Serial killers that have found God?

[abigailjazz]

are you aware that David Berkowitz, aka the Son of Sam has a very controversial, yet, supported website where he has a testimonial about becoming a Bible- believing Born again Christian?

http://www.forgivenforlife.com

what do you think about this? Can we trust a man that brutally murdered six beautiful, innocent young people? He has no chance for parole, but cant a devious, unbalanced mind think maybe my good behavior can get me outta prison? Or do you think that anyone can be forgiven by God? Great men of the Bible were murderers, including Moses and the apostle Paul.

Other Born-agains: charles 'Tex' watson, Susan atkins, Mark David Chapman, Sean sellors and even Jeff Dahmer claimed to be a forgiven soul.

whatcha think?

[NeuroSuspension]

I'm sure they can be trusted to an extent. I know a psychoanalyst who came into my Criminal Justice class to talk to us. He interviewed Charles "Tex" Watson and David Berkowitz. He said that they're really nice and they talk to you like you've been best friends for years! He said that they are so mellow and nice. Yet, when he asked them about their crimes, they told it like they were talking about an episode of a TV show or something. They felt little to no remorse, of course.

With all this said, I'm sure that they have found God and that it has made them better people. However, if they were freed, I am sure they would go back to killing. I hear David Berkowitz is a minister in prison. Haha.

[abigailjazz]

I'm sure they can be trusted to an extent. I know a psychoanalyst who came into my Criminal Justice class to talk to us. He interviewed Charles "Tex" Watson and David Berkowitz. He said that they're really nice and they talk to you like you've been best friends for years! He said that they are so mellow and nice. Yet, when he asked them about their crimes, they told it like they were talking about an episode of a TV show or something. They felt little to no remorse, of course.

With all this said, I'm sure that they have found God and that it has made them better people. However, if they were freed, I am sure they would go back to killing. I hear David Berkowitz is a minister in prison. Haha.

Well, lets just say, they better be right with God, cause if they aint---watch out!

Not disbuting the sincerity of Berko or tex, but doesnt it feel like all this attention that they get from these conversions is a slap in the victims faces? Cannot they quietly live a life of devotion to Christ without all the hoopalla? i know the website owner of forgivenforlife and hes---well, lets say we are not friends anymore.---ive actually found a bible passage that says Christians are not to support murderers.

altho the stories are---if true---inspiring. But this glamorization of mass murderers and SKS is getting under my skin. The Christian community really jumps on these extreme conversions and i feel maybe Mrs. moskowitz or the tate family are being extended in their agonies as the killers of their children become Christian celebrities.

God can use these testimonies to nspire others, but i still feel ill at ease about celebrating reformed killers!

[abigailjazz]

also, i can act really nice and charming for an extended period of time! You said that someone at school told you these were nice guyz? Im not saying hteir lying out-right, im just saying one can never be to careful.

Berko has been a model prisoner for 20 years or so. But to have an online journal that has him in a spirtual authority. I just think its over the top and altho i THINK he and others may be telling the truth, we cant be certain.

after meeting the website owner, i have certain doubts as that guy was a nutter!

[mnoffki]

I don't buy it. Maybe said serial killer thinks he's "recovered" or somehow a better person, but it will never erase what was done, nor will it take away the mental issues that led to what was done. It wouldn't suprise me one bit if one of these born agains, if freed, went back to killing and then claimed that God told them to do it.

[AmyW]

I, personally, find it hard to believe that someone that could commit such terrible crimes would find God only after being captured. I hope he's sincere and I'm thankful that the proceeds go to his victims. If he is truly remorseful and has asked God to come into his heart, then I'm really glad for him. If it's just a ploy for attention, I'd hate to be him on judgement day. :no:

[diamond d]

To me this is not particularly surprising. A person who commits such horrendous crimes like David did, is exactly the kind of person the Lord God will want to heal. The fact that it was after David was caught when he found God or God found him makes sense also. The reason being that David was forced to stop his killings against his will and sent to jail. In jail over the years he went through the many steps needed to reach self surrender. Self surrender is when a person gives up protecting themselves from who they are and what they have done. Once David reached this point, the Lord God was able to enter his life. What is important now is that David strengthen and maintain his personal relationship with the Lord God, in doing so he will have the inner peace he has searched for for so many years.

[Auntie Venom]

I don't think that their conversions have any bearing on anything they did in the past. I do not doubt that Karla Faye Tucker was saved and was trying to live a decent life and help others. Does that erase what she did? No. It means only that she's square with the Lord, the rest of us are still owed the debt. You finish your sentence, the debt is paid. You can believe in whatever you want, and preach whatever you want, but you still owe society a debt and it must be paid. If you are truly a Christian you understand that.
I think that those who are sincere regret their crime and they may sound detached when discussing it due to having comparimentalized their feelings.

[diamond d]

I don't think that their conversions have any bearing on anything they did in the past. I do not doubt that Karla Faye Tucker was saved and was trying to live a decent life and help others. Does that erase what she did? No. It means only that she's square with the Lord, the rest of us are still owed the debt. You finish your sentence, the debt is paid. You can believe in whatever you want, and preach whatever you want, but you still owe society a debt and it must be paid. If you are truly a Christian you understand that.
I think that those who are sincere regret their crime and they may sound detached when discussing it due to having comparimentalized their feelings.

Well my friend, looks like I'm going to have to beg to differ with you. The part I differ on is when you say that if one was truly Christian they would understand the fact that the criminal owes society a debt that must be paid. According to Christianity, the only debt one owes is that to the Lord God. We humans do not have the right to judge another, we humans do not have the right to determine who is moral and who is not among other things. The Lord God is the only one who has that right and ability to place judgment upon another. So therefor the only debt that is owed by the criminal is the debt to the Lord God and not to his/her fellow humans. So in your statement I would delete the part that states if you are truly Christian, because a true Christian would forgive the criminal, not pass judgment, not demand a debt owed, not demand incarceration and allow the person to be judged after death by the Lord God. This is after all what the scriptures say. A moral and fair person will understand what you are saying, but being Christian or not has no bearing on it.

[mrs gates]

I have read many books about serial killers and have worked with inmates at all custody levels for six years. One thing that has become painstakingly clear over this time, is that most inmates use religion and the born-again philosophy as a scapegoat for actually admitting they have done wrong. They will us excuses such as not accepting Jesus made them commit the crimes they are accused of or because they have now accepted Jesus, they should be released or at least have their sentences reduced. The pattern is much too clear. They are using the system, whether it is religion or programming, for their own personal gain. This is not always the case, some actually do benefit, however, look at recidivism rates for prisons-they are upwards of 95% in some areas-does this show that they have actually accepted Jesus? I think not. If you just look at the patterns, do not feel sorry for these individuals. That is what they want you to do-I am all for fairness, but, were they fair to their victims?

[Family Snapshot]

The biggest cowards and bullies are always the most afraid when faced with an actual consequence. Is their conversion or belief sincere or not--who cares? It's a desperate attempt by weak souls to escape payment. And, in my opinion God washed his hands of them long ago. There is no forgiveness for evil.

[DigitalDreamKat]

I think they need to answer to themselves first, before they answer to anyone else, IMO.

Conversion is just an easy road for them, it's way of saying, I now do not need to take responsibility for my actions because I have placed that in the hands of God. I have confessed and I am repentant, can I carry on now please? Hmm, I don't think so.

My two cents

[Charon]

Yeah, some of these guys, Bezerkowitch and that rich young punk who had his family murdered alleged to have found God and still, the young punk through all his religious rambblings never once acknowledged the wrongs of his actions, and Bercowitz, in his "love letters" to his prison pen pall, never once mentioned God. This leaves me rather sceptical of their cincerity.

I'd like to point out that one of the two murderers crucified with Christ actualy bore witness to the Son of God and was promised Eternal Life there and then, so yes, we should not generalise and leave judgement to the Allmighty, who'll judge with just measure.

We should, however, be cautious of offenders who suddenly professes holiness. Respect it, yes, but be very very careful. I've been worked over by "Christians" SO many times it's actually funny. One should compare the actions of new and old Christians, old murderers and new believers and anyone else by to the life and the Words of the Christ of the Bible. That's the only true measure and anything deviating from that is a product of the father of lies. It's rather simple, realy.

[WarmNCozy]

Yeah, some of these guys, Bezerkowitch and that rich young punk who had his family murdered alleged to have found God and still, the young punk through all his religious rambblings never once acknowledged the wrongs of his actions, and Bercowitz, in his "love letters" to his prison pen pall, never once mentioned God. This leaves me rather sceptical of their cincerity.

I'd like to point out that one of the two murderers crucified with Christ actualy bore witness to the Son of God and was promised Eternal Life there and then, so yes, we should not generalise and leave judgement to the Allmighty, who'll judge with just measure.

We should, however, be cautious of offenders who suddenly professes holiness. Respect it, yes, but be very very careful. I've been worked over by "Christians" SO many times it's actually funny. One should compare the actions of new and old Christians, old murderers and new believers and anyone else by to the life and the Words of the Christ of the Bible. That's the only true measure and anything deviating from that is a product of the father of lies. It's rather simple, realy.

Jeffrey Dahmer was baptized in The Church of Christ while in prison:

http://www.holysmoke.org/hs00/dahmer.htm

:eek:

[apskad]

I know a psychoanalyst who came into my Criminal Justice class to talk to us. He interviewed Charles "Tex" Watson and David Berkowitz. He said that they're really nice and they talk to you like you've been best friends for years! He said that they are so mellow and nice.

I think it was either Roy Hazelwood or Bob Keppel who said that organized serial killers usually are very nice and charming. Unless you fit their victim profile.

[WarmNCozy]

I think it was either Roy Hazelwood or Bob Keppel who said that organized serial killers usually are very nice and charming. Unless you fit their victim profile.


Oh, Dear!
:chicken:

[diamond d]

There is a reason why people continually say of killers " he was the nicest, quietest person, I would have never suspected that..."

[Elemanzer]

I say if those people found God who are we to stop them from meeting him.

[kurro07]

I have read many books about serial killers and have worked with inmates at all custody levels for six years. One thing that has become painstakingly clear over this time, is that most inmates use religion and the born-again philosophy as a scapegoat for actually admitting they have done wrong. They will us excuses such as not accepting Jesus made them commit the crimes they are accused of or because they have now accepted Jesus, they should be released or at least have their sentences reduced. The pattern is much too clear. They are using the system, whether it is religion or programming, for their own personal gain. This is not always the case, some actually do benefit, however, look at recidivism rates for prisons-they are upwards of 95% in some areas-does this show that they have actually accepted Jesus? I think not. If you just look at the patterns, do not feel sorry for these individuals. That is what they want you to do-I am all for fairness, but, were they fair to their victims?

It's kind of like how some criminals always say they are sorry after they have been caught and you can't wonder if they are only saying that BECAUSE they got caught.

[sallynuts]

I say if those people found God who are we to stop them from meeting him.

:beer:

High Five......:biggrin:

[Portabella]

I am going to be blunt here, and apologize in advance if I hurt anyone's feelings. There are several different "church people" who come to the prison to visit and preach to the inmates. Some are organized religions and these people are cautious and honest about what they see and hear when they are with the inmates that attend. Then we have the religious "fanatics" that come in with their blinders on and see only the good in people as all is forgiven. These people have to be watched as they give contraband to inmates, glass angels, little dinosaurs, and writing utensils that are contraband. The inmates flock to the fanatic group because they realize that they are easily manipulated in the name of God or Jesus and that they feel we should not be judging them and they honestly feel they should not be locked up. These fanatics pose a danger to fellow inmates and the safety and security of officers as well. Without knowing it with their "forgive all" mentality they could potentially give them something that they could metamorphasize into a weapon and use to cut a throat. I have witnessed the clientelle of these church meetings and am amused by how hoodwinked they can get. I also realize the danger and shake down the crap out of all attending, including the church people going in and out. It on the most part a very dangerous farce. People need to wake up and stop smelling the freaking flowers and realize their is a heaping pile of fertilizer under them.....grrrrrrr.......

[maryhaze]

i'm wondering how quick people would be to see these losers as "forgiven" if they said they "found" Buddah or Allah or the Wiccan or Satanic religion, or Zeus or anything that wasn't christian? bottom line is they are cold-blooded killers who don't deserve sympathy or compassion or anything except a needle. JMO

[Sharon]

Its clear to me that it is in their best interests to find `God`!!!!

Come on, it gives them more sympathy, more attention, maybe more `rewards` or privelages.....and it is their number one best chance of getting out one day. Heck, even I would find god if I was stuck in prison and Im an aetheist!!!!!

Does anyone really think that these sociothaths dont know how to pretend and talk the talk......how do you think they got away with what they did for so long. They excell at doing what they believe is what society thinks is appropriate behaviour...well except for the killing which they excell at keeping a secret.

I love the comment about letting them meet God...that is brilliant, priceless!!!!

I really think that these `God` loving murderers would suddenly forget all about religion if they were out and say.....sharing a room in a deserted house far in the country with a victim of their choice!!!! ie religion is just another scam for them, something to pass the time if nothing else!!!

[lisaznola]

Serial Killers are great at wearing masks, of compartmentalizing their lives, and at lying. They are experts at being what they need to be to get away with what they want to do.
I agree with some of the things said above about them becoming born again so that the time in prison is easier. They can manipulate the system better. Some who have a chance of getting out one day use religion in that way. Others who won't ever get out (even if some have the possibility for parole, they know it will never happen) use religion as a way to get the guards, other inmates and the public to be more sympathetic. The general public by the by, in a way that other religious people write them, have books and magazines sent to them, and add money to their commisary funds.
For the few who have really 'found Christ', I compare that to death bed confessionals to priests from people who lived their whole life being jerks and usually denying any GOD. It is done in fear. They are in prison, and if they are a serial killer, especially a high profile one, they know the other prisoners are gunning for them. They are scared, not born again.
I am sorry if this makes some people mad, but I just can't see Christ coming for any of them.
I knew someone who spent a short time in prison with Berkowitz and he said that he was not always so high holy and even made jokes to certain people (not my friend, he wasn't close to Berkowitz) about the ministry.
Susan Atkins originally claimed that it was Charlie she saw in the vision in her cell (the one that brought her to Christ) and later changed her story to it being Christ, or an angle.
There are ALOT of people who find Christ in prison, but seem to lose his number once they are released. ;)

[Joseph Bell]

Hi. There have been great posts in this thread. This is what I think. If I'd killed anyone, let alone many, and I was facing the death penalty or life without parole, I'm sure I could find Jesus really quickly. The problem with these creatures is that they didn't find Jesus before they murdered.

Bye

[HeavenCries]

Serial Killers are great at wearing masks, of compartmentalizing their lives, and at lying.

AMEN! ;) Only they know how sincere they're being about being 'born again.' Whether it's an attempt to find sympathy, an attempt for parole, or stay on the good side of other inmates, it is really not up to us to decide if they are born again or not. Do I believe Berkowitz is being sincere? No, but it's not really up to me to say. However, I think their sentence should ride until their debt to society has been paid which, in most cases, means life. Good behavior or finding God shouldn't be reason to exonerate them for taking someone's life - behavior is replaceable, life is not.