Would it bother you........ [Archive] - Crime Library Message Boards

want2retire

11-14-2006, 12:52 PM

.......to walk into a national auto repair shop and unknowingly provide your personal information and your car/house keys over to a registered sex offender? Would you send your mother, wife or daughter to a repair shop owned by a registered rapist? Would it bother you to know that this same registered rapist could be giving rides home or to work while their vehicles are repaired?

Do you think this national franchise company has a responsibility to not put you or anyone else in that position?

gemsbmw

11-14-2006, 12:54 PM

JConnolly

11-14-2006, 12:55 PM

gemsbmw

11-14-2006, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by gemsbmw

First off, I NEVER give them the key with my house key on it and second, do you check for sex offenders in you area. I do about twice a month and it shows me their home and work address.

http://sex-offender.vsp.virginia.gov/sor/servlet/SOR?id=X000095098

see, I would never get a muffler from here. :)

abby15

11-14-2006, 01:05 PM

Not Telling

11-14-2006, 01:06 PM

want2retire

11-14-2006, 01:07 PM

WOW......that was fast! Yes, the situation was serious and the problem is that although he is required to register as a violent sexual offender, because the crime happened before the registration requirements went into effect, his registeration is not available on the internet. He has to register with the local law enforcement, report his work and home address, and meet with them 4 times a year. He raped a young woman in the early 90's and Tennessee's On-Line registery only goes back to 1995. He's tried to have his conviction expunged and his registration requirements removed but the courts/governor denied his request.

So the situation remains..................no one would know and this man is a professional businessman who no one would suspect if they didn't know better.

BTW..........I'm already away from this company and there are currently no other such locations in the area.

Also, having been in this business for years, I can honestly say that probably an average of only 10% of our customers didn't hand over their entire keychains when brought their cars to us..........maybe it was because we were a national chain or just my honest face:D ..............but it's scarey when you think about it.

BorderCollieMom

11-14-2006, 01:14 PM

snipped

Originally posted by want2retire

no one would know and this man is a professional businessman who no one would suspect if they didn't know better.

He's not the ONLY "professional businessman" that is a sex offender.

They Are EVERYWHERE.....

gemsbmw

11-14-2006, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by BorderCollieMom
snipped

He's not the ONLY "professional businessman" that is a sex offender.

They Are EVERYWHERE.....

Dateline proves this...

Mandysmom

11-14-2006, 01:18 PM

Well want it seems like the state is keeping a pretty good eye on this guy and he is complying with the requirements.

I'd not give my house keys to anybody and if he is stupid enough to try and rape one of the customers, the personal info would help with the arrest/conviction.

I guess I'd rather he be working and trying to stay out of trouble than to be hanging out somewhere looking for victims.

Granted, he can get victims this way, but he'd be awful dumb to do so.

There are sex offenders everywhere, those we know about and those we don't. You just have to protect yourself as best you can.

abby15

11-14-2006, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by want2retire
WOW......that was fast! Yes, the situation was serious and the problem is that although he is required to register as a violent sexual offender, because the crime happened before the registration requirements went into effect, his registeration is not available on the internet. He has to register with the local law enforcement, report his work and home address, and meet with them 4 times a year. He raped a young woman in the early 90's and Tennessee's On-Line registery only goes back to 1995. He's tried to have his conviction expunged and his registration requirements removed but the courts/governor denied his request.

So the situation remains..................no one would know and this man is a professional businessman who no one would suspect if they didn't know better.

BTW..........I'm already away from this company and there are currently no other such locations in the area.

Also, having been in this business for years, I can honestly say that probably an average of only 10% of our customers didn't hand over their entire keychains when brought their cars to us..........maybe it was because we were a national chain or just my honest face:D ..............but it's scarey when you think about it.

If he has to register every year, why wouldn't he be online?
Where in TN? Used to live there, wonder if I ever gave him MY keys...

want2retire

11-14-2006, 01:21 PM

Not Telling

11-14-2006, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by want2retire
WOW......that was fast! Yes, the situation was serious and the problem is that although he is required to register as a violent sexual offender, because the crime happened before the registration requirements went into effect, his registeration is not available on the internet. He has to register with the local law enforcement, report his work and home address, and meet with them 4 times a year. He raped a young woman in the early 90's and Tennessee's On-Line registery only goes back to 1995. He's tried to have his conviction expunged and his registration requirements removed but the courts/governor denied his request.

So the situation remains..................no one would know and this man is a professional businessman who no one would suspect if they didn't know better.

BTW..........I'm already away from this company and there are currently no other such locations in the area.

Also, having been in this business for years, I can honestly say that probably an average of only 10% of our customers didn't hand over their entire keychains when brought their cars to us..........maybe it was because we were a national chain or just my honest face:D ..............but it's scarey when you think about it.

90% gave up their house keys?.... That is astounding!!

I hope you refused their house keys and gave them back with a quick explanation as to why it isn't a good idea to give them to a stranger... It's for your protection, also...

jmo

gemsbmw

11-14-2006, 01:31 PM

I would like to know how long you worked there and why so upset now? Did you get fired?

want2retire

11-14-2006, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by abby15

If he has to register every year, why wouldn't he be online?
Where in TN? Used to live there, wonder if I ever gave him MY keys...

Because the registry requirements dictate that only crimes committed after 1995 'qualify' for the PUBLIC registry. So even the private registry sites won't have him on it..............and given that loophole can you imagine how many others we don't know about?

It's ironic that because we have the registry requirements, suddenly the public feels 'safer' and although some information is better than none, we can't forget about the large percentage of those that have fallen between the cracks of the requirements.

East TN

gibbrishclown

11-14-2006, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Not Telling

90% gave up their house keys?.... That is astounding!!

I hope you refused their house keys and gave them back with a quick explanation as to why it isn't a good idea to give them to a stranger... It's for your protection, also...

jmo

Until I read this thread I never considered that my house key, my mother's house key and my friend's house key is on my chain, and I do give it over every time... learned something :chicken:

Not Telling

11-14-2006, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by abby15

If he has to register every year, why wouldn't he be online?
Where in TN? Used to live there, wonder if I ever gave him MY keys...

If you're leaving your car at the repair shop....don't you still need your house keys to get in when you get home?

sundaygirl

11-14-2006, 01:35 PM

Hello,
Very interesting question, hypothetical i hope?
Well in the uk which is where i am from, the only people who have to register with law emforcment are child molesters, I dont think adult rapists have to register, but i am unsure.
The only jobs that criminals have to say if they have a criminal record is when they want to work with children or the police .

In a perfect world it would be nice if we could ensure that the people we come into contact with are safe. But people have a right to privacy and the ability to live normal lives. although many sex offenders continue to commit crimes who is to say that a few stop and stay stopped.

For us all to have that kind of personal information on everyone would be an infringment on human rights .

but personally i think we do have the right to know. but its not going to happen.

but i agree with you.

sunday

abby15

11-14-2006, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by want2retire

Because the registry requirements dictate that only crimes committed after 1995 'qualify' for the PUBLIC registry. So even the private registry sites won't have him on it..............and given that loophole can you imagine how many others we don't know about?

It's ironic that because we have the registry requirements, suddenly the public feels 'safer' and although some information is better than none, we can't forget about the large percentage of those that have fallen between the cracks of the requirements.

East TN

ITA w/your frustration.

I personally would just warn my friends/family of this guy's situation.

Was it Knoxville by any chance?

Mandysmom

11-14-2006, 01:38 PM

abby15

11-14-2006, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by Not Telling

If you're leaving your car at the repair shop....don't you still need your house keys to get in when you get home?

Many times I would hang out, have lunch, or shop in the area.
Depends on what was being done.

want2retire

11-14-2006, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by gemsbmw
I would like to know how long you worked there and why so upset now? Did you get fired?

I didn't work there; he tried to buy our location and when that fell through he purchased a new franchise and it was only then that we discovered not only his criminal record but also that the company knew about it all along. The courts issued a TRO to keep him from opening his new location and then he came back and offered to buy our shop again.............by then we knew of his record and flat out refused. We were threatened by another franchise owner if word got out about what the corp had done because it would cause damage to the other franchise owners. But we don't believe this nut represents the vast majority of franchise owners who work hard and are just as disgusted by the lack of corporate ethics and integrity as we are.

cryostate

11-14-2006, 01:40 PM

I ALWAYS just take the car key off the ring at an auto shop of any type. Why give them all your keys?

want2retire

11-14-2006, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by abby15

ITA w/your frustration.

I personally would just warn my friends/family of this guy's situation.

Was it Knoxville by any chance?

No, the couple that own that one has been at it for years and years and are hard working, good people. It was to be built in Jefferson Count, the very same county where they recently caught the guy that raped and killed the Clemson, SC student. That arrest brought this issue to the forefront but it's so ironic that even if someone went looking for this guys record, it would be hard to find. And then, let the rumor mill start and the hard working franchise owners in the surrounding area would come under suspicion of being the 'one'.

For this and other reasons, we parted ways with this franchise and although we still own and operate our business, we will NOT be affiliated with this unethical company.

At this point, we have stopped him from opening but it's been a battle.

abby15

11-14-2006, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by want2retire

No, the couple that own that one has been at it for years and years and are hard working, good people. It was to be built in Jefferson Count, the very same county where they recently caught the guy that raped and killed the Clemson, SC student. That arrest brought this issue to the forefront but it's so ironic that even if someone went looking for this guys record, it would be hard to find. And then, let the rumor mill start and the hard working franchise owners in the surrounding area would come under suspicion of being the 'one'.

For this and other reasons, we parted ways with this franchise and although we still own and operate our business, we will NOT be affiliated with this unethical company.

At this point, we have stopped him from opening but it's been a battle.

I applaud your efforts, good job.

I also envy you. You live in one of the most beautiful places ever!

want2retire

11-14-2006, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by abby15

I applaud your efforts, good job.

I also envy you. You live in one of the most beautiful places ever!

Thanks and we DO LOVE this area. Between the mountains, lakes & the great weather, we are indeed fortunate.

LostinSpace

11-14-2006, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by Mandysmom
Well want it seems like the state is keeping a pretty good eye on this guy and he is complying with the requirements.

I'd not give my house keys to anybody and if he is stupid enough to try and rape one of the customers, the personal info would help with the arrest/conviction.

I guess I'd rather he be working and trying to stay out of trouble than to be hanging out somewhere looking for victims.

Granted, he can get victims this way, but he'd be awful dumb to do so.

There are sex offenders everywhere, those we know about and those we don't. You just have to protect yourself as best you can.

ITA. It is the "Unregistered" ones that I worry about more. I think those that are registered and following the terms of their parole and reporting in are less of a risk.

JMHO

Lost

Col.Smudge

11-14-2006, 01:55 PM

So it seems from the previous posts here that very few believe that someone serving out their jail time earns them a chance to go straight and try to lead a law abiding life?

The whole point of punishment is that by serving it, they get a chance to redeem themselves, to redirect their lives and make a go of going straight.

Serial sexual offenders clearly need to be followed and kept away from the vunerable sections of our society, but one-time offenders who have finished their sentence should be given the chance to re-enter society and live a life that enables them to support themselves and at least have some measure of independance.

If we hound them out of every job they get, we end up paying for their care and giving them more time and reason to see society as their enemy.

abby15

11-14-2006, 02:06 PM

Col.Smudge

11-14-2006, 02:11 PM

A simple question to consider would be, If I have a registered sexual offender living close to me, would I rather have them sitting at home with endless time on their hands to concentrate on their issues, or out working and having to concentrate on life?

I would think the answer is pretty straightforward. At least it is to me :)

Not Telling

11-14-2006, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by gibbrishclown

Until I read this thread I never considered that my house key, my mother's house key and my friend's house key is on my chain, and I do give it over every time... learned something :chicken:

Well...I'd say it's a good thing you read this thread, today, and hopefully the rest of the 90% out there will read it, too...

Wow! I just had no idea people give up their house keys along with their personal info. and their vehicles to strangers, so easily....

If I had known this... I wouldn't have posted "no one in their right mind would leave their keys with a stranger".... I apologize and hope I haven't offended anyone...

If I have, for me: :punch:

Here's another tip.... don't leave your garage door opener in the car when you leave it at the repair shop...

One more thing... I use a double ended keychain, both ends have rings on them for keys and it snaps together and apart in the middle... That way I can my house keys separate from my car keys...

want2retire

11-14-2006, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by Col.Smudge
So it seems from the previous posts here that very few believe that someone serving out their jail time earns them a chance to go straight and try to lead a law abiding life?

The whole point of punishment is that by serving it, they get a chance to redeem themselves, to redirect their lives and make a go of going straight.

Serial sexual offenders clearly need to be followed and kept away from the vunerable sections of our society, but one-time offenders who have finished their sentence should be given the chance to re-enter society and live a life that enables them to support themselves and at least have some measure of independance.

If we hound them out of every job they get, we end up paying for their care and giving them more time and reason to see society as their enemy.

I'm by no mans advocating some witch hunt with torches and such. However, the whole point of a registry is to provide information to people so that they can take whatever steps they feel appropriate to protect themselves and their loved ones. And to debate the need for such a registry over the civil rights of the convicted has long ended with the rapes and murders of courtless women and children as well as the supreme court upholding the laws.

What I am saying though, is when a reputable, national chain puts their mark on something or someone, they are literally vouching for their credibility. And when they do that with someone they already know has been convicted of such a violent crime as rape, they have actually created a situation whereby a potential victim would be made even less likely to question the character of this person. They can't have their cake and eat it too. You can't spend hundreds of millions of dollars towards creating the image of honesty, integrity and trustworthy and then step back and say, but we're not responsible if someone associates our "people" as someone who can be trusted and as such becomes a victim.

Not Telling

11-14-2006, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Mandysmom
Don't ever do that.

Take the ignition key off and hand it to them.

:seeya:

Valet parking is another time not to give all of your keys to a stranger..

Col.Smudge

11-14-2006, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by want2retire

I'm by no mans advocating some witch hunt with torches and such. However, the whole point of a registry is to provide information to people so that they can take whatever steps they feel appropriate to protect themselves and their loved ones. And to debate the need for such a registry over the civil rights of the convicted has long ended with the rapes and murders of courtless women and children as well as the supreme court upholding the laws.

What I am saying though, is when a reputable, national chain puts their mark on something or someone, they are literally vouching for their credibility. And when they do that with someone they already know has been convicted of such a violent crime as rape, they have actually created a situation whereby a potential victim would be made even less likely to question the character of this person. They can't have their cake and eat it too. You can't spend hundreds of millions of dollars towards creating the image of honesty, integrity and trustworthy and then step back and say, but we're not responsible if someone associates our "people" as someone who can be trusted and as such becomes a victim.

Unless you have evidence this man has commited a crime whilst operating under the auspices of this company, I don't see what you have to complain of?

Any person you deal with could be a serial killer, rapist, child abuser etc... there are no guarantees with anything.
If you use the warning the sexual offender registry gives you, you should be able to deal with these people safely and with appropriate caution.

If he is working honestly, not commiting crimes and the law knows about him, hounding him any further is simply vindictive and not based on any real facts.

want2retire

11-14-2006, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Col.Smudge

Unless you have evidence this man has commited a crime whilst operating under the auspices of this company, I don't see what you have to complain of?

Any person you deal with could be a serial killer, rapist, child abuser etc... there are no guarantees with anything.
If you use the warning the sexual offender registry gives you, you should be able to deal with these people safely and with appropriate caution.

If he is working honestly, not commiting crimes and the law knows about him, hounding him any further is simply vindictive and not based on any real facts.

I'm so glad that you first response is to provide the benefit of the doubt to this convicted rapist, rather than
1. His victim that suffered at his hands
2. Our community that has a right to protect & KNOW about his crime
3. Myself & my husband for not wanting the reputation of the business we have spent years and our entire savings building associated or confused with a man of this low character.

Also, have you not been reading? This man's crime falls through the cracks of the 'registration requirements'. The public would not have immediate access to his status as a convicted violent sex offender AND they would have even less reason to be cautious because he would be operating under the name/mark of a 30 year old national company with one of the most admired and honorable men as their spokesperson.

BTW........this man was NOT registered as required until WE found out about his conviction across state. The TBI thanked us for finding this error and he was only then contacted and forced to register. Also, this was NOT a statutory rape, or Romeo/Juliet situation. The victim was over the age of consent and the charge was never about consent...............it was RAPE, plain and simple.

flitterfuzz

11-14-2006, 02:39 PM

Col.Smudge

11-14-2006, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by want2retire

I'm so glad that you first response is to provide the benefit of the doubt to this convicted rapist, rather than
1. His victim that suffered at his hands
2. Our community that has a right to protect & KNOW about his crime
3. Myself & my husband for not wanting the reputation of the business we have spent years and our entire savings building associated or confused with a man of this low character.

Also, have you not been reading? This man's crime falls through the cracks of the 'registration requirements'. The public would not have immediate access to his status as a convicted violent sex offender AND they would have even less reason to be cautious because he would be operating under the name/mark of a 30 year old national company with one of the most admired and honorable men as their spokesperson.

BTW........this man was NOT registered as required until WE found out about his conviction across state. The TBI thanked us for finding this error and he was only then contacted and forced to register. Also, this was NOT a statutory rape, or Romeo/Juliet situation. The victim was over the age of consent and the charge was never about consent...............it was RAPE, plain and simple.

Let me ask again then... has he reoffended whilst working for this company. Did he serve the mandated punuishment he was given?

This isn't an issue about the victim... throwing that up is a smokescreen. Forcing this person out of a job in no way aids the victims or represents justice.

He commited a crime, he served the time, and now he has a job and is supporting himself and as far as I can tell from your posts following the rules of society.

The registration issue is between him and the legal system now, if he broke the rules they will surely punish him for it. Our legal system is thankfully pretty quick on punsihing Sexual offenders who step out of line.

BUT, if he hasn't broken any laws, they should allow him to work, pay for himself and live as normal a life as he can. His legally mandated punishment is OVER!

Col.Smudge

11-14-2006, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by flitterfuzz

Perhaps you would feel differently if you where a woman and knew how vulnerable we are when these animals are let loose, not to redeem themselves (who are we kidding here) but to wait for a chance to do it again. The fact that they check in or have a job does not make one iota of difference when they get the urge to attack.

Sex offenders should be kept behind bars indefinitely. IMO

Let me ask you the question I posed earlier... if you had someone on the sex crimes register, living near you, would you want them skulking at home all day with nothing to do but ponder their obssessions, all while we are paying their upkeep, OR have them out working, supporting themselves and being forced to deal with real life?

You cannot make them go away, they are out there like it or not, and making them work, be visible to the law and deal with real life is infinitely preferable to having them sit at home, living on welfare and stewing on their hatreds.

And if you made every sex crime punishable by LWP the only real effect you would see would that it would make more sense for them to kill every victim, no matter how small the crime, because the punishment is the same for it. Removing the witness then becomes the sensible thing to do.

want2retire

11-14-2006, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by Col.Smudge

Let me ask again then... has he reoffended whilst working for this company. Did he serve the mandated punuishment he was given?

This isn't an issue about the victim... throwing that up is a smokescreen. Forcing this person out of a job in no way aids the victims or represents justice.

He commited a crime, he served the time, and now he has a job and is supporting himself and as far as I can tell from your posts following the rules of society.

The registration issue is between him and the legal system now, if he broke the rules they will surely punish him for it. Our legal system is thankfully pretty quick on punsihing Sexual offenders who step out of line.

BUT, if he hasn't broken any laws, they should allow him to work, pay for himself and live as normal a life as he can. His legally mandated punishment is OVER!

Thanks for the questions because that alone answered my question to you. You obviously haven't/can't read what I have already posted.

This is not about a job! It is about purchasing a franchise and opening a business. No one is denying this man a 'job' and he is not without options that would continue to provide him his already substantial income.

Now since you haven't been able to comprehend what has been plainly written here, I suppose it would be too much to ask why you haven't figured out that everything isn't as 'black and white' as you would like to believe with him living his life follow the rules of society or he wouldn't have been stopped by the COURTS with the TRO and his request for release of the registrtion requirements wouldn't have been denied. Perhaps if you weren't so quick to provide him the benefit of the doubt, while minimizing his crime and insulting those that don't, you wouldn't have backed yourself into such an indefensible position of support for this rapist. :punch:

Mora 12

11-14-2006, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by Col.Smudge
So it seems from the previous posts here that very few believe that someone serving out their jail time earns them a chance to go straight and try to lead a law abiding life?

The whole point of punishment is that by serving it, they get a chance to redeem themselves, to redirect their lives and make a go of going straight.

Serial sexual offenders clearly need to be followed and kept away from the vunerable sections of our society, but one-time offenders who have finished their sentence should be given the chance to re-enter society and live a life that enables them to support themselves and at least have some measure of independance.

If we hound them out of every job they get, we end up paying for their care and giving them more time and reason to see society as their enemy. I agree and DISAGREE!!!!!

IMO - a first time criminal convicted of a NON-violent crime who has served his time - should be allowed to have the chance to lead a law abiding and decent life. and probably, most do.

HOWEVER - anyone that is convicted of a sexual crime (rape, or sexually abusing/harming a child, etc.) deserves NO second chance!!!!!
There are zillions of statistics to prove these type of people do NOT change - they will only continue their deviant criminal activities until they end up murdering someone and are either executed or locked up for the rest of their lives.

Ask yourself, Col., if you would be willing to invite a convicted Sex Offender of little boys over to your house for dinner with your wife and small son? I'm willing to bet the answer would be a loud NO!

Col.Smudge

11-14-2006, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by want2retire

Thanks for the questions because that alone answered my question to you. You obviously haven't/can't read what I have already posted.

This is not about a job! It is about purchasing a franchise and opening a business. No one is denying this man a 'job' and he is not without options that would continue to provide him his already substantial income.

Now since you haven't been able to comprehend what has been plainly written here, I suppose it would be too much to ask why you haven't figured out that everything isn't as 'black and white' as you would like to believe with him living his life follow the rules of society or he wouldn't have been stopped by the COURTS with the TRO and his request for release of the registrtion requirements wouldn't have been denied. Perhaps if you weren't so quick to provide him the benefit of the doubt, while minimizing his crime and insulting those that don't, you wouldn't have backed yourself into such an indefensible position of support for this rapist. :punch:

I have no problem with him being made to register, and none with a TRO, (key word there TEMPORARY).

What I do have a problem with is hounding a criminal after the sentence has been served, with no real factual basis to do so.

If he's commiting a crime he needs to be called to answer for it. If he isn't and he's just trying to make a living, its unfair to not allow him to do so.

I would prefer the legal system decide whether this franchise posed a risk to the public, rather than letting the public decide, because as is clearly evidenced here, no-one wants to give a sexual offender a second chance.

This man is not a serial sexual offender from what I have so far read. He commited a crime was caught, and served his punishment. Unless you have any proof to the contrary, you are simply dishing out your own form of justice, and a second punishment.

Col.Smudge

11-14-2006, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Mora 12
I agree and DISAGREE!!!!!

IMO - a first time criminal convicted of a NON-violent crime who has served his time - should be allowed to have the chance to lead a law abiding and decent life. and probably, most do.

HOWEVER - anyone that is convicted of a sexual crime (rape, or sexually abusing/harming a child, etc.) deserves NO second chance!!!!!
There are zillions of statistics to prove these type of people do NOT change - they will only continue their deviant criminal activities until they end up murdering someone and are either executed or locked up for the rest of their lives.

Ask yourself, Col., if you would be willing to invite a convicted Sex Offender of little boys over to your house for dinner with your wife and small son? I'm willing to bet the answer would be a loud NO!

Of course it would be no. Because given the knowledge I would be able to deal with the offender in a careful and cautios way.

If you are mandating a LWP for every sexual offender no matter what the crime, as I posted earlier the only effect will be to see the victims slaughtered.

Equally you cannot just have all these people out there with no place to live or work, thats just asking for trouble.

The only sensible option is to allow them back into society and keep watch on them and try to ensure they don't re-offend. Without a carrot all you have is a stick, and sticks just don't work on their own.

flitterfuzz

11-14-2006, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Col.Smudge

Let me ask you the question I posed earlier... if you had someone on the sex crimes register, living near you, would you want them skulking at home all day with nothing to do but ponder their obssessions, all while we are paying their upkeep, OR have them out working, supporting themselves and being forced to deal with real life?

You cannot make them go away, they are out there like it or not, and making them work, be visible to the law and deal with real life is infinitely preferable to having them sit at home, living on welfare and stewing on their hatreds.

And if you made every sex crime punishable by LWP the only real effect you would see would that it would make more sense for them to kill every victim, no matter how small the crime, because the punishment is the same for it. Removing the witness then becomes the sensible thing to do.

If they must have a job they should not be allowed to work where they encounter the general public, especially women. I would not even want a sex offender to have access to my car keys even.

I honestly do not think that a sex offender is thinking about what his sentence will be when he is attacking. Is the DNA evidence found any different in a living person than one that is not?

Remember we are talking about serial sex offenders here. I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes to keep them in jail. IMO.

want2retire

11-14-2006, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by Col.Smudge

I have no problem with him being made to register, and none with a TRO, (key word there TEMPORARY).

What I do have a problem with is hounding a criminal after the sentence has been served, with no real factual basis to do so.

If he's commiting a crime he needs to be called to answer for it. If he isn't and he's just trying to make a living, its unfair to not allow him to do so.

I would prefer the legal system decide whether this franchise posed a risk to the public, rather than letting the public decide, because as is clearly evidenced here, no-one wants to give a sexual offender a second chance.

This man is not a serial sexual offender from what I have so far read. He commited a crime was caught, and served his punishment. Unless you have any proof to the contrary, you are simply dishing out your own form of justice, and a second punishment.

:punch: Pride goeth before the Fall.

The 'temporary' TRO has been upheld, by the same 'legal system' you say you prefer decide this matter, on two additional court dates and it's been a YEAR since it was issued.

Smoof

11-14-2006, 03:21 PM

I believe the original premis of this thread was to question the wisdom of a convicted sex offender working with the public with access to their name, address & phone # and possibly house keys. IMO, it's not a good idea.

All of the col's rhetoric about re-habiltation aside, they shouldn't be permitted to work with the public in this manner.

Mora 12

11-14-2006, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by Col.Smudge

Of course it would be no. Because given the knowledge I would be able to deal with the offender in a careful and cautios way.

If you are mandating a LWP for every sexual offender no matter what the crime, as I posted earlier the only effect will be to see the victims slaughtered.

Equally you cannot just have all these people out there with no place to live or work, thats just asking for trouble.

The only sensible option is to allow them back into society and keep watch on them and try to ensure they don't re-offend. Without a carrot all you have is a stick, and sticks just don't work on their own. IMO - allowing these sexual predators to live and work among us is only asking for trouble and more innocent victims to suffer at their hands.

Read this article below and you will judge for yourselves how the majority of the States are beginning to pass laws that keep these sub-humans locked up and away from society.

Pay particular attention to the following statement in this article:
".....base rate for sexul recidivism for certain offenders is high enough that an actuarial prediction method can improve the accuracy of prediction when the definition of recidivism is in keeping with the sexual offender commitment laws....."
http://www.sexoffender.com/recidivism_sexoffenders.html

RebelAngel

11-14-2006, 03:28 PM

We have a RSO living on our street..His job shocked me as well...he works at a Portrait Studio.... Where I am positive he comes in contact with CHILDREN (his offense was regarding children)...Why is he allowed to work in an atmosphere where access to children is inevitable????
I am aware that they need jobs, however I think the job should be appropriate where offender is less likey to re offend.... I also do not feel the need to harrass said offender if he/she is not acting in prior manner...JMO
Track records speak for themselves though.....

Col.Smudge

11-14-2006, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by want2retire

:punch: Pride goeth before the Fall.

The 'temporary' TRO has been upheld, by the same 'legal system' you say you prefer decide this matter, on two additional court dates and it's been a YEAR since it was issued.

Then the law is working isn't it.

If there is good reason not to allow this person to own a franchise, the law is doing its part.

Exactly my point.

We don't need a vigilante type of law enforcement. The justice system works well.

And again, if he does get a franchise, you don't have to take your business there, its a free country and market forces will pretty soon decide whether this person can viably operate a franchise.

Col.Smudge

11-14-2006, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by Mora 12
IMO - allowing these sexual predators to live and work among us is only asking for trouble and more innocent victims to suffer at their hands.

Read this article below and you will judge for yourselves how the majority of the States are beginning to pass laws that keep these sub-humans locked up and away from society.

Pay particular attention to the following statement in this article:
".....base rate for sexul recidivism for certain offenders is high enough that an actuarial prediction method can improve the accuracy of prediction when the definition of recidivism is in keeping with the sexual offender commitment laws....."
http://www.sexoffender.com/recidivism_sexoffenders.html

The key words there are "Certain offenders" which to my mind would dictate that other types aren't so likely to reoffend. I have posted all along that serial sexual offenders should be closely monitored to minimise the chances of re-offending. But first time offenders should be allowed to work and re-enter society with a hope of living a normal life.

Mora 12

11-14-2006, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by flitterfuzz

If they must have a job they should not be allowed to work where they encounter the general public, especially women. I would not even want a sex offender to have access to my car keys even.

I honestly do not think that a sex offender is thinking about what his sentence will be when he is attacking. Is the DNA evidence found any different in a living person than one that is not?

Remember we are talking about serial sex offenders here. I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes to keep them in jail. IMO. I just got thru reading Ann Rule's Book about the Green River Killer - Gary Ridgeway - that LE suspected him of killing at least over 70 girls; convicted of 51 of these killings. He evaded capture and suspicion for over 20 years and everyone considered him to be "dumb, odd, quiet and a loyal, long term hard working employee" -BUT he knew enough not to leave any "evidence" at all his killing sites.

THE BKT killer is another example of a "respected" man who escaped detection for over 20 years and had a job that allowed him exposure to normal people living in society and look what he did!

How many others are out there that we just have not heard about yet or have been caught?

Col.Smudge

11-14-2006, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by Mora 12
I just got thru reading Ann Rule's Book about the Green River Killer - Gary Ridgeway - that LE suspected him of killing at least over 70 girls; convicted of 51 of these killings. He evaded capture and suspicion for over 20 years and everyone considered him to be "dumb, odd, quiet and a loyal, long term hard working employee" -BUT he knew enough not to leave any "evidence" at all his killing sites.

THE BKT killer is another example of a "respected" man who escaped detection for over 20 years and had a job that allowed him exposure to normal people living in society and look what he did!

How many others are out there that we just have not heard about yet or have been caught?

I agree, the person living next door to you could be a serial killer... we just have no way of knowing. The sex crimes register gives us a useful source of information to be able to be aware of and use caution when dealing with offenders. If we remove any incentive they have to bother registering and working and supporting themselves, we lose that small bit of information that could save lives.

Mora 12

11-14-2006, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by Col.Smudge

The key words there are "Certain offenders" which to my mind would dictate that other types aren't so likely to reoffend. I have posted all along that serial sexual offenders should be closely monitored to minimise the chances of re-offending. But first time offenders should be allowed to work and re-enter society with a hope of living a normal life. Sorry, Col. - but I still disagree.

IMO - anyone that "crosses over the line" of decency. etc. and commits a Sexual Crime - does NOT deserve any "second chance". They should have thought about being considered an outcast by MOST of society BEFORE they "crossed over the line" and committed their sexual crime.

My sympathy and compassion lies with the victims - NOT the predator! Fortunately, even the Legal System is also starting to recognize the dangers these sexual predators are and starting to pass laws to better protect us that live in society as law abiding citizens.

IMO - I don'tthink you are going to find many posters here, Col., that agree with your "logic" on this subject.

Mandysmom

11-14-2006, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by Mora 12
I just got thru reading Ann Rule's Book about the Green River Killer - Gary Ridgeway - that LE suspected him of killing at least over 70 girls; convicted of 51 of these killings. He evaded capture and suspicion for over 20 years and everyone considered him to be "dumb, odd, quiet and a loyal, long term hard working employee" -BUT he knew enough not to leave any "evidence" at all his killing sites.

THE BKT killer is another example of a "respected" man who escaped detection for over 20 years and had a job that allowed him exposure to normal people living in society and look what he did!

How many others are out there that we just have not heard about yet or have been caught? The BTK killer more than likely escaped suspicion because he blended into the community so well. Well respected church going deacon and all.

He didn't pick his victims from his job I don't think. He was a serial killer as was Ridgeway, not a rapist who has served his time.

Those who aren't under the umbrella of suspicion or the watchful eye of law enforcement are the ones who get away most of the time.

They know about this man, he's registered and apparently, hasn't re offended.

Col.Smudge

11-14-2006, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by Mora 12
Sorry, Col. - but I still disagree.

IMO - anyone that "crosses over the line" of decency. etc. and commits a Sexual Crime - does NOT deserve any "second chance". They should have thought about being considered an outcase by MOST of society BEFORE they "crossed over the line" and committed their sexual crime.

My sympathy and compassion lies with the victims - NOT the predator! Fortunately, even the Legal System is also starting to recognize the dangers these sexual predators are and starting to pass laws to better protect us that live in society as law abiding citizens.

IMO - I don'tthink you are going to find many posters here, Col., that agree with your "logic" on this subject.

Of course our sympathy lies with the victims, I don't want to minimise their pain and suffering at all.

However I see it as simple common sense that these people cannot be given LWP for a first offence unless its so grossly heinous that it merits it. And they cannot be marginalised and allowed to live unmonitored on the fringes of society, thats just going to increase the chances of them re-offending.

All we can really do is allow first time offenders to go back into society, allow them to work and support themselves while keeping as close a watch on them as is required.

Thats the only way to reduce the risk to the vunerable members of society.

Mora 12

11-14-2006, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by Col.Smudge

I agree, the person living next door to you could be a serial killer... we just have no way of knowing. The sex crimes register gives us a useful source of information to be able to be aware of and use caution when dealing with offenders. If we remove any incentive they have to bother registering and working and supporting themselves, we lose that small bit of information that could save lives. The problem with some of these State Sex Crime Registers is that only the Level 3 are being listed. These are the ones that were convicted of the HIGHEST FELONY rated sexual crimes and does NOT include the Level 1 or Level 2 sexual crimes, nor do they include names of Prior sex offenders before the Sex Crime Register was put together on that State's register. There are many, many loopholes for these types of criminals to hide in - unknown to the rest of us (like the OP pointed out).

New York State just started to add the Level 2 Sex Offenders to their Register and, hopefully, this will help the rest of us.

Smoof

11-14-2006, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by Col.Smudge

Of course our sympathy lies with the victims, I don't want to minimise their pain and suffering at all.

However I see it as simple common sense that these people cannot be given LWP for a first offence unless its so grossly heinous that it merits it. And they cannot be marginalised and allowed to live unmonitored on the fringes of society, thats just going to increase the chances of them re-offending.

All we can really do is allow first time offenders to go back into society, allow them to work and support themselves while keeping as close a watch on them as is required.

Thats the only way to reduce the risk to the vunerable members of society.

Col., the question raised was should they be put in a position where they're dealing with the public and having access to name, address, phone # & possibly house keys. You are the one who took this off track.

Col.Smudge

11-14-2006, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by Mora 12
The problem with some of these State Sex Crime Registers is that only the Level 3 are being listed. These are the ones that were convicted of the HIGHEST FELONY rated sexual crimes and does NOT include the Level 1 or Level 2 sexual crimes, nor do they include names of Prior sex offenders before the Sex Crime Register was put together on that State's register. There are many, many loopholes for these types of criminals to hide in - unknown to the rest of us (like the OP pointed out).

New York State just started to add the Level 2 Sex Offenders to their Register and, hopefully, this will help the rest of us.

Agreed, the register isn't perfect. It does help to be aware of the most dangerous offenders out there.

want2retire

11-14-2006, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Col.Smudge

Then the law is working isn't it.

If there is good reason not to allow this person to own a franchise, the law is doing its part.

Exactly my point.

We don't need a vigilante type of law enforcement. The justice system works well.

And again, if he does get a franchise, you don't have to take your business there, its a free country and market forces will pretty soon decide whether this person can viably operate a franchise.

:lol: The law is working? The 'law' didn't have a clue what this man's '92 conviction; The local 'law' didn't have a clue that he worked and owned a home in this area; the 'law' had no idea that he was required to register as a violent sexual offender. All of this in spite of the fact that it's everything happened right here in the same state.

The only thing that happened here was ME.

I found 'one' piece of evidence and sent in a formal request.
They (TBI) sent back that they had no record
I insisted they had to have, and provided them an offender number that I had come across.
SURPRISE! They found him!
Then and ONLY then did they find out what the crime was.
It was 'I' that investigated the registry requirements and his lack of status on it. It was 'I' that notified the local officials of this which is what prompted them to notify him about his failure to meet the requirements.
And best of all.............it was 'I' who put down the $20,000.00 in legal fees to obtain and keep the TRO.

The 'law' is powerless unless individuals stand up, speak out, and put their words into action. The reality is that the 'law' didn't work alone here.

I'm certainly glad my family and neighbors are not at the mercy of complacent individuals such as yourself that would rather give a sexual offender the benefit of the doubt and call those unwilling to do so 'vigilantes'.

BTW: Love your assumption that 'first time offenders' are just that. How naive! In reality it would be better labeled 'first time caught'.

Col.Smudge

11-14-2006, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Smoof

Col., the question raised was should they be put in a position where they're dealing with the public and having access to name, address, phone # & possibly house keys. You are the one who took this off track.

I would never give my house keys to anyone, regardless of what I knew about them. As to whether they should have jobs where they deal with the public, pretty much any job deals with other people. I know of very few jobs where one never has to deal with other people. Home Office maybe, or writer perhaps... but for everyone else, you have colleagues, bosses, members of the public who you have to interact with.

Mora 12

11-14-2006, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Mandysmom
The BTK killer more than likely escaped suspicion because he blended into the community so well. Well respected church going deacon and all.

He didn't pick his victims from his job I don't think. He was a serial killer as was Ridgeway, not a rapist who has served his time.

Those who aren't under the umbrella of suspicion or the watchful eye of law enforcement are the ones who get away most of the time.

They know about this man, he's registered and apparently, hasn't re offended. If my memory serves me correctly, BTK was a Dog Warden, and worked for the city as a Codes Officer - putting him in contact with various homeowners who he quickly learned were vulnerable and targeted them as victims. But, I think you are right; he didn't sexually assault them - he just killed them!

Gary Ridgeway targeted prostitutes and many were never even reported as missing, and his killings were done during the time that DNA was not as developed and used as it is today. He did sexually assault all of his victims - and even a few after they had been dead and buried by him!

flitterfuzz

11-14-2006, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Mora 12
I just got thru reading Ann Rule's Book about the Green River Killer - Gary Ridgeway - that LE suspected him of killing at least over 70 girls; convicted of 51 of these killings. He evaded capture and suspicion for over 20 years and everyone considered him to be "dumb, odd, quiet and a loyal, long term hard working employee" -BUT he knew enough not to leave any "evidence" at all his killing sites.

THE BKT killer is another example of a "respected" man who escaped detection for over 20 years and had a job that allowed him exposure to normal people living in society and look what he did!

How many others are out there that we just have not heard about yet or have been caught?

Exactly Mora, even if they are registered they are not keeping 24 hour surveillance on them. Once out of prison they just think of more clever ways to hide the crime.

There was a perfect example a few months ago when a convicted sex offender built a torture room in his cellar. Luckily, the two girls he kidnapped were able to get away into safety after he sexually attacked them. I am sorry I do not remember the details, but will do a search.

How many heinous crimes must they commit before they get locked up for good.

There are so many cases like this it’s heartbreaking.

Col.Smudge

11-14-2006, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by want2retire

:lol: The law is working? The 'law' didn't have a clue what this man's '92 conviction; The local 'law' didn't have a clue that he worked and owned a home in this area; the 'law' had no idea that he was required to register as a violent sexual offender. All of this in spite of the fact that it's everything happened right here in the same state.

The only thing that happened here was ME.

I found 'one' piece of evidence and sent in a formal request.
They (TBI) sent back that they had no record
I insisted they had to have, and provided them an offender number that I had come across.
SURPRISE! They found him!
Then and ONLY then did they find out what the crime was.
It was 'I' that investigated the registry requirements and his lack of status on it. It was 'I' that notified the local officials of this which is what prompted them to notify him about his failure to meet the requirements.
And best of all.............it was 'I' who put down the $20,000.00 in legal fees to obtain and keep the TRO.

The 'law' is powerless unless individuals stand up, speak out, and put their words into action. The reality is that the 'law' didn't work alone here.

I'm certainly glad my family and neighbors are not at the mercy of complacent individuals such as yourself that would rather give a sexual offender the benefit of the doubt and call those unwilling to do so 'vigilantes'.

To each their own. Justice must be tempered with a chance to make amends and become a useful member of society. If not then why bother with jail at all,? Just kill 'em all the first time they offend and be done with it!

Mora 12

11-14-2006, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by want2retire

: <snip>
The only thing that happened here was ME.
<snip>

The 'law' is powerless unless individuals stand up, speak out, and put their words into action. The reality is that the 'law' didn't work alone here.

I'm certainly glad my family and neighbors are not at the mercy of complacent individuals such as yourself that would rather give a sexual offender the benefit of the doubt and call those unwilling to do so 'vigilantes'.

BTW: Love your assumption that 'first time offenders' are just that. How naive! In reality it would be better labeled 'first time caught'. I, as well as many other Posters here, applaud you and only wish there were more like you .

IMO - the Lord will have a special place waiting for you:rose:

Smoof

11-14-2006, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by Col.Smudge

I would never give my house keys to anyone, regardless of what I knew about them. As to whether they should have jobs where they deal with the public, pretty much any job deals with other people. I know of very few jobs where one never has to deal with other people. Home Office maybe, or writer perhaps... but for everyone else, you have colleagues, bosses, members of the public who you have to interact with.

It's not a question of dealing with people, "IT'S A QUESTION OF HAVING ACCESS TO THEIR PERSONAL INFO". A cook or waiter in a restaurant deals with people, but doesn't get to see where they live.
You don't think it would be safer to have him working in the shop, than at the counter taking down personal info ? Especially since the customers are not aware of his background.

froggy

11-14-2006, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by Mandysmom
Don't ever do that.

Take the ignition key off and hand it to them.

:seeya:

That's what I have always done. For instance in an open air car park, where they have to move your car. I'd also take out all of my identifying material. Maybe I'm just naturally suspicious.

Mora 12

11-14-2006, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by flitterfuzz

Exactly Mora, even if they are registered they are not keeping 24 hour surveillance on them. Once out of prison they just think of more clever ways to hide the crime.

There was a perfect example a few months ago when a convicted sex offender built a torture room in his cellar. Luckily, the two girls he kidnapped were able to get away into safety after he sexually attacked them. I am sorry I do not remember the details, but will do a search.

How many heinous crimes must they commit before they get locked up for good.

There are so many cases like this it’s heartbreaking.

We had one here about 50 miles away that also had a "torture chamber"! He had it built under his garage; his wife (who recently had passed away) was a School Teacher, he had two sons that had no idea of their father's deviant sexual behavior, and he lived in this house that was located in a very high financially well to do neighborhood!!!!!!!!

He was in his mid-60s when caught. His mode of operation would be to pick up homeless girls on the streets; bring them back to his "torture chamber" and then release them back out on the streets after he was done with them - usually a few weeks.

He got caught when one of his latest victims called her sister and told her what happened and the sister called the police. He is now in jail for the rest of his life, but had been doing this for years and even his own family didn't know about it!!!!!!!!!

want2retire

11-14-2006, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by sundaygirl
Hello,
Very interesting question, hypothetical i hope?....................................

but i agree with you.

sunday

I'm sorry to say it isn't hypothetical but very real.

froggy

11-14-2006, 04:11 PM

:punch: Don't use the key, Stupid. Break the window!

Col.Smudge

11-14-2006, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by Smoof

It's not a question of dealing with people, "IT'S A QUESTION OF HAVING ACCESS TO THEIR PERSONAL INFO". A cook or waiter in a restaurant deals with people, but doesn't get to see where they live.
You don't think it would be safer to have him working in the shop, than at the counter taking down personal info ? Especially since the customers are not aware of his background.

Oh for goodness sake, you don't think he could just wander along the street and see you going into your house?

You don't need access to anything to find someones address. You can get anyones address by simply standing on the street and watching people go in and out of their homes.

want2retire

11-14-2006, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Mora 12
I, as well as many other Posters here, applaud you and only wish there were more like you .

IMO - the Lord will have a special place waiting for you:rose:

Thank you for your kind words but I don't want to appear that I got involved in this issue solely for because of the sex offender status of this individual. We became involved in a civil matter with this man and it was only during my own investigation of this man that I came across the info. However, once I did, I naively believed that this company that we had opened and operated a franchise with couldn't possibly know about this and once I brought it to their attention, they would do right by the public, their customers, and their other franchisees. How disappointed I was when they admitted they knew and didn't care. The typical business is business attitude so infuriated me. But what really set me off was thinking about how many kids from the two local colleges are sent to our shop by their parents, specifically because of our national chain's name. The fact that hardly a day goes by that my husband doesn't take one or two of our customers home or to work. How much customer information is in our shops computer and how readily our customer hand over their keys and any information we ask for. OMG, we've got daughters and granddaughters. This just sent my head spinning. I'm only telling you this so that you realize that I'm not preaching here, this wasn't some cause but rather something that presented itself.

Col.Smudge

11-14-2006, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by want2retire

Thank you for your kind words but I don't want to appear that I got involved in this issue solely for because of the sex offender status of this individual. We became involved in a civil matter with this man and it was only during my own investigation of this man that I came across the info. However, once I did, I naively believed that this company that we had opened and operated a franchise with couldn't possibly know about this and once I brought it to their attention, they would do right by the public, their customers, and their other franchisees. How disappointed I was when they admitted they knew and didn't care. The typical business is business attitude so infuriated me. But what really set me off was thinking about how many kids from the two local colleges are sent to our shop by their parents, specifically because of our national chain's name. The fact that hardly a day goes by that my husband doesn't take one or two of our customers home or to work. How much customer information is in our shops computer and how readily our customer hand over their keys and any information we ask for. OMG, we've got daughters and granddaughters. This just sent my head spinning. I'm only telling you this so that you realize that I'm not preaching here, this wasn't some cause but rather something that presented itself.

Not exactly the altruistic reasons I thought then. Its seems your motives were financial, and happening upon this info was I assume helpful to your case?

I suppose the ends justify the means.

froggy

11-14-2006, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by want2retire

Thank you for your kind words but I don't want to appear that I got involved in this issue solely for because of the sex offender status of this individual. We became involved in a civil matter with this man and it was only during my own investigation of this man that I came across the info. However, once I did, I naively believed that this company that we had opened and operated a franchise with couldn't possibly know about this and once I brought it to their attention, they would do right by the public, their customers, and their other franchisees. How disappointed I was when they admitted they knew and didn't care. The typical business is business attitude so infuriated me. But what really set me off was thinking about how many kids from the two local colleges are sent to our shop by their parents, specifically because of our national chain's name. The fact that hardly a day goes by that my husband doesn't take one or two of our customers home or to work. How much customer information is in our shops computer and how readily our customer hand over their keys and any information we ask for. OMG, we've got daughters and granddaughters. This just sent my head spinning. I'm only telling you this so that you realize that I'm not preaching here, this wasn't some cause but rather something that presented itself.

:eek: The company knew and didn't care? Well then, if something happens to someone as a result of their negligence they're in for it. :D Chewy on their boots. JMO.

Mora 12

11-14-2006, 04:27 PM

Let's see how many of us here can answer this question:

Have any of you ever met a person who you did NOT know was a convicted Sexual Predator?

Well, I did!!!!!!!!!

I was absolutely shocked when I discovered that "Frank" had been convicted of actual sexual intercourse of a 12 year old girl when he was 19 years old!!!!!! He had a smart lawyer; he got convicted as a Youthful Offender, did 10 years of Probation but not one day inside of a prison. A month after getting off Probation, he was then convicted of Sexual Reckless Endangerment - 1st Degree (involved a 14 year old girl) and this time, he served two years in prison; and is currently on parole until next year. He is now 30 years old - I can only wonder what his "future" will hold for him (and how many more innocent victims).

This "Frank" was brought into my home by someone that also wasn't aware of his background. However, my 16 year old grandaughter was present during the time this "Frank" was sitting at my table across from me having a cup of coffee. I was sitting directly across from him and fully believed he was looking directly at me while I was talking with him.

BUT - my 16 year old grandaughter was directly in back of me standing at the sink in my gallery kitchen and she noticed he was looking at HER - not me! After he left, she told me how "uncomfortable" she felt when he was staring at her which prompted me to research his name on the Internet - and found him listed as a Sexual Predator!!!!!!!!!!

Not once, did I ever suspect anything unusual about this Frank. In fact, I basically thought he was a nice young man. It just goes to show you how cunning these types of people can be!!!!!!!

froggy

11-14-2006, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Mora 12
Let's see how many of us here can answer this question:

Have any of you ever met a person who you did NOT know was a convicted Sexual Predator?

Well, I did!!!!!!!!!

I was absolutely shocked when I discovered that "Frank" had been convicted of actual sexual intercourse of a 12 year old girl when he was 19 years old!!!!!! He had a smart lawyer; he got convicted as a Youthful Offender, did 10 years of Probation but not one day inside of a prison. A month after getting off Probation, he was then convicted of Sexual Reckless Endangerment - 1st Degree (involved a 14 year old girl) and this time, he served two years in prison; and is currently on parole until next year. He is now 30 years old - I can only wonder what his "future" will hold for him (and how many more innocent victims).

This "Frank" was brought into my home by someone that also wasn't aware of his background. However, my 16 year old grandaughter was present during the time this "Frank" was sitting at my table across from me having a cup of coffee. I was sitting directly across from him and fully believed he was looking directly at me while I was talking with him.

BUT - my 16 year old grandaughter was directly in back of me standing at the sink in my gallery kitchen and she noticed he was looking at HER - not me! After he left, she told me how "uncomfortable" she felt when he was staring at her which prompted me to research his name on the Internet - and found him listed as a Sexual Predator!!!!!!!!!!

Not once, did I ever suspect anything unusual about this Frank. In fact, I basically thought he was a nice young man. It just goes to show you how cunning these types of people can be!!!!!!!

:( Mora, That's creepy. Coming from a Frog that's saying something. I'd have to have a shower afterward.

Iknowwhatudid

11-14-2006, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by abby15

If he has to register every year, why wouldn't he be online?
Where in TN? Used to live there, wonder if I ever gave him MY keys...

Yeah...where in TN? Not in the Knox area I hope.

gibbrishclown

11-14-2006, 04:36 PM

sounds like a great intuition on such a young woman... good for her...I'm glad also she was able to tell you what she felt and that you listened... seems there isn't enough of that still today...

jmo

want2retire

11-14-2006, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Col.Smudge

Not exactly the altruistic reasons I thought then. Its seems your motives were financial, and happening upon this info was I assume helpful to your case?

I suppose the ends justify the means.

What a sad little man you are! If what you now accuse me of were true, I'd hardly have volunteered the info now would I? But you are so desperate to validate the lame position you've taken on this, so once again let's be clear about YOUR motives.

Violent Rapist - Give the benefit of the Doubt!

Concerned Wife/Mother/Grandmother/Business Owner - FRY HER! She has financial motives!

:punch:

Mora 12

11-14-2006, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by froggy

:eek: The company knew and didn't care? Well then, if something happens to someone as a result of their negligence they're in for it. :D Chewy on their boots. JMO. You are so right, Froggy. Once the company was made aware they had this type of employee working for them, if he had been convicted of any future sexual crimes that could be traced back to being a customer - this Company would have been sued for Millions of Dollars and WON!!!!!!!!!

We had a similiar case here where a violent rapist was about to be release on parole and was coming back into the neighborhood where his wife's house was located which was right across from an elementary school!

This person was thinking of buying a house in this neighborhood and got on the internet trying to find tax, appraisal, etc. information about some of the houses. He acidentally came across a website that showed him this particular house was listed under the wife's name - with no mention of the husband's name(who was the convicted rapist). This person managed to find out all the details of the husband's criminal background and details of his conviction for the violent rape that involved a 16 year old girl and her boyfriend.

He printed all of this information out on a flyer and handed them out to various people in the neighborhood, posted them on the bulletin boards at local businesses, and news of his discovery spread like wildfire in our neighborhood.

The wife ended up selling her home at a loss PRIOR to the release of her husband and moving elsewhere (no one knows where she ended up).

There are still "good" people that are willing to take the time and effort to keep the rest of us safe.

crocdog

11-14-2006, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by want2retire
.......to walk into a national auto repair shop and unknowingly provide your personal information and your car/house keys over to a registered sex offender? Would you send your mother, wife or daughter to a repair shop owned by a registered rapist? Would it bother you to know that this same registered rapist could be giving rides home or to work while their vehicles are repaired?

Do you think this national franchise company has a responsibility to not put you or anyone else in that position?

Yes, it would bother me, in both of the cases you mentioned.

However, there are other people that pose just as serious threat as these people, and, WORSE, they are not required to be on any register.

These are the so called NON-VIOLENT criminals, such as identity theft thieves, or check forgers.

Boy, could they clean you out of your life savings if they had access to your personal information.

One thing you can do to protect yourself, is to only give the VALET KEY to your car when it is being repaired.

Never give any other keys such as keys to your home or, the key that opens your car trunk (or boot, if you live in the UK).

If you have an alarm system for your car, have it in Valet Mode. Do not give the Clicker to the Repair attendants.

Give as little personal information as possible, For instance, never, REPEAT, NEVER, give your Social Security number.

Hey, BE CAREFUL! It's a jungle out there.

Col.Smudge

11-14-2006, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by want2retire

What a sad little man you are! If what you now accuse me of were true, I'd hardly have volunteered the info now would I? But you are so desperate to validate the lame position you've taken on this, so once again let's be clear about YOUR motives.

Violent Rapist - Give the benefit of the Doubt!

Concerned Wife/Mother/Grandmother/Business Owner - FRY HER! She has financial motives!

:punch:

You yourself said you came across this info while involved in a civil case against him.

Violent rapist who has served his prison time and not re-offended.

Congratulations for pointing this guy out to the law. If he was failing to abide by his parole rules he needed to be called on it.

The fact that he doesn't appear to be in jail yet would seem to imply that he didn't break any serious ones. And the fact that he hasn't apparently re-offended would seem to imply he may actually be looking to make a living for himself.

Punish all sex offenders for their crimes, but when the punishment called for by the law is finished, let them have the chance to rehabilitate themselves and earn a living.

The mere fact that this person is a convicted criminal isn't a crime.

want2retire

11-14-2006, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by froggy

:eek: The company knew and didn't care? Well then, if something happens to someone as a result of their negligence they're in for it. :D Chewy on their boots. JMO.

I know! When this first came to the surface and we found out they didn't have an ethical problem with it we even tried to relay the very realistic financial implications of their decision. The reality is that should an employee of ANY of the over 900 franchise owners commit any such offense and the franchise owner get sued, it won't matter that they didn't know. They won't have the luxury of denial that Walmart and McDonalds had in their recent lawsuits involving this matter. Because the corporation has actually put in writing that they don't believe having a registered sex offender work or own a shop is a problem. How on earth would a franchise owner who had no way of knowing about a man's past crimes, ever defend itself now that their franchise corporation has put this position out there that knowing wouldn't have mattered anyway.

But by the time the basic business & financial issues this could have created were asked, they were in 'defense mode' and were too busy minimizing the issue and defending their decision for business logic to factor in.

At this point, it doesn't matter to us because we have severed our ties with this company. But although the risk to our business's reputation and name has been stopped, the fact that this has and can happen bothers us tremendously and as such I believe it just has to be brought out in the open. People HAVE to know.

BobbysGirl

11-14-2006, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by want2retire
.......to walk into a national auto repair shop and unknowingly provide your personal information and your car/house keys over to a registered sex offender?
re:
[Unknowingly, I have done it, never gave it a thought]

Would you send your mother, wife or daughter to a repair shop owned by a registered rapist?

re: [NO, if I knew]

Would it bother you to know that this same registered rapist could be giving rides home or to work while their vehicles are repaired?

re: [Of course, if I knew he/she was registered.]

Do you think this national franchise company has a responsibility to not put you or anyone else in that position?

re: [Franchise or not, it is their responsibility and mine too, to check into these things. Geeese, never gave it a thought. Guess I am dumb as a box of rocks].

They are everywhere!

BG

want2retire

11-14-2006, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by BobbysGirl

They are everywhere!

BG

Dumb? Hardly.......you're just like the vast majority of people, me included. You assume that because you wouldn't knowingly put someone in that position, others wouldn't either. We've been dealing with this for months and months and I still walk around with my mouth open in astonishment. All I can do is shake my head sometimes.

I am glad we're back on the question I asked and the reason for this thread. It's not about the offender at this point but rather the company's nonchalant attitude and lack of concern for their customers or franchise owners.

BobbysGirl

11-14-2006, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by want2retire

Dumb? Hardly.......you're just like the vast majority of people, me included. You assume that because you wouldn't knowingly put someone in that position, others wouldn't either. We've been dealing with this for months and months and I still walk around with my mouth open in astonishment. All I can do is shake my head sometimes.

I am glad we're back on the question I asked and the reason for this thread. It's not about the offender at this point but rather the company's nonchalant attitude and lack of concern for their customers or franchise owners.

I only replied to your OP. Have not read this thread, yet.

In all due respect, we(or many people) trust. Assume. Tricky word. You brought up a good topic. Thanks

BG

Pixie

11-14-2006, 05:53 PM

The arguement that this place is a place where the person can get names/addresses as being a big problem is silly to me. They could open up a phone book and get the same info. They could walk by your mailbox and steal your mail.. there are many ways.. Also.. all this on and on when.. of the crime he was convicted of.. was it a girlfriend? An ex? do you EVEN know? Why assume he is such a career criminal that he would use his job? I see a LOT of assumptions that are known to make A**e* of people. I do not feel this thread was made out of concern for the wellfare of others JMO!
They are NOT a child molester right?? Where do people get off spreading around this man's crime to one another? How ignorant. Bandwagons make me angry.
This person paid their dues. You cannot sit and judge that this person will re-offend. Talk about making someone shake their head. You would think we were talking about a child molestor and him working at a school.. now I see people are trying to erase the lines and mesh things so close there is none, just to suit themselves.
From reading the original post I was thinking it would have lead to the person re-offending to have made such an issue... but they had not.. So now not only do the convicted have to do their time required by law.. but it looks like busy bodies in the neighborhood want to lynch mob and keep picking the scab. Good going..
Also.. many many many men are in our prisons for rape who did not commit.. if this guy did it.. HE PAID HIS DUES. This thread was not about his victims as it does not look like the OP even knows what happened in the crime therefore those who do not show sympathy .. well it is because we do not know what happened even though many seem to ???
The mob mentality sickens me. JMO!

Mora 12

11-14-2006, 06:39 PM

Pixie - I beieve the OP mentioned this guy was a convicted RAPIST and convicted as a sexual offender - this is a big difference from being consider a "normal" type of criminal. Rape is Rape - irregardless if the victim was someone he knew.

sundaygirl

11-15-2006, 06:02 AM

Hi everyone,
I didnt see that there were two threads on this subject and joined the other one, didnt see all these messages..
Well I have just read through them all, there are so many sides to this. infringment on persons right the rights of the public to be kept safe. its a very worrying thought.
I personally would never give my house keys to anyone, and someone convicted of a serious criminal offense against women shouldnt really work in an environment that involves personal information.
But as someone has already said, if a criminal wants to find you he will, so the point is mute.

A question, in the usa are all sex offenders required by law to register, or only serious sex offenders. in the uk its only crimes against children.
could a scheme where they are all registered be viable and useful.

any thoughts on this matter.

sunday

want2retire

11-15-2006, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by Pixie
The arguement that this place is a place where the person can get names/addresses as being a big problem is silly to me. They could open up a phone book and get the same info. They could walk by your mailbox and steal your mail.. there are many ways.. Also.. all this on and on when.. of the crime he was convicted of.. was it a girlfriend? An ex? do you EVEN know? Why assume he is such a career criminal that he would use his job? I see a LOT of assumptions that are known to make A**e* of people. I do not feel this thread was made out of concern for the wellfare of others JMO!
They are NOT a child molester right?? Where do people get off spreading around this man's crime to one another? How ignorant. Bandwagons make me angry.
This person paid their dues. You cannot sit and judge that this person will re-offend. Talk about making someone shake their head. You would think we were talking about a child molestor and him working at a school.. now I see people are trying to erase the lines and mesh things so close there is none, just to suit themselves.
From reading the original post I was thinking it would have lead to the person re-offending to have made such an issue... but they had not.. So now not only do the convicted have to do their time required by law.. but it looks like busy bodies in the neighborhood want to lynch mob and keep picking the scab. Good going..
Also.. many many many men are in our prisons for rape who did not commit.. if this guy did it.. HE PAID HIS DUES. This thread was not about his victims as it does not look like the OP even knows what happened in the crime therefore those who do not show sympathy .. well it is because we do not know what happened even though many seem to ???
The mob mentality sickens me. JMO!

Nice try but I do infact know what happened because I not only have a copy of the arrest record and disposition sheet but have this man's own sworn testimony in deposition about it.

I would guarantee that this self-righteous 'forgiveness' would be very different if the victim; who will NEVER consider his dues paid; were your loved one. And I wonder would you be so forgiving if this rapist had YOUR information, would you take a ride home with him even if you knew his history?

Roxanne1932

11-15-2006, 12:58 PM

WTH? Death penalty then?

A_seeker

11-18-2006, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by Roxanne1932
WTH? Death penalty then?

Naaa, in cases of violent sexual offenders, I vote for "a little surgery" minus the anesthesia, then LWOP.

Pixie

11-21-2006, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by want2retire

Nice try but I do infact know what happened because I not only have a copy of the arrest record and disposition sheet but have this man's own sworn testimony in deposition about it.

I would guarantee that this self-righteous 'forgiveness' would be very different if the victim; who will NEVER consider his dues paid; were your loved one. And I wonder would you be so forgiving if this rapist had YOUR information, would you take a ride home with him even if you knew his history?

Sounds like a personal vendetta jmo

Athena

11-21-2006, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Not Telling

I can't believe anyone in their right mind would give their house keys to a stranger...

jmo

I agree but apparently reading some of the posts -- they did?? I even have a "valet" only key that I give to a parking attendant. The only thing they can do with this key is start the car and unlock/lock doors.

But I would never give my house keyes to someone I did not trust completely (family/close friend).

Star Diva

11-22-2006, 03:29 PM

First off - my housekey is not on the same ring with car keys. Second - I'm in the habit of locking glove compartments (and not providing a key) or removing everything including registration which provides personal information before leaving my car with anyone.

It is however, important that business owners be aware of the potential liability they could encounter by placing anyone convicted of a felony of this nature in a position of dealing with the public. I'd think most owners would know they assume total liability for the actions of their employee (whatever they are) which outcome could cost them their business. If not, then perhaps they don't deserve to be in business in the first place.

Just a thought. HAPPY STUFFING DAY ;-)

Looking Far

11-23-2006, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by LostinSpace

ITA. It is the "Unregistered" ones that I worry about more. I think those that are registered and following the terms of their parole and reporting in are less of a risk.

JMHO

Lost

As oftentimes happens, Capt., I agree with your opinion. I was wondering if there is ever a point in time when a criminal, particularly a first-time offender, pays his/her debt to society in the minds of some? Do we hound them forever?

On the matter of turning over keys, I agree, it is a very good reminder to take all other keys off the ring. This also includes those who valet park their cars - take all other keys off the ring, IMO.

Oops, me ... :punch: ... this was supposed to go with Capt. Smudge's post.

Hey Cap! :seeya:

Luke Davis

06-12-2007, 05:36 PM

Don't ever do that.

Take the ignition key off and hand it to them.

:seeya:I have a valet key, just for that.

Hey Paula

06-12-2007, 05:39 PM

I have a valet key, just for that.

I do too, on my last two vehicles, both VW Passats.

imanewsjunkie

06-15-2007, 09:57 AM

The sad truth is that you never know if the person on the other side of the counter has some dark side. So many killers function in society for years with no one knowing what is going on in their heads. I do believe that some people can be rehabilitated and should be given another chance, but some will never be able to be rehabilitated. For that reason, we all need to be careful of what positions we are putting ourselves in. Don't give more information about yourself than needed, don't give someone your house keys, don't be overly trusting.