crowds of people gathering in protest it saddened me to no end that 99 % of the people protesting were black.

Here is my point & MY CALL TO ACTION. To promote unity and help put an end to racism:

When there is an injustice and black people congregate to protest, we need to join them and let the world see that the majority of whites stand together with blacks against injustice of any kind. Just step out of your comfort zone and whenever there is an issue like this don't let our black sisters & brothers stand alone! :rose:

excellent and good advice, if only everyone of all creeds and races stood side by side the world would be more tolerant and fair.

[Seashell]

Equality before the law, if nowhere else, is so important, and it may very well be the answer to it all.

Getting back to Angie's post one must understand that ethnic groups will always stick together, no matter what. The diversity has been part of us for too long. It will take individual sincerity and action to cross the boundaries.
Agree.
In joining forces with different COMMUNITIES we gain more strength to stop racism, Angie got it right as well.

[Athena]

The Jena six & the debate over Jackson & Sharpton have lead me to send out a message to white people (as I am).

When I see injustice of any kind it hurts. When I see injustice done by racists to blacks it kills me. I agree that the Jena six should be punished for fighting/beating this white boy but there is NO WAY that he didn't say something to provoke the attack - what they were charged with is not justice. When I saw the crowds of people gathering in protest it saddened me to no end that 99 % of the people protesting were black.

Here is my point & MY CALL TO ACTION. To promote unity and help put an end to racism:

When there is an injustice and black people congregate to protest, we need to join them and let the world see that the majority of whites stand together with blacks against injustice of any kind. Just step out of your comfort zone and whenever there is an issue like this don't let our black sisters & brothers stand alone! :rose:

After catching up on some of the boards I decided to stick my head in to see what this was about and glad it wasn't a thread to promote racial division. The title of your thread IMO sounds offensive although now I realize it wasn't meant to be.

Being an avid supporter of civil rights and having two multi-cultural children our family is pretty much color-blind anyway and speaking out for injustice is routine.

I wish there were more discussion and dialogue about racial issues but alas it seems to ultimately end up with race baiters who create controversy on both sides. Most discussions re: race I find needs to be in a controlled environment for those very reasons. They tend to become heated and emotional more so than any other discussions I have ever been involved in.

I agree with One2 and Luke that had you posted this in the Jena6 forum it probably would attract more attention and also changing the title.

Perhaps you can send FW a PM and ask her to move it and possibly rename it to something that will not be perceived as "baiting". Just a thought. :)

[wind149]

When I started the thread about JJ and AS I didn't want to open a can of worms and have everyone divided and I am glad for everyone's point of view here. The Jena Six incident shows that this country is certain areas anyway, are racially divided still in the 21st century. Will we ever reach peace and be as one American to another? As long as you have people that like fueling the fires of racism no. Last year and this pissed me off to no end the KKK had a Grand Poobah living just a town away from me. I could have gone my whole life without knowing that fact and of course they tried to have a rally here and I am pleased to announce turn-out was at an all time low! MI does not want them here and by not showing up to their hate fest, they got the message loud and clear! And left the same day! As for the Jena Six thing, the boys did wrong and should be punished and Bell went back in so it shows to me he has not learned from this and probably has been listening to the wrong people. I got people mad at me on the other board for pointing out that there are still some real red-neck yahoos in the deep south that don't know what era they are living in. The hate crime against that poor woman in WV is prime example of pure D white trash thinking it way too cool to abuse a black woman and hope them SOB's get a lengthy sentence and there be some big brothers and sisters waiting for them when they get there. That was an evil act, so senseless, and done to her for the color of her skin. They would not have done that to a white woman. The poor man that was dragged to death by them scumbag's in TX, at least they got the death penalty and rightly so. And I agree if you have a city that is mainly made up of black folks such as Newark NJ, it would stand to reason that there would be more black on black crime. Young black men are dying in that city everyday over gangs and drugs. Here in Saginaw, they are dying every day as well. Flint has a lot more crime I think than Detroit! Driveby's, gang violence, drug wars, it is a mess there and with the state's budget problems, they want to lay off cops instead of hiring more! As I said I am glad this thread was started as well, some subjects people do not want to talk about, some try to forget that these issues exist, and some people get pretty heated, but you can't hide from the ugly truth.

[Angie1960]

Thank you for your responses - I didn't mean to offend anyone but I admit the title is a bit baiting but is refelects the post. It was meant as a call to action. And I considered putting it inthe Jena six thread - but it has more to do with just the Jena six - it is a call to action in all these instances, injustice and black protest shouldn't be a black issue alone. It should be a human issue - we are hurting ourselves when we allow people of any color who are persecuted or oppressed to carry the burden alone.

There will never be unity until we cross the color barriers. This is not an easy thing to do. We are afraid to be the minority, we might get called out by angry individuals, or we might just be appreciated for taking a stand - who knows? It's called stepping out in faith, through fear and making the right choices.

I will PM FW & see if this should be moved. Thanks again! :beer:

[sallynuts]

The Jena six & the debate over Jackson & Sharpton have lead me to send out a message to white people (as I am).

When I see injustice of any kind it hurts. When I see injustice done by racists to blacks it kills me. I agree that the Jena six should be punished for fighting/beating this white boy but there is NO WAY that he didn't say something to provoke the attack - what they were charged with is not justice. When I saw the crowds of people gathering in protest it saddened me to no end that 99 % of the people protesting were black.

Here is my point & MY CALL TO ACTION. To promote unity and help put an end to racism:

When there is an injustice and black people congregate to protest, we need to join them and let the world see that the majority of whites stand together with blacks against injustice of any kind. Just step out of your comfort zone and whenever there is an issue like this don't let our black sisters & brothers stand alone! :rose:

It makes/ should make / absolutely no difference to the colour of ones skin... a crime is a crime... and u should be punished according to the law... i have never read that the colour of a person's skin decides what punishment under law they should receive... well not for probably 100yrs.. or so... and i think that is being conservative...

However... i applaud u for trying to make a difference... it might just take another 100 yrs... :shrug:

[Angie1960]

It makes/ should make / absolutely no difference to the colour of ones skin... a crime is a crime... and u should be punished according to the law... i have never read that the colour of a person's skin decides what punishment under law they should receive... well not for probably 100yrs.. or so... and i think that is being conservative...

However... i applaud u for trying to make a difference... it might just take another 100 yrs... :shrug:

You're right & when I say I feel an extra hurt when crimes are race related (and for me in particular, between blacks & whites). It's not really the color of one's skin that at the heart of the matter here, it's the history and the relationship between two peoples who are living with the consequence of our history. It's very sad. And there is no balance in the justice system - there is oppression, like it or not and that IS because of the color of one's skin. There is also so much fear on the part of "the old white male establishment." Now don't get me started on the American Indians and what our ancestors did to THEM.

[raven]

There are four drivers that drive people to attack their fellow human - race, sex, religion and greed. Greed just comes do to simple economics and sex is mainly about domination and control. Religion and Race is all about segregation and division which in turn is about control. As long as there are sheep that will follow an ideology or doctorine blindly and without question we'll always have these problems. Some people just don't like or don't trust those from different backgrounds whether they are racial or religious or sometimes even just from a different neighbourhood.

[Angie1960]

Speaking of what drives us - or better, our evolutionary MISSION; I believe that #1 we need to transform our animal nature into a spiritual nature. Humanities propensity for seperatism comes from our animal - tribal nature.

The irony of this, and the actual purpose of our spiritual evolution, IMHO is that if one wants to deterime the true master race, all they have to do is look at the outcome of the mixing of races. In my experience, and I believe there have been studies, those of us who are of mixed blood tend to do better in almost all aspects of life. They are often smarter and healthier. And though there is often a stigma (at this time in history) it builds character and leads to a more balanced outlook on life. I admit, this in itself could be construed as a stereotype, and we are still evolving, therefore the verdict is still out. But personally I would be happy to see a world of complete diversity, black, white, yellow red, and all the shades of color in between.

[Seashell]

Speaking of what drives us - or better, our evolutionary MISSION; I believe that #1 we need to transform our animal nature into a spiritual nature. Humanities propensity for seperatism comes from our animal - tribal nature.

The irony of this, and the actual purpose of our spiritual evolution, IMHO is that if one wants to deterime the true master race, all they have to do is look at the outcome of the mixing of races. In my experience, and I believe there have been studies, those of us who are of mixed blood tend to do better in almost all aspects of life. They are often smarter and healthier. And though there is often a stigma (at this time in history) it builds character and leads to a more balanced outlook on life. I admit, this in itself could be construed as a stereotype, and we are still evolving, therefore the verdict is still out. But personally I would be happy to see a world of complete diversity, black, white, yellow red, and all the shades of color in between.

kudos sister! :rose:
you hit the nail on the head :D

[Athena]

Speaking of what drives us - or better, our evolutionary MISSION; I believe that #1 we need to transform our animal nature into a spiritual nature. Humanities propensity for seperatism comes from our animal - tribal nature.

The irony of this, and the actual purpose of our spiritual evolution, IMHO is that if one wants to deterime the true master race, all they have to do is look at the outcome of the mixing of races. In my experience, and I believe there have been studies, those of us who are of mixed blood tend to do better in almost all aspects of life. They are often smarter and healthier. And though there is often a stigma (at this time in history) it builds character and leads to a more balanced outlook on life. I admit, this in itself could be construed as a stereotype, and we are still evolving, therefore the verdict is still out. But personally I would be happy to see a world of complete diversity, black, white, yellow red, and all the shades of color in between.

I don't know about the healthier and smarter, but being multi-cultural myself, I believe most multi-racial / multi-cultural (take your pick) are more tolerant of differences in people and definitely can be the answer to end racism. :)

I remember watching one of Tiger Wood's earlier interviews on Oprah -- and he made a statement that I will never forget. We all saw the bond between him and his black father more so than with his Korean mother but he told Oprah in order for him to say he was black would be denouncing his mother's side and he rejected "orthodox" racial classifications and refused to let race define him.

My children actually think the same way Woods does and they both have such a diverse set of friends. They also refuse to let race define them and for that I am so very proud of them. When my daughter was in the 2nd grade (about 7) the teacher gave her an application to bring home for me to fill out but she filled it out for a gifted program in school. There was a section where she had to check her race. She drew a line through it and wrote "human". She was the talk of her grammar school especially amongst the teachers and her teacher called me to tell me about it. They joke with us so openly too and can have you in stitches and when they do certain things they'll say oops that's the black in me, or the native american in me, or the french in me, etc. My son loves potatoes and refers to them as the Irish in him. They are so multi-racial/multi-cultural we joke and call ourselves the "Little League of Nations". I wouldn't change it for the world. I have no idea who they will marry either and we may diversify even further. LOL :)

[Athena]

Oops look I got it wrong. Woods' mother is Thai not Korean. Sorry. But anyway I found this statement he made at one of his golf games:

MEDIA STATEMENT:

The purpose of this statement is to explain my heritage for the benefit of members of the media who may be seeing me play for the first time. It is the final and only comment I will make regarding the issue.

My parents have taught me to always be proud of my ethnic background. Please rest assured that is, and always will be, the case - past, present, and future.

The media has portrayed me as African-American; sometimes, Asian. In fact, I am both.

Yes, I am the product of two great cultures, one African-American and the other Asian.

On my father's side, I am African-American. On my mother's side, I am Thai. Truthfully, I feel very fortunate, and EQUALLY PROUD, to be both African-American and Asian!

The critical and fundamental point is that ethnic background and/or composition should NOT make a difference. It does NOT make a difference to me. The bottom line is that I am an American...and proud of it!

That is who I am and what I am. Now, with your cooperation, I hope I can just be a golfer and a human being.

Signed,

TIGER WOODS

[raven]

Speaking of what drives us - or better, our evolutionary MISSION; I believe that #1 we need to transform our animal nature into a spiritual nature. Humanities propensity for seperatism comes from our animal - tribal nature.

The irony of this, and the actual purpose of our spiritual evolution, IMHO is that if one wants to deterime the true master race, all they have to do is look at the outcome of the mixing of races. In my experience, and I believe there have been studies, those of us who are of mixed blood tend to do better in almost all aspects of life. They are often smarter and healthier. And though there is often a stigma (at this time in history) it builds character and leads to a more balanced outlook on life. I admit, this in itself could be construed as a stereotype, and we are still evolving, therefore the verdict is still out. But personally I would be happy to see a world of complete diversity, black, white, yellow red, and all the shades of color in between.

I'd like to see these studies that suggest those with mixed blood are smarter and healthier than others. That sounds like reverse racism. For starters most (if not all) of us are of mixed blood anyway. We're all decended from dozens of different races. We in England have Celt, Saxon, Roman and Norman blood in us (as well as others). Just because someone is white or black does not mean that they are some sort of pure blood.

[Silveradotd]

:seeya: I'm an American, even though I have german blood in my vains. that being said, I'm still an american because I was born here. I'm not german American, I'm an AMERICAN,......I hope you all see where I'm going with this ( I HOPE ) LOL.... Some of my closist Friends are Black, the funny thing is they don't call them selfs African American, I've Ask why one time, I was told because they were born here in America, One Friend a very close Friend said that he was a Black American, Not African American, he said he wasn't born in africa. I wasn't going to argue with him, He knows what He is and I know what I am, We are Two Americans One Black One White. I wish the rest of the world could be the same as Jon and I, But as long as there are people that use racism as a tool for getting out of trouble and everything else, well Like I said I hope that you'd see where I was Going. Now someone will call me a racist cause I said that. OH by the way, I think Tiger Woods Is the Greatest, I knew his father, I thought the world of him also.....

SilveradoTD :patriot:

[raven]

Not racist at all - totally agree with your sentiment and applaud it. :beer:

[Angie1960]

I'd like to see these studies that suggest those with mixed blood are smarter and healthier than others. That sounds like reverse racism. For starters most (if not all) of us are of mixed blood anyway. We're all decended from dozens of different races. We in England have Celt, Saxon, Roman and Norman blood in us (as well as others). Just because someone is white or black does not mean that they are some sort of pure blood.

I never said anything about PURE BLOOD when I referred to mixed blood the deeper meaning is that certain races seem to have propensities for certain diseases like blacks may get sickle cell and whites, mutlple sclerosis. I wonder, and this part is theory, that maybe, sometimes, mixed blood might cancel out these propensities. That is a study I would love to see. I will look for the information you asked for. My personal experience working with children for many years, is that the multi racial children excelled. Just my experience.

Shout out to Tiger Woods!!! :beer:

[Angie1960]

I'd like to see these studies that suggest those with mixed blood are smarter and healthier than others. That sounds like reverse racism. For starters most (if not all) of us are of mixed blood anyway. We're all decended from dozens of different races. We in England have Celt, Saxon, Roman and Norman blood in us (as well as others). Just because someone is white or black does not mean that they are some sort of pure blood.

Hard search to do for free though there is some info out there..

http://www.biodiversityforum.com/race-mixing-and-eugenics-t7036.html

Look for the blurb about the 1986 analysis by C.T. Nagoshi and R.C. Johnson

Also I am German, Fench and Indian (the German & French are still in the same race I believe, while the Indian would be a different race). I think that Celt, Saxon, Roman (don't know about Norman) would all be considered the same basic race aren't they?

[Athena]

I never said anything about PURE BLOOD when I referred to mixed blood the deeper meaning is that certain races seem to have propensities for certain diseases like blacks may get sickle cell and whites, mutlple sclerosis. I wonder, and this part is theory, that maybe, sometimes, mixed blood might cancel out these propensities. That is a study I would love to see. I will look for the information you asked for. My personal experience working with children for many years, is that the multi racial children excelled. Just my experience.

Shout out to Tiger Woods!!! :beer:

Hi Angie,

Now I get what you mean. Notice when I responded to you I said don't know about smarter and healthier .......... and now it makes sense. :)

[wind149]

My god-daughter Shelli is bi-racial and luckily I can only recall one time where she was sorta confused as to what race she is. She was about four and come screaming into the house all upset. I was babysitting that day and I was like what is wrong? Thinking I will find her with wounds,, I looked her and I said what is it? "some boy called me a dirty brown girl" How do you answer that one? I said to her have you noticed that me and Mommy and Aunt Jeanette and Grandma are a different color than you? She looked at me and said no, and then I explained to her that she got her color from her Dad. Her mother never told her father about Shelli and we knew he was a good man and she had this pride thing going on and right after that, she called him and the man cried and the next day he came into this beautiful girl's life and until he died he was a great father, left her comfortable, she got a great education and is a teacher! She is married to a white man and they have two great kids!! This little girl, when she born I was right there. She was born on New Year's Day and at first I saw racism right off. Usually the town we lived in would go gaga over the New Year's kids and Shells was the only one born. She got a small write-up in the paper and that was it. Her mother did not want to make a fuss but my tude was this child is entitled to everything a white baby would have gotten. And I went to the chamber of commerce and said as much. The woman tried to play dumb with me at first and I simply said to her well I guess I can call the local TV station and see what they have to say. Gifts ended up rolling in for weeks! She was so darn cute no one could resist her! She was also smart as a whip. One time a kid gave her a hard time and she looked right at him and said I am an American citizen and I am not a zebra ,a zebra is a an animal that lives in Africa and the kid did not know what to say back. So I do know how cruel people can be, and the poster is right. The only true Americans that were born here were Native Americans. My first husband is Blackfoot and my adoptive mother hated him. She would not come to our wedding. I shut her up good when I reminded her she was only a second generation American as her parents both were born in Germany, his family has been here for centuries!! My true heritage now that I know my real family, is Scottish and Irish and I look very Irish! So I guess we are all mutts in a sense but what we are if we live in this country are Americans no matter what race we are. On September 11, 2001, evil people wanted to take that away from us and are still trying.

[Athena]

<snip>..... but what we are if we live in this country are Americans no matter what race we are. On September 11, 2001, evil people wanted to take that away from us and are still trying.

:beer: :patriot: :rose:

[raven]

Hard search to do for free though there is some info out there..

http://www.biodiversityforum.com/race-mixing-and-eugenics-t7036.html

Look for the blurb about the 1986 analysis by C.T. Nagoshi and R.C. Johnson

Also I am German, Fench and Indian (the German & French are still in the same race I believe, while the Indian would be a different race). I think that Celt, Saxon, Roman (don't know about Norman) would all be considered the same basic race aren't they?

Interesting reading - thanks for posting. I get more what you mean now. Celts are the original settlers of the British Isles, then over the centuries we've been invaded a few times by Saxons (Scandanavians), Romans (initially Italian, but at the height of the empire included most of Europe, northern Africa and parts of the middle east) and Normans (French), so us Brits are well and truly mutts! :)

[SimplySue]

I've been eying this thread for days now but didn't investigate it because of the title. Now I'm really glad I decided to pop in today. It's wonderful to see the common goal to do something to move our racial problems in the right direction.

Unfortunately, I also think it is going to be a long time before there is a significant change. Change that will make a difference in the social balance of our country. Actually of the world. America is not the only country with racial problems.

One of the problems IMO is that everyone is so hell bent on being politically correct. Especially people in power.

I believe we all have a responsibility to teach our children and grand children to respect other races and cultures. One of the great things is that bi-racial couples and marriages are alot more common than when I was young. People are actually meeting people of other racial backgrounds and learning that, "Hey we really ARE all human beings with the same wants and needs even if our skin color or religious beliefs are different."

It's not going to be an easy task to unite America, and it's not going to happen overnight. But nothing worthwhile ever is.

United we stand, and divided we are going to fall eventually if we don't wake up.

Peace out. :hat:

[Angie1960]

I've been eying this thread for days now but didn't investigate it because of the title. Now I'm really glad I decided to pop in today. It's wonderful to see the common goal to do something to move our racial problems in the right direction.

Unfortunately, I also think it is going to be a long time before there is a significant change. Change that will make a difference in the social balance of our country. Actually of the world. America is not the only country with racial problems.

One of the problems IMO is that everyone is so hell bent on being politically correct. Especially people in power.

I believe we all have a responsibility to teach our children and grand children to respect other races and cultures. One of the great things is that bi-racial couples and marriages are alot more common than when I was young. People are actually meeting people of other racial backgrounds and learning that, "Hey we really ARE all human beings with the same wants and needs even if our skin color or religious beliefs are different."

It's not going to be an easy task to unite America, and it's not going to happen overnight. But nothing worthwhile ever is.

United we stand, and divided we are going to fall eventually if we don't wake up.

Peace out. :hat:

Thanks for popping in - I think my underlying motive to title it the way I did was that maybe some racists would click on the thread and either learn something or just burn a little. ;)

[Crystal_Ann]

The Jena six & the debate over Jackson & Sharpton have lead me to send out a message to white people (as I am).

When I see injustice of any kind it hurts. When I see injustice done by racists to blacks it kills me. I agree that the Jena six should be punished for fighting/beating this white boy but there is NO WAY that he didn't say something to provoke the attack - what they were charged with is not justice. When I saw the crowds of people gathering in protest it saddened me to no end that 99 % of the people protesting were black.

Here is my point & MY CALL TO ACTION. To promote unity and help put an end to racism:

When there is an injustice and black people congregate to protest, we need to join them and let the world see that the majority of whites stand together with blacks against injustice of any kind. Just step out of your comfort zone and whenever there is an issue like this don't let our black sisters & brothers stand alone! :rose:

He might not have provoked the attack. Those boys could just be psychos or racist. The stories about that case makes it sound like the white citizens are soley to blame for the racial tension and they are the only ones who are racist but I think that there are black citizens in that town who are no better. The Jena's six defenders have complained that whites get special treatment but they seem to want that same treatment instead of equal treatment judging from how they are defending those boys. If it had been a group of white boys who had attacked a black boy, they along with Sharpton and Jackson would be screaming for justice.

I know it's not going to happen but I hope those boys get punished to the fullest extent of the law and if they don't should be sued by their victim's family. I think they are as vile as white people who committ hate crimes against blacks.

[Angie1960]

He might not have provoked the attack. Those boys could just be psychos or racist. The stories about that case makes it sound like the white citizens are soley to blame for the racial tension and they are the only ones who are racist but I think that there are black citizens in that town who are no better. The Jena's six defenders have complained that whites get special treatment but they seem to want that same treatment instead of equal treatment judging from how they are defending those boys. If it had been a group of white boys who had attacked a black boy, they along with Sharpton and Jackson would be screaming for justice.

I know it's not going to happen but I hope those boys get punished to the fullest extent of the law and if they don't should be sued by their victim's family. I think they are as vile as white people who committ hate crimes against blacks.

Yes they would be screaming for the justice that has yet to be fair & balanced even now in 2007. Ignorant whites have been picking on blacks for hundreds of years. A dog can only be kicked so long before it bites. Works the same for people. Nooses being hung on what was viewed as a white only tree is so vile, let alone the day to day experiences the blacks in Jena had to endure. This was in response to the treatment they had received, it has nothing to do with them being Psychos.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be punished - but its a case of six boys ganging up on one and hurting him and I don't believe for a second he was just an innocent bystander. Believe me if they wanted to kill him - he'd be dead. It's not attempted murder, it's assault & battery, pure & simple.

We have progressed far beyond that in this thread - if you want to rant about the Jena Six - there is a thread for that. :rolleyes:

[Crystal_Ann]

Yes they would be screaming for the justice that has yet to be fair & balanced even now in 2007. Ignorant whites have been picking on blacks for hundreds of years. A dog can only be kicked so long before it bites. Works the same for people. Nooses being hung on what was viewed as a white only tree is so vile, let alone the day to day experiences the blacks in Jena had to endure. This was in response to the treatment they had received, it has nothing to do with them being Psychos.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be punished - but its a case of six boys ganging up on one and hurting him and I don't believe for a second he was just an innocent bystander. Believe me if they wanted to kill him - he'd be dead. It's not attempted murder, it's assault & battery, pure & simple.

We have progressed far beyond that in this thread - if you want to rant about the Jena Six - there is a thread for that. :rolleyes:

It's not necessary to be rude and immature for that matter with the rolling eyes icon. If you only wanted to hear the opinions that are the same as yours, you could have said that or better yet included it in your post when you posted this topic. If you had I wouldn't have posted in this thread. This is a message board, it's going to have different opinions.

If a group of black people beat the crap of someone you loved, would you just write it off as the result of whites picking on blacks for hundreds of years and in response to the treatment they recieved. The hanging of the nooses was disgusting (and the people responsible should have been punished and required to get therapy since only a disturbed mind would do that) but so is attacking someone. What happened hundreds of years ago can't be changed, it can only be learned from. Blacks and whites should get the same rights and treatment which includes justice.

[Angie1960]

Blacks and whites should get the same rights and treatment which includes justice.

That's my point.

Thank you!

[Crystal_Ann]

That's my point.

Thank you!

Then I misundersood you and I apologize because I thought you where implying by some of your comments that when a black person attacks a white person they are responding to the treatment blacks have recieved by the whites who are racist and that their victim must have provoked them which isn't equal treatment.

I should have worded my comment that I hope the Jena 6 get punished to the fullest extent of the law that they get the same punishment that a white person would get (which these days I think is the fullest extent of the law when it comes to hate crimes) for committing a hate crime and in the meantime the sick person or people who are responsable for the nooses should be searched for (if they haven't be caught) then punished severely for their actions.

[Angie1960]

No - obviously we should all be treated equally - they should be tried for assault & battery and if they are charged with a hate crime then the whites who hung the nooses should also be tried for a hate crime. I am just saying that we cannot pretend that our history is without consequeses and we can't keep our heads in the sand and pretend that the oppression and injustice doesn't still continues on a different level.

AND if the boy who was hurt is guilty of saying anything derrogatory to provoke the attack then he should be tried for a hate crime as well.

[Crystal_Ann]

I agree. I think hanging those nooses should defintely be considered a hate crime and the people involved should be tried for committing a hate crime.

As for the boy. If he did say anything derogatory, if making racist remarks are against the law in their State and people can be charged for it, I agree it should be considered a hate crime and tried as a hate crime but if not I think he should be expelled from school permanently just like an adult would be fired from their job if they a made derogatory remark.

[Wichita]

There seems to be a misunderstanding of the "hate crime" designation, and the intent of such legislation. The objective of hate crime legislation is to hold people accountable for behavior that denies a person his civil right to life,
liberty and happiness, in accordance with due process of law. Racially inappropriate speech, regardless of how ignorant, hurtful, and outright mean it may be, does not meet the elements of the offense of a hate crime in any jurisdiction I have read the statutes in. Placing nooses in a tree is inappropriate speech, and may be considered fighting words which are not protected by the 1st Amendment, but unless the hanging of the nooses actually deprived another specific person of his individual civil liberties, then it is not a hate crime by definition. The poor woman in WV was called a "******" while being raped, forced to eat human, dog, and rodent feces, commit lesbian sexual acts, and was stabbed and beaten. She was imprisoned, and hidden from anyone who came around in order to avoid her presence from becoming known. There is no doubt that she would eventually have been murdered had she not been discovered. When this crime was first reported, the information was not clear about whether it was a hate crime by definition. It is clear, now, that it definitely is a hate crime, yet the penalty for the hate crime is a maximum of ten years in prison. It is better to prosecute them for the more serious crimes, and forgo the hate crime designation because the of the disparity in the potential sentencing. Hate crimes are generally considered civil rights violations, as opposed to criminal law violations. Some states have adopted criminal hate crime statutes that have a range of penalties associated with the behavior exhibited during the criminal episode. The hate crime designation is a sentence enhancer, as opposed to a separate crime in those jurisdictions. This makes the most sense, because the criminal can receive additional penalties in association with the rape, for example. If the WV case had happened in Colorado, the hate crime designation would have been charged as a sentence enhancer, and upon a finding of guilt, the defendant(s) would have an additional 10 years to life added to their sentence, on each conviction.

The murders of the white couple in Kentucky, I can't think of their names, where 5 or six black defendants tortured and raped both of them before murdering them is not being charged as a hate crime. Since the victims did not survive, no one knows whether the killers said, "This is what we do to honkies in Kentucky." It is truly irrelevant. The bottom line is that there are people in every race and ethnic origin who are so totally antisocial that none of us are safe while they breath the same air we do. The answer is simple. Deal consistently with evil wherever it is found. Deal with it fairly, and consistently across all lines of racial and ethnic origins. When we can do that as a society, the need for hate crime legislation will no longer be necessary.

When you think about it, when people kill other people, hatred is a common denominator regardless of the other motives. Some men hate women, so they rape and murder them. Eileen Wornos hated men....Blacks hate whites, whites hate blacks, hispanics hate asians, on and on. Criminals hate cops, regardless of their color. When a cop is murdered is it a hate crime? So, if we deal with the evil of hatred on all levels, could we all be satisfied that justice is being done? In my mind, not until Christ returns. I just don't have any faith that humanity can get it right. There will always be a special circumstance, or mitigation. He is psychotic, or his parents were abusive, or he does drugs, or he is an alcoholic, or the white kid had to have said something to provoke an attack. The black kids were suffering ptsd from the remnants of slavery than ended 150 years ago. No offense, but isn't this how we justify our hatred? Where does it start and stop?

[Angie1960]

There seems to be a misunderstanding of the "hate crime" designation, and the intent of such legislation. The objective of hate crime legislation is to hold people accountable for behavior that denies a person his civil right to life,
liberty and happiness, in accordance with due process of law. Racially inappropriate speech, regardless of how ignorant, hurtful, and outright mean it may be, does not meet the elements of the offense of a hate crime in any jurisdiction I have read the statutes in. Placing nooses in a tree is inappropriate speech, and may be considered fighting words which are not protected by the 1st Amendment, but unless the hanging of the nooses actually deprived another specific person of his individual civil liberties, then it is not a hate crime by definition. The poor woman in WV was called a "******" while being raped, forced to eat human, dog, and rodent feces, commit lesbian sexual acts, and was stabbed and beaten. She was imprisoned, and hidden from anyone who came around in order to avoid her presence from becoming known. There is no doubt that she would eventually have been murdered had she not been discovered. When this crime was first reported, the information was not clear about whether it was a hate crime by definition. It is clear, now, that it definitely is a hate crime, yet the penalty for the hate crime is a maximum of ten years in prison. It is better to prosecute them for the more serious crimes, and forgo the hate crime designation because the of the disparity in the potential sentencing. Hate crimes are generally considered civil rights violations, as opposed to criminal law violations. Some states have adopted criminal hate crime statutes that have a range of penalties associated with the behavior exhibited during the criminal episode. The hate crime designation is a sentence enhancer, as opposed to a separate crime in those jurisdictions. This makes the most sense, because the criminal can receive additional penalties in association with the rape, for example. If the WV case had happened in Colorado, the hate crime designation would have been charged as a sentence enhancer, and upon a finding of guilt, the defendant(s) would have an additional 10 years to life added to their sentence, on each conviction.

The murders of the white couple in Kentucky, I can't think of their names, where 5 or six black defendants tortured and raped both of them before murdering them is not being charged as a hate crime. Since the victims did not survive, no one knows whether the killers said, "This is what we do to honkies in Kentucky." It is truly irrelevant. The bottom line is that there are people in every race and ethnic origin who are so totally antisocial that none of us are safe while they breath the same air we do. The answer is simple. Deal consistently with evil wherever it is found. Deal with it fairly, and consistently across all lines of racial and ethnic origins. When we can do that as a society, the need for hate crime legislation will no longer be necessary.

When you think about it, when people kill other people, hatred is a common denominator regardless of the other motives. Some men hate women, so they rape and murder them. Eileen Wornos hated men....Blacks hate whites, whites hate blacks, hispanics hate asians, on and on. Criminals hate cops, regardless of their color. When a cop is murdered is it a hate crime? So, if we deal with the evil of hatred on all levels, could we all be satisfied that justice is being done? In my mind, not until Christ returns. I just don't have any faith that humanity can get it right. There will always be a special circumstance, or mitigation. He is psychotic, or his parents were abusive, or he does drugs, or he is an alcoholic, or the white kid had to have said something to provoke an attack. The black kids were suffering ptsd from the remnants of slavery than ended 150 years ago. No offense, but isn't this how we justify our hatred? Where does it start and stop?

If black kids asked to sit under that tree and then nooses were hung it definately violates & threatens their civil rights. While free speech is protected, it is still against the law to falsley shout fire in a crowded building. There are also laws that say some speech can incite trouble which I believe is also punishable.

I agree with you about the hate crime being a lower class crime then say, attempted murder or murder, or rape, etc. And I agree that criminals often use excuses. But there are cases where these excuses are legitimate. If I killed someone after they molested my child - the law should take that into consideration. It would be different if I turned around and killed his child. Crimes against completely innocent victims should not be treated the same as crimes against complicit victims.

You are a cop - and while just a little crotchety, I respect you (most of the time) but you have a cop mentality, which you need to do your job. I am not a cop, I am a humanist. A very passionate humanist who tries to see all angles. And I have total mistrust when it comes to our legal system and it's treatment of minorities.

[Wichita]

Well, I think you tolerate me best after a doobie or two, but we're getting along alright. One thing is certain, we haven't had a boring coexistence. :D

We are in agreement with the aspect of freedom of speech. I said the exact same thing you said, only differently. I am not in disagreement with you on your original post, it's just not my style. I wanted to explain the intent of the hate crime statutes to people who are not familiar with the system, and may have an erroneous perception of the intent of hate crime law.

My last paragraph was a bit "crotchety", and I was not trying to harpoon you in anyway for mitigating the reason, in your mind, that the 6 black kids beat up the one white kid. I honestly didn't realize the connection. Perhaps it was a Freudian slip, but I was cynically referring to what I consider to be a huge problem in our system with the mitigation of evil. I have no faith in humanity, and I do not trust the government to protect me, in as much as it consists of humans. Yet, not all humans are untrustworthy, therefore, it follows that not all passionate humanists are untrustworthy, nor or all cops, etc. We are what we are, and that is all that we are. Yet, individually, we associate ourselves with others of like mind. It makes our lives easier to tolerate in the midst of all of the injustice and unfairness. Taking risks is exciting, and scary, and stepping outside the comfort zone to face criticism or hatred takes courage.
I respect your decision to do so. I am just not convinced that every demonstration is always justifiable simply because thousands of people think it may be. JJ and AS arrived too late in Jena to make any difference for the defendants. The appeals court had already decided that the charges and jurisdiction were unconstitutional, and therefore ordered new trials in juvenile court. Those decisions were the result of the appeal process that was in place pre-JJ,AS, and their demonstration for "justice". The appeal process is part of the system that you do not trust. If the appeal had been denied, and the others tried in adult court, I would have agreed with the demonstrations. My opinion is that JJ and AS were simply grand standing, and disrupting a local community for selfish motives. Others will disagree, and that is fine. It is what makes our nation great. The bottom line is that the injustice has been reversed, and justice has been rendered as far as the original charges, and resulting conviction are concerned. What remains is to ensure that it doesn't happen under the same jurisdiction again. Perhaps that is a good reason to for JJ and AS to continue with the demonstration. If I was convinced that was their motive, I would relax my position.

Athena explained institutional racism to me, a phenomena that I was not familiar with. What she said made sense, and I can agree that the prosecutor and the rest of the local system was guilty of it. I think the appeals court found the same thing, and wisely reversed the conviction and jurisdiction. It would appear that the local system is in need of change, which I would submit has already taken place. If I were as close minded as some might think, I would have rationalized Athena's point, and refused to change my position. I guess that sort of puts me in good company, since I, too, try to see things from all angles, although I am not a humanitarian.

[Athena]

Wichita you have made some very valid points in your posts and it was well articulated.

One thing I want to clarify is that the march was/is not too late. There are other members of the Jena 6 (3?) that are still being tried in adult court and rightfully so because of their ages. I believe the minimum age in LA is 17 (Bell was 16 at the time, thus a juvenile). However, the charges are still excessive for those in adult court. They still face up to 15 years. While I believe they should be punished, this crime does not warrant that kind of time in jail. It would only serve to harden these teens and they would have learned nothing. They were charged with what could have happened as opposed to what actually happened. I truly hope and pray that the Court shows mercy with sentencing and that is what the march should be about. What I do object to is the slogan that was adopted "Free the Jena6". IMO -- a more appropriate slogan in this case would have been "Justice for the Jena6". They did commit a crime and should pay for it.

The murders you refer to above re: the blacks on white happened in Tennessee against two white college students - Channon Christian and Christophr Newsom. Those acts were horrific however as Wichita said we don't know if they were hate crimes because they did not live to tell what was said. It may come out that they were but IMO at least for now, they were two grusome, horrific murders that started out by car-jacking of an SUV and they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. These people were also feared by other blacks living in the neighborhood so they could have been just sick and perverted people who don't deserve to breathe the same air we do period. We don't know that they were carjacked and kidnapped just because they were white. Unfortunately crimes like this happen to black people too by other criminal blacks.

Sorry -- I don't remember who posted above that the Jena 6 should be charged with a hate crime. Like Wichita said, it appears that some don't understand the hate laws as motive is definitely the primary factor in determining whether one should be charged with a hate crime. In the Jena6 case, prior to the attack, Barker did taunt one of the teens re: an earlier beating he had received at a party he tried to crash. While Barker's action in no way warranted a six-on-one attack, there was provacation and he was not just a student randomly selected just because he was white. Had he been attacked without a prior incident (taunting) then it may have been considered a hate crime. A hate crime has to meet certain elements and this case does not meet those elements.

Re: the boys hanging the nooses -- the only thing I can say is I hope they learned a valuable lesson. I'm not sure they actually understood what they were doing and is just a sign of immaturity however if they could have been charged with a hate crime; they would have had to serve up to 10 years in jail and IMO again this would have been overcharging because they are juveniles and juveniles do stupid things. They did get punished by being suspended from school and forced to attend an alternative school away from their friends and had to attend counselling. It was determined by the US Justice Dept that there was nothing in their backgrounds to determine they had deliberately hung these nooses to antagonize blacks nor are there any hate crime laws specifically geared towards juveniles; thus they could not be charged with a hate crime.

I blame the school system for writing the hanging of the nooses off as a prank. They are the adults here and a message should have been sent loud and clear that zero tolerance for real or perceived threats would not be tolerated. This is where the institutionalized racism comes in. I believe some of the people in Jena have such ingrained beliefs and habits, they do not even realize they are biased and these beliefs would have an effect on the juveniles tht hung the nooses as well. Their belief system has just never been challenged before thus the whites in Jena saying there were no racial problems while the blacks overwhelmingly said there are.

A hanging noose IMO should be treated no differently than burning a cross on someone's lawn or placing a swastika on Jewish property. They are all intimidating period and I do not consider hanging a noose, burning a cross, placing a swastika or burning the American flag as free speech; there has to be boundaries and that is where the hate crime laws come in.

JMHO

[Wichita]

Thanks for the update. I guess Angie is right to the extent that I have a "cop" mentality, at least about demonstrations. They are no fun for us. Anything can happen, so I generally have a negative feeling about them. It comes back to a principle of leadership when one tries to do a right thing in a wrong way. Not all marches turn into civil/criminal disobedience, but the potential is there because of the emotional "speeches" by these two leaders, especially Sharpton. It's a pretty dynamic situation, and the elements for a "perfect storm" are all present in one place at the right time. All it takes is a small catalyst, and then it turns to rioting. I feel the same way about demonstrations by the opponents of abortion at clinics. I do appreciate your insight. Who said you can't teach an old dog?

[Angie1960]

WOW you guys - those were great posts! Wichita I really cringed before reading your response I thought I was IN FOR IT! :)

Athena - you are SO RIGHT ON!!! I can't even elaborate, perfectly said!!!

:beer:

[Angie1960]

Well, I think you tolerate me best after a doobie or two, but we're getting along alright. One thing is certain, we haven't had a boring coexistence. :D

:punch:

Very funny - you are correct sir!

[Wichita]

One of the things I have learned on this board is that my comments are sometimes ambiguous when I didn't intend for them to be. As such, they come off like I'm criticizing instead of discussing a particular point. After reading through my post, I realized that it was easy for you to conclude that I was taking you to task for the comment that the white kid had to have said something that provoked the black kids. There are a lot of very bright people on this board, and they are causing me to use my brain to make my point instead of just making off the cuff statements. It is having a positive affect on my life. I've noticed that when I don't take the time to really think about my statements, I come off as, well, "crotchety". ;) Thanks for your comments!

[Athena]

Wichita -- That's where the question mark on the keyboard comes in. When one does not understand what another poster says or a post is unclear - questions should be asked.

I do applaud everyone on this thread that could even actually discuss racial issues without personal attacks. Says alot about the posters here. Also says alot about you that you would even admit that you found your own posts ambiguous

On another board that I have recently posted on the Jena 6 has turned into a racist free for all and because of posters like you I enjoy posting at CL so much more. :)

[Seashell]

Wichita and Athena i applaud your posts they made an excellent read!
this place is so civilized that its a pleasure for me to be a member on here, well done. :rose:
ps. that includes you too Mishelle ;)

[Angie1960]

Yes - it is nice isn't it? To find a board with brains? It's hard in general to find intelligent people to converse with. Especially if certain circumstances keep one from having much of a social life. I'm a tired, custodial, grandmother who really doesn't have anytime or energy for a social life after working all week and making sure Hannah gets her necessary social & fun time. I have turned into a television addict. :o

CL has really become my community.

[Wichita]

I'm having quite a chuckle remembering what my dad used to say to me growing up: "Boy! If you had a brain, you'd take it out and play with it!" I still haven't thought of a clever rebuttal after all these years.....:shrug:

[Angie1960]

I'm having quite a chuckle remembering what my dad used to say to me growing up: "Boy! If you had a brain, you'd take it out and play with it!" I still haven't thought of a clever rebuttal after all these years.....:shrug:

How about -

Well that's because some of us have brains that long to be exercised

[Wichita]

Hear, Hear....

[Angie1960]

That was my suggestion for the clever rebuttal you could never think of...

I thought maybe that might work.

But maybe it should be...

Well that's because some of us have brains that enjoy being exercised (I think that works better)

[Rob.]

While racism is stupid at best, it does not bother me as I'm not effected myself.

[Angie1960]

While racism is stupid at best, it does not bother me as I'm not effected myself.

While self absorbtion, apathy, sociopathy, and psycopathy are the roads to ruin at best, it bothers me as I am not like you and have the capacity to realize that we are all one and what effects one effects us all.

Thanks for visiting - hope you don't get a headache from thinkin' too hard. :tongue:

[livelyliz48]

ok as a black female i have been on the receiving end of some racist remarks but then i make the decision to handle it, not only as a lady but as someone who thinks more highly of herself than to let some ugly words provoke her into a violent confrontation. as a teenager yes i would fight when that word was used but as an adult, i hold my head up and walk away. i'm better than that. what annoys me most is when i see black men and women using racism as an excuse to get out of punishment for heinous crimes. i''m sorry some of you may not agree but if you do the crime you should do the time. words do hurt but fist hurt more and can cause much more damage. i mean to me what hurts a racist more is watching his/her own race tell them how ignorant they are.
i was just watching on the local news how the klan has a store and on the sign they have posted it says No Nappies and then they have a black face with a line across it. i was overjoyed to see the people speaking out were not mainly black but white. to me that was the best thing i could see and it made me smile.
racism is not only in the white race though but i also see alot of it in the black race. so i think it's time the ignorance stopped on both sides
jesse jackson needs to get a job and al sharpton or sharpley whomever needs to comb his hair

[livelyliz48]

oh by the way i'm not an african american. i remember back in the day it was offensive to call us africans.
anyway i wasn't born in africa. i was born in america. you can call me a southern american cuz i was born in the south. i wasn't born anywhere near africa. also africans have different cultures and the majority of the black race here wouldn't last a day in africa.

[Angie1960]

what annoys me most is when i see black men and women using racism as an excuse to get out of punishment for heinous crimes. i''m sorry some of you may not agree but if you do the crime you should do the time. words do hurt but fist hurt more and can cause much more damage. i mean to me what hurts a racist more is watching his/her own race tell them how ignorant they are.

i was just watching on the local news how the klan has a store and on the sign they have posted it says No Nappies and then they have a black face with a line across it. i was overjoyed to see the people speaking out were not mainly black but white. to me that was the best thing i could see and it made me smile.

jesse jackson needs to get a job and al sharpton or sharpley whomever needs to comb his hair

LOL - That is right! Like MLK said judge by the content of character no the color of one's skin -

That was the whole point of this post - I'm glad it made you happy to see it was the whites speaking out - that's what we all need to do - come to the aid or help in the fight against racism TOGETHER - we can't fight it seperately.

[AlsoKnownAs]

I don't use ethic terms to others. I try to treat everyone with respect. I can't help but laugh when I became aware of what the ethnic slur wasfor myself...A Cauciasn. AKA

Definition 2 here if you want to see :biggrin:

http://www.tiny.cc/6O8nO

[Bluefox]

I'd say it's quite simple to treat everyone the way you want to be treated, as for the numbskulls who are beyond teaching wherever they come from, it's their loss! :seeya:

[Angie1960]

I don't use ethic terms to others. I try to treat everyone with respect. I can't help but laugh when I became aware of what the ethnic slur wasfor myself...A Cauciasn. AKA

Definition 2 here if you want to see :biggrin:

http://www.tiny.cc/6O8nO

That reminds me of Rene Hicks fantastic comedy routine "Ni... is just a word"

It is the most hilarious thing I ever heard - talks about crackers as a snack food and if the reverse was true..

http://www.amazon.com/Lets-Roll-Rene-Hicks/dp/B00011HEXO

It's #14 and you can download it - funny funny funny!

Although some may be offended -

Personally detest the n word and I think it is disrespectful for even blacks to use it - I think it is degrading but I really don't feel I have any right to decide what is morally correct in a situation where I haven't been the victim of it - sometimes I think maybe the line in the sand where blacks can use the words and whites never should is a way of owning it - I don't really know.

Anyway - The way Rene Hicks handles it is ingenious!

[Wichita]

It's a good one, and I'll use it next time. Back in those days, if I had said something in rebuttal, it would not have been pretty. Things have changed, as we hope they will.

[livelyliz48]

to me it's even more disgusting to hear a black person use the n word. i mean the rev. martin luther king didn't risk his life just so we could go around calling each other the names who so hated.

[Angie1960]

to me it's even more disgusting to hear a black person use the n word. i mean the rev. martin luther king didn't risk his life just so we could go around calling each other the names who so hated.


Yes it self degrading! Makes me sad. But I'm white so I still don't feel I have a right to say how a black person responds to that word. But I can still have an opinion.

Have you ever heard Rene Hick's do her routine?

[Athena]

to me it's even more disgusting to hear a black person use the n word. i mean the rev. martin luther king didn't risk his life just so we could go around calling each other the names who so hated.

You are so right. I grew up in a predominantly black neighborhood and remember how parents would treat that word as if it were a curse word. I don't know what has happened that it is used so freely now especially by those in the hip-hop culture. I often think that perhaps they really don't know how offensive that word really is or about its origination. I hope the movement that has started to try to cease its use works but it won't unless some of these hip-hop artists and comedians step up to the plate and clearly reject it. I just don't get it. :shrug:

[lexcat]

I am not by any means racist, BUT, the Jena 6 issue has become about color and not justice. I truly believe that if it had been reversed, and it had been 6 white people that had beat up a black guy, that people like Al Sharpton would be calling for life in prison. The same thing applies to the Wilson guy that was just released. Some black people are saying that the only reason he was put in there was because he was black, and that is not the case at all. The courts today are trying so hard to crack down on sex crimes that sometimes they get carried away, and that was the case. I have no problem standing beside anyone to fight an injustice, and agree that everyone should do so, no matter what race, age, sex, etc. But people need to make sure that they are fighting for true justice, not just a color war.

[Athena]

Unfortunately until justice in reality becomes color-blind race will always enter into the injustice that some blacks, other minorities and poor whites do receive.

There is a Jena 6 thread on the board -- and you will notice that most if not all do believe that the Jena 6 needs to be punished as they did indeed commit a crime and nothing warranted six teens beating on one. However, putting teens in jail for 15-22 years certainly is not the answer as the charges are excessive. Murderers and rapists (no matter what color) don't even get that kind of jail time.

You will also note that most blacks do not perceive Al Shartpon as their leader, however, without him speaking out for the black community, alot of what has been uncovered in the justice system would simply have been swept under the rug. While I do not agree with everything he says or does and do agree that sometimes he needs to know what to let go and pick his battles more carefully -- he is needed more often than not especially for poor blacks who don't have the means for someone else to speak for them.

Not all crimes are racial -- and Wilson got caught up in an archaic law meant for true pedophiles/child abusers not teens who have underage sex. The DA abused his power in this case by finding the loophole that oral sex could be considered "deviant". He knew exactly what he was doing but I do wonder if the same would have happened if the kid were white. You cannot help but question it and wonder why the DA chose to abuse his power. Again until the justice system truly becomes color-blind we will continue to see the race card played time and time again. In some cases truly warranted and in others just an excuse, but it will happen. :shrug:

[livelyliz48]

is 15 to 22 years really too much for the one who is on his 6th offense. he's a habitual offender. he doesn't need to walk off with a slap on the risk. and think about how bad this could have turned out. someone could have been killed. when you gang up on someone it can get out of hand. if they want to carry themselves as criminal elements then treat them as such.
does anyone know how the fight was stopped? or did they think the guy was dead?
i'm sorry i just feel it's time for us as black people to stand up and give those who fought for our freedom something to really be proud of. i'm sick of seeing black females and males on the news for committing crimes. don't get me wrong i'm not saying no other race commits crimes. but i just look at the price some of my relatives paid so that we could have the same rights and others and i get upset because so many are acting like the animals we were treated as in slavery days.
now we no longer are enslaved by the white race but we seem to be inslaving ourselves to drugs, alcohol and violence.
i call for black men and women to step up and stand with our brothers and sisters of all races and let's make a difference. let's play the right race card, let's play the human race card and fight for victims of rapes, murders, let's fight a fight that is worth fighting for. not with fist and weapons but with knowledge and words of intelligence.

[Angie1960]

is 15 to 22 years really too much for the one who is on his 6th offense. he's a habitual offender. he doesn't need to walk off with a slap on the risk. and think about how bad this could have turned out. someone could have been killed. when you gang up on someone it can get out of hand. if they want to carry themselves as criminal elements then treat them as such.
does anyone know how the fight was stopped? or did they think the guy was dead?
i'm sorry i just feel it's time for us as black people to stand up and give those who fought for our freedom something to really be proud of. i'm sick of seeing black females and males on the news for committing crimes. don't get me wrong i'm not saying no other race commits crimes. but i just look at the price some of my relatives paid so that we could have the same rights and others and i get upset because so many are acting like the animals we were treated as in slavery days.
now we no longer are enslaved by the white race but we seem to be inslaving ourselves to drugs, alcohol and violence.
i call for black men and women to step up and stand with our brothers and sisters of all races and let's make a difference. let's play the right race card, let's play the human race card and fight for victims of rapes, murders, let's fight a fight that is worth fighting for. not with fist and weapons but with knowledge and words of intelligence.

Right ON! I look at what you describe (black on black crime, drugs, violence) as kind of a post traumatic stress response. If you look at cultures like they are people, they all go through certain transformations. IMHO - The black culture in this country is like an abused child who has grown up to become an angry rebellious teenager. And like rebellious teenagers, some will move through there process more easily than others. They will embarrass each other, react to their painful issues and ultimately find their rightful place in society. All people & cultures mature - but I believe we have a culture here, that "the powers that be" have put through the ringer and we can't expect all blacks to be as mature and balanced as well, "Lovely" Liz. Just as children react differently to abuse so do the people of transitioning cultures.

I agree - with you Liz we all need to stand together. Stronger blacks & whites need to help less advantaged blacks and whites to move through what I hope is a transitional period and one day we will look back on this time as a kind of birth pain.

[Wichita]

I cannot express how much respect you just earned from me and my wife! What you said is the absolute truth! My ancestors were from England, Ireland, and Germany. They intermarried with Cherokees, and we are a mixture of all those cultures and blood lines. However, just as you said, we are Americans! I have no desire to live anywhere else, and I don't give any credit for any of my character attributes, nor any of my weaknesses for that matter, to my ancestors. You're a breath of fresh air....

[Wichita]

Spoken like a true narcissist....

[Angie1960]

Spoken like a true narcissist....

Wichita, could you please use the tools available to direct your comments, or indicate your reference points? It is a much more clear & direct response.

...?

[Angie1960]

One of the things I have learned on this board is that my comments are sometimes ambiguous when I didn't intend for them to be. As such, they come off like I'm criticizing instead of discussing a particular point. After reading through my post, I realized that it was easy for you to conclude that I was taking you to task for the comment that the white kid had to have said something that provoked the black kids. There are a lot of very bright people on this board, and they are causing me to use my brain to make my point instead of just making off the cuff statements. It is having a positive affect on my life. I've noticed that when I don't take the time to really think about my statements, I come off as, well, "crotchety". ;) Thanks for your comments!

:seeya:

[Angie1960]

Many Blacks See Little Racial Progress
Whites Nearly Twice As Likely To See Black Gains

http://www.knbc.com/news/14585463/detail.html

[Angie1960]

Wichita, could you please use the tools available to direct your comments, or indicate your reference points? It is a much more clear & direct response.

...?

Well Wichita you haven't responded or justified your extremely rude remarks so while its been fun & its been real - it aint been real fun :chicken:

If, as I believe, your comment is to me then all I can say is your hostility is telling. And your ignorance is showing. You have no idea about my motivations or intents, you don't have the capacity to absorb certain information and put together a thought on something like that before your hostile impulses take over. Interesting qualities for a cop.

I was ready to have any conversation that may have come up from my post but you choose to slight someone and then run out of the room. Very mature.

I have my reasons for being empathetic to the cause - and believe me there is nothing narcissistic about it, although it is selfish, as it is in my best interest and those of all, to promote unity and help the underprivileged. No matter how it is "spoken." Though that seems often to be lost on you.

"Talk to the Hand..."

[Angie1960]

http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/2446/t/1366/petition.jsp?petition_KEY=12


STOP Defaming Our Women by respecting all African American Women and not describing them in profane and derogatory terms

STOP Degrading Our Community by not supporting hurtful images that portray negative images of the African American community

STOP Denigrating Our History by not supporting words and media that diminishes our proud history and insults our ancestors

STOP Accepting Disrespect by not patronizing companies and artists that put forth demeaning and disrespectful images in our community

START Standing Up by standing up against anyone who diminishes the capacity of young people

START the Diversity by supporting balance and diversity of content in the entertainment industry to create positive role models for young people and by demanding more African Americans and other people of color in decision making positions in the entertainment industry

[Angie1960]

http://www.naacp.org/programs/economic/call_to_action/index.html

Re:Target & Dillards
---------------------------------------------------------

http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/2446/t/1369/petition.jsp?petition_KEY=3

To Majority Leader Reid and Speaker Pelosi:

I am joining the NAACP in urging you to lead Congress in providing much needed relief and rehabilitation for the Gulf Coast region devastated by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita in the FY2008 Federal Budget.

Estimates show that as many as 300,000 still have not been able to return to their homes, and 80,000 are still living in FEMA trailers that have unacceptably high levels of formaldehyde. And yet the President's budget proposal does not provide adequate funding for many of the key programs that provide housing, education and health care assistance in the region.

Among other things, the President's budget does not renew the $500 million Social Service Block Grant to help hurricane ravaged areas of the Gulf Coast fund child welfare, employment services, and other state and local social programs. And neither the President's budget nor any proposals from Congress include additional funds for The Road Home, a program designed to help those displaced by Katrina and Rita with housing issues, even though this program was forced to stop accepting applications on July 31st because of a $5 billion shortfall.

Congress has an opportunity to act with conviction and help hundreds of thousands of Americans put their lives back together. We are counting on you to lead the way.

[Wichita]

Sorry. I have tried to learn how to do quotes, but I'm sort of computer unskilled. I was referencing Rob's comment. The little line connecting my comment was intercepted by yours. I wasn't referring to your comment. Can you send me a private message on how to do quotes?

[Wichita]

I could lose my temper, and verbally rip you a new one. I could get all morally indignant, and take advantage of your misunderstanding to try and save face. But, to what end? What good would it do? The truth is, I like you. Some of your ideas are totally foreign to me, but that doesn't make you somehow worth less than I consider myself. As a matter of fact, I have learned a lot from you. I don't always agree with you, but that's why we come here, isn't it? A little healthy conversation? I threw the fly into the riffles, and the wrong trout rose to the bait! Besides, it was my inability to properly use the tools that helped you jump to the wrong conclusion. I accept my responsibility for that. I just asked FW the other day how to do quotes. I am still trying to learn....

Anyway, if you have your mind made up, and you want to believe all that crap you said, I understand. I accepted the fact that a lot of people would not like me because of how I make a living. It's all good. I'm the first to admit that I have too many faults. I may even have a character flaw. But, cowardice isn't one of them. You have no idea how much restraint I have used in this exchange....:cool:

[Angie1960]

I could lose my temper, and verbally rip you a new one. I could get all morally indignant, and take advantage of your misunderstanding to try and save face. But, to what end? What good would it do? The truth is, I like you. Some of your ideas are totally foreign to me, but that doesn't make you somehow worth less than I consider myself. As a matter of fact, I have learned a lot from you. I don't always agree with you, but that's why we come here, isn't it? A little healthy conversation? I threw the fly into the riffles, and the wrong trout rose to the bait! Besides, it was my inability to properly use the tools that helped you jump to the wrong conclusion. I accept my responsibility for that. I just asked FW the other day how to do quotes. I am still trying to learn....

Anyway, if you have your mind made up, and you want to believe all that crap you said, I understand. I accepted the fact that a lot of people would not like me because of how I make a living. It's all good. I'm the first to admit that I have too many faults. I may even have a character flaw. But, cowardice isn't one of them. You have no idea how much restraint I have used in this exchange....:cool:

Well I do apologize. I am sorry I jumped to the conclusion that you were referring to my post. I wasn't completely sure so I left the post about using quotes and waited - when there was no response, that is when I assumed I was right. You have now gained MY respect in your response and I appreciate your words.

QUOTES ARE EASY: when you are reading the person's post that you are responding to click on the quote button. It will automatically place the post in the response window - then you go to the bottom at the first new space and type your response.

:beer:

[Angie1960]

Well I do apologize. I am sorry I jumped to the conclusion that you were referring to my post. I wasn't completely sure so I left the post about using quotes and waited - when there was no response, that is when I assumed I was right. You have now gained MY respect in your response and I appreciate your words.

QUOTES ARE EASY: when you are reading the person's post that you are responding to click on the quote button. It will automatically place the post in the response window - then you go to the bottom at the first new space and type your response.

:beer:

Also wanted to note that everything I said in my response (that made you use so much restraint :) ) was said under the belief that the post was directed to my comments and yes as you can imagine I was offended.

My original post came from my Jungian nature, Jungian philosophy basically being, that we are all one, everything, is everything, all incompasses each other, and everything is played out by archetypes and in symbolism.

Now with that said, I jump to my Christian nature and remember how this all began at the tower of Babel, Babble - confusion, separatism in language, misunderstandings as the consequence of following one bad man.

I think this lack of clear communication, that God took from us as "punishment?" was actually a way of splitting the people up into tribes and allowing us to be influenced by a wider range of "prophets" or "leaders." While he took away the ability for us to fully cooperate with each other as a whole, he gave us personal responsibilty to understand God's word.

In an earlier post I talked about our past tribal natures and our evolutionary mission to move on to group conciessness - which I think is where we are intended to be eventually.

There: Jungian Pychology, Judai/Chistian/Islamic Religion and Evolution all co-mingling politely in a single post. :rose:

[Wichita]

I understand, Angie. I could have interpreted it the same way, and we are from two different worlds. Please believe me when I tell you that I bear you no malice, and I have no desire to hurt your feelings. I could even be wrong about Rob. That is what I was trying to do...get a response from him. I want to explore the possibilities.

I appreciate your willingness to call me on the carpet if I am wrong, and your strength of character to admit a mistake of your own. I was commenting to Rob. I would love to be so insulated from life that such trivialities as racism never affect me. We're Ok, Angie. Thanks for the note....

Have you ever heard of the Enneagram? I found this book at Borders called "Personality Types" by Riso/Hudson. These guys have spent several years assessing personality types of all of humanity, regardless of culture. They mention Jung, and compare their thesis with part of his theories. This particular "system" of self analysis, and the ability to determine the personality types of others, has helped me more than any book other than the bible. Especially as it relates to my own strengths and weaknesses. You can find it on Amazon, used for 4 or five bucks. It is very,very interesting, and it has a spiritual side that is not relegated to Christianity per se. It's a great book. Let me know if you decide to get it. I can help you understand some of the concepts sooner than trying to learn it on your own. It will save time by shortening the learning curve. Don't take this wrong, I'm not saying you need help, I'm just responding to your comments about Jung, and other psychological, philosophical, and theological interests.

[Angie1960]

I understand, Angie. I could have interpreted it the same way, and we are from two different worlds. Please believe me when I tell you that I bear you no malice, and I have no desire to hurt your feelings. I could even be wrong about Rob. That is what I was trying to do...get a response from him. I want to explore the possibilities.

I appreciate your willingness to call me on the carpet if I am wrong, and your strength of character to admit a mistake of your own. I was commenting to Rob. I would love to be so insulated from life that such trivialities as racism never affect me. We're Ok, Angie. Thanks for the note....

Have you ever heard of the Enneagram? I found this book at Borders called "Personality Types" by Riso/Hudson. These guys have spent several years assessing personality types of all of humanity, regardless of culture. They mention Jung, and compare their thesis with part of his theories. This particular "system" of self analysis, and the ability to determine the personality types of others, has helped me more than any book other than the bible. Especially as it relates to my own strengths and weaknesses. You can find it on Amazon, used for 4 or five bucks. It is very,very interesting, and it has a spiritual side that is not relegated to Christianity per se. It's a great book. Let me know if you decide to get it. I can help you understand some of the concepts sooner than trying to learn it on your own. It will save time by shortening the learning curve. Don't take this wrong, I'm not saying you need help, I'm just responding to your comments about Jung, and other psychological, philosophical, and theological interests.


I will look into it for sure - thanks!

[Angie1960]

Nooses Found At Cal State Fullerton Prior To Anti-Hate Rally

http://www.knbc.com/news/14615520/detail.html?treets=la&tid=2658082304813&tml=la_9am&tmi=la_9am_1_11000311162007&ts=H

[lexcat]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/16/justice.rally/index.html

[Angie1960]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/16/justice.rally/index.html

http://www.theolympian.com/national/story/273516.html

Thanks for that link lexcat, here is another with photos - where we can see little or few white faces in the crowd - pity.

I am trying to find links to activism, organized rallies, etc around the country to post here so that we could join in at local events - If anyone knows of any - let me know.

Thanks!

[lexcat]

http://www.theolympian.com/national/story/273516.html

Thanks for that link lexcat, here is another with photos - where we can see little or few white faces in the crowd - pity.

I am trying to find links to activism, organized rallies, etc around the country to post here so that we could join in at local events - If anyone knows of any - let me know.

Thanks!
That is a great idea! if i find anything, i will post it.

[butterflys1]

When I heard from the DA that this was not a race thing I felt that , this man needed to be slapped. Those guys who stood up and said enough is enough do not deserve jail time. The boys who thought that was funny was wrong. It was uncalled for to say at least. They deserve to hear the jail door slam behind them. Where i grew up those white boys, yes, I am white, would have been lucky to have woke up two days later after having there heads banged on the groud a few hundred times.

[SparklePlenty]

This is my viewpoint on a problem in the city I live. There are crimes committed by both blacks and whites but the huge majority are by blacks.
Car-jackings, purse snatchings, home and business burglaries, murder, shop lifting, etc. If you ride through any neighborhood that is predominantly black, you will see all their windows and doors have burglar bars installed. Nothing is left in the carports because it won't remain there long. The city is populated by about an even number of blacks and whites. Of course there are many other races. I don't know why it's this way but the facts reflect badly on the black race.

[protectkidz]

I'm responding to the original poster.

I agree totally with all you've said.

But a change to the name of the thread maybe? Something like "Calling on People of All Color"?

But the sentiment of the thread is appreciated. :)

[protectkidz]

This is my viewpoint on a problem in the city I live. There are crimes committed by both blacks and whites but the huge majority are by blacks.
Car-jackings, purse snatchings, home and business burglaries, murder, shop lifting, etc. If you ride through any neighborhood that is predominantly black, you will see all their windows and doors have burglar bars installed. Nothing is left in the carports because it won't remain there long. The city is populated by about an even number of blacks and whites. Of course there are many other races. I don't know why it's this way but the facts reflect badly on the black race.

I have a good idea why it's this way, and our country and its citizens needs to take a very good look at it and decide:

Where do we really want our tax dollars to go?

How can we help those who have the greatest challenges, and I mean really help them?

Why do we continually turn our backs on those in our own country who need help, but try to solve the rest of the world's problems (even when we're not wanted)?

All cities are different, and there are many colors and cultures, but in my opinion the most crime occurs in those areas that have the least amount of money - and it don't matter what color you are, poor is poor and there's a whole set of problems just with that.

imo, of course.

[Angie1960]

This is my viewpoint on a problem in the city I live. There are crimes committed by both blacks and whites but the huge majority are by blacks.
Car-jackings, purse snatchings, home and business burglaries, murder, shop lifting, etc. If you ride through any neighborhood that is predominantly black, you will see all their windows and doors have burglar bars installed. Nothing is left in the carports because it won't remain there long. The city is populated by about an even number of blacks and whites. Of course there are many other races. I don't know why it's this way but the facts reflect badly on the black race.

Try this experiment - line up children of all colors, feed, love and educate some and then kick, starve and discriminate against the others. Wait till they grow up then see which ones commit more crimes. It doesn't matter what color they are - it matters how they are treated.

Do you think black kids from depressed, gang infested neighborhoods with liquor stores on every corner have the same advantages as white kids who go to private schools? And what about the white kids who grow up in poverty and are mistreated - they commit more crimes then the white kids who were treated right and are "middle class."

If you reverse the situations the white kids would be the ones to grow up in gangs and commit more crimes.

So then what about the black mothers who work hard and try to provide a good life for their children - what a challenge!! When these kids are virtually forced into gangs or scared not to carry a gun because everbody else is and there are crack & meth dealers on every corner. How their hearts must break into a thousand pieces, feeling so helpless and unable to make up for the imbalance and shortcomings of our society!

Take a rich, educated black family and a poor uneducated white family - which kids do you think will excel???

[Angie1960]

I'm responding to the original poster.

I agree totally with all you've said.

But a change to the name of the thread maybe? Something like "Calling on People of All Color"?

But the sentiment of the thread is appreciated. :)

Yes I named it calling all whites because that is what i am doing - Whites need to take some responsibility and help to unify this country - I am white and I am calling on other whites to join blacks in rallies & demonstrations so that the world can see us cry out TOGETHER. All colors are welcome of course and encouraged to do the same - but this is personal for me.

Thanks for your comments :rose:

[SparklePlenty]

Try this experiment - line up children of all colors, feed, love and educate some and then kick, starve and discriminate against the others. Wait till they grow up then see which ones commit more crimes. It doesn't matter what color they are - it matters how they are treated.

Do you think black kids from depressed, gang infested neighborhoods with liquor stores on every corner have the same advantages as white kids who go to private schools? And what about the white kids who grow up in poverty and are mistreated - they commit more crimes then the white kids who were treated right and are "middle class."

If you reverse the situations the white kids would be the ones to grow up in gangs and commit more crimes.

So then what about the black mothers who work hard and try to provide a good life for their children - what a challenge!! When these kids are virtually forced into gangs or scared not to carry a gun because everbody else is and there are crack & meth dealers on every corner. How their hearts must break into a thousand pieces, feeling so helpless and unable to make up for the imbalance and shortcomings of our society!

Take a rich, educated black family and a poor uneducated white family - which kids do you think will excel???

I believe only a lot of time will change the situation. At least a few generations. The civil rights laws must have removed some oppression that blacks had suffered but the results is that they seem to have gone down hill morally. They have opportunities for better schools and better jobs but a great many won't take that route. I have the thought that when the civil rights laws were passed, a great number of blacks took this to mean they were free to do whatever they wanted to do. Morally or immorally. This same thing happened after the American Civil War ended so maybe it's history repeating itself.

[Mother HEN]

(I used to use "Sparkle Plenty" as a pseud. The SparklePlenty now posting is not me.)

[LindaA]

To live in a complex world such as ours it takes the combined wisdom of all races, all cultures, all people. How much poorer we would all be if we regarded as valid only those contributions made be people just like us.

[Angie1960]

To live in a complex world such as ours it takes the combined wisdom of all races, all cultures, all people. How much poorer we would all be if we regarded as valid only those contributions made be people just like us.

Thank you, you are right on - this I agree with you on! :rose:

[Mostunique]

Now I am aware that some of my views are rather conraversial and thus may cause some minor offense, I would like to say now that this is not my intention but your inability to fully grasp what I am trying to say so in the end any offense caused is entirely the fault of the reader and not myself.

With the disclaimer out of the way let me begin. Being British, middle class and whiter than a snowman with hemophillia has often led to me being on the recieving end of accusations of why there is inequality in society for all reasons, and not just for race, class, gender, religion...I could go on but i doubt anyone here is interested in the sociology of the matter (this may not be the same in the US but seeing as that's my experience I'll try to apply it).

Now, this is not going to descend into being a 'feel sorry for me I'm white' speech as some may be thinking by now but I am going to say I am both sympathetic and ambivilant to the plights of various ethnics groups at the same time, so I admire the efforts of all races taking the time and effort to help each other when in need. But on the other hand, it seems strange to me that when you described in your origonal post, and I quote with the copy and paste buttons.

"When I see injustice of any kind it hurts. When I see injustice done by racists to blacks it kills me. I agree that the Jena six should be punished for fighting/beating this white boy but there is NO WAY that he didn't say something to provoke the attack "

Now, its a little worrying when you start saying that all victims who are white are guilty of something and had it coming...that's a raceist comment in itself (granted that the person who wrote this is white and its against white people so I doubt it's gonna cause any large uproar or civil rights movement) but then earlier you imply that by simply being black...and so I'm guessing that this will also apply to all other ethnic minorities as well, are all innocent victims of a cruel and unjust system. Granted...some (and probably many) are, but some also follow your description of the typical white person, just as it would be right to assume this applies to all races, including us the 'white devils'.

And when you move onto how we should all join hands and protest together, its an admirable thing to do...in theory. But as we all know theory has a habbit of collapseing like an inflatable chair with a fat kid on it. Lets go with the example of the civil rights movement with Martain Luther King, if he had been substituted by a white man who said exactly the same things and held the exact same beliefs (so a white MLK is what I'm getting at here) would they have still been successful? Probably not, part of what makes these single race protests so powerful in both a visual and a moral sense is that it shows the solidarity and integrity of THAT group, if they decided to throw in a couple hundred white people, some asians to be completly PC...it would have watered the effect down, and as a result...as you would be reading this on your laptop you may be aksed to give up your seat with no other option of a reply other than 'yes ma'am'.

[auntrainey]

Years ago, while at work, I was speaking to a male, a bit younger than me, about how nice his hair stayed all day. He said, it's because I'm different than you. I said "how so"? He said well I am from a different origin that you are, but you have to guess. I looked at him and said "why do I need to guess?". He said I am a particular race. I looked at him strange, and said "The Human Race?".

He looked at me and smiled. Nothing was ever said about it again.

[Athena]

To live in a complex world such as ours it takes the combined wisdom of all races, all cultures, all people. How much poorer we would all be if we regarded as valid only those contributions made be people just like us.

Totally amazing. Two sentences that says it all. :)