Prostitutes murdered by Atlantic City serial killer [Archive]

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Levi

11-26-2006, 11:33 PM

I was watching "The Line Up" on Fox News, & I heard about this serial killer in Atlantic City. He has killed 4 prostitutes. One prostitute has contacted the police & told them he was a chubby middle aged man with white hair, who just wanted to "hold her" & told her about how he wanted to kill prostitutes. If she is telling the truth, this man shouldn't be that hard to catch. He seems to be the kind of idiot who will get drunk & rattle on about fantasies he has about prostitutes & fess up to killing some. Maybe telling locations of more bodies. He doesn't seem to be the kind of person to be careful about killing them. He just wants to have sex with prostitutes, & kill them afterwards because they are worthless in his mind & he just likes to kill them. This man seems to be an idiot who will get drunk & rattle on to anyone that would listen. He probably has no life, no children, or no wife. He shouldn't be that hard to catch.

Here is an article about the murders: http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3880182a12,00.html

Levi

11-26-2006, 11:42 PM

They were trying to figure out on Fox tonight why he was preying on prostitutes. I don't see the big mystery. They are simply easy targets. Have sex with them, then kill them & then dump them.

mtnmist

11-27-2006, 12:49 PM

Hi Levi -

I'm new here, live fairly near AC and this is my first post. :)

My view is different on this. What caught my interest is that these women were all faced east, toward the casinos/mean streets. Was that to testify they were killed to "save" them from that life or that they were punished for living that life? Perhaps someone knowledgable in the "motivation" area can respond? I''m sure it's also critical that three were blonde and all were barefoot. Or maybe I watch too much tv. lol

I doubt a killer who takes the time and trouble to commit such acts and then place/pose their bodies in that area would brag about his crimes while drunk. That's more likely a "wannabe" or someone who lives/kills vicariously through the acts of another.

Just my opinion. :)

mtnmist

Levi

11-27-2006, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by mtnmist
Hi Levi -

I'm new here, live fairly near AC and this is my first post. :)

My view is different on this. What caught my interest is that these women were all faced east, toward the casinos/mean streets. Was that to testify they were killed to "save" them from that life or that they were punished for living that life? Perhaps someone knowledgable in the "motivation" area can respond? I''m sure it's also critical that three were blonde and all were barefoot. Or maybe I watch too much tv. lol

I doubt a killer who takes the time and trouble to commit such acts and then place/pose their bodies in that area would brag about his crimes while drunk. That's more likely a "wannabe" or someone who lives/kills vicariously through the acts of another.

Just my opinion. :)

mtnmist
Hi mtnmist! Welcome! :D I am new here as well.
No offense, but I disagree with your theory. IMO that is a little too "Hollywood" for me. In most cases serial killers don't put the bodies in positions to symbolize something unless they are going to put the bodies in some weird sexual position. I think you are over analyzing it. JMO.

Levi

11-27-2006, 11:11 PM

mtnmist here is something you may want to read:

From "Killing For Sport" By Investigative Criminal Profiler Pat Brown.

Why do some serial killers pose their victims bodies?

"It makes a nice display & prolongs their control over the victim not only that, the control then carries over to the person who finds the body & the police who come to the crime scene. And even better, the serial killer knows the police will take pictures of the crime scene & his work will be forver documented. A good pose will go a long way...."

"There are actually not many serial killers who go to the trouble of posing their victims. Most just leave their victims where they lay when they are finished with them. They lose intrest in the body once they have finished killing the victim & go on their way. Some leave as quickly as possible so they aren't caught in the act, & others just leave because they're finished with their work & it's time to head home."

mtnmist

11-28-2006, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by Levi
mtnmist here is something you may want to read:

From "Killing For Sport" By Investigative Criminal Profiler Pat Brown.

Why do some serial killers pose their victims bodies?

"It makes a nice display & prolongs their control over the victim not only that, the control then carries over to the person who finds the body & the police who come to the crime scene. And even better, the serial killer knows the police will take pictures of the crime scene & his work will be forver documented. A good pose will go a long way...."

"There are actually not many serial killers who go to the trouble of posing their victims. Most just leave their victims where they lay when they are finished with them. They lose intrest in the body once they have finished killing the victim & go on their way. Some leave as quickly as possible so they aren't caught in the act, & others just leave because they're finished with their work & it's time to head home."

Thanks for the welcome, Levi. :) Yep, my opinion may be too Hollywood or overly analytical, but to date nothing in the case is definitive. Because at this point we're still unaware of motive, delusion or urge we can't know if the killer watches too much CSI or if there's something specific that dictated the sockless/shoeless/facing the casinos aspect. Today's paper says the third victim is identified and that the bodies were placed in the marsh weeks apart. And we know newspapers never get anything wrong. :D

mtnmist

Hoodwinked

11-28-2006, 05:21 PM

The barefoot thing is more significant to me than the position. It makes sense that you would carry the victims in the same manner and "line them up" as they were discarded.

I also don't see how we can assume that this is an umarried man without children. It is not uncommon for a serial killer of prostitutes to be married with a family. Some have even brought the killing home right under their family's noses.

Levi

11-28-2006, 05:51 PM

Hoodwinked

11-29-2006, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by Levi

[hood wink them
Nice one.

I wasn't knocking your theory about this particular case. Besides, can you trust a hooker?:D

boblablaugh

11-30-2006, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by Hoodwinked
The barefoot thing is more significant to me than the position. It makes sense that you would carry the victims in the same manner and "line them up" as they were discarded.

I also don't see how we can assume that this is an umarried man without children. It is not uncommon for a serial killer of prostitutes to be married with a family. Some have even brought the killing home right under their family's noses.

I think that the barefoot thing is the most significant fact out there. I don't even think that the hair color is much of a factor. I don't know why, but almost every news story that I have read is quite a bit off from what I think.

I think that the positioning is merely the way he disposed of them. Maybe there was something to his decision to face them east, but I don't think anyone will know that reason until he is caught and spells it out.

My armchair profile is that it is a male that is familiar with the lifestyle, possibly a drug user, but my gut tells me that it is not the person of interest in the cell phone picture that the news stories are speculating about. My feeling is that the person in the picture is just creepy. I think it would be too sloppy.
I think that the police should (and probably are) checking other leads, such as the motel manager, or people who work or live near by. I think that for someone to be able to commit four murders in a few weeks and to be able to return to the same dumping ground, they would have to blend in and not raise any suspicions. I would also start looking into people's backgrounds to see if they have any sexual hangups, especially a foot fetish. I am betting that a foot fetish is the biggest driving force behind this one.

Anyway, I would love to see more discussion here. Especially about this case, I am sort of shocked at the lack of news or discussions regarding this one! And the news and discussions I have seen all seem to be speculation that in my opinion is way off base.

mtnmist

11-30-2006, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by boblablaugh

I think that the barefoot thing is the most significant fact out there. I don't even think that the hair color is much of a factor. I don't know why, but almost every news story that I have read is quite a bit off from what I think.

I think that the positioning is merely the way he disposed of them. Maybe there was something to his decision to face them east, but I don't think anyone will know that reason until he is caught and spells it out.

My armchair profile is that it is a male that is familiar with the lifestyle, possibly a drug user, but my gut tells me that it is not the person of interest in the cell phone picture that the news stories are speculating about. My feeling is that the person in the picture is just creepy. I think it would be too sloppy.
I think that the police should (and probably are) checking other leads, such as the motel manager, or people who work or live near by. I think that for someone to be able to commit four murders in a few weeks and to be able to return to the same dumping ground, they would have to blend in and not raise any suspicions. I would also start looking into people's backgrounds to see if they have any sexual hangups, especially a foot fetish. I am betting that a foot fetish is the biggest driving force behind this one.

Anyway, I would love to see more discussion here. Especially about this case, I am sort of shocked at the lack of news or discussions regarding this one! And the news and discussions I have seen all seem to be speculation that in my opinion is way off base.

You may be right about the bare feet being the most significant aspect, but IMHO it's more a power thing than a foot fetish. If you take someone's shoes it's symbolic control over them. I don't know if I believe "3 out of 4 are blonde" is just coincidence, but, in truth, anything's possible until it's completely ruled out.

One of the local news articles quoted a lady that frequents/works that strip of motels as, "If you're there (at any of them), you're not up to anything good." Others said that strip is seedy and well known by addicts and working girls so police may already be familiar with or gathered a list of suspects. I don't go into AC on the Black Horse Pike so I'm not familiar with the area. But there's a strip just like that one on RT 30 (the road I use).

mtnmist

boblablaugh

11-30-2006, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by mtnmist

You may be right about the bare feet being the most significant aspect, but IMHO it's more a power thing than a foot fetish. If you take someone's shoes it's symbolic control over them.

I totally don't want to sound condescending so please don't take it that way, but I think that the killer taking the shoes is not control, I mean the whole process of doing what he did to them is control. I mean to me, anyone who rapes or kills for sexual gratification (which I think almost 100% of serial killers do) is doing it for control. But I think that is obvious. I feel strongly that if control was driving this killer, he may have mutilated, or hidden the victims better. I think that he took their footwear and left them barefoot because there is a fetish that is driving him.
Someone said in a previous post that there is a lot of Hollywood in a lot of the speculations and profiles. I don't think that there is much driving a predator like this other than instant gratification and an impulse to kill.
I think that Dennis Rader (BTK) was one of the more honest serial killers out there. He just did it because he liked to do it.
Gary Ridgeway was not killing prostitutes because he hated them, he was killing them because they were easy prey.

Now with this case, I think it is someone who is not middle class and a respectable member of the community like BTK, because his dumping ground was right in the area that the victims were from. If he were not comfortable with the area he would have stood out and would not have picked an area where he could be tracked back to. I think it is someone intimate with the area, and probably a step above the victims in social status and that is why I was thinking that Law enforcement should look at people like the motel manager, and others like that.
Especially digging into things like fetishes. I think if they found that the motel manager has a foot fetish, they could dig deeper and find out that he is the guy...

Again, I am just giving my armchair opinion, but I have seen a million times that people want to think that there is something absolutely evil and sinister behind something like this, and want to put meaning to every little detail, but most of them don't factor and when the truth emerges that it was just a guy who was the average guy and decided to strangle a bunch of prostitutes, people don't like the idea that there are people out there who do that.
But I think that most people who do not kill for profit or revenge do it for sex.

mtnmist

11-30-2006, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by boblablaugh

boblablaugh said:
<snip>
I totally don't want to sound condescending so please don't take it that way,<snip>
Levi said:
<snip>
Someone said in a previous post that there is a lot of Hollywood in a lot of the speculations and profiles.<snip>
boblablaugh said:
<snip>
Again, I am just giving my armchair opinion, but I have seen a million times that people want to think that there is something absolutely evil and sinister behind something like this, and want to put meaning to every little detail, but most of them don't factor and when the truth emerges that it was just a guy who was the average guy and decided to strangle a bunch of prostitutes, people don't like the idea that there are people out there who do that.
But I think that most people who do not kill for profit or revenge do it for sex.<snip>

It's not difficult to see why there's a lack of discussion here. Forgive me, and I accept that it's unintentional, but you do sound condescending. And the "Hollywood" remark? Levi welcomed me but commented that my theory was too "Hollywood" for him. So, since this is not a discussion board to actually bandy opinions/theories without having them belittled, I think I need to find a new crime message board. I was here for only a few days and looked forward to opinion exchange. :)

mtnmist

caringmom

12-01-2006, 05:57 PM

Tober

12-24-2006, 05:46 PM

What caught my interest is that these women were all faced east, toward the casinos/mean streets. Was that to testify they were killed to "save" them from that life or that they were punished for living that life? Perhaps someone knowledgable in the "motivation" area can respond?

If the offender intentionally placed the bodies with their heads facing east, and not coincidentally, the motivation behind such an action couldn't be inferred, as such an action would be performed for personal reasons exclusive to the offender. Short of the offender volunteering it or being asked once captured, such information couldn't be determined.

crimeq

01-29-2007, 04:11 PM

If the offender intentionally placed the bodies with their heads facing east, and not coincidentally, the motivation behind such an action couldn't be inferred, as such an action would be performed for personal reasons exclusive to the offender. Short of the offender volunteering it or being asked once captured, such information couldn't be determined.

The board game "Monopoly" is based on Atlantic City. Could the 4 prostitutes placed so carefully in the same way, pointing the same direction, have something to do with the killer buying "real estate" and putting markers on the "board"? That just popped into my mind. If they catch this guy, I'll be curious to see if he has killed elsewhere.

packy

02-24-2007, 11:41 AM

I realize we don't know if placing the bodies so that they face east is a deliberate action or now, but if it is would there be a religious aspect to it. The belief that one should sleep facing east. I think the Feng shui (sp) is in favor of sleeping toward the east too. I'd have to check

Orient means the east. To orient someone/something could be to organize to the east. Just a thought.

ssos

03-16-2007, 03:07 PM

It's not difficult to see why there's a lack of discussion here. Forgive me, and I accept that it's unintentional, but you do sound condescending. And the "Hollywood" remark? Levi welcomed me but commented that my theory was too "Hollywood" for him. So, since this is not a discussion board to actually bandy opinions/theories without having them belittled, I think I need to find a new crime message board. I was here for only a few days and looked forward to opinion exchange. :)

mtnmist

Cry some more damn, everyone has their own opinion. And im sure your no criminal profiler just like the rest of us? I need more info to state or belittle any opinions, but i would if i was presented that info