Child homicides: Statistics in England and Wales

[cat840]

To understand why LE is focusing on the parents I think this (http://www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/resourcesforprofessionals/Statistics/KeyCPStats/4_wda48747.html) link gives a good understanding of the world LE sees everyday.

[Jayelles]

To understand why LE is focusing on the parents I think this (http://www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/resourcesforprofessionals/Statistics/KeyCPStats/4_wda48747.html) link gives a good understanding of the world LE sees everyday.

I'm struggling to understand why the stats from England are Wales are pertinent to the behaviour of the police in Portugal.

[cat840]

I'm struggling to understand why the stats from England are Wales are pertinent to the behaviour of the police in Portugal.

The McCanns come from England. And the crime occured in Portugal.

[Jayelles]

The McCanns come from England. And the crime occured in Portugal.

Precisely - so why are the stats from England and Wales pertinent to the behaviour of LE in Portugal?

You gave the link to the (England and Wales) stats "to help understand why (Portuguese) LE is focusing on the parents".

Had we been talking about the English police, this might have some relevance. Believe me - the Portuguese police are nothing like the police here!

[cat840]

Precisely - so why are the stats from England and Wales pertinent to the behaviour of LE in Portugal?

You gave the link to the (England and Wales) stats "to help understand why (Portuguese) LE is focusing on the parents".

Had we been talking about the English police, this might have some relevance. Believe me - the Portuguese police are nothing like the police here!

Do you suggest that English parents would change their behavior abroad?

Why would not Portuguese LE be interested in the statistics of the society the parents have lived in?

Please post the statistics you think is relevant. IMO it is relevant that in the society the McCanns come from

"On average, every week in England and Wales one child is killed at the hands of their parent"

[andU]

Do you suggest that English parents would change their behavior abroad?

Why would not Portuguese LE be interested in the statistics of the society the parents have lived in?

Please post the statistics you think is relevant. IMO it is relevant that in the society the McCanns come from

"On average, every week in England and Wales one child is killed at the hands of their parent"

But, here, we have a British family on vacation in Portugal... if they were going to do away with their kids, why would they spend the money to take them on vacation? I have to pooh-pooh that suggestion.

[cat840]

But, here, we have a British family on vacation in Portugal... if they were going to do away with their kids, why would they spend the money to take them on vacation? I have to pooh-pooh that suggestion.

You put forward a suggestion and pooh-pooh it yourself. What is the point?

I pooh-pooh your suggestion also. Why don't you put forward something related to the topic of the thread instead,namely statistics of child homicide.

[andU]

You put forward a suggestion and pooh-pooh it yourself. What is the point?

I pooh-pooh your suggestion also. Why don't you put forward something related to the topic of the thread instead,namely statistics of child homicide.


I was pooh-poohing your suggestion. What is the point (exactly!) in the parents taking Maddie all the way to Portugal to murder her?

[cat840]

I was pooh-poohing your suggestion. What is the point (exactly!) in the parents taking Maddie all the way to Portugal to murder her?

What suggestion are you referring to? Something in another thread?

You are talking about murder, I'm talking about homicide. Why do you wan't to steer all my posts into speculation about what happened to Maddie?

I don't want to speculate, I just want to give people of the board some food for thought.

[elvislives]

Cat, I addressed this question of yours in another thread but perhaps you missed it.

I don't think ANYONE would criticize the police for investigating the parents of a missing child. In fact it would be quite irresponsible NOT to investigate them, given the statistics on child homocides. That is usually where the investigation starts.

The criticism toward the PJ is based not on the fact that they are scrutinizing the parents but on their flawed and unethical investigation. Surely you don't think they are doing an outstanding, professional and thorough job solving this case do you?

I've been following this case from the start and every expert I have heard quoted (from Scotland Yard to the FBI) say that the case has been bungled and mishandled reprehensibly from the beginning. Furthermore, the PJ who has little experience solving such cases has REJECTED offers by SY to assist. THAT is where the criticism is focused!!!

[cat840]

Cat, I addressed this question of yours in another thread but perhaps you missed it.

I don't think ANYONE would criticize the police for investigating the parents of a missing child. In fact it would be quite irresponsible NOT to investigate them, given the statistics on child homocides. That is usually where the investigation starts.

The criticism toward the PJ is based not on the fact that they are scrutinizing the parents but on their flawed and unethical investigation. Surely you don't think they are doing an outstanding, professional and thorough job solving this case do you?

I've been following this case from the start and every expert I have heard quoted (from Scotland Yard to the FBI) say that the case has been bungled and mishandled reprehensibly from the beginning. Furthermore, the PJ who has little experience solving such cases has REJECTED offers by SY to assist. THAT is where the criticism is focused!!!

IA with what you say. The sad thing is that if the parents had been examined more closely from the start it would be better for them if they were innocent. Then there woudn't be any speculation about what was missed and it would be clear that they were innocent. As is stands now if Maddie god forbid is not found I don't think they will escape an everlingering suspicion ala the Ramsey case.

But again, did LE really have the mandate to start investigating the parents closely from the beginning, I don't think so. They had to start out believing the parents, LE is composed of humans and treating the parents as suspects right after the fact is just too cruel even for Portuguese LE.

I have written this without fact checking so please bear with me if I have missed out on some facts.

[elvislives]

IA with what you say. The sad thing is that if the parents had been examined more closely from the start it would be better for them if they were innocent. Then there woudn't be any speculation about what was missed and it would be clear that they were innocent. As is stands now if Maddie god forbid is not found I don't think they will escape an everlingering suspicion ala the Ramsey case.

But again, did LE really have the mandate to start investigating the parents closely from the beginning, I don't think so. They had to start out believing the parents, LE is composed of humans and treating the parents as suspects right after the fact is just too cruel even for Portuguese LE.

I have written this without fact checking so please bear with me if I have missed out on some facts.


The fact that LE did not thoroughly investigate the parents from the very start has been one of the primary criticisms made by the FBI and the NCMEC (national center for missing and exploited children). As painful as it may be for parents in this situation, it HAS to be done and is standard protocol in the US.

Unfortunately at this late stage, I think the trail is so cold that the case will likely never be solved unless there is some profound breakthru. jmo

[Pelicanette]

Proof is needed to arrest and charge someone for murder. There is no proof against the McCanns. Statistics do not convict anyone. Besides, IMO Kate and Gerry in no way fit the description of parents who kill their children, either by design or by accident.

[Pelicanette]

I doubt there will be a resolution to this case. The police bungled it from the start. I think they have looked at the parents and there just is no proof against them. But they are staying focused on the parents in the hope that it will take the glare off their own mistakes and failures. It is outrageous what the police there have done, from failing to secure the crime scene to refusing to take an abduction seriously to leaking all sorts of lies about the parents.

[Sharon]

I doubt there will be a resolution to this case. The police bungled it from the start. I think they have looked at the parents and there just is no proof against them. But they are staying focused on the parents in the hope that it will take the glare off their own mistakes and failures. It is outrageous what the police there have done, from failing to secure the crime scene to refusing to take an abduction seriously to leaking all sorts of lies about the parents.

I agree. I guess now the police will continue to make the evidence fit their theory at any cost. This is a common strategy when the crime is bungled from the beginning.

The only hope of this being solved from now on is for someone who knows something to become an informer. This case will have to be solved by people in the (world) community because the perp. left little to no clues.

[Jayelles]

I agree. I guess now the police will continue to make the evidence fit their theory at any cost. This is a common strategy when the crime is bungled from the beginning.

The only hope of this being solved from now on is for someone who knows something to become an informer. This case will have to be solved by people in the (world) community because the perp. left little to no clues.


That's a good point and one which was mentioned in a news article about JARIC. It said something along the lines of how paedophiles "make a lot of noise" on the Internet and how the intelligence people at GCHQ (Government Communications HQ) would be able to intercept and read their e-mails - but would only do so if they were authorised.

[Pelicanette]

The real tragedy is that Madeleine could be alive somewhere, even now, and the police might have found her if they had tried. I do not think they really looked for Madeleine in their own backyard because of their precious tourist industry. It would not look good for them to admit that a pedophile stole a child from one of their nicest reorts.

[Jayelles]

The real tragedy is that Madeleine could be alive somewhere, even now, and the police might have found her if they had tried. I do not think they really looked for Madeleine in their own backyard because of their precious tourist industry. It would not look good for them to admit that a pedophile stole a child from one of their nicest reorts.

This is the fundamental issue. One of the things we know to be fact is that Madeleine is missing. I've read posts and blogs by people who claim to only care about Madeleine - yet they believe her parents killed her and are focusing on proving that. Surely if these people really cared about Madeleine, then they would give her parents the benefit of the doubt and keep looking for her? This should not be getting treated as a murder case unless a body is found or until there is definitive proof that a murder took place. Madeleine needs everyone to keep looking for her.

Too much time is being wasted trying to build a case against the parents.

I really hope this satellite intelligence data is a goer. That would be brilliant.

[Eagle1]

IA with what you say. The sad thing is that if the parents had been examined more closely from the start it would be better for them if they were innocent. Then there woudn't be any speculation about what was missed and it would be clear that they were innocent. As is stands now if Maddie god forbid is not found I don't think they will escape an everlingering suspicion ala the Ramsey case.

But again, did LE really have the mandate to start investigating the parents closely from the beginning, I don't think so. They had to start out believing the parents, LE is composed of humans and treating the parents as suspects right after the fact is just too cruel even for Portuguese LE.

I have written this without fact checking so please bear with me if I have missed out on some facts.

Something about your post reminded me I heard somewhere that Kate had been in contact with no less than SIX bodies, reason the scent of death was on her clothes. Jeans?

Did she also work at a morgue? She hadn't had six patients die, right? I keep forgetting to check the updates to see if there's anything about this. And if it's true, what about the scent on cuddlecat and on one of the Tappas 9 women friends?

Maybe I should have put this in the Red Flags thread.

[cat840]

Something about your post reminded me I heard somewhere that Kate had been in contact with no less than SIX bodies, reason the scent of death was on her clothes. Jeans?

Did she also work at a morgue? She hadn't had six patients die, right? I keep forgetting to check the updates to see if there's anything about this. And if it's true, what about the scent on cuddlecat and on one of the Tappas 9 women friends?

Maybe I should have put this in the Red Flags thread.

Myself I really don't understand how LE or reporters can come up with stuff like "she was in contact with six dead bodies". I just don't understand the forensics that lead to such a conclusion.

Anyway the purpose of this thread was just a reminder that parents that come from the same social background as the McCanns actually sometimes kills their own children even to the extent of once per week according to the link. I feel some posters just don't want to accept this fact and feels that just thinking something like this is just bad.

When evidence is examined some say that there is no strong evidence pointing to the McCanns but there is neither any strong evidence pointing to an intruder. Still we have a missing child... thats a fact, someone did it and then statistics is an important tool to use to know where to go next. This tool leads investigators to the parents.

[Eagle1]

Myself I really don't understand how LE or reporters can come up with stuff like "she was in contact with six dead bodies". I just don't understand the forensics that lead to such a conclusion.
.................

When evidence is examined some say that there is no strong evidence pointing to the McCanns but there is neither any strong evidence pointing to an intruder. Still we have a missing child... thats a fact, someone did it and then statistics is an important tool to use to know where to go next. This tool leads investigators to the parents.

No, no, I believe Kate is the one who stated she'd been in contact with six dead bodies. And, like you, I didn't check before starting this so as to give any link, sorry. I'm asking rather than stating. Is this true? If so, were they Kate's patients? Or did she also work for a morgue? Just asking.