Awaiting Re-trial

[TobyTiger]

SPECTOR GETS THREE WEEKS TO FIND NEW LAWYERS (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-spector5oct04,0,2135116.story?coll=la-home-local)

Judge says he wants retrial to start in four months, but music producer's attorneys -- three of whom are leaving the case -- say it will be tough to prepare that quickly. Next hearing is Oct. 23.


By Greg Krikorian, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
12:23 PM PDT, October 3, 2007


Only days after a jury deadlocked on whether to convict Phil Spector of murder, plans for his retrial got underway today with talk of a new defense team to defend the famed music producer against charges that he shot actress Lana Clarkson in his Alhambra mansion four years ago.

With three members of Spector's current defense team leaving the case, Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Larry Paul Fidler set a hearing on Oct. 23 for Spector to appear with new attorneys. A half-dozen attorneys, whose identities are unknown, are said to be in discussions with Spector about taking over the case.

During the brief court hearing, Fidler made it clear he will want Spector's new counsel to be ready for trial in less than the six months his current attorneys say will be needed to adequately prepared a defense.

Last week, Fidler declared a mistrial in the nearly six-month-long case after a jury ended 12 days of deliberation in deadlock. Jurors said they were split 10-2 in favor of convicting Spector of second-degree murder, the only charge they were allowed to consider.

Three of the jurors later told reporters that prosecutors convinced most of the jury that Spector, 67, shot Clarkson when she tried to leave his home in the early morning hours of Feb. 3, 2003. The three jurors also said that the lone holdouts against conviction were persuaded by defense theories that Clarkson could have shot herself--accidentally or on purpose--particularly after the prosecution decided not to provide a detailed psychological analysis of Clarkson to rebut that possibility.

At today's court hearing, Roger J. Rosen, who had been Spector's lead lawyer for much of the trial, formally announced he would not continue with the case. Also leaving the case before the retrial will be lawyers Linda Kenney Baden and Bradley Brunon.

Only Christopher J. Plourd and Dennis Riordan are expecting to stay on the team, though Plourd told the judge the status of any holdover attorneys will depend on the wishes of Spector's new lead counsel.

Plourd also told Fidler that it could be difficult to find any attorneys who will be free of other cases and capable enough to be ready for a retrial in the four months sought by the judge.

"Good lawyers are going to be busy," Plourd said.

He asked the judge to consider a new trial date of at least six months off to allow Spector's next defense team to adequately review a mountain of competing evidence in the case.

Spector already has been through 10 lawyers--including well known criminal attorneys Leslie Abramson, Robert Shapiro and Bruce Cutler--since he was first accused of murder.

Outside court, Rosen said he agreed with Spector's decision to seek new lawyers in the retrial who can provide "new eyes and ears" in the case.

"I have fulfilled my responsibility and obligation to Phil," Rosen said. "And I have other clients and I think it is the right thing to do in terms of turning my attention to them."

[puppies]

you can change your lawyers but you cant change the facts,phil;) ;)

[Heyes]

Enter Mark Geragos.......LMAO!

[TobyTiger]

you can change your lawyers but you cant change the facts,phil;) ;)

And he's already gone through HOW MANY attorneys???
:rolleyes:

[TobyTiger]

Enter Mark Geragos.......LMAO!

Right...one of the few who hasn't represented Spector since Feb. 3, 2003.

At least Judge Fidler has set a time limit for him to retain new counsel and doesn't want the re-trial delayed any longer than absolutely necessary.

[Heyes]

Right...one of the few who hasn't represented Spector since Feb. 3, 2003.

At least Judge Fidler has set a time limit for him to retain new counsel and doesn't want the re-trial delayed any longer than absolutely necessary.

I was happy to hear that too. I wish the time was shorter. I just know that whoever represents spector will file motion after motion to delay the case as it is.
Have we heard anything else from any of the other jurors?

[TobyTiger]

I was happy to hear that too. I wish the time was shorter. I just know that whoever represents spector will file motion after motion to delay the case as it is.
Have we heard anything else from any of the other jurors?
First of all, the new legal team will have to go over the entire case, including all testimony and evidence from the first trial. They will also have to decide what their defense is and what witnesses to call. Then, there will be the motions you have mentioned.

I haven't heard anything new re: the jurors since their interviews immediately after the mistrial. There is an order in place that they are not to be profiting from the trial (i.e. books) for 90 days.

[puppies]

And he's already gone through HOW MANY attorneys???
:rolleyes:

that was a sign for me...and i never noticed in other cases such a lack of interest from defence attorneys IMO

[TobyTiger]

that was a sign for me...and i never noticed in other cases such a lack of interest from defence attorneys IMO
It's a defense attorney's nightmare: a demanding client telling them what to do at every step and literally no defense with the State being able to bring in the prior bad acts witnesses.

[puppies]

maybe my questions will sound stupid,but i dont know that much about the system:o


is judge Fidler gonna be the judge in the second trial?
what about the prosecution?
what about the evidence?witnesses?

Thanx in advance:)

[TobyTiger]

maybe my questions will sound stupid,but i dont know that much about the system:o


is judge Fidler gonna be the judge in the second trial?
what about the prosecution?
what about the evidence?witnesses?

Thanx in advance:)
Not stupid questions at all!

The Judge remains through the re-trial.

It is expected the State will use the same prosecutors.

As to your third question, I assume you're referring to the State's evidence and witnesses....that part should remain the same also, assuming Spector's defense is still going to be that Ms. Clarkson committed suicide. I do believe Spector's new team of lawyers will file motions to exclude the PBA witnesses, however, they probably will be as successful with that as his last team was. They may also add some expert testimony in forensic psychology.

[puppies]

Not stupid questions at all!

The Judge remains through the re-trial.

It is expected the State will use the same prosecutors.

As to your third question, I assume you're referring to the State's evidence and witnesses....that part should remain the same also, assuming Spector's defense is still going to be that Ms. Clarkson committed suicide. I do believe Spector's new team of lawyers will file motions to exclude the PBA witnesses, however, they probably will be as successful with that as his last team was. They may also add some expert testimony in forensic psychology.

thanx.this will be interesting to watch.was it true that they found her fingerprints on the bullets?i found that interesting(dunno if it's true or was it just a rumour).whose fingerprints were found on the gun?i found it also weird that the gun was found on her right side and she was left-handed.am i correct?but you gave me good news.i really liked the way Fidler "handled" this trial:cool:

[TobyTiger]

thanx.this will be interesting to watch.was it true that they found her fingerprints on the bullets?i found that interesting(dunno if it's true or was it just a rumour).whose fingerprints were found on the gun?i found it also weird that the gun was found on her right side and she was left-handed.am i correct?but you gave me good news.i really liked the way Fidler "handled" this trial:cool:
Lana's DNA was on part of the bullets... blood, not fingerprints. Spector wiped the gun down...no fingerprints. The gun was found under Lana's left leg (near her foot). She was right-handed.

Yes, the good news is that Judge Fidler will preside over the re-trial.
:patriot:

[Heyes]

First of all, the new legal team will have to go over the entire case, including all testimony and evidence from the first trial. They will also have to decide what their defense is and what witnesses to call. Then, there will be the motions you have mentioned.

I haven't heard anything new re: the jurors since their interviews immediately after the mistrial. There is an order in place that they are not to be profiting from the trial (i.e. books) for 90 days.

Thanks for the info. So in a couple of months we may have some new info from the jurors. That might be interesting. It'll be facinating to see what creeps or should I say who creeps out of the woodwork between now and the retrial.
I also was going to ask you about the judge. Thanks to puppies for asking the question. :seeya:

[puppies]

Lana's DNA was on part of the bullets... blood, not fingerprints. Spector wiped the gun down...no fingerprints. The gun was found under Lana's left leg (near her foot). She was right-handed.

Yes, the good news is that Judge Fidler will preside over the re-trial.
:patriot:


oops.i messed up a bit:o i tried to follow as much as possible.hopefully next time i will be able to watch more of it.
well,if he wiped the gun down then he wasnt as messed up as i thought.hm."i THINK i killed someone"made me wonder if he was "on the right planet" at that time.but i guess he realized what he did and tried to clean the mess up.

[TobyTiger]

Thanks for the info. So in a couple of months we may have some new info from the jurors. That might be interesting. It'll be facinating to see what creeps or should I say who creeps out of the woodwork between now and the retrial.
I also was going to ask you about the judge. Thanks to puppies for asking the question. :seeya:
It will be especially interesting to see who Spector chooses as counsel, and what defense they will use. I agree with your what crawls out of the woodwork comment...if it's referring to witnesses such as Pie.
:rolleyes: <---what was the defense thinking!

[TobyTiger]

oops.i messed up a bit:o i tried to follow as much as possible.hopefully next time i will be able to watch more of it.
well,if he wiped the gun down then he wasnt as messed up as i thought.hm."i THINK i killed someone"made me wonder if he was "on the right planet" at that time.but i guess he realized what he did and tried to clean the mess up.
No problem! However, as to Spector's statement, to me it's clearly an admission of his guilt that he pulled the trigger, with the only question being (in his mind) whether she was dead or not.

[Heyes]

No problem! However, as to Spector's statement, to me it's clearly an admission of his guilt that he pulled the trigger, with the only question being (in his mind) whether she was dead or not.
Yeah! considering he was holding the gun with blood on his hands. :rolleyes:
such a no brainer. This defense and the verdict disgusted most people I would think. The victory dance didn't help. That wife of his is perfect for him, looks to me like she has as many screws loose as he has. He didn't look like he wanted to respond to her in the same, um, animalistic? lol, fashion. So maybe she'll be safe there. lol. But hey after a night of drugs and drinking, he may respond in kind and it could be that she's next. That is his pattern.
IMO

[TobyTiger]

Yeah! considering he was holding the gun with blood on his hands. :rolleyes:
such a no brainer. This defense and the verdict disgusted most people I would think. The victory dance didn't help. That wife of his is perfect for him, looks to me like she has as many screws loose as he has. He didn't look like he wanted to respond to her in the same, um, animalistic? lol, fashion. So maybe she'll be safe there. lol. But hey after a night of drugs and drinking, he may respond in kind and it could be that she's next. That is his pattern.
IMO
That disgusting video reminded me of Simpson's "Acquittal Party". Forget that someone tragically died...whether it be Ron and Nicole or Lana Clarkson. At least the State gets another chance with Spector.

[Heyes]

That disgusting video reminded me of Simpson's "Acquittal Party". Forget that someone tragically died...whether it be Ron and Nicole or Lana Clarkson. At least the State gets another chance with Spector.

Yeah murderers seem to throw themselves a nice big party. :rolleyes:
IIRC jayson williams threw a little get together to celebrate his freedom after he slaughtered his driver. He too was supposed to be retried ......but it hasn't happened and no one seems in a hurry to lock that creep up.

IMO

[TobyTiger]

Yeah murderers seem to throw themselves a nice big party. :rolleyes:
IIRC jayson williams threw a little get together to celebrate his freedom after he slaughtered his driver. He too was supposed to be retried ......but it hasn't happened and no one seems in a hurry to lock that creep up.

IMO

It appears with Williams' case that the DA is content with the verdict of guilty on the one charge he was convicted of (covering up the death of the driver), or has reached a plea agreement on the reckless manslaughter charge. I haven't heard any word (recently) what's going on with that case.

I do believe Spector's case will be another matter entirely. Judge Fidler seems to be determined to get this re-trial going as soon as possible and the LA DA's office does also.

[puppies]

Yeah! considering he was holding the gun with blood on his hands. :rolleyes:
such a no brainer. This defense and the verdict disgusted most people I would think. The victory dance didn't help. That wife of his is perfect for him, looks to me like she has as many screws loose as he has. He didn't look like he wanted to respond to her in the same, um, animalistic? lol, fashion. So maybe she'll be safe there. lol. But hey after a night of drugs and drinking, he may respond in kind and it could be that she's next. That is his pattern.
IMO


first i thought,oh,poor guy,after such a mix of drugs and alcohol he probably wasn't aware of what he was doing.but i changed my mind. you have to take responsability for your actions.period

[TobyTiger]

first i thought,oh,poor guy,after such a mix of drugs and alcohol he probably wasn't aware of what he was doing.but i changed my mind. you have to take responsability for your actions.period

Exactly. This also, was an established pattern of behavior with him....throughout many years, and not just with women.

[puppies]

Exactly. This also, was an established pattern of behavior with him....throughout many years, and not just with women.


true.i dont think any of those women were making up stories

[TobyTiger]

true.i dont think any of those women were making up stories

From what I understand, there were several others who the State didn't call at trial. Too many....but thankfully THEY are alive.

[puppies]

From what I understand, there were several others who the State didn't call at trial. Too many....but thankfully THEY are alive.


actually this was even a bit ridiculous.this guy clearly had a history of threatening women with a gun.what do you need more?:rolleyes:

[TobyTiger]

actually this was even a bit ridiculous.this guy clearly had a history of threatening women with a gun.what do you need more?:rolleyes:

The two jurors who voted NG must not have remembered a few things:

Spector's house...
Spector's gun...
Lana hadn't met Spector before that night...
How would Lana know where the gun was kept?

[puppies]

The two jurors who voted NG must not have remembered a few things:

Spector's house...
Spector's gun...
Lana hadn't met Spector before that night...
How would Lana know where the gun was kept?


maybe he showed off with it:rolleyes:

as i remember those 2 jurors said they couldn't place the gun in his hand,am i correct?im not sure...

[TobyTiger]

maybe he showed off with it:rolleyes:

as i remember those 2 jurors said they couldn't place the gun in his hand,am i correct?im not sure...

Essentially that would be their belief, but I recall only one of the jurors who voted NG (the foreman) was interviewed.

[fairmaiden]

I was happy to hear that too. I wish the time was shorter. I just know that whoever represents spector will file motion after motion to delay the case as it is.
Have we heard anything else from any of the other jurors?

Heyes .... I think you and I might be in agreement on this one. I do believe you're right when you say Spector will try to delay this as long as he can. I don't believe Judge Fidler is going to allow him to get away with it. From what I've seen of him on this case .... he doesn't put up with any nonsense.

JMO

[Heyes]

Heyes .... I think you and I might be in agreement on this one. I do believe you're right when you say Spector will try to delay this as long as he can. I don't believe Judge Fidler is going to allow him to get away with it. From what I've seen of him on this case .... he doesn't put up with any nonsense.

JMO

Yeah!!! we agree!!!! lol
I'm with you Fair.
I like this judge and I'm hoping he will be able to be the one that is on the bench for the second round. So far, so good.

[TobyTiger]

SPECTOR IN TALKS TO HIRE NEW LAWYERS (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g93Q_UR0CRpFh-FS-4UbHXxI-dvA)

LOS ANGELES — Phil Spector has narrowed his search for a new lead attorney for his second murder trial to an unidentified California lawyer, the music producer's remaining lawyer told the trial judge Monday.

Superior Court Judge Larry Paul Fidler read two reports submitted by attorney Christopher Plourd but kept them sealed because they detail Spector's financial negotiations with a number of lawyers since his first trial ended with a jury deadlocked last month.

Negotiations are continuing, Plourd said.

"I want Mr. Spector to be comfortable with this attorney," the judge said, granting a delay until Nov. 6 for an appearance by a new lawyer. The judge said it will likely take more than 60 days after that date for a new lawyer to prepare for trial.

Spector, 67, is accused of murdering actress Lana Clarkson, 40, on Feb. 3, 2003, at his mansion. Fidler declared a mistrial on Sept. 26 when jurors deadlocked 10-2, with the majority favoring conviction, following a six-month trial.

Members of Spector's previous defense team either resigned or were dismissed after the mistrial.

Spector has had trouble finding a new lead attorney who would be free to try the case in a relatively short time, Plourd said, noting that criminal defense lawyers' schedules often are filled for a year or more in advance.

"This person had something open up unexpectedly," Plourd said.

Plourd, a San Diego lawyer who participated in Spector's first trial, said he plans to stay on to handle forensic evidence. But he has two capital murder cases on his schedule before he can step back into Spector's case.

more at the link

[Elfinrow]

Has anyone heard who the new atty is that was to be appointed to the case today? There was some chatter that the hearing would be shown on Ktla today but there was nothing. We still dont know who Mr or Mrs X Atty is for PS.
If you hear will you pm me please? TIA

Elf:tongue:

[TobyTiger]

LAWYER IN TALKS WITH SPECTOR OVER RETRIAL REPRESENTATION (http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_7385620?nclick_check=1)

LOS ANGELES—Phil Spector may have a new lawyer for his murder retrial, but the decision isn't final according to the attorney who told a judge Tuesday he is trying to establish "a relationship of trust" with the legendary rock music producer.

"Mr. Spector and I have been in contact and I think we are well on the way to resolving the issue of representation in retrial," veteran San Francisco attorney Doran Weinberg told Superior Court Judge Larry Paul Fidler. "There's an issue of establishing a relationship of trust based on the previous case."

Spector fired some of his lawyers after his first jury deadlocked 10-2 for conviction in September and a mistrial was declared. Other lawyers from the original team opted out of representing him on the new case. His original lead lawyer, Bruce Cutler, had left the case early after taking an extended leave to film a TV show.

The only lawyers still on board are Christopher Plourd of San Diego, a specialist in forensic evidence, and Dennis Riordan of San Francisco, an appellate lawyer who is likely to handle motions but not be present for the trial.

Riordan and Weinberg are both well known members of the San Francisco legal community.

Fidler scheduled another hearing for Dec. 7 after Weinberg said he hoped to reach an agreement with Spector by next month.

"We have no doubt we will be able to bring the matter to resolution by then," Weinberg told the judge.

Spector, 67, is accused of murdering actress Lana Clarkson, 40, on Feb. 3, 2003, at his Alhambra mansion.

John Taylor, a lawyer for Clarkson's family, was also in court Tuesday. He said later that a wrongful death lawsuit brought by the family has been put on hold until the criminal case is resolved.

Clarkson, most famous for the 1985 cult film "Barbarian Queen," met Spector at her job as a House of Blues hostess and went home with him after work. She died of a gunshot fired inside her mouth while seated in a foyer.

During the trial, prosecutors contended Spector has a history of threatening women with guns when they try to leave his presence. The defense sought to show that Clarkson was depressed by career struggles and other problems and the gunshot was self-inflicted, either an accident or a suicide.

No date has been set for the retrial.

[TobyTiger]

SPECTOR'S ATTORNEY WANTS A SEPT. 2008 TRIAL DATE (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20071207-1410-ca-philspector.html)

2:10 p.m. December 7, 2007

LOS ANGELES – Phil Spector has a new lawyer to represent him in his murder retrial, but the attorney told a judge Friday that he can't be ready to try the case until September.
The date proposed by San Francisco attorney Doron Weinberg for the new trial would put it exactly one year after a jury deadlock was declared in Spector's first trial on the charge that the legendary rock music producer murdered actress Lana Clarkson.

Weinberg said he would need at least five months to study 10,000 pages of transcripts from the first, six-month trial as well as 35,000 pages of discovery provided by the prosecution.
“I see that as 700 hours of work,” he said, noting that there are videotapes of the entire first trial which he would have to review.

The veteran lawyer said his co-counsel, Christopher Plourd, who was involved in the first Spector trial, currently is trying a death penalty case in Imperial County and has another one waiting after that in San Diego. Both cases, Weinberg said, are older than Spector's.

Deputy District Attorney Pat Dixon said the prosecution wants Spector's new trial to begin as soon as possible, but “If Mr. Plourd's cases go we can't argue with that.”

He suggested an interim hearing to check on Plourd's schedule, which Superior Court Judge Larry Paul Fidler set for March 7. As a technicality, Fidler also set May 22 as a tentative trial date but said that will be continued.

“Mr. Spector, is that agreeable to you?” he asked.

“O.K.,” Spector, who turns 68 this month, answered in a raspy whisper.

more at the link

[TobyTiger]

PROSECUTION SAYS DEATH OF WITNESS WON'T AFFECT NEW TRIAL (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20080107-1718-ca-spector-witnessdeath.html)

5:18 p.m. January 7, 2008

LOS ANGELES – The death of Dianne Ogden, one of four women who testified against Phil Spector in his murder trial, will not substantially change the case against the music producer in his second trial, a prosecution spokeswoman said Monday.

Ogden, 61, who testified that the music producer threatened her with a gun, died at home in Park City, Utah, on Dec. 29.

Argus Hamilton, the host of the Comedy Store in Los Angeles and a friend of Ogden, said he was notified of her death during the weekend. Hamilton did not know the cause of death. Ogden was a longtime music talent coordinator for the Grammy Awards and other music variety programs.
“It was completely unexpected,” he said of her death. “I had talked to her and she was looking forward to coordinating the upcoming Grammys.”

There was no immediate response to a telephone message left Monday for her husband, Steven Halder, in Park City.

Ogden drew national attention when she testified last May that after a party at Spector's home in 1989 the record producer suddenly turned “demonic,” forced her at gunpoint into his bedroom and tried to have sex with her.

District attorney's spokeswoman Sandi Gibbons said Ogden's “death was a tragedy but it should not affect the upcoming trial.”

She said prosecutors would most likely be able to use video of her testimony which was recorded by Court TV at the first trial.

Christopher Plourd, one of Spector's lawyers, agreed that the testimony of a deceased witness can be used but he said there may be a debate over whether it will be on video or will be read to jurors from transcripts.

Prosecutors called Ogden to support their case that Spector had a pattern of threatening women with guns that led to the killing of actress Lana Clarkson, who was shot at Spector's Alhambra mansion on Feb. 3, 2003.

His murder trial ended in a jury deadlock in September. A second trial is expected to begin next autumn. Ogden and the other women who testified about Spector's behavior were expected to be witnesses in the next trial.

Ogden, who was a friend of Spector, said he seemed to undergo a personality change as she moved to leave his home after the 1989 party.

“He was screaming at me, the F-word,” she said. “He wasn't my Phil, not the man I loved. It wasn't him. He was demonic. It scared the hell out of me.”

Another time, she said, she went to his house for a gathering with two friends and when she got up to leave, Spector again tried to keep her from going. “He said, 'I have an Uzi with me and I'm going to kill you,'” she said.

Ogden said he ran after her with the Uzi in his hand but she jumped into her car and gunned the engine. She never saw him again after that, she testified.

She said she never told her story to law enforcement and only spoke at the trial because she was under subpoena.

Gibbons said that Deputy District Attorney Alan Jackson phoned Ogden's family to express condolences.

Hamilton said a funeral for Ogden is scheduled Tuesday in Santa Monica, where she grew up.

[Joseph Bell]

Hi. He was brilliant in music but really!!! poor at human relationships. Is there ANY doubt that he murdered her?

Bye

[fairmaiden]

Hi Toby .... I'm sure you periodically check in. Have you heard anything further as to when this retrial will commence ??

[TobyTiger]

Greetings, everyone!
:seeya:

An update on Spector's case...

CALIFORNIA SUPREME COURT REFUSES TO TAKE SPECTOR CASE (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g93Q_UR0CRpFh-FS-4UbHXxI-dvAD91HGC1G0)

Jun 25, 2008

LOS ANGELES (AP) — The California Supreme Court refused Wednesday to take up Phil Spector's claim that the judge who presided over his deadlocked murder trial was biased against him and should be disqualified from handling his second trial.

The notice on the Supreme Court Web site said: "Petition for review denied." It noted that Chief Justice Ronald George was absent and did not participate in the decision.

The action clears the way for Spector's second trial to proceed. It is scheduled for Sept. 29 with a pretrial hearing on July 29.

Superior Court Judge Larry Paul Fidler, who presided at the first trial, rejected the defense claims months ago and signed a declaration that he was not biased or prejudiced against any party in the case.

more at the link

[Funny Face]

Any new news?

Thanks

[Funny Face]

Greetings,

Sept. 15th has come and gone. I didn't watch In Session exept for a few momoments of OJ's trial. I can't find the throw up icon, for that slimey piece of sh...

Wasn't Spector's re trial supposed to start today? I followed the first trial daily @ work (don't tell anyone). I was baffled by the hung jury decision. I retired last year and I have been looking foward to be able to watch w/o guilt!! Any news?

Thanx,
Funny Face :confused:

[Funny Face]

Greetings,

I guess I'm not the only clueless one! :rolleyes:

If there is any news it I'm sure it would be here first. There were so many incredible posters here. Especially Frankie Bones with her fast fingers and Sprocket's in depth real time coverage.

I am really curious how this case can languish in Neverland for so long? :shrug:

I'll check back.

Peace,
Funny Face

[Funny Face]

10/20/08...

Tick, Tick Tick :shrug:

Is the judicial system waiting for him to fossilize or die so they can save court costs?

Beats the he_ _ out me. :flamemad: