Discussion Thread 2007 (Part 4)

[HiLife]

You have been suggesting that Natalee's alleged jello shot lured sweet innocent joran into her clutches. IF this happened it was an invitation for joran to do what he wanted with her. At least that's the tone of your posts. Otherwise why bring up the jello shots?
Maybe you've come along further than that I'll give you a chance to rethink woman and their rights.
:patriot:
imo

That was my understanding as well, Heyes! So Harlequin-like. Blaming the victim is a low form of defense for a predator and you're right, does severely set back the advances made by so many courageous women. :rose:

JMO

[HiLife]

And you continue to state that Natalee offered Joran a jello shot (sometimes adding that she paid for it). Your explaination above does not relate to a jello shot specifically between Joran and Natalee, which is the statement that you continue to make without back up, links or explaination.

If the statement is totally your opinion, it's easy enough to clear up.

imo

Yes, completely an opinion.

Doncha love the "not denying a report must make it true" type of explanation?

In my opinion, it is "not dignifying scurrilous rumors with an answer!" It has always been the classy way to deal with those who viciously criticize.

jmo

[HiLife]

<snipped>

It's enlightening to visit the board, and see that posters INSIST on the FACTS .... then go on to post "Natalee didn't deserve to be kidnapped, raped, and murdered". Those are FACTS ???

JMO

Yes, according to the link posted yesterday by CBS, those are the FACTS. Joran and the Kalpoes were charged with kidnap and murder!

jmo

[HiLife]

IMO, this is just about as close to "proof" as we are going to get (at least from Aruba).

Quote:
Aruba's attorney general, Karin Janssen, told The Associated Press that the young men had been charged with murder since their arrest three weeks ago.

"The three have been charged with the murder of Natalee Holloway from the beginning" of their arrest 10 days after the young woman went missing May 30, she said in a recorded interview. "At the time, we didn't want to upset the family talking about murder while they searched."


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/30/world/main705394.shtml

I would like to have an answer to What happened to these CHARGES??? While this is not actual "proof", there is only one way to read these words from the prosecutor who had all the files and evidence pertaining to this case.

imo

Bumping for FACTS.

jmo

[JustMyOpinion]

..... And I agree with you, cassidy. As far as I understand, the suspects were arrested as people of interest in the disappearance of Natalee. They were arrested .... THEN the investigation began, which I believe is quite different than what most are used to. Usually there is an investigation, THEN someone is arrested as a suspect. That's what always amazes me when someone will say something like .... "they were allowed to roam free for 10 days". As an example, Scott Peterson was free for MONTHS, while they investigated him.


JMO

No, they were detained on reasonable suspicion of involvement in specific, alleged crimes. Successfully prolonging detentions requires a showing of sufficient evidence at specific periods under Dutch/Aruban law. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159999,00.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551822/

IMO,J2K weren't treated like the security guards, and they weren't arrested for 9-10 days, despite the fact they were the last known persons to be seen with a living Natalee Holloway and according to Dave Holloway, the HI survelliance video did not show the vehicle dropping her off as they claimed. How do you explain the difference in the treatment of SGs and J2K?

Scott Peterson was a person of interest in California, not Aruba. Had authorities detained him prior to the bodies washing ashore, he could have invoked his rights to speedy prelim and trial, and they may have lacked sufficient evidence to successfully prosecute him, IMO.

Aruba utilizes the modified inquisitorial system, it is not the same as the adversarial system in the United States.

[terrysdoor]

Yes, according to the link posted yesterday by CBS, those are the FACTS. Joran and the Kalpoes were charged with kidnap and murder!

jmo

yes they were charged but not enough to convict...... IMO

why does it matter if Natalee gave Joran a "jello shot" ?IMO that is irrevelant

[Grandad]

Bumping for FACTS.

jmo

Here's a fact: The article says, "Aruba's chief government spokesman said Friday that three young men detained in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager have not been formally charged but could be as soon as Monday."

Don't you people read what you're linking to.

I suggest you click on the link and actually read the article.

[fairmaiden]

Here's a fact: The article says, "Aruba's chief government spokesman said Friday that three young men detained in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager have not been formally charged but could be as soon as Monday."

Don't you people read what you're linking to.

I suggest you click on the link and actually read the article.

Hi Grandad .... I must be a little lost somewhere. Even if they WERE formally charged .... does that mean they DID kidnap, rape and murder Natalee ?? You know .... sort of like the three from Duke were formally CHARGED with rape ??

How can someone determine, BECAUSE someone might have been CHARGED with heinous crimes, they in FACT committed them ???

((I don't believe they WERE formally charged, by the way)).

JMO

[No Nic]

Here's a fact: The article says, "Aruba's chief government spokesman said Friday that three young men detained in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager have not been formally charged but could be as soon as Monday."

Don't you people read what you're linking to.

I suggest you click on the link and actually read the article.

The prosecutor plainly states they were charged, AND THEN...... the "chief gov't spokesman" (another spokesperson :rolleyes: ) says they could be charged as soon as Monday. Who to believe ?? :confused:

This Aruban official says "have been charged", this spokesperson says "could be charged".....this official says "we have a confession", this official says "misinformation campaign", this one says "sexual assault", this one says "murder", this one says "suicide", this one says "OD"....and on and on and on and on....................................

When was there ever a truthful statement made by any Aruban official/spokesperson? This is how that corrupt, black little island treats the people who provide for their very existence? Do they all have *Joran Disease"?

What happened to those "charges"?

This is the kind of garbage this family (and "Bud" Larson's family) had to deal with while desparately searching for their loved one. This case has been one of the cruelest, sickest, most cowardly that I have ever seen.

imo

[Heyes]

No, they were detained on reasonable suspicion of involvement in specific, alleged crimes. Successfully prolonging detentions requires a showing of sufficient evidence at specific periods under Dutch/Aruban law. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159999,00.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551822/

IMO,J2K weren't treated like the security guards, and they weren't arrested for 9-10 days, despite the fact they were the last known persons to be seen with a living Natalee Holloway and according to Dave Holloway, the HI survelliance video did not show the vehicle dropping her off as they claimed. How do you explain the difference in the treatment of SGs and J2K?

Scott Peterson was a person of interest in California, not Aruba. Had authorities detained him prior to the bodies washing ashore, he could have invoked his rights to speedy prelim and trial, and they may have lacked sufficient evidence to successfully prosecute him, IMO.

Aruba utilizes the modified inquisitorial system, it is not the same as the adversarial system in the United States.

Your question in red above, is one that aruba's citizens should hold the ale's feet to the fire on.
This looks like pure racial discrimination to anyone watching this saga unfold.
The way they were treated vs the way joran and the kalpoes were treated is like day and night.
I remember wondering why jorans house wasn't searched and we was told that arubans are not like American's they don't act like cowboys. lol! Yet, they barged in the SG"s house, searched them, searched their cars and arrested them. One of those sg's mom was on tv begging for help. I cannot stand the way aruba slants everything and their rules change with the wind.
Until there is a logical explaination out of aruba for this behavior, ( lol logical and aruba in the same sentence really is funny isn't it?). I wouldn't send my dog there. How can they treat the two black guys completely different than the white judge in training's son and his two friends?
I guess women ask for it if they dress in their words like a slu! and if your black you must have committed the crime. Thank heavens Beth and her friends got ahold of that tape before paulus vandersloot could get his hands on it. Thoses poor SG's.

IMO

[Heyes]

The prosecutor plainly states they were charged, AND THEN...... the "chief gov't spokesman" (another spokesperson :rolleyes: ) says they could be charged as soon as Monday. Who to believe ?? :confused:

This Aruban official says "have been charged", this spokesperson says "could be charged".....this official says "we have a confession", this official says "misinformation campaign", this one says "sexual assault", this one says "murder", this one says "suicide", this one says "OD"....and on and on and on and on....................................

When was there ever a truthful statement made by any Aruban official/spokesperson? This is how that corrupt, black little island treats the people who provide for their very existence? Do they all have *Joran Disease"?

What happened to those "charges"?

This is the kind of garbage this family (and "Bud" Larson's family) had to deal with while desparately searching for their loved one. This case has been one of the cruelest, sickest, most cowardly that I have ever seen.

imo

yup! Welcome to aruba! Leave us all your money, then go away.
If your loved one disappears, we don't care, just go get some gov. sanctioned crack and chill out.
Sounds like paradise. :chicken:
imo

[Grandad]

The prosecutor plainly states they were charged, AND THEN...... the "chief gov't spokesman" (another spokesperson :rolleyes: ) says they could be charged as soon as Monday. Who to believe ?? :confused:

This Aruban official says "have been charged", this spokesperson says "could be charged".....this official says "we have a confession", this official says "misinformation campaign", this one says "sexual assault", this one says "murder", this one says "suicide", this one says "OD"....and on and on and on and on....................................

When was there ever a truthful statement made by any Aruban official/spokesperson? This is how that corrupt, black little island treats the people who provide for their very existence? Do they all have *Joran Disease"?

What happened to those "charges"?

This is the kind of garbage this family (and "Bud" Larson's family) had to deal with while desparately searching for their loved one. This case has been one of the cruelest, sickest, most cowardly that I have ever seen.

imo

Apparently you still didn't read the article.

[ortiga]

You have been suggesting that Natalee's alleged jello shot lured sweet innocent joran into her clutches. IF this happened it was an invitation for joran to do what he wanted with her. At least that's the tone of your posts. Otherwise why bring up the jello shots?
Maybe you've come along further than that I'll give you a chance to rethink woman and their rights.
:patriot:
imo


Please link to where I have ever said Natalee's invitation to do a jello shot was an "invitation for Joran to do what he wanted with her".

That's the "tone" of my posts?

You'll give me the chance to rethink "woman and their rights"?

That is quite rude, and uncivil.

[Heyes]

From the link Just my Opinion brought over.
anita vandersloot makes these strange comments.
"And that brought up a lot of emotions"
"And we cannot approach him, none of us."
"not a model child, because he has his mistakes. And he cheated, and he kicks his brothers, and he does things any ordinary 17-year-old teenager would do, but we always try to talk. "

Why can't they approach him, what emotions were "brought up"? What the hey is she talking about?
Who is this kid? If he truly had nothing to do with Natalee's disappearance then why all the anger and drama? Naw this kid did something to this girl and she knows it. He must have some serious anger problems.
All my opinion of course.

[ortiga]

The only reason anyone searched the crackhouses for Natalee was because from the cops to the cab drivers ,the Twitty's were continuously told that it is common on aruba for tourists to be taken to crack houses until their money runs out and then they are dumped back at the beach. The suggestion of the crackhouses came from the locals themselves, so now would you please show us a link regarding Natalee's friend assuming Natalee was in a crack house, that it was the first place she thought of. That this friend actually searched the crackhouse. And fill us in on why this would be the first place this friend would think Natalee would be?
Or should we debunk that rumor and dragging of one of Natalee's friends name through the mud right now? :cuss:

you said:

"the Twitty's were continuously told that it is common on aruba for tourists to be taken to crack houses until their money runs out and then they are dumped back at the beach."

There is nothing in that sentence that stipulates that the tourist is taken against their will to a crack house, and kept against their will. And, if it is from Twitty the story doesn't count anyway. She is a liar.

[ortiga]

And you continue to state that Natalee offered Joran a jello shot (sometimes adding that she paid for it). Your explaination above does not relate to a jello shot specifically between Joran and Natalee, which is the statement that you continue to make without back up, links or explaination.

If the statement is totally your opinion, it's easy enough to clear up.

imo


No, you are wrong. On the ACA interview the TH was referring to the words of Joran, that Natalee gave him a jello shot. I stated my IMO 2 times and there is no rule that I have to keep stating it again and again. My opinion that this occurred is based on the words of Joran and on the words of the TH that Twitty did not deny seeing the pictures as Joran described. And, I am quite sure that in time we will see the reports of the bar person who will most likely back up the story.

Why does it bother you so much if she did give him a jello shot?

IMO

[ortiga]

I guess what happens, ortiga .... if you are of a "like mind" as someone who might have posted about the death certificate .... you are automatically "linked" to that person. Proof is demanded of you also.

Why posters on any "side" are treated in a general way, is beyond me. I have always been very careful about not posting about the appearance of individuals .... their marriage status .... but it never fails, I'm always included in the collective "they". I guess it's your turn to be blamed for posting about the "death certificate".;)

JMO

That is the 3rd time I have been accused of talking about the death certificate, each time I challenge the poster to produce the statements I made and each time they just don't do it.

[HiLife]

No, they were detained on reasonable suspicion of involvement in specific, alleged crimes. Successfully prolonging detentions requires a showing of sufficient evidence at specific periods under Dutch/Aruban law. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159999,00.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551822/

IMO,J2K weren't treated like the security guards, and they weren't arrested for 9-10 days, despite the fact they were the last known persons to be seen with a living Natalee Holloway and according to Dave Holloway, the HI survelliance video did not show the vehicle dropping her off as they claimed. How do you explain the difference in the treatment of SGs and J2K?<snipped>



There appears to be only one explanation, IMO - racism.

What a blatant difference in treatment. J2K were last to be seen with Natalee and lied and lied and lied. Yet an arrest was made only 9-10 days later and also the inability to obtain a search warrant for the Van der Sloot house as opposed to how for the SG's homes, the search warrants were immediately granted and executed and their innocent behinds were immediately thrown in jail.

Heyes, is right - if it weren't for Beth and friends, I don't know what would have become of those innocent SGs.

jmo

[ortiga]

There appears to be only one explanation, IMO - racism.

What a blatant difference in treatment. J2K were last to be seen with Natalee and lied and lied and lied. Yet an arrest was made only 9-10 days later and also the inability to obtain a search warrant for the Van der Sloot house as opposed to how for the SG's homes, the search warrants were immediately granted and executed and their innocent behinds were immediately thrown in jail.

Heyes, is right - if it weren't for Beth and friends, I don't know what would have become of those innocent SGs.

jmo

You don't know that they are "innocent". One is still a suspect. Do you think they liked being referred to by Twitty as "minority"?

[Heyes]

"slob cop"?

IMO It was a friend of Natalee's that recommended searching in, and I believe even searched herself in crack houses. Haleigh Uncapher, something like that. Why do you think that's the first place she thought of to look for Natalee?

IMO

you said:

"the Twitty's were continuously told that it is common on aruba for tourists to be taken to crack houses until their money runs out and then they are dumped back at the beach."

There is nothing in that sentence that stipulates that the tourist is taken against their will to a crack house, and kept against their will. And, if it is from Twitty the story doesn't count anyway. She is a liar.
Twitty's a liar?

What bit of information that is out there that lead you to believe that Natalee's friend went searching in crackhouses and that it was the first place she thought to look for Natalee. What has lead you to believe this. If there is nothing out there then this is a rumor and will of course not be believed.
It only serves to insinuate nasty things about the victim.
Unless of course you have some information that the rest of us must have missed.
imo

[ortiga]

Twitty's a liar?

What bit of information that is out there that lead you to believe that Natalee's friend went searching in crackhouses and that it was the first place she thought to look for Natalee. What has lead you to believe this. If there is nothing out there then this is a rumor and will of course not be believed.
It only serves to insinuate nasty things about the victim.
Unless of course you have some information that the rest of us must have missed.
imo

And, when you asked "what kind of improper relationship did Anita have with Joran", well, it won't be believed, will it. Talk about insinuating "nasty things".

So, let's sweep our own porch before we try to make other's sweep theirs. TIA

BTW, didn't the mother bring her own hospital jet to bring Natalee home after she would have supposedly be found in a crack house? That is pretty insinuating too. Did she think that Natalee would have gone to a crack house?

[HiLife]

yes they were charged but not enough to convict...... IMO

why does it matter if Natalee gave Joran a "jello shot" ?IMO that is irrevelant

I absolutely agree. The jello shot is irrelevant. Perhaps you misunderstood? The family supporters are not the ones constantly bringing the jello shot up in an insinuation that it somehow led to Natalee's disappearance or that it was some kind of invitation for something bad to happen to Natalee.

I don't even believe the jello shot happened between Natalee and Joran. A couple reasons for not believing this story is that it was closing time, and one of the bars had even closed and also, no one has said they saw this. Yes, jello shots between Natalee and her friends - but NOT with Joran. In fact, it was the opposite - in one of the statements, IIRC, didn't one of her friends say Natalee completely ignored Joran?

There's going to have to be something more credible than only Joran's "word." He has been proven to be a liar extraordinaire who said he wouldn't even believe himself!

jmo

[ortiga]

I would be willing to bet "they" can't, ortiga. I used to be quite offended by that practice ((generalizing)) .... it's SOP, I believe.

JMO


Hi FM

I just don't know why anyone would be offended to think that Natalee offered Joran a jello shot, and that he readily accepted, as he said. Any young heterosexual guy would. Her own father said that (quotes for readability) "C&C was full of beautiful tourist girls doing jello shots in front of sleazy locals." It's not that far fetched to think that the locals were included in the action from time to time.

I hope we get to see the statements from the C&C staff.

IMO

[Heyes]

Twitty's a liar?

What bit of information that is out there that lead you to believe that Natalee's friend went searching in crackhouses and that it was the first place she thought to look for Natalee. What has lead you to believe this. If there is nothing out there then this is a rumor and will of course not be believed.
It only serves to insinuate nasty things about the victim.
Unless of course you have some information that the rest of us must have missed.
imo

And, when you asked "what kind of improper relationship did Anita have with Joran", well, it won't be believed, will it. Talk about insinuating "nasty things".

So, let's sweep our own porch before we try to make other's sweep theirs. TIA

BTW, didn't the mother bring her own hospital jet to bring Natalee home after she would have supposedly be found in a crack house? That is pretty insinuating too. Did she think that Natalee would have gone to a crack house?

so your not going to answer the question regarding the recent rumor that insinuates such nastiness about the victim that you posted. got it!

the med jet was there because of the constant stories by the locals about the crackhouses. Yes it was assumed she was kidnapped.
There were two theories going at the time. joran kidnapped raped and murdered her or she had been kidnapped after joran left her and taken to one of these houses. Only a mother wanting the best for her daughter where the med jet is concerned. Unlike julia who tried to scam this desperate mother and then had photograhers at the ready to film her grief. They should throw her butt in jail right along side jorans. IMO

I don't know what kind of improper relationship anita has with joran. by those quotes (straight out of anita's mouth) a few posts back I would say she is frightened of him. He's not approachable, he has anger problems it seems. He hits and steals and cheats. You tell him something and it "brought back emotions"?????? wierd
imo

[JustMyOpinion]

Hi FM

I just don't know why anyone would be offended to think that Natalee offered Joran a jello shot, and that he readily accepted,
IMO

I'm not offended at the "thought", I see no evidence it happened, and since IIRC Joran is the only person who has made this allegation ( and Natalee's not here to speak for herself) and Joran hasn't produced corroboration for most of his stories, and he's a proven, admitted liar and primary suspect in her disappearance, I question his claims. JMO. I do believe Natalee was doing jello shots at C&C earlier that night, ( and Joran may have had access to that information via discovery.) IMO

[ortiga]

so your not going to answer the question regarding the recent rumor that insinuates such nastiness about the victim that you posted. got it!

the med jet was there because of the constant stories by the locals about the crackhouses. Yes it was assumed she was kidnapped.
There were two theories going at the time. joran kidnapped raped and murdered her or she had been kidnapped after joran left her and taken to one of these houses. Only a mother wanting the best for her daughter where the med jet is concerned. Unlike julia who tried to scam this desperate mother and then had photograhers at the ready to film her grief. They should throw her butt in jail right along side jorans. IMO

I don't know what kind of improper relationship anita has with joran. by those quotes (straight out of anita's mouth) a few posts back I would say she is frightened of him. He's not approachable, he has anger problems it seems. He hits and steals and cheats. You tell him something and it "brought back emotions"?????? wierd
imo

You can't believe a single word that Twitty or whatever her name is now says. Did you ever come up with an explanation as to why she says in her book that she and Jug dated 3 years, yet Jug on NG said 8 years? 5 years is a pretty big chunk of time to sweep under the rug.

I can think of a couple of reasons why she lied:
1) maybe he wouldn't marry her for a long time and she just hung on
2) possibly they were dating while one or both of them were still married?

What else can explain such a lie?

IMO

[ortiga]

I'm not offended at the "thought", I see no evidence it happened, and since IIRC Joran is the only person who has made this allegation ( and Natalee's not here to speak for herself) and Joran hasn't produced corroboration for most of his stories, and he's a proven, admitted liar and primary suspect in her disappearance, I question his claims. JMO. I do believe Natalee was doing jello shots at C&C earlier that night, ( and Joran may have had access to that information via discovery.) IMO

I don't believe everything Joran or anyone else in this case has said. However coupled with the statements on ACA, with Beth right there in the studio, I believe Beth would have screamed bloody murder if the TH had said that she didn't deny seeing the photos of Natalee up there on the bar as Joran described, if it were a lie. She would have exploded, we all saw her actions on TV for nearly 2 years. No way would she have let that one go by without a fight.....unless it were true.

Sooner or later we'll probably see the C&C staff statements. I believe in those interviews, and in the book, Joran stuck pretty close to the truth, without actually describing in detail Natalee's very personal responses and actions.

IMO

[Grandad]

I'm not offended at the "thought", I see no evidence it happened, and since IIRC Joran is the only person who has made this allegation ( and Natalee's not here to speak for herself) and Joran hasn't produced corroboration for most of his stories, and he's a proven, admitted liar and primary suspect in her disappearance, I question his claims. JMO. I do believe Natalee was doing jello shots at C&C earlier that night, ( and Joran may have had access to that information via discovery.) IMO

Seems odd that Joran would lie about something 40 or so of Natalee's friends could dispute.

Have I missed something? Did any of the MB kids dispute Joran's claim?

[ortiga]

Seems odd that Joran would lie about something 40 or so of Natalee's friends could dispute.

Have I missed something? Did any of the MB kids dispute Joran's claim?

Not that I ever heard of. They must really snicker if they read these message boards, and they could dispel so many stories with a few words. If they cared to help Natalee out. They'd be indignant if it weren't true.

IMO

[Heyes]

You can't believe a single word that Twitty or whatever her name is now says. Did you ever come up with an explanation as to why she says in her book that she and Jug dated 3 years, yet Jug on NG said 8 years? 5 years is a pretty big chunk of time to sweep under the rug.

I can think of a couple of reasons why she lied:
1) maybe he wouldn't marry her for a long time and she just hung on
2) possibly they were dating while one or both of them were still married?

What else can explain such a lie?

IMO
now we are discussing the length of their courtship? lol lol lol

aruban motto

lets discuss jorans many lies and the fact that he is the only one who claims this jello shot nonsense. I think your right JMO, he got that in the discovery. Considering daddy's connections I would be your right. He is such a liar. proven liar I don't even have to add IMO on that one. lol
Let's talk about how anita says her son said NOTHING about Natalee then went on to talk about how he claims he is innocent to his mother. She's the one who needs to get her stories straight. I can see where he gets it. She had no clue that these lies were being thought up or the little meetings in her home or her phone calls to his friends to see what they told the police??? No wonder the prosecutor thought that she'd obstructed justice. Heck all the vandersloots obstructed justice.
imo

[No Nic]

I'm not offended at the "thought", I see no evidence it happened, and since IIRC Joran is the only person who has made this allegation ( and Natalee's not here to speak for herself) and Joran hasn't produced corroboration for most of his stories, and he's a proven, admitted liar and primary suspect in her disappearance, I question his claims. JMO. I do believe Natalee was doing jello shots at C&C earlier that night, ( and Joran may have had access to that information via discovery.) IMO


I totally agree.

Joran's claim of a jello shot with Natalee can be put right up there with "I dropped her off at the HI".

imo

[ortiga]

now we are discussing the length of their courtship? lol lol lol

clipped.
imo

I for one don't think it's funny to find more Beth lies at this late stage, supposedly she is selling an inspirational book on faith and hope. How can one lie in a book lie that? (easy, I guess) But, it makes me realize that lying is just her MO. You can't believe anything she says. Do you have an opinion why she said 3 years in the book? When Jug said 8 years on NG? Why would that matter unless someone wanted the world to think they weren't dating as long as they did?

IMO

[Grandad]

I for one don't think it's funny to find more Beth lies at this late stage, supposedly she is selling an inspirational book on faith and hope. How can one lie in a book lie that? (easy, I guess) But, it makes me realize that lying is just her MO. You can't believe anything she says. Do you have an opinion why she said 3 years in the book? When Jug said 8 years on NG? Why would that matter unless someone wanted the world to think they weren't dating as long as they did?

IMO

There are a few posters on this board who consider themselves experts on the subject of "lying."

They claim they can diagnose psychopathic and sociopathic behavior from a few snippets of an interview.

Strange none of them have ever explained why Beth has been lying for over two and a half years now.

[ortiga]

There are a few posters on this board who consider themselves experts on the subject of "lying."

They claim they can diagnose psychopathic and sociopathic behavior from a few snippets of an interview.

Strange none of them have ever explained why Beth has been lying for over two and a half years now.

IIRC it was because she was a grieving mother and just repeated what she was told to say.

That's a little worn out now.

[HiLife]

My, my. Here are two links to "just" a couple of people (Criminal Profiler Pat Brown and FBI Profilers) calling Joran "sociopathic" and "psychopathic." Unlike the false rumors against Beth and the Holloways made by a handful of posters, these terms come from professionals. Nothing like professional analysis as opposed to false rumors:


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/ng.01.html

GRACE: To criminal profiler Pat Brown. Why is it so significant that Joran Van Der Sloot cannot shut up?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, a lot of people can`t shut up when they`re trying to make up a story that they`re trying to convince you with. This is a rather psychopathic behavior. And I can`t call him a psychopath, but I can say he is exhibiting psychopathic behaviors, one of arrogance that, I can pull this wool over everybody`s eyes, one of blaming the victim, and he`s always blaming Natalee. Hey, here again we have, She wanted sex, I didn`t. That`s a new one added in her..."



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/22/48hours/main1430644_page4.shtml

Asked what FBI profilers told Dompig about van der Sloot's psychological profile, he says, "They use the word sociopath. And the fact that he was capable of lying about basically everything."



JMO

[HiLife]

I totally agree.

Joran's claim of a jello shot with Natalee can be put right up there with "I dropped her off at the HI".

imo

And lets not forget the words of the self-admitted liar himself. Who can defend someone who is the first to say he is guilty??


Joran VDS ~ Primetime Live Interview 2/23/06:

Q. "Why should you be believed after all of the lying that you have done in this situation?"
A. "There is absolutely no reason to believe me."
Q. "Would you believe you?"
A. "Um I wouldn't probably not believe myself no."


jmo

[ortiga]

OOOH OOOOH

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #3,153 in Books

And taken completely off the inspirational category the book was formerly in. Only left in "True Crime" and "Family Relationships". Maybe they realized it wasn't really a book for "inspiration", but they don't have a "revenge" category?

[Grandad]

My, my. Here are two links to "just" a couple of people (Criminal Profiler Pat Brown and FBI Profilers) calling Joran "sociopathic" and "psychopathic." Unlike the false rumors against Beth and the Holloways made by a handful of posters, these terms come from professionals. Nothing like professional analysis as opposed to false rumors:


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/ng.01.html

GRACE: To criminal profiler Pat Brown. Why is it so significant that Joran Van Der Sloot cannot shut up?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, a lot of people can`t shut up when they`re trying to make up a story that they`re trying to convince you with. This is a rather psychopathic behavior. And I can`t call him a psychopath, but I can say he is exhibiting psychopathic behaviors, one of arrogance that, I can pull this wool over everybody`s eyes, one of blaming the victim, and he`s always blaming Natalee. Hey, here again we have, She wanted sex, I didn`t. That`s a new one added in her..."



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/22/48hours/main1430644_page4.shtml

Asked what FBI profilers told Dompig about van der Sloot's psychological profile, he says, "They use the word sociopath. And the fact that he was capable of lying about basically everything."



JMO

You just don't read your links, do you? TV profiler Pat Brown said, "And I can`t call him a psychopath."

Chances are the FBI used the word sociopath in the same context.

[HiLife]

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, a lot of people can`t shut up when they`re trying to make up a story that they`re trying to convince you with. This is a rather psychopathic behavior.


Not too much of a leap to logically realize that people who behave as a psychopath are.....hmmmm.....well........psychopathic.


jmo

[Grandad]

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, a lot of people can`t shut up when they`re trying to make up a story that they`re trying to convince you with. This is a rather psychopathic behavior.


Not too much of a leap to logically realize that people who behave as a psychopath are.....hmmmm.....well........psychopathic.


jmo

It's a good thing the medical profession doesn't agree with your definition, but Pat Brown's example would tend to make Beth a psychopath, wouldn't it? She's been telling the same lies for more than two and a half years.

[HiLife]

The only person called "psychopath" and "sociopath" by professionals, on National Television to boot, is Joran.

:read:

jmo

[Chocoholic]

And, when you asked "what kind of improper relationship did Anita have with Joran", well, it won't be believed, will it. Talk about insinuating "nasty things".

So, let's sweep our own porch before we try to make other's sweep theirs. TIA

BTW, didn't the mother bring her own hospital jet to bring Natalee home after she would have supposedly be found in a crack house? That is pretty insinuating too. Did she think that Natalee would have gone to a crack house?

Of course, it makes sense that she would bring medjet. If Natalee were kidnapped, gangraped and murdered, as we know beth knew from the moment she got the call from Aruba it would make sense. Perhaps the kidnappers would have traded the jet for Nat.

We know how much drug addicts love to share their stash so it would only make sense that a woman who drinks responsibly, is naive and hasn't really had a boyfriend, would hang out in a crackhouse.

Either way, the thought process is warped.

:shrug:

imo

[Chocoholic]

The only person called "psychopath" and "sociopath" by professionals, on National Television to boot, is Joran.

:read:

jmo

LMAO, if those are professionals, you might want to show a picture of Natalee to a sniffing dog, on tv. I have more faith in the dogs. The "professionals" never talked with Joran directly. What a hoot!

[ortiga]

LMAO, if those are professionals, you might want to show a picture of Natalee to a sniffing dog, on tv. I have more faith in the dogs. The "professionals" never talked with Joran directly. What a hoot!


They are always "ex" FBI, "Ex" prosecutors, "ex" whatevers. So now they just play them on TV.

[terrysdoor]

Hi FM

I just don't know why anyone would be offended to think that Natalee offered Joran a jello shot, and that he readily accepted, as he said. Any young heterosexual guy would. Her own father said that (quotes for readability) "C&C was full of beautiful tourist girls doing jello shots in front of sleazy locals." It's not that far fetched to think that the locals were included in the action from time to time.

I hope we get to see the statements from the C&C staff.

IMO

Good morning everybody..........

Ortiga i agree i don`t know why the "jello shot" is such i big deal i believe it was mutual between Joran and Natalee and i would just love to hear what the bartender has to say about those nightly visits from the MB students IMO

[ortiga]

Good morning everybody..........

Ortiga i agree i don`t know why the "jello shot" is such i big deal i believe it was mutual between Joran and Natalee and i would just love to hear what the bartender has to say about those nightly visits from the MB students IMO


Yes, I would like to read those reports from the bartenders too. Reportedly the band played "Sweet Home Alabama" everytime the MB students came in. But I have seen several posters on this board, one radio interviewer and at least one TH on TV say some variation of "those students went out to a bar on their last night in Aruba". Sure, that's true, but misleading, and meant to imply that they finally went out and had a beer on their last night, lol.

Did Twitty also say this in her book? I loaned my copy to to my personal trainer, lol. IE went out on the "last night"?

We know from Twitty that Natalee had an altercation in the bar on Friday night, IIRC, with a blue eyed Dutch boy, GVC. We know from the 302's that she was escorted to her bedroom, intoxicated, on Saturday night by a fellow male student. We know from Dave that GVC was at C&C on Sunday night too, and so was Natalee.

Lots of loose ends to be tied up in the weaving of the MB teens' behavior in Aruba, who Natalee might have met, who might have been PO'd enough to hit her and why, who might have been jealous while watching the jello shot (that Beth did not deny seeing photos of) and seeing Natalee leave with Joran.

IMO

[terrysdoor]

Yes, I would like to read those reports from the bartenders too. Reportedly the band played "Sweet Home Alabama" everytime the MB students came in. But I have seen several posters on this board, one radio interviewer and at least one TH on TV say some variation of "those students went out to a bar on their last night in Aruba". Sure, that's true, but misleading, and meant to imply that they finally went out and had a beer on their last night, lol.

Did Twitty also say this in her book? I loaned my copy to to my personal trainer, lol. IE went out on the "last night"?

We know from Twitty that Natalee had an altercation in the bar on Friday night, IIRC, with a blue eyed Dutch boy, GVC. We know from the 302's that she was escorted to her bedroom, intoxicated, on Saturday night by a fellow male student. We know from Dave that GVC was at C&C on Sunday night too, and so was Natalee.

Lots of loose ends to be tied up in the weaving of the MB teens' behavior in Aruba, who Natalee might have met, who might have been PO'd enough to hit her and why, who might have been jealous while watching the jello shot (that Beth did not deny seeing photos of) and seeing Natalee leave with Joran.

IMO

IMO Beth got all the information on her way to Aruba from the MB students and found out about Natalee`s behavior that week and that is why it was so important for her to establish Natalee`s character i don`t think Aruba saw the Natalee Beth was telling us about IMO

[ortiga]

IMO Beth got all the information on her way to Aruba from the MB students and found out about Natalee`s behavior that week and that is why it was so important for her to establish Natalee`s character i don`t think Aruba saw the Natalee Beth was telling us about IMO

I agree completely. Joran (and Aruba, meaning the bartenders etc) had no way to know that she was any different than the rest of the girls that party hardy on their vacations. And, IMO, she wasn't.

IMO

[HiLife]

Nothing like professional analysis as opposed to false rumors:


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/ng.01.html

GRACE: To criminal profiler Pat Brown. Why is it so significant that Joran Van Der Sloot cannot shut up?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, a lot of people can`t shut up when they`re trying to make up a story that they`re trying to convince you with. This is a rather psychopathic behavior. And I can`t call him a psychopath, but I can say he is exhibiting psychopathic behaviors, one of arrogance that, I can pull this wool over everybody`s eyes, one of blaming the victim, and he`s always blaming Natalee. Hey, here again we have, She wanted sex, I didn`t. That`s a new one added in her..."



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/22/48hours/main1430644_page4.shtml

Asked what FBI profilers told Dompig about van der Sloot's psychological profile, he says, "They use the word sociopath. And the fact that he was capable of lying about basically everything."

JMO

Can't discredit these two. Pat Brown is currently working in her Criminal Profiling Profession (Google her website) and the FBI were asked to observe ALE questioning of Joran, IIRC. No "ex" anything here. Both are respected. Both come to almost the same conclusion, that Joran has "sociopathic"/"psychopathic" tendencies.

I wonder what the Dutch special investigators thought/diagnosed when, IIRC, Joran stuck his fingers in his ears and started with the lalalalala when they questioned him? Wonder what the official term would be for severely stunted emotional growth? Or is that just part of the "sociopathic"/"psychopathic" profile?

JMO

[terrysdoor]

Can't discredit these two. Pat Brown is currently working in her Criminal Profiling Profession (Google her website) and the FBI were asked to observe ALE questioning of Joran, IIRC. No "ex" anything here. Both are respected. Both come to almost the same conclusion, that Joran has "sociopathic"/"psychopathic" tendencies.

I wonder what the Dutch special investigators thought/diagnosed when, IIRC, Joran stuck his fingers in his ears and started with the lalalalala when they questioned him? Wonder what the official term would be for severely stunted emotional growth? Or is that just part of the "sociopathic"/"psychopathic" profile?

JMO

HiLife i remember hearing about Joran doing that do you remember who said he did that was it the FBI?

[ortiga]

HiLife i remember hearing about Joran doing that do you remember who said he did that was it the FBI?


I never did see the source of that rumor, maybe the OP could let us know if that story came from Twitty, Dompig, the FBI, or who. Also if the la la la was part of the original report.

[Grandad]

Can't discredit these two. Pat Brown is currently working in her Criminal Profiling Profession (Google her website) and the FBI were asked to observe ALE questioning of Joran, IIRC. No "ex" anything here. Both are respected. Both come to almost the same conclusion, that Joran has "sociopathic"/"psychopathic" tendencies.

I wonder what the Dutch special investigators thought/diagnosed when, IIRC, Joran stuck his fingers in his ears and started with the lalalalala when they questioned him? Wonder what the official term would be for severely stunted emotional growth? Or is that just part of the "sociopathic"/"psychopathic" profile?

JMO

You have no clue what the FBI actually said about Joran's behavior, and Pat Brown is on the same level as Dr. Phil. She has not had the opportunity to observe Joran's behavior, or interview him. Any diagnosis she might have made of him is totally unprofessional and has no validity.

I doubt the Dutch investigators or any other credible agency paid any attention to an internet rumor disseminated merely to demean Joran.

[No Nic]

You have no clue what the FBI actually said about Joran's behavior, and Pat Brown is on the same level as Dr. Phil. She has not had the opportunity to observe Joran's behavior, or interview him. Any diagnosis she might have made of him is totally unprofessional and has no validity.

I doubt the Dutch investigators or any other credible agency paid any attention to an internet rumor disseminated merely to demean Joran.

Joran had no problem demeaning himself. We were able to see his character by his very own words and actions for ourselves in his various interviews.

Many of us have formed the same opinions as these professionals/experts.

ETA: It wasn't an internet rumor, it was reported by Dompig in the VF article.
imo

[HiLife]

Joran had no problem demeaning himself. We were able to see his character by his very own words and actions for ourselves in his various interviews.

Many of us have formed the same opinions as these professionals/experts.

ETA: It wasn't an internet rumor, it was reported by Dompig in the VF article.
imo
As you know, NN, it is useless to provide links to those who have no interest in the truth. Picking and parsing is the name of the game. Even when reading in black and white, such as "psychopathic behaviors" - it is still argued.

Here is one link (no time to keep researching), and I am providing it to show that what the Family Supporters claim are TRUE. Rumors with no links as backup are usually what happens when we ask for substantiation from the Joran supporters, such as when we asked for link verification of Joran doing the jello shot off of Natalee (which was first claimed by a Joran supporter). We got nothing but a big IMO.

So here, once again, actual factual backup. But we know what will happen. ;)


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/ng.01.html

TWITTY: Oh, exactly, Nancy. And one thing that is so frustrating to us and -- there were so many times where Joran would just simply place his fingers in his ears because he was not going to answer anymore questions with the interrogators. I mean, he merely toyed with them over the summer. I mean, it`s just -- it`s so not true that Joran was interrogated on a daily basis over and over again. I mean, he -- you know, he gave the statements early on, but from then on, I mean, he was just advised either not to talk or, you know, continue to change his story because in Aruba, it`s in your best interest just to continue lying. I think the only thing that a judge would do is maybe frown upon the lies.

[HiLife]

Joran had no problem demeaning himself. We were able to see his character by his very own words and actions for ourselves in his various interviews.

Many of us have formed the same opinions as these professionals/experts.

ETA: It wasn't an internet rumor, it was reported by Dompig in the VF article.
imo

You're so right, NN. Joran is constantly demeaning himself with no help needed from anyone else. Here's yet another example - what a worm:


===============================
CHRIS CUOMO, ABC NEWS "PRIMETIME": Did it seem like the wrong thing to do, leaving a girl on the beach like that?

VAN DER SLOOT: At that moment in time, for me it wasn't the wrong thing. I mean, it's not something a real man would do. It's not normal. It's not right at all.

CUOMO: But you did it.

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes.


jmo

[ortiga]

clipped

I wonder what the Dutch special investigators thought/diagnosed when, IIRC, Joran stuck his fingers in his ears and started with the lalalalala when they questioned him? Wonder what the official term would be for severely stunted emotional growth? Or is that just part of the "sociopathic"/"psychopathic" profile?

JMO

HiLife i remember hearing about Joran doing that do you remember who said he did that was it the FBI?

I never did see the source of that rumor, maybe the OP could let us know if that story came from Twitty, Dompig, the FBI, or who. Also if the la la la was part of the original report.

clipped

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/ng.01.html

TWITTY: Oh, exactly, Nancy. And one thing that is so frustrating to us and -- there were so many times where Joran would just simply place his fingers in his ears because he was not going to answer anymore questions with the interrogators. I mean, he merely toyed with them over the summer. I mean, it`s just -- it`s so not true that Joran was interrogated on a daily basis over and over again. I mean, he -- you know, he gave the statements early on, but from then on, I mean, he was just advised either not to talk or, you know, continue to change his story because in Aruba, it`s in your best interest just to continue lying. I think the only thing that a judge would do is maybe frown upon the lies.

So Twitty is the source of the story? So it's not necessarily true.

Where is the part that you alleged that he said "lalalala"?

Then, after you said Joran placed his fingers in his ears and said "lalalala" you said "Wonder what the official term would be for severely stunted emotional growth? Or is that just part of the "sociopathic"/"psychopathic" profile?"

So is there some report besides Twitty? Is there any report from Twitty or anyone else wherein he said "lalalala"?

In your OP you said "Dutch special investigators", where was that alleged?

[Heyes]

You have no clue what the FBI actually said about Joran's behavior, and Pat Brown is on the same level as Dr. Phil. She has not had the opportunity to observe Joran's behavior, or interview him. Any diagnosis she might have made of him is totally unprofessional and has no validity.

I doubt the Dutch investigators or any other credible agency paid any attention to an internet rumor disseminated merely to demean Joran.


hmm I thought the Dutch investigators were paying attention to joran, his lies and his less than normal behavior. They kicked his daddy out of his own house while they conducted an elaborate search of the home and garden.
Even the credible Dutch agency think the kid is guilty, obviously.
IMO
aruba really screwed this one up, when hearing about any other case, for instance the bahama's, or portugal you always hear, *they don't want to be seen as another aruba*. lol, heard it just this morning on Fox regarding the portugal case. lol Don't blame them.
imo

[Heyes]

As you know, NN, it is useless to provide links to those who have no interest in the truth. Picking and parsing is the name of the game. Even when reading in black and white, such as "psychopathic behaviors" - it is still argued.

Here is one link (no time to keep researching), and I am providing it to show that what the Family Supporters claim are TRUE. Rumors with no links as backup are usually what happens when we ask for substantiation from the Joran supporters, such as when we asked for link verification of Joran doing the jello shot off of Natalee (which was first claimed by a Joran supporter). We got nothing but a big IMO.

So here, once again, actual factual backup. But we know what will happen. ;)


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/ng.01.html

TWITTY: Oh, exactly, Nancy. And one thing that is so frustrating to us and -- there were so many times where Joran would just simply place his fingers in his ears because he was not going to answer anymore questions with the interrogators. I mean, he merely toyed with them over the summer. I mean, it`s just -- it`s so not true that Joran was interrogated on a daily basis over and over again. I mean, he -- you know, he gave the statements early on, but from then on, I mean, he was just advised either not to talk or, you know, continue to change his story because in Aruba, it`s in your best interest just to continue lying. I think the only thing that a judge would do is maybe frown upon the lies.

No truer words were ever spoken!
imo

[Heyes]

You're so right, NN. Joran is constantly demeaning himself with no help needed from anyone else. Here's yet another example - what a worm:


===============================
CHRIS CUOMO, ABC NEWS "PRIMETIME": Did it seem like the wrong thing to do, leaving a girl on the beach like that?

VAN DER SLOOT: At that moment in time, for me it wasn't the wrong thing. I mean, it's not something a real man would do. It's not normal. It's not right at all.

CUOMO: But you did it.

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes.


jmo


No it's not something a real man would do, but it is something a cold blooded killer might do.
imo

[No Nic]

So Twitty is the source of the story? So it's not necessarily true.

Where is the part that you alleged that he said "lalalala"?

Then, after you said Joran placed his fingers in his ears and said "lalalala" you said "Wonder what the official term would be for severely stunted emotional growth? Or is that just part of the "sociopathic"/"psychopathic" profile?"

So is there some report besides Twitty? Is there any report from Twitty or anyone else wherein he said "lalalala"?

In your OP you said "Dutch special investigators", where was that alleged?

You use Joran's words as substantiation of what you deem to be "factual", even tho he admits that he would not believe a word that comes out of his mouth. Don't even have to say what Joran says is "not necessarily true", we know it is not true, yet you use his words as proof. ROTFLMAO

imo

[HiLife]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../23/ng.01.html

TWITTY: ...because in Aruba, it`s in your best interest just to continue lying. I think the only thing that a judge would do is maybe frown upon the lies.

No truer words were ever spoken!
imo

You're right - this is so true. The lying was in Joran's best interest, evidenced by the fact that they (ALE) never got a final, true version of how Joran arrived home the night Natalee disappeared. I mean, how could they let him go without even knowing such basic information??

How sad for the Holloway family that Aruba has lowered the bar on itself for such incompetence (good example about the McCann case in Portugal). That is what Aruba will forever be known for, at the expense of the Holloway family tragedy.

JMO

[ortiga]

So Twitty is the source of the story? So it's not necessarily true.

Where is the part that you alleged that he said "lalalala"?

Then, after you said Joran placed his fingers in his ears and said "lalalala" you said "Wonder what the official term would be for severely stunted emotional growth? Or is that just part of the "sociopathic"/"psychopathic" profile?"

So is there some report besides Twitty? Is there any report from Twitty or anyone else wherein he said "lalalala"?

In your OP you said "Dutch special investigators", where was that alleged?

You use Joran's words as substantiation of what you deem to be "factual", even tho he admits that he would not believe a word that comes out of his mouth. Don't even have to say what Joran says is "not necessarily true", we know it is not true, yet you use his words as proof. ROTFLMAO

imo

You're right - this is so true. The lying was in Joran's best interest, evidenced by the fact that they (ALE) never got a final, true version of how Joran arrived home the night Natalee disappeared. I mean, how could they let him go without even knowing such basic information??

How sad for the Holloway family that Aruba has lowered the bar on itself for such incompetence (good example about the McCann case in Portugal). That is what Aruba will forever be known for, at the expense of the Holloway family tragedy.

JMO

So where did you get this story, about the "la la la la"?

You said "I wonder what the Dutch special investigators thought/diagnosed when, IIRC, Joran stuck his fingers in his ears and started with the lalalalala when they questioned him? Wonder what the official term would be for severely stunted emotional growth? Or is that just part of the "sociopathic"/"psychopathic" profile?"

[Heyes]

You use Joran's words as substantiation of what you deem to be "factual", even tho he admits that he would not believe a word that comes out of his mouth. Don't even have to say what Joran says is "not necessarily true", we know it is not true, yet you use his words as proof. ROTFLMAO

imo


LOL LOL
This is what keeps the humor alive here at the boards. lol
but joran said........
joran said he lies, for no reason, just lies,
Oh yeah, but joran said........lol lol lol
joran is full of cowpatties, Natalee has been victimized over and over again by joran and by those that believe jorans lies.
imo



Hey Luke ya out there? Are you OK??
haven't seen ya in a coupe of days.
Hope everything is fine.

[HiLife]

LOL LOL
This is what keeps the humor alive here at the boards. lol
but joran said........
joran said he lies, for no reason, just lies,
Oh yeah, but joran said........lol lol lol

joran is full of cowpatties, Natalee has been victimized over and over again

by joran and by those that believe jorans lies.
imo



joran is full of cowpatties.............lololololol!!! LMBO!!!!!!!!!

The really funny part is the trying to reduce the mother of the victim to the same level as this murder suspect/sociopath/pathological liar. Yeah...."joran says...."

jmo

[ortiga]

joran is full of cowpatties.............lololololol!!! LMBO!!!!!!!!!

The really funny part is the trying to reduce the mother of the victim to the same level as this murder suspect/sociopath/pathological liar. Yeah...."joran says...."

jmo

Do you have any source whatsoever for Joran putting his fingers in his ears and saying lalalala while the Dutch special investigators questioned him? This is what you posted.

Is it completely made up, or do you have some reference, any reference?

[HiLife]

You use Joran's words as substantiation of what you deem to be "factual", even tho he admits that he would not believe a word that comes out of his mouth. Don't even have to say what Joran says is "not necessarily true", we know it is not true, yet you use his words as proof. ROTFLMAO

imo

While researching, I came across the fact that Joran first told investigators on June 9th about his size 14 shoes left on the beach. He then again told them about his size 14 K-Swiss in July. Then on Aug.2nd, he told the Dutch investigators he was wearing a similar pair of his lost K-Swiss he borrowed from some fellow inmate. When Joran put the shoe up on the table, it was a size 10.5!

They questioned him about this, and of course, got nowhere. Lie and lie and lie. Pathological, I tell ya!

:rolleyes:

jmo

BBL!

[Heyes]

While researching, I came across the fact that Joran first told investigators on June 9th about his size 14 shoes left on the beach. He then again told them about his size 14 K-Swiss in July. Then on Aug.2nd, he told the Dutch investigators he was wearing a similar pair of his lost K-Swiss he borrowed from some fellow inmate. When Joran put the shoe up on the table, it was a size 10.5!

They questioned him about this, and of course, got nowhere. Lie and lie and lie. Pathological, I tell ya!

:rolleyes:

jmo

BBL!



Oh oh, here's the defense on that one that I recieved.
He was talking european size. The 10 1/2 is the US size, The 14 is the Euro size. lol lol lol

UH..... A size 10.5, U.S. shoe is like a 44 in Euro. lol lol lol
Even when they know he's lying they agree with him. lmao lol lol lol
imo

[HiLife]

Oh oh, here's the defense on that one that I recieved.
He was talking european size. The 10 1/2 is the US size, The 14 is the Euro size. lol lol lol

UH..... A size 10.5, U.S. shoe is like a 44 in Euro. lol lol lol
Even when they know he's lying they agree with him. lmao lol lol lol
imo

LOL! Except that:

US 14 = 49.5 Europe = 13 English

US 10 = 43.0 Europe = 9 English

Not only that, but IIRC, didn't Anita or Joran say his K-Swiss were purchased in the U.S.? Tsk. Tsk. Yet another attempt/lie to try to throw the investigators off in the beginning by saying he had a size 14 shoe they should be looking for when he was really a 10? And these are just the lies we know about - imagine all the lies we don't know!

jmo

[Grandad]

As you know, NN, it is useless to provide links to those who have no interest in the truth. Picking and parsing is the name of the game. Even when reading in black and white, such as "psychopathic behaviors" - it is still argued.

Here is one link (no time to keep researching), and I am providing it to show that what the Family Supporters claim are TRUE. Rumors with no links as backup are usually what happens when we ask for substantiation from the Joran supporters, such as when we asked for link verification of Joran doing the jello shot off of Natalee (which was first claimed by a Joran supporter). We got nothing but a big IMO.

So here, once again, actual factual backup. But we know what will happen. ;)


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/ng.01.html

TWITTY: Oh, exactly, Nancy. And one thing that is so frustrating to us and -- there were so many times where Joran would just simply place his fingers in his ears because he was not going to answer anymore questions with the interrogators. I mean, he merely toyed with them over the summer. I mean, it`s just -- it`s so not true that Joran was interrogated on a daily basis over and over again. I mean, he -- you know, he gave the statements early on, but from then on, I mean, he was just advised either not to talk or, you know, continue to change his story because in Aruba, it`s in your best interest just to continue lying. I think the only thing that a judge would do is maybe frown upon the lies.

You're trying to palm off Beth Holloway Twitty/Twitty/Holloway, or whatever, as a credible source? Are you kidding?

[Chocoholic]

<snip>


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/ng.01.html

TWITTY: Oh, exactly, Nancy. And one thing that is so frustrating to us and -- there were so many times where Joran would just simply place his fingers in his ears because he was not going to answer anymore questions with the interrogators. I mean, he merely toyed with them over the summer. I mean, it`s just -- it`s so not true that Joran was interrogated on a daily basis over and over again. I mean, he -- you know, he gave the statements early on, but from then on, I mean, he was just advised either not to talk or, you know, continue to change his story because in Aruba, it`s in your best interest just to continue lying. I think the only thing that a judge would do is maybe frown upon the lies.

I didn't know that beth was privy to the being present at the interrogations. Don't mind if I chalk that up to another lie do you?

imo

[Grandad]

Even the credible Dutch agency think the kid is guilty, obviously.

<snip>imo

You have a link to this?

[Chocoholic]

While researching, I came across the fact that Joran first told investigators on June 9th about his size 14 shoes left on the beach. He then again told them about his size 14 K-Swiss in July. Then on Aug.2nd, he told the Dutch investigators he was wearing a similar pair of his lost K-Swiss he borrowed from some fellow inmate. When Joran put the shoe up on the table, it was a size 10.5!

They questioned him about this, and of course, got nowhere. Lie and lie and lie. Pathological, I tell ya!

:rolleyes:

jmo

BBL!

If this is a fact why is there no credible link?

[Heyes]

LOL! Except that:

US 14 = 49.5 Europe = 13 English

US 10 = 43.0 Europe = 9 English

Not only that, but IIRC, didn't Anita or Joran say his K-Swiss were purchased in the U.S.? Tsk. Tsk. Yet another attempt/lie to try to throw the investigators off in the beginning by saying he had a size 14 shoe they should be looking for when he was really a 10? And these are just the lies we know about - imagine all the lies we don't know!

jmo

yeah, I remember that I remember one of them saying he bought them in the U.S.
That family, anita. paulus and joran should of at the very least been charged with obstruction of justice. But... from what I can tell about that backwards, corrupt little tiny island is the only thing they get upset about is being called names. you can murder, rape, kidnap, hold tourists in drug houses, steal all their money, deal drugs right outside establishments. no problem all is well but heaven forbid you call anyone a name. I heard Beth say something about that, She had the support of all the locals, they backed Beth up, but the minute she called the kalpoes criminals they turned on her. Sure they probably had something to do with Natalee's death and hiding of her body, of course, but just don't call them names. :rolleyes:
That's were we are different, we have that old sticks and stones attitude, no matter what they say it's like water off a ducks back, HOWEVER we do not put up with murderers getting away with their crimes. We haven't gotten over O.J. and we are not going to get over joran. I bet anita is telling joran, don't worry baby this will blow over soon and then you'll be a celebrity in the states, it's all in the timing son. Nope anita NEVER, never will he recieve a warm reception here, he or his lousy family. The kalpoes???? I almost wish the Dr. Phil lawsuit would go forward so we can form a nice welcoming committee in Los Angeles, if they have the guts to show up. lmao!
by the way who is paying for all this legal action by the Kalpoes?? Obviously it's not them. That would be very interesting to know.
In my opinion

[Chocoholic]

Oh oh, here's the defense on that one that I recieved.
He was talking european size. The 10 1/2 is the US size, The 14 is the Euro size. lol lol lol

UH..... A size 10.5, U.S. shoe is like a 44 in Euro. lol lol lol
Even when they know he's lying they agree with him. lmao lol lol lol
imo

With the US loosing grounds on the Euro, the gap is only going to become larger.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=a3nh7CXba5To&refer=europe

[No Nic]

You're trying to palm off Beth Holloway Twitty/Twitty/Holloway, or whatever, as a credible source? Are you kidding?

Chapter 14 of Joran's book, as posted at "the virtual bible" of this case, Scrux.

As of July 3rd, 2005, Joran decided not to respond to questions. He feels that the police have used various techniques in order to trick him into trusting them.

In order to avoid answering the questions, Joran would concentrate on a spot on the wall, refuse to engage in social conversation and stick his fingers in his ears. In Joran’s opinion the police will use a “minor difference” between statements to justify further interrogation and incarceration.

http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=638

[HiLife]

Yet another substantiation: From Getagrip

Oh, and there are actual statements by Joran posted.

JMO

=====================

5.10.2006
Case of Natalee: report shows formal deceit
Joran van der Sloot’s feet grow and shrink almost 4 sizes from one day to the other
DIARIO Aruba
05/08/2006

<snipped>

..........From the copies of different police reports, today readers themselves can read how Joran van der Sloot, who until today for inexplicable reasons ‘supposedly’ left his expensive brand name running shoes at the beach on the night he was with Natalee, according to the version he gave police.

Police came up with the matter of the running shoes or it was Joran himself who started talking about the running shoes of an expensive brand name, size 14? From the police report of June 14, 2005, readers can read how Joran himself declared that he took off his size 14 running shoes and left them on the beach.

On June 29, 2005, he again repeated to police that he left his size 14 running shoes on the beach. The strange thing is that on August 2, 2005, after so many interrogations had already taken place, Joran van der Sloot in a car heading back to KIA, told a Dutch police officer who came to Aruba especially to interrogate the suspects, that Joran had on some K-Swiss running shoes that he borrowed from a fellow prisoner.

At no moment did the Dutch police officer ask Joran something, it was Joran himself who started talking with the police officer, as can been seen from the police report.

Now, the question is: was Joran brought from the first day to KIA shoeless and had no shoes to wear that it was a fellow prisoner who had to lend Joran a pair of running shoes?

Van der Sloot’s parents couldn’t bring shoes for Joran to wear, and someone from the prison had to lend him some shoes, and to top it all off they were K-Swiss brand?

By the way, at KIA they have to register, as in the majority of prisons around the world, what shoes and other belongings each person comes in with, yes or no? On August 8, 2005, the same Dutch police officer asked Joran to take off his shoe, which was a K-Swiss brand running shoe.

Joran asked to see his lawyer and wanted to find his lawyer’s support, but his lawyer didn’t even look at Joran and started to write (in local dialect, you deal with your problems!) After the Dutch police officer insisted, Joran took off the running shoe and handed it over across the table.

The police officer asked Joran how in the supposed day that he was with Natalee on the beach, he had size 14 K-Swiss running shoes, then how was the one that Joran put on the table size 10.5?

After Joran put his running shoe back on, the police pressed on the tip of the running shoes, and observed that the shoes were a good fit on Joran, and Joran didn’t react!

The matter of the size 14 K-Swiss running shoes is ‘too good to be true’. Was it the shark that Natalee supposedly wanted to see at the North shore that left with Joran van der Sloot’s size 14 running shoes?


// posted by Getagrip @ 5/10/2006 04:17:00 PM

[Chocoholic]

<snip> steal all their money, deal drugs right outside establishments. no problem <snip>

Lord knows the SGs weren't charged with being in the possession of stolen property of the MB students. :shrug: Least not that we know of.

[Chocoholic]

Yet another substantiation: From Getagrip

Oh, and there are actual statements by Joran posted.



// posted by Getagrip @ 5/10/2006 04:17:00 PM
I didn't know that Getagrip was a source to credible signed statements. No PDF files? Curious why you didn't post a link?

[HiLife]

Chapter 14 of Joran's book, as posted at "the virtual bible" of this case, Scrux.

Chapter 14 of Joran's book, as posted at "the virtual bible" of this case, Scrux.


Quote:
As of July 3rd, 2005, Joran decided not to respond to questions. He feels that the police have used various techniques in order to trick him into trusting them.

In order to avoid answering the questions, Joran would concentrate on a spot on the wall, refuse to engage in social conversation and stick his fingers in his ears. In Joran’s opinion the police will use a “minor difference” between statements to justify further interrogation and incarceration.


http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=638

Oh, my, my. PRICELESS! Thanks for this, NN! I didn't have time to conduct a proper search. Beth's word wasn't good enough. Do you think Joran will be believed? LOL!! My rule of thumb in believing Joran is, if he says something that is not in his best interest, then it is probably true! LOL!

In Joran's own words. Maybe I should thank Joran, too! :D

jmo

[Grandad]

Chapter 14 of Joran's book, as posted at "the virtual bible" of this case, Scrux.

http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=638

So where is the "lalalala?"

[HiLife]

I didn't know that Getagrip was a source to credible signed statements. No PDF files? Curious why you didn't post a link?

I will not invest my time in providing a link, only to be ridiculed and dismissed. Google is your friend. :)

jmo

[Chocoholic]

Oh, my, my. PRICELESS! Thanks for this, NN! I didn't have time to conduct a proper search. Beth's word wasn't good enough. Do you think Joran will be believed? LOL!! My rule of thumb in believing Joran is, if he says something that is not in his best interest, then it is probably true! LOL!

In Joran's own words. Maybe I should thank Joran, too! :D

jmo

That's supposed to be an excerpt from the book? LOL I didn't know the book had been translated. Scrux may have some good links, some of which have died due to old age.

BTW I think you misunderstood me. The bible to me can be a decent read, a good fairytale/horror story, but hardly holy to me. :biggrin:

[HiLife]

Lord knows the SGs weren't charged with being in the possession of stolen property of the MB students. :shrug: Least not that we know of.

They weren't. Until you provide a link, this will be chalked up as another scurrilous rumor.

jmo

[Chocoholic]

I will not invest my time in providing a link, only to be ridiculed and dismissed. Google is your friend. :)

jmo
Duly noted and reported. :)

[Grandad]

Yet another substantiation: From Getagrip

Oh, and there are actual statements by Joran posted.

JMO

=====================

5.10.2006
Case of Natalee: report shows formal deceit
Joran van der Sloot’s feet grow and shrink almost 4 sizes from one day to the other
DIARIO Aruba
05/08/2006

<snipped>



A report from Diario? On a par with Beth for credibility

They found all those phony witnesses. Hard to believe they couldn't find some bogus shoes.

[HiLife]

yeah, I remember that I remember one of them saying he bought them in the U.S.
That family, anita. paulus and joran should of at the very least been charged with obstruction of justice. But... from what I can tell about that backwards, corrupt little tiny island is the only thing they get upset about is being called names. you can murder, rape, kidnap, hold tourists in drug houses, steal all their money, deal drugs right outside establishments. no problem all is well but heaven forbid you call anyone a name. I heard Beth say something about that, She had the support of all the locals, they backed Beth up, but the minute she called the kalpoes criminals they turned on her. Sure they probably had something to do with Natalee's death and hiding of her body, of course, but just don't call them names. :rolleyes:
That's were we are different, we have that old sticks and stones attitude, no matter what they say it's like water off a ducks back, HOWEVER we do not put up with murderers getting away with their crimes. We haven't gotten over O.J. and we are not going to get over joran. I bet anita is telling joran, don't worry baby this will blow over soon and then you'll be a celebrity in the states, it's all in the timing son. Nope anita NEVER, never will he recieve a warm reception here, he or his lousy family. The kalpoes???? I almost wish the Dr. Phil lawsuit would go forward so we can form a nice welcoming committee in Los Angeles, if they have the guts to show up. lmao!
by the way who is paying for all this legal action by the Kalpoes?? Obviously it's not them. That would be very interesting to know.
In my opinion

Ugh. Can you believe that story on Getagrip?? Outrageous! I don't know how the Dutch investigators put up with Joran's lies. I don't know why Joran was allowed to get away with his outright lying. What good were they? Just a dog and pony show to show the world they cared - when they didn't. They fooled no one. Joran must be flying high in his own glory. Ready for his next act. *shudder*

You're right, Joran will never have the life of a "free" man - he will never be free from the suspicion he has brought upon himself and his family.

I believe the lawyers representing the Kalpoes here were seeing big $$$$ at the thought of suing Dr. Phil, even hoping for a quick settlement, and are therefore probably doing it on a contingency basis. Looks like that might backfire on them!

jmo

[Chocoholic]

They weren't. Until you provide a link, this will be chalked up as another scurrilous rumor.

jmo
It's all over the pro-beth sites. Arubadirtypolice, arubanboycott, Websleuths, but since those links are not allowed on this board I won't.

Surely if those pro-beth sites say it is true, it must be?

[Chocoholic]

Ugh. Can you believe that story on Getagrip?? Outrageous! <snip>

No, and I agree!

[HiLife]

A report from Diario? On a par with Beth for credibility

They found all those phony witnesses. Hard to believe they couldn't find some bogus shoes.

I believe when they find Natalee, they will find Joran's shoes. JMO

[HiLife]

It's all over the pro-beth sites. Arubadirtypolice, arubanboycott, Websleuths, but since those links are not allowed on this board I won't.

<snipped>


This is another reason why I didn't post the Getagrip link, not allowed. Yet you reported me? Please stop your harassment.

Nite! :seeya:

jmo

[Chocoholic]

This is another reason why I didn't post the Getagrip link, not allowed. Yet you reported me? Please stop your harassment.

Nite! :seeya:

jmo

So the sites are credible or not? Just want to get it cleared up? If Gretagrip states that it has somehow acquired Joran's statements and knows that the SG's reasons for detainment is stolen goods and having a hand in the disappearance of Natalee, then it must be true, no? One can't believe the truth of one statement but not the other, that would be hypocritical, or the people that post those statements are liars. Those sites are not my choice for the truth about this case.

imo

[Grandad]

I believe when they find Natalee, they will find Joran's shoes. JMO

You think she stole them?

[Heyes]

Yet another substantiation: From Getagrip

Oh, and there are actual statements by Joran posted.

JMO

=====================

5.10.2006
Case of Natalee: report shows formal deceit
Joran van der Sloot’s feet grow and shrink almost 4 sizes from one day to the other
DIARIO Aruba
05/08/2006

<snipped>

..........From the copies of different police reports, today readers themselves can read how Joran van der Sloot, who until today for inexplicable reasons ‘supposedly’ left his expensive brand name running shoes at the beach on the night he was with Natalee, according to the version he gave police.

Police came up with the matter of the running shoes or it was Joran himself who started talking about the running shoes of an expensive brand name, size 14? From the police report of June 14, 2005, readers can read how Joran himself declared that he took off his size 14 running shoes and left them on the beach.

On June 29, 2005, he again repeated to police that he left his size 14 running shoes on the beach. The strange thing is that on August 2, 2005, after so many interrogations had already taken place, Joran van der Sloot in a car heading back to KIA, told a Dutch police officer who came to Aruba especially to interrogate the suspects, that Joran had on some K-Swiss running shoes that he borrowed from a fellow prisoner.

At no moment did the Dutch police officer ask Joran something, it was Joran himself who started talking with the police officer, as can been seen from the police report.

Now, the question is: was Joran brought from the first day to KIA shoeless and had no shoes to wear that it was a fellow prisoner who had to lend Joran a pair of running shoes?

Van der Sloot’s parents couldn’t bring shoes for Joran to wear, and someone from the prison had to lend him some shoes, and to top it all off they were K-Swiss brand?

By the way, at KIA they have to register, as in the majority of prisons around the world, what shoes and other belongings each person comes in with, yes or no? On August 8, 2005, the same Dutch police officer asked Joran to take off his shoe, which was a K-Swiss brand running shoe.

Joran asked to see his lawyer and wanted to find his lawyer’s support, but his lawyer didn’t even look at Joran and started to write (in local dialect, you deal with your problems!) After the Dutch police officer insisted, Joran took off the running shoe and handed it over across the table.

The police officer asked Joran how in the supposed day that he was with Natalee on the beach, he had size 14 K-Swiss running shoes, then how was the one that Joran put on the table size 10.5?

After Joran put his running shoe back on, the police pressed on the tip of the running shoes, and observed that the shoes were a good fit on Joran, and Joran didn’t react!

The matter of the size 14 K-Swiss running shoes is ‘too good to be true’. Was it the shark that Natalee supposedly wanted to see at the North shore that left with Joran van der Sloot’s size 14 running shoes?


// posted by Getagrip @ 5/10/2006 04:17:00 PM


And there are a hundred things joran lies about, just like this. imo
It is so obvious to me that this guy is involved with Natalee's murder.
Thanks to anita's attempt at pr with greta, I'm thinking that we have not heard the last from the vandersloots. Nope. This little murder suspect and his family remind me alot of the Petersons. There is just no shame. The sad thing is, I bet joran barely even deals with any of this. My guess is he's off schooling, woman chasing and boozing. possibly some windshields in the neighborhood have needed replacement.
Remember, anita said.
We cannot even approach him.
This brought back "emotions".
The kid has anger problems, imo. He was seeing someone professionally for this, right?. He will do something stupid again, it's just how he's wired.
In my opinion.

[Chocoholic]

And there are a hundred things joran lies about, just like this. imo
It is so obvious to me that this guy is involved with Natalee's murder.
Thanks to anita's attempt at pr with greta, I'm thinking that we have not heard the last from the vandersloots. Nope. This little murder suspect and his family remind me alot of the Petersons. There is just no shame. The sad thing is, I bet joran barely even deals with any of this. My guess is he's off schooling, woman chasing and boozing. possibly some windshields in the neighborhood have needed replacement.
Remember, anita said.
We cannot even approach him.
This brought back "emotions".
The kid has anger problems, imo. He was seeing someone professionally for this, right?. He will do something stupid again, it's just how he's wired.
In my opinion.

A Word on Secret Evidence
Here at CLD we are often confronted with claims of "secret evidence" that if known would provide proof of innocence etc.....

This claim is a blatant attempt to change a serious discussion into nothing more than a farce. It is considered derailing behavior and may result in being perm banned from the discussion.

The rules governing our community are clear - if you are stating something as a fact or even representing something as a fact it needs to be sources. Claiming secret sources is not sufficient to assert any claim.


Adding up the points
If a member receives 5 active infraction there will be a 10 vacation from CL.
Accumulating 10 points results in a 1 month vacation
Once a member reaches 15 points they can be banned permanently

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=280560

There is no evidence of a crime. Please post a credibly link with proof that Natalee was "brutally gangraped, kidnapped and murdered". Please post a link to Joran's "womanizing".

[ortiga]

clipped

I wonder what the Dutch special investigators thought/diagnosed when, IIRC, Joran stuck his fingers in his ears and started with the lalalalala when they questioned him? Wonder what the official term would be for severely stunted emotional growth? Or is that just part of the "sociopathic"/"psychopathic" profile?

JMO

I never did see the source of that rumor, maybe the OP could let us know if that story came from Twitty, Dompig, the FBI, or who. Also if the la la la was part of the original report.

As you know, NN, it is useless to provide links to those who have no interest in the truth. Picking and parsing is the name of the game. Even when reading in black and white, such as "psychopathic behaviors" - it is still argued.

Here is one link (no time to keep researching), and I am providing it to show that what the Family Supporters claim are TRUE. Rumors with no links as backup are usually what happens when we ask for substantiation from the Joran supporters, such as when we asked for link verification of Joran doing the jello shot off of Natalee (which was first claimed by a Joran supporter). We got nothing but a big IMO.

So here, once again, actual factual backup. But we know what will happen. ;)


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/ng.01.html

TWITTY: Oh, exactly, Nancy. And one thing that is so frustrating to us and -- there were so many times where Joran would just simply place his fingers in his ears because he was not going to answer anymore questions with the interrogators. I mean, he merely toyed with them over the summer. I mean, it`s just -- it`s so not true that Joran was interrogated on a daily basis over and over again. I mean, he -- you know, he gave the statements early on, but from then on, I mean, he was just advised either not to talk or, you know, continue to change his story because in Aruba, it`s in your best interest just to continue lying. I think the only thing that a judge would do is maybe frown upon the lies.

So Twitty is the source of the story? So it's not necessarily true.

Where is the part that you alleged that he said "lalalala"?

Then, after you said Joran placed his fingers in his ears and said "lalalala" you said "Wonder what the official term would be for severely stunted emotional growth? Or is that just part of the "sociopathic"/"psychopathic" profile?"

So is there some report besides Twitty? Is there any report from Twitty or anyone else wherein he said "lalalala"?

In your OP you said "Dutch special investigators", where was that alleged?

Do you have any source whatsoever for Joran putting his fingers in his ears and saying lalalala while the Dutch special investigators questioned him? This is what you posted.

Is it completely made up, or do you have some reference, any reference?

So where is the "lalalala?"

So, High Life, did you make up the part about "la la la la"....?

You then said, based on Joran's supposed uttering of "la la la la"..........."Wonder what the official term would be for severely stunted emotional growth? Or is that just part of the "sociopathic"/"psychopathic" profile?"

HiLife you are the one always demanding links.....your turn at the bat.

[ortiga]

And there are a hundred things joran lies about, just like this. imo
It is so obvious to me that this guy is involved with Natalee's murder. Thanks to anita's attempt at pr with greta, I'm thinking that we have not heard the last from the vandersloots. Nope. This little murder suspect and his family remind me alot of the Petersons. There is just no shame. The sad thing is, I bet joran barely even deals with any of this. My guess is he's off schooling, woman chasing and boozing. possibly some windshields in the neighborhood have needed replacement.
Remember, anita said.
We cannot even approach him.
This brought back "emotions".
The kid has anger problems, imo. He was seeing someone professionally for this, right?. He will do something stupid again, it's just how he's wired.
In my opinion.

Natalee's "murder"? When did that occur? You said "It is so obvious to me that this guy is involved with Natalee's murder."

Please provide proof that Anita attempted PR with Greta. The fact is that GRETA announced on her blog on FOX that Anita had wanted to speak to Beth. There was no attempt at PR by Anita that we know of. Unless, of course, you can provide a link to Anita's trying to get PR?

So....murder....Anita and PR.....waiting for your links, please.

[fairmaiden]

yeah, I remember that I remember one of them saying he bought them in the U.S.
That family, anita. paulus and joran should of at the very least been charged with obstruction of justice. But... from what I can tell about that backwards, corrupt little tiny island is the only thing they get upset about is being called names. you can murder, rape, kidnap, hold tourists in drug houses, steal all their money, deal drugs right outside establishments. no problem all is well but heaven forbid you call anyone a name. I heard Beth say something about that, She had the support of all the locals, they backed Beth up, but the minute she called the kalpoes criminals they turned on her. Sure they probably had something to do with Natalee's death and hiding of her body, of course, but just don't call them names. :rolleyes:
That's were we are different, we have that old sticks and stones attitude, no matter what they say it's like water off a ducks back, HOWEVER we do not put up with murderers getting away with their crimes. We haven't gotten over O.J. and we are not going to get over joran. I bet anita is telling joran, don't worry baby this will blow over soon and then you'll be a celebrity in the states, it's all in the timing son. Nope anita NEVER, never will he recieve a warm reception here, he or his lousy family. The kalpoes???? I almost wish the Dr. Phil lawsuit would go forward so we can form a nice welcoming committee in Los Angeles, if they have the guts to show up. lmao!
by the way who is paying for all this legal action by the Kalpoes?? Obviously it's not them. That would be very interesting to know.
In my opinion

....... And THIS is what you call "legitimate debate" ???? WOW .... I don't think I've seen so much "rhetoric" in my life.

By the way, Heyes .... Who IS the "we" you refer to ??

JMO

[fairmaiden]

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=280560

There is no evidence of a crime. Please post a credibly link with proof that Natalee was "brutally gangraped, kidnapped and murdered". Please post a link to Joran's "womanizing".

Morning Choco ....

Just my humble opinion .... but I think you and I both know, you're not going to get that credible link . Why ?? Because there IS none.

This was part of the discussion the other day ....you know, how "Natalee didn't deserve to be kidnapped, raped, and murdered", because she had allegedly given Joran a jello shot. It is thrown out there as if it were a FACT in this case .... when we ((all of us)) know it isn't.

JMO

[Chocoholic]

Morning Choco ....

Just my humble opinion .... but I think you and I both know, you're not going to get that credible link . Why ?? Because there IS none.

This was part of the discussion the other day ....you know, how "Natalee didn't deserve to be kidnapped, raped, and murdered", because she had allegedly given Joran a jello shot. It is thrown out there as if it were a FACT in this case .... when we ((all of us)) know it isn't.

JMO


Goodmorning FM. I've said many a time, many things are stated as fact on this board covered by a perfunctory "imo" or "jmo" when there is no basis of fact.

Such as:

- Joran has anger management issues
- Joran was receiving professional help for above
- Joran killed his dog
- Anita and Paul have "certain" marital arrangements hence their "separate" vacations
- Joran slept overnight at his school just after the "murder" of Nat
- Signed confessions on Getagrip
- Suspects were charged

I could go on and on but that would be boring.

I saw a few interesting posts. Somebody stated that there must have been plenty of evidence considering that Joran and the Kalpoes were held in prison. The same system held the security guards. Was the Aruban system only corrupt when it held the security guards? Was the Aruban system only corrupt when it held persons of interest that were not Joran and the Kalpoes? And when Joran and the Kalpoes were released was the system only then corrupt?

Was the system corrupt when Joran was beaten during interrogation, or was that in the eyes of some justified? Was the system corrupt when it let ABC reporters into the prison - the tapes which were never publicized - or was the system only corrupt when it decided not to press charges against Jug for assaulting Julia Renfro?

If the Aruban system is corrupt, why is the FBI covering up? They still have Natalee listed as being missing and they even put this daring paragraph in at the bottom of the description:

It should be noted that this information is provided for investigative purposes only and no accusations of guilt or criminal involvement are inferred. No person(s) has been charged in Natalee Holloway's disappearance, and under United States law all persons are considered innocent until proven guilty.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seekinfo/holloway.htm

No accusations of guilt?
No criminal involvement is inferred?
Nobody has been charged?
People are innocent until proven guilty?

What a concept!

If information from blogs is credible at some times, when is it not credible? At the reader's discretion? LOL

imo

[fairmaiden]

Goodmorning FM. I've said many a time, many things are stated as fact on this board covered by a perfunctory "imo" or "jmo" when there is no basis of fact.

Such as:

- Joran has anger management issues
- Joran was receiving professional help for above
- Joran killed his dog
- Anita and Paul have "certain" marital arrangements hence their "separate" vacations
- Joran slept overnight at his school just after the "murder" of Nat
- Signed confessions on Getagrip
- Suspects were charged

I could go on and on but that would be boring.

I saw a few interesting posts. Somebody stated that there must have been plenty of evidence considering that Joran and the Kalpoes were held in prison. The same system held the security guards. Was the Aruban system only corrupt when it held the security guards? Was the Aruban system only corrupt when it held persons of interest that were not Joran and the Kalpoes? And when Joran and the Kalpoes were released was the system only then corrupt?

Was the system corrupt when Joran was beaten during interrogation, or was that in the eyes of some justified? Was the system corrupt when it let ABC reporters into the prison - the tapes which were never publicized - or was the system only corrupt when it decided not to press charges against Jug for assaulting Julia Renfro?

If the Aruban system is corrupt, why is the FBI covering up? They still have Natalee listed as being missing and they even put this daring paragraph in at the bottom of the description:



http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seekinfo/holloway.htm

No accusations of guilt?
No criminal involvement is inferred?
Nobody has been charged?
People are innocent until proven guilty?

What a concept!

If information from blogs is credible at some times, when is it not credible? At the reader's discretion? LOL

imo

All great questions, Choco. Somehow, in THIS particular case .... it's not necessary to have proof. We ((all of us)) only need to know what Natalee's mother SAYS is true .... that should be enough for all of us :rolleyes: We ((all of us)) need to read a book written by Natalee's mother, and everything will suddenly become VERY clear to us !!

"Hate sites" are discussed on the board very often. How are those "hate sites" determined? Doesn't it depend on which side of the fence you stand?? I agree with you totally, when it comes to the "credibility" of ANY site . It totally depends on how you look at this case.

What bothers me more than anything else is to be told that Beth went through this horrible ordeal, and THAT makes HER beyond reproach. Many have gone through horrible ordeals, and still remain consistent when asked simple questions.

However, Beth's "inconsistences" are somehow permissable.:rolleyes:

JMO

[No Nic]

....... And THIS is what you call "legitimate debate" ???? WOW .... I don't think I've seen so much "rhetoric" in my life.

By the way, Heyes .... Who IS the "we" you refer to ??

JMO

Morning Choco ....

<snipped> It is thrown out there as if it were a FACT in this case .... when we ((all of us)) know it isn't.

JMO

<snipped> We ((all of us)) only need to know what Natalee's mother SAYS is true .... that should be enough for all of us :rolleyes: We ((all of us)) need to read a book written by Natalee's mother, and everything will suddenly become VERY clear to us !!

<snipped>
JMO

By the way, Fair....Who IS the "we ((all of us))" you refer to ?? :rolleyes:

[Grandad]

<snip>

Somebody stated that there must have been plenty of evidence considering that Joran and the Kalpoes were held in prison.

<snip>


This has been explained hundreds of times, but maybe it will make an impression on some since it's a quote from the attorney of one of the security guards: "Under Aruban law, only serious suspicion from investigators — not solid evidence — is needed for a judge to rule that suspects can be held, Pietersz said."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8079019/

There are a few other interesting things in the article which appeared before the spin campaign got into full gear.

[fairmaiden]

By the way, Fair....Who IS the "we ((all of us))" you refer to ?? :rolleyes:

I thought it was self-explanatory, No Nic . How many ways can you interpret "ALL of us". By the way, I may not agree with JMO on many things .... however, I DO agree with her/him when he/she asks that question often. "Who is we .... who is they .... who is us?" To put a blanket statement ((as Heyes did in the post I referenced)), made it seem unclear as to who the "we" were .

ETA .... By the way, No Nic .... are you privy to the facts in this case ?? Are you privy to the FACTS surrounding the statement .... "Natalee did not deserve to be kidnapped, raped and murdered"?? If this IS a FACT out there somewhere, I really WOULD like to know.

JMO

[ortiga]

I thought it was self-explanatory, No Nic . How many ways can you interpret "ALL of us". By the way, I may not agree with JMO on many things .... however, I DO agree with her/him when he/she asks that question often. "Who is we .... who is they .... who is us?" To put a blanket statement ((as Heyes did in the post I referenced)), made it seem innocuous as to who the "we" were .

ETA .... By the way, No Nic .... are you privy to the facts in this case ?? Are you privy to the FACTS surrounding the statement .... "Natalee did not deserve to be kidnapped, raped and murdered"?? If this IS a FACT out there somewhere, I really WOULD like to know.

JMO

It WAS self-explanatory.

As opposed to the "WE" that was going to form a "welcoming Committee" for the Kalpoes in that post you quoted. :rolleyes:

IMO an out and out threat.

[No Nic]

I thought it was self-explanatory, No Nic . How many ways can you interpret "ALL of us". By the way, I may not agree with JMO on many things .... however, I DO agree with her/him when he/she asks that question often. "Who is we .... who is they .... who is us?" To put a blanket statemen