Too many loopholes in the case?

[Seashell]

My first reaction when i saw the news here was, who and how can a responsible parent leave their 3 under 4 year old kids alone in a holiday apartment knowing full well that the hotel also offer babysitting for travellers with small children?
As the days went by i also asked myself this:
what took the mother so long to report her child missing? apparently she took 40 mins. to tell everyone that little madeleine was "missing".
I find it also suspicious that when the parents have been interviewed they both look downwards and their body language speaks volumes, if they are without blame surelly they will look ate the camera as well as the interviewer straight in the eye? i havent seen the mother not once breakdown nor shed a tear on t.v as i have seen in similar cases of parents asking for help and showing real emotional distress.
The twins are always seem subdued whenever seen to be carried by both parents, children at that age are much more active they look too relaxed.
The parents are Doctors and also its been proven that they were giving madeleine a sedative which goes to explain why 3 small kids were left alone in the apartment ask yourself this: would you leave your kids like this without any kind of sedatives? of course not! 3 small kids going to sleep at the same time?
too many loopholes in my eyes.
I hope i am wrong in suspecting the mother and father.

[Pelicanette]

You are entitled to your opinion, but none of what you say amounts to proof that the parents in any way harmed their daughter.

We all acknowledge they should not have left the children alone, even for a short time, but that is a separate issue. Many people left their children alone that night, and those children were not taken.

Shocked and bereaved parents do not always do what we imagine we would do in their situation. Many are simply too stunned and heartbroken to react much at all. Others show great anger. Others are almost catatonic. People differ in how they react to grief and trauma.

The twins appear healthy to me and as happy as they can be in this circumstance. The heartache, worry and concern of the parents will rub off on the twins, no matter what. Children can sense when something is wrong and they are old enough to wonder where their sister is.

Most of the loopholes I see are in the police attempts to blame the parents. First, the police do not even know that Madeleine is dead. Nor do they know that she is injured in any way. They may be assuming that, but it cannot be proven. They have not found Madeleine dead or alive.

Second, the timeframe is impossible. There is just no way the parents could have hurt Madeleine, cleaned up, covered up, enlisted the help of others, disposed of the body and all the while gone back and forth to the dinner table.

I think a predator took Madeleine and may still have her somewhere.

[Seashell]

You are entitled to your opinion, but none of what you say amounts to proof that the parents in any way harmed their daughter.

We all acknowledge they should not have left the children alone, even for a short time, but that is a separate issue. Many people left their children alone that night, and those children were not taken.

Shocked and bereaved parents do not always do what we imagine we would do in their situation. Many are simply too stunned and heartbroken to react much at all. Others show great anger. Others are almost catatonic. People differ in how they react to grief and trauma.

The twins appear healthy to me and as happy as they can be in this circumstance. The heartache, worry and concern of the parents will rub off on the twins, no matter what. Children can sense when somethin
g is wrong and they are old enough to wonder where their sister is.

Most of the loopholes I see are in the police attempts to blame the parents. First, the police do not even know that Madeleine is dead. Nor do they know that she is injured in any way. They may be assuming that, but it cannot be proven. They have not found Madeleine dead or alive.

Second, the timeframe is impossible. There is just no way the parents could have hurt Madeleine, cleaned up, covered up, enlisted the help of others, disposed of the body and all the while gone back and forth to the dinner table.

I think a predator took Madeleine and may still have her somewhere.
I appreciatte your input on this and thank you for taking time to answer, i feel as strongly about this little girl as i do about the dissapearance of little Jeremi Vargas (posted on international news here) sadly in the case of little jeremi he isnt english nor is it a case thats known internationally and i posted his dissapearance on here in the hope that someone out there anywhere in the world could see his little face...
The spansih authorities are doing their best to find the culprit.
I also pray and hope that little madeleine is found alive, she is such a beautiful child and it is immensely frustrating all this waiting.
Gnite.

[Pelicanette]

Many children and adults go missing every day, but some make it to the national headlines, and we do not really know why. It is a fact that more missing girls make the news than boys. For some reason, the press and/or the public are more captivated by a missing girl or woman than by a missing boy or man. It helps if there are a lot of pictures of the child in question, because the press wants to publish photos as well as written reports. In the case of JonBenet Ramsey, the press kept that case going for years because of her beauty and the fact that there were dozens of pictures of her in beauty pageant costumes as well as professional photos done for her parents. Who knows why one child captures the attention of the press and public and another does not. Beauty, wealth, unusual circumstances, etc., all seem to play into it. But every missing child is a heartache for someone, whether or not their cases get a lot of attention.

[Seashell]

Many children and adults go missing every day, but some make it to the national headlines, and we do not really know why. It is a fact that more missing girls make the news than boys. For some reason, the press and/or the public are more captivated by a missing girl or woman than by a missing boy or man. It helps if there are a lot of pictures of the child in question, because the press wants to publish photos as well as written reports. In the case of JonBenet Ramsey, the press kept that case going for years because of her beauty and the fact that there were dozens of pictures of her in beauty pageant costumes as well as professional photos done for her parents. Who knows why one child captures the attention of the press and public and another does not. Beauty, wealth, unusual circumstances, etc., all seem to play into it. But every missing child is a heartache for someone, whether or not their cases get a lot of attention.

I agree with you on this as i was reading a british newspaper only the other day and one particular story had me upset once i read it, this woman was talking about how her son "dissapeared" while on a greek island about 10 years ago, i really have to find this womans case and show it on here, bbl.

[Jayelles]

I agree with you on this as i was reading a british newspaper only the other day and one particular story had me upset once i read it, this woman was talking about how her son "dissapeared" while on a greek island about 10 years ago, i really have to find this womans case and show it on here, bbl.

You are talking about Ben Needham. I think it was more like 15 years ago. It was quite a high profile case too. I read a recent news article which suggested that Ben's Mum was a bit aggrieved at the publicity the McCanns have received and that she felt this was due to their education and social position but I'm not sure how fair or accurate the article is likely to have been.

Ben's uncle came under suspicion. As I recall, his story was odd and there was something about him being unable to recall his actions at the time Ben went missing and something about a "dream" where he'd accidently killed Ben on his moped. There was a more recent documentary about Ben and his uncle where the unlce underwent forensic hypnosis to see if his memory could be recovered. I watched to documentary and posted quite a bit about it at the time because I thought it might be interesting if the Ramseys had been willing to undergo forensic hypnosis to unlock some of their memories.

If you are interested, I'm sure you'll find information about Ben Needham and the uncle/forensic hypnosis online still.

[Seashell]

You are talking about Ben Needham. I think it was more like 15 years ago. It was quite a high profile case too. I read a recent news article which suggested that Ben's Mum was a bit aggrieved at the publicity the McCanns have received and that she felt this was due to their education and social position but I'm not sure how fair or accurate the article is likely to have been.

Ben's uncle came under suspicion. As I recall, his story was odd and there was something about him being unable to recall his actions at the time Ben went missing and something about a "dream" where he'd accidently killed Ben on his moped. There was a more recent documentary about Ben and his uncle where the unlce underwent forensic hypnosis to see if his memory could be recovered. I watched to documentary and posted quite a bit about it at the time because I thought it might be interesting if the Ramseys had been willing to undergo forensic hypnosis to unlock some of their memories.

If you are interested, I'm sure you'll find information about Ben Needham and the uncle/forensic hypnosis online still.

Thanks!

Hi and yes i read exactly what was written in the "Daily Express" by the mother of Ben needham, actually when i read the part where she told the reporter that bens uncle was on his moped and pointed ben in the direction of the house and then drove off for a swim, i found it difficult to believe he had left the toddler on his own to find his way to the house.
I posted the childs dissapearance on the "international" section.

[Seashell]

Update:
MADDY: PARENTS' CAR HID CORPSE

Wednesday October 17,2007
By David Pilditch in Praia da Luz
BODILY fluids found in the car hired by Madeleine McCann’s parents could only have come from a corpse, it was claimed yesterday.


Forensic tests prove a body was placed in the Renault Scenic, a Portuguese police source alleged.


The fluids were on the underside of a carpet over the spare tyre well in the boot of the car hired by Kate and Gerry McCann 25 days after Madeleine disappeared on May 3, aged three.


The traces could not have been transferred from Madeleine’s clothes as the McCanns have claimed, the source said.


He added: “Police are being told the fluids come from a dead body.


“These are bodily fluids that could only come from a corpse. Police are waiting for the results to confirm the identity of the DNA.” Forensic tests are being carried out in Britain. The fluid was previously claimed to show an 88 per cent match to Madeleine’s DNA.



http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/22295/Maddy-Parents-car-hid-corpse

I am sitting tight for results...

[Angie1960]

I, like Seashell hate to belive that the parents had something to do with this. I haven't been following this too closely but I have my suspisions of the parents myself. What I do remember is that the McCanns did use the babysitting service (or Creche) - why didn't they use them that night? It would be a good cover if something had happend in the late afternoon when the mother was supposed to have been alone with her - she had ample time to hide the body temporarily. I can't believe everyone was involved in a cover up. although some may have been. There are a lot of loopholes in some of their stories.

The problem here is that I am a bit jaded. The first time I heard of a child gone missing then being found dead - I refused to believe it was the parents, I was very young and could not fathom such a thing. When it turned out to be the parents I was distraught. NO ONE wants to believe that seemingly upstanding professional people could do something like this. Unfortunatley, is is most often the case. Those of us who suspect that the parents may have been involved are just realists. It does not mean we believe without a shadow of a doubt that they are guilty - it's possible they are not - but the reality is statistics show that it is a great possibility, and that coupled with the creep factor I personally get from the content of their website, make me very weary of the parents. And here is something to ponder:

If Maddie was killed (and I don't believe she is alive) by a predator, what were her last minutes or hours like? If she was killed accidently by her mother... Well for Maddy's sake, I hope it was the latter.

Maybe we just don't want to think about what that little girl may have gone through if it was a predator. We are all speculators here, armchair warriors so to speak and our opinions are just that - opinions. We vent because crimes against children appall us - we are all together on that!

[Angie1960]

Seashell - thanks for that latest update! Very interesting!

[Seashell]

Seashell - thanks for that latest update! Very interesting!

:seeya: thanks Angie!
POLICE TRYING TO MAKE KATE CRACK

POLICE last night relentlessly piled up the pressure on the mother of missing Madeleine McCann.
The new officer in charge of the investigation put Kate McCann at the centre of two dramatic developments.
He was granted permission by a judge to seize her diary and announced that she will be subjected to a minute-by-minute reconstruction of the night Madeleine disappeared.
Mr Rebelo is said to have ordered the minute-by-minute reconstruction to test the accounts of part-time GP Kate and heart consultant Gerry, both 39, with statements made by the seven friends on holiday with them.
Investigators hope to use the reconstruction to shed light on alleged contradictions in evidence given by different members of the party, who were dining at a nearby tapas restaurant when Madeleine, three, disappeared from the family’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz 168 days ago.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/22393/Police-trying-to-make-Kate-crack

Maddy :rose:

[Pelicanette]

Saying that the police are "demanding a minute by minute account of that day or evening" from Kate and Gerry sounds so stern and official and important. But it is pure baloney.

Few people can give an accurate minute by minute account of what they were doing, where they were, what they said, who they saw, etc. for any given time period.

So what if Kate or Gerry or their friends made a mistake in describing the events of the day Maddy disappeared? People can make mistakes. They can forget. They can get confused about the time.

None of that is worth a hill of beans toward proving what happened to Maddy or where Maddy is right now. If Kate says she last saw Maddy at one time and Gerry says she last saw Maddy at another, it is not proof of anything except that they have different impressions or memories.

[Pelicanette]

If there were bodily fluids from a corpse in the hire car, somebody would be arrested and charged by now. LOL Just what would the cops be waiting for if they had that kind of forensic evidence. LOL It is all so silly. There was nothing at all in the hire car to indicate that a dead body had been in the car. It would be laughable if it were not about a missing child, who may very well be alive.

[Seashell]

If there were bodily fluids from a corpse in the hire car, somebody would be arrested and charged by now. LOL Just what would the cops be waiting for if they had that kind of forensic evidence. LOL It is all so silly. There was nothing at all in the hire car to indicate that a dead body had been in the car. It would be laughable if it were not about a missing child, who may very well be alive.

We shall wait and see how the investigation evolves with the new police team, i will not speculate until everything is confirmed.

[Seashell]

Good!
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/23060/POLICE-WANT-ANSWERS-TO-14-QUESTIONS

By Padraic Flanagan in Praia da Luz Have your say(122)
POLICE chiefs have drawn up a dossier of new questions for Kate and Gerry McCann about the night their daughter disappeared, it was revealed yesterday.

Detectives are travelling from the Algarve with an official request to interview Madeleine’s parents and the seven friends with whom they were on holiday in Praia da Luz.



They will table 14 key questions in an attempt to break the deadlock in the stalled investigation. The news came on the day Kate broke down and sobbed during a TV appearance in which she and Gerry spoke of their belief that Madeleine is still alive.


Investigators believe that members of the party – dubbed the Tapas Nine after the Spanish-themed restaurant they were in when Madeleine disappeared – may have been involved in the crime.


Gerry and Kate will be interviewed for the second time as official suspects but it will be the first interrogation in Britain. The outcome of the interviews, to be held within days, could lead to Portuguese police naming other members of the group as official suspects.


Under Portuguese law, detectives would have to declare them “arguidos” in order to ask them key questions about events leading up to the night of May 3 when Madeleine vanished.


Three detectives are now set to fly to Britain bearing a legal letter signed by a Portuguese judge, asking their counterparts in the UK to table the series of questions on their behalf.


It is likely the interviews will be conducted by officers from Leicestershire police who have already been helping the investigation.


But Portuguese officers are hoping to be present during the interrogations, which will be the first to take place since the days immediately after Madeleine disappeared from the McCanns’ holiday apartment at the Ocean Club resort.


The couple were dining at the restaurant on the complex with seven friends, including Rachael Oldfield, 36, Matthew Oldfield, 37, Jane Tanner, 36, Russell O’Brien, 36, Fiona Payne, 34, David Payne, 41, and Dianne Webster, Fiona Payne’s mother.


The interviews will be confined to questions covered in the formal request from the Portuguese judge. Algarve detectives may ask for follow-up questions to be put to the group but it is only at the discretion of British police carrying out the interviews. A


source within the Policia Judiciaria said: “The presence of our investigators in the interrogation room is important because they can analyse the gestures and facial expressions of those interviewed. “This is an important part of a criminal investigation.


It is what they call behavioural analysis.” The key questions reveal how Portuguese detectives are sticking to the theory that the McCanns, and possibly their friends, are involved in Madeleine’s disappearance. Her parents, and the family friends, have strenuously denied any involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance and insist she was abducted.


They also deny any wrongdoing. Last night a friend of the McCanns said: “Kate and Gerry’s friends are expecting to be interviewed again at some point and are happy to co-operate and do anything they can to help find Madeleine.”


One member of the group, Jane Tanner, 36, has already told police how she saw a man carrying a child wrapped in a blanket near the Ocean Club complex on the night Madeleine disappeared.


Miss Tanner told police the man was heading towards the home of Robert Murat – the British expat who was named as the first official suspect.


Murat, 33, was also placed in the frame by three other members of the McCanns’ party.


Miss Tanner’s hospital consultant partner Dr Russell O’Brien, 36, Dr Fiona Payne, 34, and doctor’s wife Rachael Oldfield, 36, all claimed they saw Murat near the McCanns’ apartment on the night Madeleine disappeared.


In July the three friends flew back to Portugal to confront Murat over his alibi during a tense five-hour grilling. Murat – now set to be cleared – insisted he did not leave home that night and went to bed early after dining with his mother Jenny, 71.


Dr Payne’s medical researcher husband David, 41, is said to have been one of the last people to see Madeleine. He joined Kate and her children at the McCanns’ apartment at 6.30pm on May 3 after Gerry asked him to check on them while he was having a tennis lesson.


Members of the party have told police they took it in turns to check on the children during the evening. Police are said to be concerned at inconsistencies in the statements of the McCanns and their friends of the events that took place that night.

[Jayelles]

I don't know how many people here are in the UK?

Clarence Mitchell was on tv this morning and he was asked about these investigators coming over to question the McCanns and their friends. He said that there had been a lot of rumours but added that this latest rumour seems to have come from a senior Portuguese detective so it would tend to have more credibility that other tabloid rumour. However, he said that they've not been told officially but that the McCanns will welcome it.

It therefore seems unlikely to be imminent.

It also transpires that their interviews in Portugal weren't taped and there is concern that some of meaning of their responses may be lost in translation.

I encountered a translation problem some years ago when the word "anxious" was translated into German and then retranslated back into English as "unbalanced"! Clearly the two words have very different meanings and could have caused considerable distress!

[Pelicanette]

Every time a new leader is appointed to an investigation, people are re-interviewed. I don't make too much of that. People seem to cling to the idea that the McCanns and their friends have inconsistencies in their accounts of that last day. Well, that is to be expected. If they had conspired, they would all be telling exactly the same story. The fact that they do not agree in every detail indicates to me that they did not get together and plan what to say or how to say it.

[Angie1960]

People seem to cling to the idea that the McCanns and their friends have inconsistencies in their accounts of that last day. Well, that is to be expected. If they had conspired, they would all be telling exactly the same story. The fact that they do not agree in every detail indicates to me that they did not get together and plan what to say or how to say it.

That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. So there's no way they could all remember the truth but they would be able to remember all the lies they are supposed to tell???

[Seashell]

Its known that witnesses are interviewed many times to determine if what they say is really the truth, if it helps to determine the truth behind all this mess then so be it!

[Jayelles]

That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. So there's no way they could all remember the truth but they would be able to remember all the lies they are supposed to tell???

It might sound silly, but police do tend to get suspicious when everyone tells exactly the same story.

[Angie1960]

It might sound silly, but police do tend to get suspicious when everyone tells exactly the same story.

Yes - that's true if it seems like its all been rehearsed. But I truly hope we are not employing total idiots. And law enforcement has been dealing with this fact for a long time - I certainly hope they can weed out minor perceptual variants from real inconsistancies.

[Jayelles]

Its known that witnesses are interviewed many times to determine if what they say is really the truth, if it helps to determine the truth behind all this mess then so be it!

That's correct - and the questions are often rephrased. I was recently personality profiled and it was pretty stressful answering some of the questions because they were similar to previous questions (but not the same). They do this to detect inconsistency and they also time you to see how long you think before answering. They like you to answer quickly. When you get your profile, there are two charts - one is the conscious and the other is the unconscious and the difference between them is the inconsistencies. It's very clever. My profile was spot on and my family and friends had a good laugh because it described me to a "t".

[Pelicanette]

Angie, the McCanns and their friends were at a table, visiting and socializing, eating and drinking, coming and going. I doubt that any of them was taking notes about who was at the table at what time, who went to check on the children first and second and third, who said what to whom, who drank how many drinks, who ate how many tacos, who said exactly what to whom exactly when, etc. Imagine that you were with a group of friends in the same situation. Later, one of the children went missing. Could you remember exactly what happened and when and who said what and all the rest if you were questioned? The truth is that people recall things differently. One person may remember that she went to check the children at exactly nine o'clock. Other may think that someone else went at nine. It is not a case of lying, but a case of faulty or different recollections. Even eye witnesses to an accident will often have different stories to tell of what happened. We all perceive things differently and have different levels of observation. I am not at all good with time, for instance. My husband is much better at remembering what time something happened. I am better at recalling what color dress someone was wearing or what someone was drinking. My hubby would not notice such things most of the time.

If the McCanns were guilty and had enlisted the help of their friends to cover up a crime or hide the body, they would all get their stories absolutely straight and would give the same answers. They did not do that, and they are answering things the way people often do.

I know that if someone asked me what I was doing last night, I would have to stop and think and try to piece together the list of activities as best I could. I do not write down what time the phone rings, how long I stay on the phone, what time I run to the store, how long it takes me to eat dinner, etc. Most people do not. Good policemen and detectives are usually suspicious of people who have alibis that are too perfect because people normally do not have total recall of what they do and when they do it. Add a half dozen friends to the mix and it becomes even more confusing.

It is all rather silly to me that some people make so much of the interviews that the police conduct. Police invariably go back to take to people again and again, often because they, the police, come up with new ideas or evidence or want to clear something up. They also tell witnesses to phone if they remember anything else about the evening or events in question, because sometimes people recall things days, even weeks, after they happen.

You are mistaken, Angie, if you think that police consider all discrepancies or inconsistencies as lies. They know that people can simply be mistaken about something. There is a big difference between a mistake and a lie. If you ask me what time I ate dinner last night, and I say, seven o'clock, it is probably because I think that I ate dinner at seven. If it turns out that I ate at 7:15, it is not that I was lying but that I was mistaken.

I do not see one scintilla of evidence against the McCanns or any of their friends. I do think that the Portuguese police failed in their job, which is to find Madeleine, dead or alive. I think Maddy may very well still be alive.

[Pelicanette]

I really cannot imagine what the friends would know that could blow this case wide open.

We have to assume that if the McCanns were in the flat with their children from around seven to eight, the friends are not aware of what went on then.

Once they all got to the table and started to have supper, the friends probably did not keep records of who did what and when, what was said, etc.

Unless they went and peeked at Maddy in her bed at a certain time, they cannot guarantee that she was there then and not there later.

I really do not see what they could have to offer that is relevant beyond the sighting by Jane of the man carrying a child, which may or may not be relevant.

The police may ask them how much wine was drunk at the table, but who knows how much each individual drank and what difference does it make in the long run. The police may ask if they recall seeing Gerry or Kate go to check the children, but the friends may not have total recall of when and if that occurred.

I just don't see anything the friends could offer that would be proof of anything. Much of what they say would be opinion. Did Kate appear happy, nervous, frightened, drunk, etc.? But that is opinion, after all, and not proof of anything.

We know Kate and Gerry were at the table for most of the time in question not just from their friends but from the waiters, etc. who observed the table of people. Of course, their recollections may not be the gospel truth, either, because people who are busy waiting on tables may not be the best witnesses.

[Seashell]

At the end of the 30-minute interview, as she broke down again, her cardiologist husband Gerry, 39, was heard to warn her: “Don’t say anything until they’ve taken off your microphone.”

Viewers who watched Kate and Gerry McCann’s tearful TV interview delivered a damning verdict yesterday.


A phone vote moments after the broadcast revealed nearly 70 per cent thought the couple were not telling the truth about Madeleine’s disappearance.




The verdict came as police chiefs in Portugal reacted angrily to the McCanns’ decision to set up a phone hotline in neighbouring Spain manned by private detectives.




They fear that information may not be passed on to them, hindering their investigation which is focusing on the McCanns.




Public opinion in Spain now appears to be mirroring the shift that occurred in Portugal, where many people have turned against the couple.




During the interview shown in Spain yesterday, the crew had to stop filming four times as 39-year-old GP Kate broke down in tears while describing life without her daughter

At the end of the 30-minute interview, as she broke down again, her cardiologist husband Gerry, 39, was heard to warn her: “Don’t say anything until they’ve taken off your microphone.”


The surprising remark was broadcast to millions of viewers of late-night Spanish chat show 360 Degrees on the country’s Antena 3 channel. It clearly failed to impress the audience.

The couple were savaged in the phone vote following the show, with only 30 per cent signalling they thought the couple were being honest about what happened to their daughter.

Thousands more who thought the couple were not telling the truth registered their response on internet websites.

One wrote: “I had an empty feeling inside when I was watching. It just did not look right. I desperately wanted to believe them but I just couldn’t.”

Another wrote: “I could not believe what he said at the end.

“He should have been putting his arm around her to comfort her – instead he was telling her to keep her mouth shut. What kind of a man is he?”

Kate broke down in tears towards the end of the interview, recorded on Tuesday, as she talked about four-year-old Madeleine, the eldest of her three children.

“I feel sad and I feel lonely and our life is not as happy without Madeleine,” she said, adding: “I feel anxious she is not with us.”

Asked about the last time she saw Madeleine, she said: “She was very happy and loving and I know Madeleine was very happy with her life. She is special.”

The McCanns reportedly chose Antena 3 for the interview ahead of better-known broadcasters such as Oprah Winfrey and Barbara Walters in the US because they believe their daughter is most likely to be in Spain, Portugal or north Africa.

Asked if she was still as confident of finding Madeleine alive as she had been on May 3, the day the little girl went missing, Kate told the interviewer: “Maybe even more so. I think she is possibly being held by someone in their house but I don’t know. As Madeleine’s mummy I feel in my heart that she is there.

“I don’t know how anyone could harm anyone as beautiful as Madeleine. I don’t mean her appearance. I mean as a beautiful person.”

Explaining why they were speaking out now, Gerry said: “We want people to come forward with any information whatsoever that can help to find her and we want them to be aware of the hotline number (0034 902 300213).”

Kate said: “We just want to appeal to the people of Spain, Portugal and north Africa to help us and to tell them we have a new central phone number for them to call.

“Somebody knows something. It is not about us. It is about Madeleine. She needs our help. She needs her family.”

The couple said they were confident that they would be cleared of any involvement in their daughter’s disappearance.

Kate said: “It really is secondary. I will take anything that is thrown at me.” The only thing that mattered, she said, was “getting our daughter back”.

he couple also strongly denied reports that they sedated their children. Earlier this month they threatened legal action over “hurtful” allegations that they gave the youngsters sleeping pills.

Asked about the claims in the Spanish TV interview, Gerry replied: “It is ludicrous.

“These sort of questions are nonsense and we shouldn’t be giving them the time of day.”


I saw the interview, i was not impressed.

[Jayelles]

I saw the interview, i was not impressed

Some people will never be impressed but listening to a phone-in on radio and reading some of the comments on the news websites, there has been a huge wave of support for them following this interview.

At the end of the day, they are doing this to keep Madeleine in the forefront of peoples' minds - something which they have been advised to do by the American organisation for missing chlildren. They've said themselves, nothing can hurt them as much as madeleine being taken and I think that would hold true for most of us so I guess the opinions of people who watch and analyse and criticise is moot.

[Seashell]

Some people will never be impressed but listening to a phone-in on radio and reading some of the comments on the news websites, there has been a huge wave of support for them following this interview.

At the end of the day, they are doing this to keep Madeleine in the forefront of peoples' minds - something which they have been advised to do by the American organisation for missing chlildren. They've said themselves, nothing can hurt them as much as madeleine being taken and I think that would hold true for most of us so I guess the opinions of people who watch and analyse and criticise is moot.

At the end of the day 70% of the people voted that the way this couple handled the interview i am and was not impressed, wether you or their followers like it thats how i and 70% of the public felt.

[Jayelles]

At the end of the day 70% of the people voted that the way this couple handled the interview i am and was not impressed, wether you or their followers like it thats how i and 70% of the public felt.

70% of the people that voted does not IMO equate to public feeling IMO. We know from political polls that the people who actively seek out these polls to vote in are not representative of the population as a whole. Also, people are more likely to seek them out if they feel negatively than otherwise. That is why people are more inclined to write letters of complaint than letters of praise.

(What kind of people vote on whether or not they are impressed with the way parents are handling their grief over a lost child anyway? That seems unbelievably sick. It's tantamount to evaluating someone's suffering.)

What next?

[Seashell]

70% of the people that voted does not IMO equate to public feeling IMO. We know from political polls that the people who actively seek out these polls to vote in are not representative of the population as a whole. Also, people are more likely to seek them out if they feel negatively than otherwise. That is why people are more inclined to write letters of complaint than letters of praise.

(What kind of people vote on whether or not they are impressed with the way parents are handling their grief over a lost child anyway? That seems unbelievably sick. It's tantamount to evaluating someone's suffering.)

What next?

Thats your opinion, mine is different as to the way they reacted to the questions as well as the fact he warned his wife to make sure the mic was off before she spoke to him.

you say "What kind of people vote on whether or not they are impressed with the way parents are handling their grief over a lost child anyway? That seems unbelievably sick. It's tantamount to evaluating someone's suffering.

70% SPEAKS volumes? :shrug:

[Results]

Thats your opinion, mine is different as to the way they reacted to the questions as well as the fact he warned his wife to make sure the mic was off before she spoke to him.

you say "What kind of people vote on whether or not they are impressed with the way parents are handling their grief over a lost child anyway? That seems unbelievably sick. It's tantamount to evaluating someone's suffering.

70% SPEAKS volumes? :shrug:

ITA with you but I think alot of people are missing a very strong point here. These parents did this interview because they thought their little girl was there and if 70% do not believe them there how will they get help from those 70%. These parents should care if they truly believe their daughter is there....if they don't then there is something wrong with these parents. JMHO

[Jayelles]

ITA with you but I think alot of people are missing a very strong point here. These parents did this interview because they thought their little girl was there and if 70% do not believe them there how will they get help from those 70%. These parents should care if they truly believe their daughter is there....if they don't then there is something wrong with these parents. JMHO

So basically, you are saying that the McCanns need to somehow "win over" the 70% of people otherwise they won't get any help from them in finding Maddie.

How do you suggest they go about that?

[Results]

So basically, you are saying that the McCanns need to somehow "win over" the 70% of people otherwise they won't get any help from them in finding Maddie.

How do you suggest they go about that?

WOW your asking me? You know people that know them ask them....I SAID they should care if they think their daugher is over there nothing more nothing less. I'm blunt and to the point. Sorry that is just me. I don't know what to tell them because I never left my children alone to go drinking. They will have to pay a price for that no matter what anyone says. You reap what you sow. JMHO

[Angie1960]

WOW your asking me? You know people that know them ask them....I SAID they should care if they think their daugher is over there nothing more nothing less. I'm blunt and to the point. Sorry that is just me. I don't know what to tell them because I never left my children alone to go drinking. They will have to pay a price for that no matter what anyone says. You reap what you sow. JMHO

And in a foreign country to boot!

[Jayelles]

WOW your asking me? You know people that know them ask them....I SAID they should care if they think their daugher is over there nothing more nothing less. I'm blunt and to the point. Sorry that is just me. I don't know what to tell them because I never left my children alone to go drinking. They will have to pay a price for that no matter what anyone says. You reap what you sow. JMHO

Oh sorry. You expressed a particular opinion so I thought you had particular ideas. I'm also sorry that you are blunt and to the point. Sometimes that's a great thing, and sometimes a little tact and diplomacy works wonders. However, I do agree with you that we reap what we sow.

[Results]

And in a foreign country to boot!

Exactly! I'm glad some people are seeing the damages these parents have done. The real kicker for me is Kate says it felt like someone was watching them but she leaves her kids alone? That doesn't make sense and furthermore I could care less what she looks like since when do you have to have big boobs to be a Mother. Hello! Something is very wrong here and it seems like alot of people want to explain away any thing they do. I call em as I see them. JMHO

[Jayelles]

Exactly! I'm glad some people are seeing the damages these parents have done. The real kicker for me is Kate says it felt like someone was watching them but she leaves her kids alone? That doesn't make sense and furthermore I could care less what she looks like since when do you have to have big boobs to be a Mother. Hello! Something is very wrong here and it seems like alot of people want to explain away any thing they do. I call em as I see them. JMHO

For the record - Kate's mother was interviewed and she said that Kate had said that people might not attack her so much if she were two stone heavier and looked more maternal.

This was rehashed by a tabloid into "if I were less attractive and had bigger boobs". People on the forums then ran with the tabloid twist rather than what was actually said (which let's face it - is considerably less sensational).

This is a classic example of the damage the tabloids are doing to the case.

[Results]

Oh sorry. You expressed a particular opinion so I thought you had particular ideas. I'm also sorry that you are blunt and to the point. Sometimes that's a great thing, and sometimes a little tact and diplomacy works wonders. However, I do agree with you that we reap what we sow.

Don't feel sorry for me because I'm blunt and to the point because I'm not sorry about it. I'm just honest. If I feel like I need to say something I say it.

[Jayelles]

Don't feel sorry for me because I'm blunt and to the point because I'm not sorry about it. I'm just honest. If I feel like I need to say something I say it.

Me too. However, I would stop short of saying something very hurtful unless it was in the other person's best interests. Sometimes it's better to put feelings before self satisfaction.

[Results]

For the record - Kate's mother was interviewed and she said that Kate had said that people might not attack her so much if she were two stone heavier and looked more maternal.

This was rehashed by a tabloid into "if I were less attractive and had bigger boobs". People on the forums then ran with the tabloid twist rather than what was actually said (which let's face it - is considerably less sensational).

This is a classic example of the damage the tabloids are doing to the case.

I do agree with you there. Damage started at the beginning and it just got worse. Who cares what the heck people think of you when you have a child missing? I don't get it? Why does she care? Her concentration should be on her missing child not what the world thinks. JMHO

[Results]

Me too. However, I would stop short of saying something very hurtful unless it was in the other person's best interests. Sometimes it's better to put feelings before self satisfaction.

You are confused dear. I have no self satisfaction in this case what so ever. There is a child missing and I do not know where she is and I do care that she is found. Hurtful to who? I am sick and tired of hearing about the parents Maddy got lost in this shuffle of who done it..where is she? I'm fighting for Maddy and I don't care about anyone else but her. The parents don't deserve us but Maddy does so I will fight for Maddy. The parents have been too long in the spotlight I want to know where is Maddy and why aren't people worried about her and looking for her. They collected alot of money to be able to do something but they haven't. My concern and only concern is where is Maddy? JMHO

[Seashell]

WOW your asking me? You know people that know them ask them....I SAID they should care if they think their daugher is over there nothing more nothing less. I'm blunt and to the point. Sorry that is just me. I don't know what to tell them because I never left my children alone to go drinking. They will have to pay a price for that no matter what anyone says. You reap what you sow. JMHO

You got it right.

If these parents had taken care of their siblings and paid for a sitter, we wouldnt be talking about it at all.



Maddy :rose:

[Seashell]

MCCANNS ‘ARE HIDING A BIG SECRET’
Still missing: Madeleine

Sunday October 28,2007
By John Stalker


I HAVE watched the investigation into the Madeleine McCann case drag out for six months.

One thing above all worries me: Why have the McCanns and the seven other members of their group – the Tapas Nine – remained so silent? My gut instinct is that some big secret is probably being covered up.


Unlike other high-profile cases I have worked on, not one of them has been prepared to break ranks or really come out and support each other. After all this time and pressure, I cannot believe that nobody wants to speak.


Their answer has always been no comment but there is surely some division between them. So what are they hiding? I have a real suspicion that we are not being told the whole truth.


MORE:
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/23411/McCanns-are-hiding-a-big-secret-

[Seashell]

MCCANNS USE FUND TO PAY MORTGAGE

KATE and Gerry McCann have paid their mortgage with some of the £1million donated to help find Madeleine, it emerged yesterday.


Contributors to the fund immediately complained that they did not expect their money to be used to cover the cost of the McCanns’ four-bedroom home worth £600,000.


The couple went on unpaid leave shortly after their daughter’s disappearance on May 3 and it is known that they have struggled to meet the enormous and unexpected financial strain placed on them.


Gerry is due to return to his £75,000-a-year position as a hospital consultant this week which will ease some of the family’s financial pressures. But Kate is said to be unlikely to return to her part-time GP’s position, for which she was paid around £45,000 a year.


The couple are understood to have paid £460,000 for their home in early 2006, taking out a mortgage of around £350,000. It is believed their repayments are more than £2,000 a month.


Last night it emerged that the fund was used to pay the mortgage on the house in Rothley, Leics, twice in July and August.


It was when the couple were still in Portugal but before they were made official suspects on September 7.


The controversial use of the Find Madeleine Fund was revealed as Gerry, 39, enjoyed a round of golf on the Rothley Park course near his home just days before his return to work as a consultant cardiologist at Leicester’s Glenfield Hospital.


Yesterday it was stressed he would not be treating patients and that his role would be “strictly academic”.


But, even as Gerry relaxed, one contributor to the fund was writing on the internet after learning about the mortgage payments: “I was shocked.


“I cannot believe that they haven’t at least moved to a house that they CAN afford to live in instead of choosing to remain in that one.


“I am so annoyed that I contributed to their mortgage. I’m struggling to get on the property ladder myself and it enrages me.


“My donation went towards their mortgage instead of helping to find Madeleine. I am disgusted and would like my money back.”


Another said: “That money was to be used to find Maddy, not to pay the mortgage of two highly-paid doctors. I hope they intend to pay it back into the fund.”


While another wrote: “This pair should go back to living their lives if only for the sake of their other children. This is a totally inappropriate use of the money.


“The money should be given to the Red Cross or some other organisation to be used in locating missing people.”


Last night Esther McVeigh, a director of the Find Madeleine Fund, confirmed it had been used to make the mortgage payments.


She said: “They have never received any personal financial support since then, nor have they asked for it.


“When the fund was set up, one of its express intentions was to support the family financially if that became necessary.”

The father was also seen to be playing golf yesterday, does anyone have any idea how expensive it costs to be a member in the UK?
I find it appalling that these parents use the money sent in by compassionate public members, its downright wrong and if they are so badly off then why dont they sell their home and move into something less expensive as well as cut down on EXPENSES such as GOLF CLUB MEMBERSHIP :no:

http://www.express.co.uk/news

[Eagle1]

MCCANNS USE FUND TO PAY MORTGAGE

KATE and Gerry McCann have paid their mortgage with some of the £1million donated to help find Madeleine, it emerged yesterday.


Contributors to the fund immediately complained that they did not expect their money to be used to cover the cost of the McCanns’ four-bedroom home worth £600,000.


The couple went on unpaid leave shortly after their daughter’s disappearance on May 3 and it is known that they have struggled to meet the enormous and unexpected financial strain placed on them.


Gerry is due to return to his £75,000-a-year position as a hospital consultant this week which will ease some of the family’s financial pressures. But Kate is said to be unlikely to return to her part-time GP’s position, for which she was paid around £45,000 a year.


The couple are understood to have paid £460,000 for their home in early 2006, taking out a mortgage of around £350,000. It is believed their repayments are more than £2,000 a month.


Last night it emerged that the fund was used to pay the mortgage on the house in Rothley, Leics, twice in July and August.


It was when the couple were still in Portugal but before they were made official suspects on September 7.


The controversial use of the Find Madeleine Fund was revealed as Gerry, 39, enjoyed a round of golf on the Rothley Park course near his home just days before his return to work as a consultant cardiologist at Leicester’s Glenfield Hospital.


Yesterday it was stressed he would not be treating patients and that his role would be “strictly academic”.


But, even as Gerry relaxed, one contributor to the fund was writing on the internet after learning about the mortgage payments: “I was shocked.


“I cannot believe that they haven’t at least moved to a house that they CAN afford to live in instead of choosing to remain in that one.


“I am so annoyed that I contributed to their mortgage. I’m struggling to get on the property ladder myself and it enrages me.


“My donation went towards their mortgage instead of helping to find Madeleine. I am disgusted and would like my money back.”


Another said: “That money was to be used to find Maddy, not to pay the mortgage of two highly-paid doctors. I hope they intend to pay it back into the fund.”


While another wrote: “This pair should go back to living their lives if only for the sake of their other children. This is a totally inappropriate use of the money.


“The money should be given to the Red Cross or some other organisation to be used in locating missing people.”


Last night Esther McVeigh, a director of the Find Madeleine Fund, confirmed it had been used to make the mortgage payments.


She said: “They have never received any personal financial support since then, nor have they asked for it.


“When the fund was set up, one of its express intentions was to support the family financially if that became necessary.”

The father was also seen to be playing golf yesterday, does anyone have any idea how expensive it costs to be a member in the UK?
I find it appalling that these parents use the money sent in by compassionate public members, its downright wrong and if they are so badly off then why dont they sell their home and move into something less expensive as well as cut down on EXPENSES such as GOLF CLUB MEMBERSHIP :no:

http://www.express.co.uk/news

I know. He'd say he has to play golf and "keep in shape" or something like that, and that if they have to sell their house it will take time. I'm kind of surprised they let him come back to work.

You and I are not haters, noticing these FRUSTRATING contradictions all the time, just anxious about Maddie and the parents and grandmother keep grandstanding, trying to manipulate all of us. It only makes a thinking person think Why would they need to do that, it's so unusual in missing children cases. So inappropriate. At Gerry's blog, which I could only stand to read a very little of, he tells how well they're getting along without Maddie, although of course he doesn't put it quite that way and doesn't realize that's in essence what he's revealing. He thinks he's just showing an ability to adjust, and that it's commendable, I guess. We just don't care about all that, just Maddie.

[Eagle1]

I wanted to remove some of the quote since it's already showing in your post, and just show your reply, but can't get it to edit. Answered your pm that I couldn't see the message part but got another email notification that included it.

[Angie1960]

I know. He'd say he has to play golf and "keep in shape" or something like that, and that if they have to sell their house it will take time. I'm kind of surprised they let him come back to work.

You and I are not haters, noticing these FRUSTRATING contradictions all the time, just anxious about Maddie and the parents and grandmother keep grandstanding, trying to manipulate all of us. It only makes a thinking person think Why would they need to do that, it's so unusual in missing children cases. So inappropriate. At Gerry's blog, which I could only stand to read a very little of, he tells how well they're getting along without Maddie, although of course he doesn't put it quite that way and doesn't realize that's in essence what he's revealing. He thinks he's just showing an ability to adjust, and that it's commendable, I guess. We just don't care about all that, just Maddie.

That's exactly the feeling I get from their website - It's all just a mess.

[Seashell]

I know. He'd say he has to play golf and "keep in shape" or something like that, and that if they have to sell their house it will take time. I'm kind of surprised they let him come back to work.

You and I are not haters, noticing these FRUSTRATING contradictions all the time, just anxious about Maddie and the parents and grandmother keep grandstanding, trying to manipulate all of us. It only makes a thinking person think Why would they need to do that, it's so unusual in missing children cases.
true.


So inappropriate. At Gerry's blog, which I could only stand to read a very little of, he tells how well they're getting along without Maddie, although of course he doesn't put it quite that way and doesn't realize that's in essence what he's revealing. He thinks he's just showing an ability to adjust, and that it's commendable, I guess. We just don't care about all that, just Maddie.
Do you know i havent even even read the blog? i wont and to be honest i am more interested in focusing my worry and compassion on the little girl.

I have never encounterwd such a money making case as this:
take a look at the links and please give me your opinion, i cant imagine how much money has been made out of this tragic case! i am a business woman and i know that companies behind this wrist band business are also in it for money sake, no one gives anything for nothing.

http://store.findmadeleine.com/

[Angie1960]

true.



Do you know i havent even even read the blog? i wont and to be honest i am more interested in focusing my worry and compassion on the little girl.

I have never encounterwd such a money making case as this:
take a look at the links and please give me your opinion, i cant imagine how much money has been made out of this tragic case! i am a business woman and i know that companies behind this wrist band business are also in it for money sake, no one gives anything for nothing.

http://store.findmadeleine.com/


I know - playing on people's sympathies to make a buck - that's pretty blunt and would be nice if it wasn't/isn't the case but it's - so COMMERCIAL!!!

[andU]

Well, all of you blabbing about garbage and knocking the parents isn't finding Maddie, either. So, don't be so quick to say that all you care about is finding her when you are about aiding in the prosecution of these innocent parents.

[Angie1960]

Well, all of you blabbing about garbage and knocking the parents isn't finding Maddie, either. So, don't be so quick to say that all you care about is finding her when you are about aiding in the prosecution of these innocent parents.

I really wish I could say all I care about is finding her. Sadly I think if that were possible (to find her alive) she would have been found by now. :(

As Eagle said - we are not haters and I think I can say for all, that we would be happy if it turns out that they had nothing to do with it.

We are voicing our opinions - something people can do openly and honestly on message boards - since in everyday life, we all or at least should, hold back some.

[Seashell]

Well, all of you blabbing about garbage and knocking the parents isn't finding Maddie either,
this is a message board, garbage in what way>? i am free to also have my opinion and show my disgust at the money making strategies going on behind the scenes.

So, don't be so quick to say that all you care about is finding her when you are about aiding in the prosecution of these innocent parents.

ah but you see andU we are indeed innocent till proven guilty but in this case there are too many unanswered questions by the parents, during their interrogation in Portugal do you know that Kate sat quiet and didnt answer any of the questions put forward to her? now tell me, what does it say?
everyone and i mean everyone starting with the parents in any child abductions, the parents are always scrutinized and cross questioned to discard any guilt.

[Seashell]

I really wish I could say all I care about is finding her. Sadly I think if that were possible (to find her alive) she would have been found by now. :(

As Eagle said - we are not haters and I think I can say for all, that we would be happy if it turns out that they had nothing to do with it.

We are voicing our opinions - something people can do openly and honestly on message boards - since in everyday life, we all or at least should, hold back some.
You said it as it is :)
Maddy :rose:

[margaritaville]

Well, all of you blabbing about garbage and knocking the parents isn't finding Maddie, either. So, don't be so quick to say that all you care about is finding her when you are about aiding in the prosecution of these innocent parents.


But the problem is they COULD be guilty..
You are never going to get people to stop talking about it because it is in the papers everyday....

I believe the parents know where she is and what happened to her.

Forensics don't lie.

IMHO

[margaritaville]

I really wish I could say all I care about is finding her. Sadly I think if that were possible (to find her alive) she would have been found by now. :(





Ah, but it does happen....



Kate and Gerry McCanns' hopes their daughter was alive were raised last night after detectives they hired to hunt for her found another blonde girl in the region who had been snatched by a Moroccan family.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/10/30/madeleine-spotted-10-times-in-morocco-89520-20030665/

[andU]

But the problem is they COULD be guilty..
You are never going to get people to stop talking about it because it is in the papers everyday....

I believe the parents know where she is and what happened to her.

Forensics don't lie.

IMHO

I know forensics don't lie; but everything, including the car has been contaminated to the point that the evidence is unreliable. Yes, I concur that they could be guilty - so couldthe Ramsey's be guilty ... but before I believe it, they are innocent until proven guilty, so bring on the 'beyone a shadow of doubt' proof.

[margaritaville]

I know forensics don't lie; but everything, including the car has been contaminated to the point that the evidence is unreliable. Yes, I concur that they could be guilty - so couldthe Ramsey's be guilty ... but before I believe it, they are innocent until proven guilty, so bring on the 'beyone a shadow of doubt' proof.


Beyond a shadow? Or beyond reasonable?

Reasonable would be forensics found in the car matched Maddie.

A car rented after she went missing.

contamination? How could her DNA have gotten there with out her being in there?

Reasonable...she was in there..
IMHO

[andU]

Beyond a shadow? Or beyond reasonable?

Reasonable would be forensics found in the car matched Maddie.

A car rented after she went missing.

contamination? How could her DNA have gotten there with out her being in there?

Reasonable...she was in there..
IMHO

Ok, 'shadow'... it is the LE responsibility to provide the burden of proof. They have none.

[bullmoose]

Beyond a shadow? Or beyond reasonable?

Reasonable would be forensics found in the car matched Maddie.

A car rented after she went missing.

contamination? How could her DNA have gotten there with out her being in there?

Reasonable...she was in there..
IMHO
Forensics don't lie, but incompetent cops do lie all the time, and certainly are not above 'planting' evidence; I've personal experience to say that. JMHO

[Seashell]

Beyond a shadow? Or beyond reasonable?

Reasonable would be forensics found in the car matched Maddie.

A car rented after she went missing.

contamination? How could her DNA have gotten there with out her being in there?

Reasonable...she was in there..
IMHO

well put, i am with you on this one.

[Seashell]

Forensics don't lie, but incompetent cops do lie all the time, and certainly are not above 'planting' evidence; I've personal experience to say that. JMHO

ok so please explain how these incompetent cops found the childs hairs and body fluids in the rented car if they "planted" evidence?

[bullmoose]

ok so please explain how these incompetent cops found the childs hairs and body fluids in the rented car if they "planted" evidence?
By law, the Portugese cops are forbidden to discuss the case; however, little, seemingly damning leaks keep dribbling out from them, like snot from a runny nose. I, for, one do not believe they actually found anything like what is claimed, in that rented car. The car was not rented for 25 days after her disappearance, if her corpse had been transported in that car and body fluids from putrification had leaked into it, the stench would have been enough to gag a maggot. Her hair, if actually found, could have come from the McCann's moving their belongings to another place to stay. Cops lie to try to break cases; IMHO, this is just one such instance where cops have tryed to deflect criticism for their incompetence by leaking inflammatory horseplop to put the pressure on the parents. JMHO

[Seashell]

I, for, one do not believe they actually found anything like what is claimed, in that rented car.
The car was not rented for 25 days after her disappearance, if her corpse had been transported in that car and body fluids from putrification had leaked into it, the stench would have been enough to gag a maggot. Her hair, if actually found, could have come from the McCann's moving their belongings to another place to stay. Cops lie to try to break cases; IMHO, this is just one such instance where cops have tryed to deflect criticism for their incompetence by leaking inflammatory horseplop to put the pressure on the parents. JMHO

You mentioned "planting" evidence, now you are giving your personal opinion and i am still waiting to know how the police "planted" body fluids and hairs in that rent car, if as you believe the police leaked inflammatory horseplop again you are speculating and that is MHO :shrug:

[bullmoose]

You mentioned "planting" evidence, now you are giving your personal opinion and i am still waiting to know how the police "planted" body fluids and hairs in that rent car, if as you believe the police leaked inflammatory horseplop again you are speculating and that is MHO :shrug:

How do you suppose that such reports reached the press; surely you are not insinuating that the press made up the story out of whole cloth? Who else could have 'leaked' such prejudicial claims if not the cops? Who supposedly found the 'evidence'? I indeed do speculate strongly that incompetence breeds the planting and indeed, even the invention and fabrication of false evidence by cops, no matter what their nationality might be; to deflect justified criticism of rank incompetence. JMHO:biggrin:

[Seashell]

How do you suppose that such reports reached the press; surely you are not insinuating that the press made up the story out of whole cloth? Who else could have 'leaked' such prejudicial claims if not the cops? Who supposedly found the 'evidence'?
I indeed do speculate strongly that incompetence breeds the planting and indeed, even the invention and fabrication of false evidence by cops, no matter what their nationality might be; to deflect justified criticism of rank incompetence. JMHO:biggrin:
There is no secret here that mistakes were made at the beginning of this terrible event, indeed i am the first person to agree that they made a mess of all evidence but i will not accuse the police of planting evidence as you have said on here, i fully believe in the evidence found in that car MHO :shrug:
I trust the new police chief in charge of the team that is investigating and am hoping that he will be able to go through every single person that was there on that infamous night.

[bullmoose]

There is no secret here that mistakes were made at the beginning of this terrible event, indeed i am the first person to agree that they made a mess of all evidence but i will not accuse the police of planting evidence as you have said on here, i fully believe in the evidence found in that car MHO :shrug:
I trust the new police chief in charge of the team that is investigating and am hoping that he will be able to go through every single person that was there on that infamous night.

'Leaked evidence' as the horseplop in the car is purported to be is not evidence at all, just malicious hearsay fed to the tabloids; if and when it is examined in court and its veracity is verified, then maybe it will become real evidence. Until such time as that happens, if ever, it is just malicious hearsay put out by the incompetent cops to deflect the justified criticism of their aborted investigation. I too hope that the new man in charge will get to the bottom of what happened, but after 6 months, I am not too hopeful. JMHO

[rocksolid56]

This case tragic as it is has gone on for far to long.The case was handled wrong from the start by the portugese authorities.All clues like DNA eg.have been contaminated by a police force that clearly is or was not up for this investigation.The goodness in me does not think that the McCain's were party to this crime,if anything all they are guilty of is gross negligence.Who in their right minds would leave young kids by themselves,it beggars belief.Something makes me think and hope and pray that Maddy is still alive and will be found.

[margaritaville]

'Leaked evidence' as the horseplop in the car is purported to be is not evidence at all, just malicious hearsay fed to the tabloids; if and when it is examined in court and its veracity is verified, then maybe it will become real evidence. Until such time as that happens, if ever, it is just malicious hearsay put out by the incompetent cops to deflect the justified criticism of their aborted investigation. I too hope that the new man in charge will get to the bottom of what happened, but after 6 months, I am not too hopeful. JMHO

You have your opinion I have mine.

I love it when the "bad guys" are always the LE..
They planted it, leaked it to the press to cover their butts...

Well I guess they are good for something then right?

You even go as far as saying you have no faith in the "new man"...

Must be because he wears a badge you are not fond of..

Had many run in's with LE in your life? Apparently so...
A little bitter? Apparently so

Fortunately all the LE I have had to deal with in my life were not as corrupt as all that have been in yours. Believe it or not, there are very good people out there doing an extremely hard job. Which isn't planting bodily fluids to try and frame a mother and father who has a missing child!!

I think that is completely absurd and when all is done, I think you will be eating crow..... Hope you are hungry!!!

IMHO

[andU]

By law, the Portugese cops are forbidden to discuss the case; however, little, seemingly damning leaks keep dribbling out from them, like snot from a runny nose. I, for, one do not believe they actually found anything like what is claimed, in that rented car. The car was not rented for 25 days after her disappearance, if her corpse had been transported in that car and body fluids from putrification had leaked into it, the stench would have been enough to gag a maggot. Her hair, if actually found, could have come from the McCann's moving their belongings to another place to stay. Cops lie to try to break cases; IMHO, this is just one such instance where cops have tryed to deflect criticism for their incompetence by leaking inflammatory horseplop to put the pressure on the parents. JMHO

Very well stated, Bullmoose. I totally agree with you!

[andU]

How do you suppose that such reports reached the press; surely you are not insinuating that the press made up the story out of whole cloth? Who else could have 'leaked' such prejudicial claims if not the cops? Who supposedly found the 'evidence'? I indeed do speculate strongly that incompetence breeds the planting and indeed, even the invention and fabrication of false evidence by cops, no matter what their nationality might be; to deflect justified criticism of rank incompetence. JMHO:biggrin:

.....and it makes me question their integrity, on a personal level. What about the officer who was originally in charge of the investigation? Wasn't he being investigated himself for a crime? Hmmmm ... :shrug:

[andU]

You have your opinion I have mine.

I love it when the "bad guys" are always the LE..
They planted it, leaked it to the press to cover their butts...

Well I guess they are good for something then right?

You even go as far as saying you have no faith in the "new man"...

Must be because he wears a badge you are not fond of..

Had many run in's with LE in your life? Apparently so...
A little bitter? Apparently so

Fortunately all the LE I have had to deal with in my life were not as corrupt as all that have been in yours. Believe it or not, there are very good people out there doing an extremely hard job. Which isn't planting bodily fluids to try and frame a mother and father who has a missing child!!

I think that is completely absurd and when all is done, I think you will be eating crow..... Hope you are hungry!!!

IMHO

But then, you might be the one who has to eat crow, too..... stranger things have happened. I think it is too late to undo the mess and make any sense out of it.

[Seashell]

.....and it makes me question their integrity, on a personal level. What about the officer who was originally in charge of the investigation? Wasn't he being investigated himself for a crime? Hmmmm ... :shrug:

yup you are correct, the ex police chief was accused of hitting a woman who murdered her own daughter.
She confessed and is serving her time in jail.

[Seashell]

andU:
1 – Joana Cipriano vanished from a small place 10 km in the outskirts of Portimão. Last time somebody saw her, she was on her way to a local groceries shop;
2 - Her mother, Leonor Cipriano, only reported to Police her daughter has disappeared two days after;
3 – After a long and difficult investigation, headed by Chief-Inspector Gonçalo Amaral, Leonor Cipriano and her brother were accused of murdering the eight years old child;
4 – The body of Joana Cipriano was never found, but samples of her blood were found in her mother refrigerator;
5 – Her mother justified those samples of blood admitting she had beaten Joana, for some reason, she was hurt and she bleeded from her nose;
6 – Leonor Cipriano and her brother, who had a incestuous relationship, were sentenced to 16 years in jail, for the murder of her daughter and niece;
7 – Before the trial, Leonor Cipriano accused five CID officers of beating her, trying to extract a confession. She named the five CID officers, and included Chief-Inspector Gonçalo ("Amaral Lector", according to British tabloids…);
8 – The Public Prosecutor’s Office opened a criminal investigation and ordered a police line-up, with the CID officers named and accused by Leonor Cipriano of beating her;
9 – The line-up took place with Leonor Cipriano behind a two-way mirror and she couldn’t recognize any of the aggressors;
10 – The Public Prosecutor’s Office magistrate that was in charge of the criminal investigation decided to accuse the five CID officers, but didn’t mentioned, in the accusation sent to the Court, that Leonor Cipriano couldn’t identify any of the aggressors, in the police line-up;
11 – Leonor Cipriano never confessed the murder of her own daughter. Her brother, in a letter written from jail, accused Leonor Cipriano of selling her daughter;
12 – Police is convinced (and the jurors at the trial found enough evidence to pass a verdict of guilty) that Leonor Cipriano and her brother were found, by Joana, having sexual relations, when she came home, back from the groceries shop. As Leonor Cipriano had a lover, at the time, they were afraid she would tell him what she saw;
13 – So, they beat her, in order to frighten her and keep her mouth shut up;
14 – Perhaps accidentally, they beat her so violently that they killed her. So, they decided to get rid of he body and cut it in pieces, keeping some of them in the freezer, while they gave the other pieces to be eaten by pigs (this is what police believes is the strongest possibility, because there was no other trace of Joana Cipriano, unless the blood samples in her mother freezer…)
15 – The body of Joana Cipriano was never found.

This makes him a criminal?

[bullmoose]

yup you are correct, the ex police chief was accused of hitting a woman who murdered her own daughter.
She confessed and is serving her time in jail.

That is your version of events; my recollection is that the woman, who 'confessed' claims to have been beaten and tortured until the cops squeezed a confession out of her. She was convicted based on the confession; my own opinion, based on the abysmal performance of the Portugese cops up to this point, with their endless 'leaks' of horseplop that seemingly incriminate the McCann's is that the woman probably 'is telling the truth about how the cops induced her to confess. Crooked cops do crooked things; since IMO the Portugese cops have, up to now, acted shamefully and dishonestly; I cannot not help but think that the convicted woman may in fact be innocent. JMHO

[Seashell]

That is your version of events; my recollection is that the woman, who 'confessed' claims to have been beaten and tortured until the cops squeezed a confession out of her. She was convicted based on the confession; my own opinion, based on the abysmal performance of the Portugese cops up to this point, with their endless 'leaks' of horseplop that seemingly incriminate the McCann's is that the woman probably 'is telling the truth about how the cops induced her to confess. Crooked cops do crooked things; since IMO the Portugese cops have, up to now, acted shamefully and dishonestly; I cannot not help but think that the convicted woman may in fact be innocent. JMHO


FYI
the murderers were found, accused, went to court, they were sentenced, they appealed the sentence and the Portuguese Supreme Court reduced it to 16 years of jail to both of them – the mother, Leonor Cipriano and her brother, for the murder her daughter and niece, eight year old Joana Cipriano.

[bullmoose]

You have your opinion I have mine.

I love it when the "bad guys" are always the LE..
They planted it, leaked it to the press to cover their butts...

Well I guess they are good for something then right?

You even go as far as saying you have no faith in the "new man"...

Must be because he wears a badge you are not fond of..

Had many run in's with LE in your life? Apparently so...
A little bitter? Apparently so

Fortunately all the LE I have had to deal with in my life were not as corrupt as all that have been in yours. Believe it or not, there are very good people out there doing an extremely hard job. Which isn't planting bodily fluids to try and frame a mother and father who has a missing child!!

I think that is completely absurd and when all is done, I think you will be eating crow..... Hope you are hungry!!!

IMHO
I believe that people in LE are no more honest than the average person on the street and probably no less; however a liar on the street doesn't have the power to arrest you and cause you all kinds of legal problems; but dirty cops have that power and are very nearly impossible to bring to justice when they do wrong. As for planting body fluids, I doubt there ever were any in that car unless a cop drooled over his do-nut while perusing it. Actually, most of the people I have dealt with in LE have been honest, just a few were not. But it doesn't take very many crooked cops to screw up the entire system, just like a wildfire only takes a match to start, then watch it go. JMHO

[andU]

I have no history with LE personally, but I don't trust many of them to be honest and outstanding citizens. FWIW, one of my best friend's husband is the chief of police where I reside. He is an exception and a wonderful person.

[Seashell]

McCann priest: "I feel deceived"
Thursday, 18 October 2007
The catholic priest who helped the parents of Madeleine McCann in Portugal now says he regrets forming such a close bond with them and feels “deceived”.

Father Jose Pacheco gave the couple a set of keys to the church and was impressed by the strength of their faith as well as being moved by their obvious distress.

But he says now he was left “confused” by his closeness to the pair: “I was deceived. I was just doing my job supporting lost souls “I would do that again with any family who were in their situation. I didn’t do anything wrong.’’

He was shocked to discover the couple had undergone IVF treatment to have their children. IVF is viewed by some Catholics as against the will of God.

The couple met the priest the day after Madeleine went missing and attended daily mass at the Our Lady of Light church in Pria de Luz.

He gave them a key to the church, which Gerry McCann used to pray in the early hours, say relatives.

When the McCann’s were named as suspects in the case they stopped seeing the priest.

Father Pacheco has been questioned by detectives who wanted to know if Kate had confessed to him.

But a close friend says he would “rather rip out his tongue” than reveal the secrets of the confessional.

Police spent an hour last week examining a cemetery outside Father Jose’s church. They are considering digging for the little girl’s body there.

One of the priest’s friends said: “He was very impressed by the McCanns’ religious conviction and genuinely moved by their inconsolable grief. “He wanted to do everything he could to help them, and it seemed natural to offer them the keys to the church.

“They were under intense media pressure at the time and he wanted to give them the opportunity to express their grief and offer their prayers in private. “It was not normal practice to hand out the keys and did not go down well with his superiors.

“In hindsight he recognises he perhaps got a little too close to the couple and it may have clouded his judgment. “He was also surprised how suddenly his relationship with the McCanns’ ended. “But he says he’ll continue to pray for them.’’ Police have accused Kate of accidentally killing her daughter with sedatives.

The McCanns strongly deny the allegations against them and insist Madeleine was abducted.


I am wondering why the Mccanns stopped seeing th priest once they were declared arguidos?
Priests cannot ever discuss confessions and what i also ask is this, i read somewhere else that the priest decided to go to some other place to attend his duties, was he avoiding meeting the Mccanns? what does it make one think?

http://www.thelondonpaper.com/cs/Satellite/london/news/article/1157149387510?packedargs=suffix%3DArticleControlle r

[margaritaville]

But then, you might be the one who has to eat crow, too..... stranger things have happened. I think it is too late to undo the mess and make any sense out of it.


Not they way it is looking i still say i hope your hungry! :seeya:


Traces of Madeleine's blood in her parents' holiday apartment are also said to have been found.

Tests on the bodily fluids found in the hire car are understood to show that they came from a corpse and that the body was moved.

Sources also indicate that the volume of material found is too great for it to have been transferred via Madeleine's toys or clothing or from her parents' possessions.

It is also believed that the tests have produced no evidence to indicate the involvement of any other person.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=491270&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

[bullmoose]

Not they way it is looking i still say i hope your hungry! :seeya:


Traces of Madeleine's blood in her parents' holiday apartment are also said to have been found.

Tests on the bodily fluids found in the hire car are understood to show that they came from a corpse and that the body was moved.

Sources also indicate that the volume of material found is too great for it to have been transferred via Madeleine's toys or clothing or from her parents' possessions.

It is also believed that the tests have produced no evidence to indicate the involvement of any other person.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=491270&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

Gee Whiz, how I love that term 'sources'; I've been hearing threats against the McCann's if they do anything at all to interfer in the case, yet these 'sources' just seem to pop up to bolster the ravings of the incompetent Portugese Cops, as if on cue. If there be real evidence, let it come out in court, I for one do not believe that these 'sources' are much more than the gin-soaked musings of tabloid reporters. The 'sources' should go into politics, liars are welcomed into that field. JMHO:biggrin:

[Eagle1]

I know - playing on people's sympathies to make a buck - that's pretty blunt and would be nice if it wasn't/isn't the case but it's - so COMMERCIAL!!!


Thanks to you two for pointing this out about people making money on the case, commercializing, but I'm not much into business so I'll leave that up to you. And we don't want to get distracted about that, any more than about what the way-too-vocal couple have said which is distracting. They seem to be cleaning up their act, imo, since they've been told they were just causing negative feedback, suspicion. Gerry was squeezing Kate's hand whenever she'd start to speak, in at least one interview I read about, but he didn't do a bit better.

A legal expert on TV in America, Nancy Grace's program, said these clients were not being "managed" well by their counsel. Amen.

[Bluefox]

There has been absolutely nothing printed in Britain, saying the McCann's friends are being made suspects. Because this case was handled so badly at the beginning, it has resulted in speculation bordering on histeria.

Apparently, the new policeman in charge in Portugal, has said he will find Madeleine within 5 months. If it's true, i truly hope he can live up to that statement!

On being interviewed, the Spanish team investigating for Mr & Mrs McCann, have said they have 23 years experience, but i very much doubt they have any experience with mountainous drug barons.

The media must take some of the blame surely for the confusion. I think Portugal must also change their laws radically. They must learn that the public are very much an important part of solving crimes.

The Truth will come out sooner or later, i just hope and pray that Madeleine will be found alive and well.

[Eagle1]

[QUOTE=Bluefox;9044810]............

On being interviewed, the Spanish team investigating for Mr & Mrs McCann, have said they have 23 years experience, but i very much doubt they have any experience with mountainous drug barons..

The media must take some of the blame surely for the confusion. I think Portugal must also change their laws radically. They must learn that the public are very much an important part of solving crimes..........[QUOTE]


Re Mountainous drug barons, they're reportedly in S. America and most everywhere in mountainous regions, right? Has anyone studied this at all? I haven't, sorry, but need it for a thread, already started, about that. Bin Laden is said to be probably hiding in mountains. These are the Rif mountains in N. Morocco. In Updates Only today, I believe Odette reported that authorities there state Maddie's not there, but wouldn't they naturally say that, whether or not they actually know. What do you think of the middle aged woman so many witnesses have allegedly seen? What's she doing, going back and forth so much instead of staying inside?

I may not post any more than this at CL today, trying to avoid bringing in sources that may not be allowed, slips of the tongue and other peoples' slips of the tongue which I might accidentally spill because they can be so exciting even they couldn't contain them w/out telling someone. I'm a poor candidate to tell, having to diskcleanup and defrag a lot, and afraid I got over excited too, at least one time. Don't anyone confide any big ones to me, please.

[Seashell]

Thursday November 8,2007
By Martin Evans in Praia da Luz Have your say(447)
TWO members of the party that dined with Kate and Gerry McCann on the night their daughter disappeared have told police they want to change their stories, it was sensationally claimed last night.

Lawyers acting for the pair allegedly contacted Portuguese detectives informing them their clients wanted to be re-interviewed in order to “correct” their original statements.



The McCanns’ official spokesman last night angrily dismissed the claims but sources close to the investigation said the pair had kept their decision secret in order to avoid pressure from anyone else in the group.


The startling claim comes just days after it emerged that four members of the so called Tapas Nine – who had dinner with Kate and Gerry on the evening of May 3 – were about to be declared official suspects by the Portuguese police. Detectives were understood to be concerned about alleged inconsistencies in statements given by the McCanns’ friends shortly after Madeleine went missing.


It was claimed Dr Russell O’Brien and his partner Jane Tanner, Matthew Oldfield and Dr David Payne were all expecting to be made arguidos in the coming days. The respected Spanish newspaper El Mundo suggested it was this which had led to two members of the group changing their stories.


The paper claimed: “Lawyers of two of the friends of the McCanns that dined with them on the night of May 3 in the tapas restaurant have contacted police recently and said their clients are willing to be re-questioned so they can ‘correct’ details of their original statements.


“These two members of the group have asked for their identities to be kept secret because they fear that as a result of the ‘clarifications’ they intend making about what happened the night Madeleine disappeared, they may be pressured by people linked to the McCanns.”

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/24504/McCann-friends-want-to-give-new-statements-

It seems Gerry Mccann sent 14 text messaged during the 2 hours of meal.

[Seashell]

Her refusal speaks volumes :rolleyes:

KATE McCann has done a U-turn over plans to take a lie detector test about daughter Madeleine’s disappearance.


She and husband Gerry offered to undergo a polygraph examination in September to clear their names. They hoped it would help to clear up any doubts about their involvement.



Sources close to the couple made it known they were willing to be questioned after Kate was officially declared an “arguido” or official suspect in the case in Portugal.

I was left with the impression the whole thing was a PR exercise to get sympathy
Polygraph expert Don Cargill


But despite being approached by a leading UK polygraph expert, mother-of-three Kate, 39, turned down the chance. Don Cargill, chairman of the British And Euro-pean Polygraph Association, said he was “shocked” by her decision.

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/25546/Madeleine-mystery-Kate-refuses-lie-test

[Pak31]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312091,00.html

Now a PI for the McCann's says he's 100% certain Maddy is still alive. It's different everyday.

[Results]

Why would she not be willing to take a polly? I would be screaming for one and now she has one of the best in the UK offering her one and denies to take it? Weird. JMHO

[Jayelles]

It's another unsubstantiated tabloid story. The facts that we DO know are that polygraphs are neither used by police here or in Portugal nor are they admissible in either the UK or in Portuguese courts. We also know that the McCanns have been in contact with Elizabeth Smart's family (who had inconclusive polygraphs despite being entirely innocent).

If true, this sounds as though the McCanns have been asked to take polygraphs not for the purpose of officially furthering the investigation but for the sake of satisfying public or tabloid curiosity (in which case I wouldn't blame them for declining). Had the police asked them to take polygraphs and they'd declined it would put a slightly different light on the matter.

However, the bottom line is that I would tend to always reserve judgment on these unsubstantiated tabloid stories. The Express is frequently wrong. It never fails to amaze me how people continue to accept them as though they were gospel truth - despite the track record of being wrong!

[Eagle1]

Everybody knows what they say about polygraphs not being totally reliable, but in cases we've known where people were totally innocent, and were hiding no mental disorders, usually they want to take the polygraph just to show they're not afraid to.

And not speaking of any certain one of the few who continally try to mesmerize us by saying everything's misleading, we also know they can certainly at times be wrong, and themselves misleading. One uses all caps to post. I for one skip over it all and reserve the right to wait for the facts, then make up my own mind, noticing ideas about what really happened to Maddie and where to look for her are conspicuous by their absence, and there's too much concern for the parents rather than the real victim, to the exclusion, in fact, of the real victim, an innocent defenseless child.

BTW, I guess we'll hear nothing else during this holiday week but the arrest in the Natalee Holloway case, which is probably going to turn out to be nothing or almost nothing. Will help their tourist industry? Hope I'm wrong, of course.

[Jayelles]

Everybody knows what they say about polygraphs not being totally reliable, but in cases we've known where people were totally innocent, and were hiding no mental disorders, usually they want to take the polygraph just to show they're not afraid to.

And not speaking of any certain one of the few who continally try to mesmerize us by saying everything's misleading, we also know they can certainly at times be wrong, and themselves misleading. One uses all caps to post. I for one skip over it all and reserve the right to wait for the facts, then make up my own mind, noticing ideas about what really happened to Maddie and where to look for her are conspicuous by their absence, and there's too much concern for the parents rather than the real victim, to the exclusion, in fact, of the real victim, an innocent defenseless child.

BTW, I guess we'll hear nothing else during this holiday week but the arrest in the Natalee Holloway case, which is probably going to turn out to be nothing or almost nothing. Will help their tourist industry? Hope I'm wrong, of course.


There is a difference between taking a police requested and administered polygraph to show that one isn't afraid to do so and agreeing to take a tabloid newspaper administered on in order to feed the tabloids with more sensational gossip don't you agree?

No-one is trying to "mesmerise" you - seriously. However, if you really DID want to wait for the facts, then you wouldn't be constantly posting tabloid rumours and lies as though they were indeed facts. I really do wish you would skip over them instead of taking them to other forums "for discussion".

It is a FACT that it's completely misleading to call Gerry McCann a "Government doctor". That suggests that he has Government affiliations .... that he works directly for the Government. He does not. Your posts on this matter have been entirely misleading regardless of your attacks towards those who point this out.

[andU]

There is a difference between taking a police requested and administered polygraph to show that one isn't afraid to do so and agreeing to take a tabloid newspaper administered on in order to feed the tabloids with more sensational gossip don't you agree?

No-one is trying to "mesmerise" you - seriously. However, if you really DID want to wait for the facts, then you wouldn't be constantly posting tabloid rumours and lies as though they were indeed facts. I really do wish you would skip over them instead of taking them to other forums "for discussion".

It is a FACT that it's completely misleading to call Gerry McCann a "Government doctor". That suggests that he has Government affiliations .... that he works directly for the Government. He does not. Your posts on this matter have been entirely misleading regardless of your attacks towards those who point this out.

I have not really held much worth to polygraphs nor hand writing analysis, for that matter. They cannot be used in court, right? If a person has a mind set to do so he/she can beat or be beaten by the polygraph. I don't think I would submit to one; especially in a foreign country. I'm not a very trusting person (and don't travel internationally) in the first place.

[Angie1960]

I have not really held much worth to polygraphs nor hand writing analysis, for that matter. They cannot be used in court, right? If a person has a mind set to do so he/she can beat or be beaten by the polygraph. I don't think I would submit to one; especially in a foreign country. I'm not a very trusting person (and don't travel internationally) in the first place.

I would be scared to death to take one and I'm probably the most honest person I know. I would just be so nervous and I have a guilt complex anyway. There's been a lot of cases where polygraphs were wrong.

[Eagle1]

Why would she not be willing to take a polly? I would be screaming for one and now she has one of the best in the UK offering her one and denies to take it? Weird. JMHO

Just what I'm thinking, couldn't agree more. It saves a lot of time for one thing, because refusing always just raises more questions.

BTW, in the Baby Grace case, as everyone's probably heard, they're waiting for DNA confirmation of a tentative identity, not Maddie.

[Jayelles]

Just what I'm thinking, couldn't agree more. It saves a lot of time for one thing, because refusing always just raises more questions.

BTW, in the Baby Grace case, as everyone's probably heard, they're waiting for DNA confirmation of a tentative identity, not Maddie.

Since you are continuing to discuss this as though it were an established fact, could you provide a credible source that she :-

a) was asked to take a polygraph by LE (either British or Portuguese)

b) refused to take it

[Louisadelmar]

[...] We also know that the McCanns have been in contact with Elizabeth Smart's family (who had inconclusive polygraphs despite being entirely innocent).

[...]!

Dorthy Moxley also had an inconclusive polygraph.

[andU]

I would be scared to death to take one and I'm probably the most honest person I know. I would just be so nervous and I have a guilt complex anyway. There's been a lot of cases where polygraphs were wrong.

I would trust more the facial expressions, eye contact and general body language than a polygraph test. There's no way I would take one.

[Seashell]

Polygraph is good to a certain point in important investigations, i wouldnt be alarmed in the least to use one if i needed to clear my name.

Its not the first nor the last time a Mother has killed her children if she is innocent then i dont see why she wont do it.
JMHO

[Jayelles]

Polygraph is good to a certain point in important investigations, i wouldnt be alarmed in the least to use one if i needed to clear my name.

Its not the first nor the last time a Mother has killed her children if she is innocent then i dont see why she wont do it.
JMHO

As I said above, we don't know that she DID refuse to take a polygraph - this is just another tabloid story (which has disappeared into the ether) and the tabloids have been reliably wrong about this case.

Every single day I look at the newspaper stand and half the newspapers are saying one thing whilst the other half are saying the opposite. One learns to take it all with a huge pinch of salt.

It's such a great pity that people are still accepting tabloid garbage as fact when 9 stories out of 10 have been proved to be garbage. I wonder whether if these people were greeted every morning by someone who told them a lie would they be taken in every time? I guess some would since con artists still thrive in this day and age despite many of the scams being well publicised.

When I hear "Kate McCann refuses polygraph", I ask "Is this true?" not "Why did she do that?".

Polygraphs are not used by British or Portuguese police. If a tabloid newspaper sponsored this so called polygraph then they had a story either way. If she agreed to it - they would have a massive story from the results. If she refused, they had a story from her refusal. As it happens, this particular story died a quick death here.

If I was in her position and was asked to take a polygraph by investigators and I knew that it might further the investigation, I'd do it. But I certainly wouldn't take one for the purpose of giving some vicious tabloid newspaper a opportunity to cash in on it.