Acting Innocent? Acting Guilty?

[limakey]

This thread is about how the same set of words or acts can be seen as points of guilt or innocence. This is just based on our gut feelings.

For example: Mr. Dunne felt that the moment he saw that Simpson was cuffed and didn't demand that the cuffs be taken off of him and didn't tell the cops to take the cuffs off of him and offer all of his money to find the killers, that he was guilty.

IMO, if Mr. Simpson was freaking out like Mr. Dunne thought he should have been, I would have said that he is guilty. An innocent man would have remained calm and cool and know that the cuffs would come off because this was a mistake.

[limakey]

Another example that I have read is that Mr. Simpson never asked which wife it was when told he she was killed. Well, IMO, had Mr. Simpson asked which wife, it would have been a dead give away that he was guilty. I would have said that you have been with this woman for over 17 years and you are asking which wife?

Also, in that same scene, Mr. Simpson did say something that pointed to his innocence---when Det. Phillips told him that he needed to calm down because his children were at the police station, he asked why were his kids there? To me, that means he didn't know where Nicole was killed--which had he been the killer, he would have known why the kids were there.

[limakey]

S-Diva,

I see your point, but then again, aren't we asking that all people have the same reaction to the same news?

You do make an excellent point, about what many people would be "normal" and that is another "sore point" with me on this case. Why wasn't any LE officer present when OJ got the news? Remember, the LAPD said they wanted to give him a personal notification because of the press, they wanted to make sure that if he did totally freak out, they wanted to be there and help him digest this horrific news and help him deal with his young children.

Again, IMO, had someone been there when he was told, there would be no controversy regarding the cut on his hand and his reaction to the murders. IMO.

[limakey]

S-Diva,

You bring up another great point! Det Phillips was very vague about the circumtances of her death--it was his job to be at this point. I have no problem with that.

However, don't you think it is a weak argument that because he didn't ask which wife, that is a sign of guilt? And I think it was after Simpson said, "what do you men she was killed?!" is when Phillips said that he needed to get a hold of himself for his kids.

While Vanatter and Lange have been bashed and trashed for their interview of him, they were vague for a reason. IMO, they ended the interview because he said nothing they could use and it was best to stop it before he gave any more information that would have helped them.

I believe I posted this to Kate awhile ago, but this is another prime example when all "guess work" could have been taken out of the equation if they had LE there when he was told or if the Chicago LE told him that Nicole was dead. IMO.

[Wukong]

Limakey,

Great topic and you make some good arguments. You will notice as this thread continues that every instance brought up that the poster feels may point to innocence or guilt will have good arguments that will slant the story one way or the other, depending on the poster's overall view of the case. Then good points will be made by the opposing side. Hopefully it doesn't turn ugly.

Here's my first go at it: I remember clearly when this whole case broke. I felt at the very beginning there was no way OJ is guilty. I was outraged when I saw them talking to him and he had the cuffs on. But, when he took off in that Bronco I felt immediately that this was not the actions of an innocent man. I admit that this may have skewed my thinking while watching the whole case unfold but I still tried to stay objective. I never could find anything during the trial that convinced me he was innocent.

Wukong

[Beebee]

I've said this before, but I think it fits on this thread.... OJ leaving for a golf match, making no attempt to find and get rid of evidence left on the property to me is consciousness of innocence. He had no idea what had been left (planted) on his property.

At 10:00 OJ made a call to his girlfriend. Was he thinking about Paula when he was also thinking about rage killing Nicole? I can't see it.

OJ was calm and happy at the recital. Despite the lying testimony of (I forget her name)-- the video was played in court.... he was calm and happy.

OJ was calm, hungry and tired when he went to McDonalds to eat-- Now, this is supposidly shortly before the kill. Does a person who is homicidal and raged have the desire to eat a burger? I don't think so.

Nicole was no angel. Let's face it, she wasn't. She slept with plenty, yet OJ never rage killed her. Why on June 12? Makes no sense. I don't see a motive.

OJ loves his kids. He would not kill Nicole and leave her for them to find. imo

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by socaldiva
Simpson not asking about the manner of Nicole's death reeks of guilt. He didn't ask if it was a car accident, or where or how she died. Even LE who routinely have the task make death notifications found it noteworthy. It is normal to ask questions, IF you don't already know the answer.


IIRC, Denise Brown was on the phone simultaneously as Lou Brown when the call came to the Browns home about Nicole's death. Denise who at the time unware of any marital problems between OJ and Nicole, could be heard yelling OJ did it, he finally killed her. This goes without saying, but she was at the recital a little more than 12 hours earlier hugging OJ!

[martin II]

limakey

oj's conversation with Det Lang---

"what do you men she was killed?!"

sound like a direct request from oj for ALL the info about micole/his ex wife being killed.

martin II

[limakey]

Wukong,

Thank you for your post! I hope it stays this way!

When I first heard of the murders, my first thought was OJ, where is OJ and I felt a sudden rush of emotion and I said to a friend, "see, money and fame don't make immune to a crime of passion."

Now, here is another way to look at the Bronco chase. Remember all the media reports, like the murder weapon being a military entrenching tool, then perhaps some sort of saber? I believe it was reported that a bloody mask was found plus a few more hundered details that were said to have come from "sources" inside the police department or some agency directly involved with the investigation.

He never would have made even into the Bronco because he would have laughed himself into a coma! I mean they weren't even close on some of the stuff---he knew the clothes would never be found, he knew the murder weapon would never be found, he knew who cleaned up after him, he heard all the reports that he was the only suspect, etc., etc. So there was no need for him to "run".

Now, flip that around if you can, think that OJ is innocent. (I know it might hurt, but if you read this quickly, the pain will go away!)

Or if it less painful, put yourself in OJ's place. You are being accused to killing your ex and her "friend". Cops say they have glove found on your property, they have found the murder weapon, they have witnesses on the plane to say that you were hiding your hands all the way to Chicago, they have found a sack of bloody clothes just blocks from your hotel in Chicago. Now, lets "fame" into the pictures. The press who has always been so good to you in the past, is now portraying as you an animal, that you had mistresses who went to the police because you paid them off millions for taking his beating, you even paid for the plastic surgery on that face that you broke.

We both have ex's, and while divorce is extremely painful, I would be shattered if I was accused of killing my ex. Granted, I wanted him to hurt, but I wanted the "broken toe" hurt. One that was really painful, impossible to cast and takes a long, long, long time to heal. If the cops were accusing me, and they said they found all this stuff and all these witnesses, I would think I might take a ride, just to figure out what was going on.

Also, as I have posted before, OJ knew why his marriage, both of his marriages broke up. And if what Cora says is true, that she warned him that Nicole was in serious trouble and that he needed to get her out of there, how was he suppose to feel? He didn't listen and now she is dead. Wouldn't any husband or wife feel guilty because they didn't listen.

BTW, I think if OJ was guilty of the murders, he would have killed himself.

[limakey]

S-Diva,

They may have only been married for 7 years but I think they had something like 17 years together.

In the spirit of this thread, lets just say that OJ did ask the questions you thought he, as an innocent man, would have asked.

He wanted all the details---isn't it fair to say that some people, perhaps even the police, would have turned it against him, saying that the only reason why he was asking these questions is because he wanted to know what they knew so he could plan his alibi? Isn't it also fair to say that for every cop who felt his not asking questions is a sure sign of his guilty, that there would be a cop ready to testify that in all the cases they were involved in, the husband was even too upset to even think about how they died, just the fact they were dead put them into the grief zone that they couldn't even be asked their own name at that point?

[alien]

Originally posted by Wukong
Limakey,


Here's my first go at it: I remember clearly when this whole case broke. I felt at the very beginning there was no way OJ is guilty. I was outraged when I saw them talking to him and he had the cuffs on. But, when he took off in that Bronco I felt immediately that this was not the actions of an innocent man. I admit that this may have skewed my thinking while watching the whole case unfold but I still tried to stay objective. I never could find anything during the trial that convinced me he was innocent.

Wukong

Wukong, that is what made me judge him guilty. I never thought of his guilt or innocence when I heard about Nicole's death, but that Bronco chase and what I learned during the trial convinced me of his guilt.

[alien]

Originally posted by Beebee
I've said this before, but I think it fits on this thread.... OJ leaving for a golf match, making no attempt to find and get rid of evidence left on the property to me is consciousness of innocence. He had no idea what had been left (planted) on his property.

At 10:00 OJ made a call to his girlfriend. Was he thinking about Paula when he was also thinking about rage killing Nicole? I can't see it.

OJ was calm and happy at the recital. Despite the lying testimony of (I forget her name)-- the video was played in court.... he was calm and happy.

OJ was calm, hungry and tired when he went to McDonalds to eat-- Now, this is supposidly shortly before the kill. Does a person who is homicidal and raged have the desire to eat a burger? I don't think so.


Nicole was no angel. Let's face it, she wasn't. She slept with plenty, yet OJ never rage killed her. Why on June 12? Makes no sense. I don't see a motive.

OJ loves his kids. He would not kill Nicole and leave her for them to find. imo

IMO, unless you have killed someone how can you know how a killer should or would act? I posted on another thread that IMO OJ was very selfish and was only thinking about himself at the time.

[alien]

Originally posted by limakey


BTW, I think if OJ was guilty of the murders, he would have killed himself.

Limakey, would you ever mind expounding on this statement and tell me why you feel that way.

[fbgweezer]

*Snip*Originally posted by limakey
.BTW, I think if OJ was guilty of the murders, he would have killed himself. When AC talked to the police from the Bronco he said something like, "I have OJ in the car and he's threatening to kill himself."

[limakey]

Alien,

The reason why I think he would have killed himself if he was the murderer was because if he took his own life, there would always be some question of his innocence. A dead man can't defend himself.

Also, I think if he was the murderer and even if the cops were wrong about a lot of the other stuff, the glove found behind his house was pretty damning. At that time, he had no idea of the questions that were to come about the glove, he had no way of knowing anything about MF at the time. He had no way of knowing about any of the other problems of evidence.

Also, it had to be shocking to see how the media turned on him (in his opinon), he had to be stunned about how many people who thought he was innocent changed their minds once they heard the 911 tape the cops released.

[limakey]

BeeBee and Martin,

IMO, I never would have sent my two younger, minor children to stay with my ex-in-laws, especially after at one of them already accused me of killing their mother. That just would not have happened in my world.

Another point----OJ got raked over the coals by the media because he Kato to find out what was going on at his house. OJ said that he wanted to know if the cops were tearing up his house, well if he is the killer, who cares about Rockingham---shouldn't have been more concerned on what was found at Bundy?

And I don't believe that OJ ever talked to Sydney or Justin before they went down to their grandmother's. I don't think Arnelle was ever asked if Sydney and/or Justin said anything to her about that night. What they heard or didn't hear.

IMO, if OJ was the killer, he had to have found out what Sydney and/or Justin saw or heard that night---then worry about his house being torn up.

[fbgweezer]

*Snip*Originally posted by limakey
IMO, I never would have sent my two younger, minor children to stay with my ex-in-laws, especially after at one of them already accused me of killing their mother.

. . .OJ got raked over the coals by the media because he Kato to find out what was going on at his house. OJ said that he wanted to know if the cops were tearing up his house, well if he is the killer, who cares about Rockingham---shouldn't have been more concerned on what was found at Bundy?

And I don't believe that OJ ever talked to Sydney or Justin before they went down to their grandmother's. I don't think Arnelle was ever asked if Sydney and/or Justin said anything to her about that night. What they heard or didn't hear.

Orenthal wasn't worried about his children -- he was more concerned about getting his golf bag from the airport. Besides, he didn't have to wonder about what his children saw or heard, he'd sent Arnelle and AC to get the kids. He would have known everything they said.

You should go back and re-read Orenthal's depositions/testimony/statements -- that was his house and his house only. Those were his things and his things only.

[limakey]

S-Diva,

From what Mr. Simpson has said in interviews, he was advised on how to handle this. That he was not to ask, it was up to his children to come to him. He was also warned that he had to address the issue right then and there, he couldn't put them off. Apparently he was telling the truth because even the expert talking heads could not disagree with this.

We also know that OJ wrote letters to all his children, we do not know what was in the those letters and therefore, we don't know what he "said" in those letters.

We also know that the Browns did not provide a safe mental health environment for the children. It had to be hell for all of them living in that house together.

From my personal experience, I believe that in today's world we do seek professional advice much quicker then in generations past, why? Because in so many cases, we can't possibly understand what our children are going through because we hadn't experienced the same. For example, divorce. I'm not a child of divorce, it took years for my son's pain to come out and I'm devasted to discover, that he has years and years left of pain on this.

I also believe there is a huge difference between being a single parent and a soul parent. IMO.

[fbgweezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by limakey
From what Mr. Simpson has said in interviews, he was advised on how to handle this. That he was not to ask, it was up to his children to come to him. He was also warned that he had to address the issue right then and there, he couldn't put them off. Apparently he was telling the truth because even the expert talking heads could not disagree with this.

We also know that OJ wrote letters to all his children, we do not know what was in the those letters and therefore, we don't know what he "said" in those letters.

We also know that the Browns did not provide a safe mental health environment for the children. It had to be hell for all of them living in that house together.

From my personal experience, I believe that in today's world we do seek professional advice much quicker then in generations past, why? Because in so many cases, we can't possibly understand what our children are going through because we hadn't experienced the same. For example, divorce. I'm not a child of divorce, it took years for my son's pain to come out and I'm devasted to discover, that he has years and years left of pain on this.

I also believe there is a huge difference between being a single parent and a soul parent. IMO. Seems odd that you wouldn't talk about it with your children -- Unless you make it an off limits subject. I would think he would have had at least a cursory conversation to reassure them that they were safe and there was nothing to be afraid of -- especially after writing them his goodby letters. I think the more telling thing about his children is that Sydney called the police and said her dad was abusing her -- wonder where that came from?

You are being very harsh on the Brown's -- even Orenthal said he knew they loved the children and that that was the best place for them if they couldn't be with him.

[Wukong]

I was cruising CTV and came across this post on the Notorious murders board. I was quite suprised and wondered if anyone here thinks 2L8 is guilty or innocent (In keeping with this thread topic).

2L8 4A D8
Senior Member

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: NANCY GRACELAND
Posts: 7181
This is the only way for me to...
participate in the OJ Simpson Board and Threads. They didn't have enough ammunition to ban me completely, so they did the next best thing ~ they banned me from the OJ Simpson Board and all Threads. I would be interested to know if this has been done to any other Posters.

If you didn't know this already (I didn't), please be advised that stating "JMO and MOO" in your Post doesn't protect you from being banned. I call a spade, a spade and some people just can't handle that.

I still have questions and comments re: the OJ Simpson case. I hope that Posters from the OJ Board will support me in my endeavor. If not, this Thread will die a slow death and at least I tried!

It's late, so I will post my questions and comments at a later time ~ if this Thread makes it to late Sunday morning that is! LOL!

JMO and MOO!! For whatever good that it does!

[Wukong]

Hey Socal,

What I meant by 2L8 being innocent or guilty had to do with why she was banned. In my opinion 2L8 was a good poster who was here before I was and I never saw her get out of line any more than anyone else here. I'm shocked she was banned.

Wukong

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by limakey
This thread is about how the same set of words or acts can be seen as points of guilt or innocence. This is just based on our gut feelings.

For example: Mr. Dunne felt that the moment he saw that Simpson was cuffed and didn't demand that the cuffs be taken off of him and didn't tell the cops to take the cuffs off of him and offer all of his money to find the killers, that he was guilty.

IMO, if Mr. Simpson was freaking out like Mr. Dunne thought he should have been, I would have said that he is guilty. An innocent man would have remained calm and cool and know that the cuffs would come off because this was a mistake.

One of the main behaviors that piqued my curiousity is how calm and collected OJ continued to be in both the criminal trial and the civil trial. If I was wrongly accused of butchering the mother of my children, I would feel rageful and I would let the world see it.

In my opinion, he was trying far too hard to give the idea that he was not capable of losing his temper, but rather always remained a calm man.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Wukong
Hey Socal,

What I meant by 2L8 being innocent or guilty had to do with why she was banned. In my opinion 2L8 was a good poster who was here before I was and I never saw her get out of line any more than anyone else here. I'm shocked she was banned.

Wukong

I agree. I can't say that I am suprised though, because she is brutally honest and while I applaud such I didn't figure that it would sit well with some.

I think she was an excellent poster, and I hope that she will reincarnate as we have seen so many do.

[alien]

Originally posted by Wukong
Hey Socal,

What I meant by 2L8 being innocent or guilty had to do with why she was banned. In my opinion 2L8 was a good poster who was here before I was and I never saw her get out of line any more than anyone else here. I'm shocked she was banned.

Wukong

I myself liked 2L8 and reading some of her posts. IMO, she did dis the moderator on some occasions so I wonder if that is what prompted her being banned. Correct me if I am wrong about it being 2L8 who made the comments.

I hope I don't get banned for this.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


One of the main behaviors that piqued my curiousity is how calm and collected OJ continued to be in both the criminal trial and the civil trial. If I was wrongly accused of butchering the mother of my children, I would feel rageful and I would let the world see it.

In my opinion, he was trying far too hard to give the idea that he was not capable of losing his temper, but rather always remained a calm man.

Hi Kate,

I don't think OJ was all that calm. He broke a glass in Chicago, then we had the wild Bronco ride. During the criminal trial, I saw different emotions on his face (JMO) and I didn't get the impression he was always calm.
I think he was using restraint because he had no choice. How many trials do you see people getting out of control? The ones that do usually come across as looking like lunatics, so I can see why defense attys advise certain behaviors.

[alien]

Originally posted by limakey
Alien,

The reason why I think he would have killed himself if he was the murderer was because if he took his own life, there would always be some question of his innocence. A dead man can't defend himself.

Also, I think if he was the murderer and even if the cops were wrong about a lot of the other stuff, the glove found behind his house was pretty damning. At that time, he had no idea of the questions that were to come about the glove, he had no way of knowing anything about MF at the time. He had no way of knowing about any of the other problems of evidence.

Also, it had to be shocking to see how the media turned on him (in his opinon), he had to be stunned about how many people who thought he was innocent changed their minds once they heard the 911 tape the cops released.

Thanks for the response Limakey.

If I can put my 2 cents in....IMO, OJ was the kind of person who probably never thought he would be judged guilty or would have people turn against him. He always thought that what he did was justified and probably thought he could turn the tide of public and media opinion back in his favor. I think the Bronco chase was his way of saying, look at poor me. People think that I am a murderer so if I kill myself because I can't deal with that and I want to be with Nicole, they will change their minds, feel sorry for me and know there is no way I could have killed Nicole.

Also, IMO was that a lot of the public probably never even thought OJ could be the killer because of how OJ presented himself to the public. That Bronco chase started changing people's minds (at least it did mine..not what the media was reporting) and then what came out in the criminal trial made them feel justified for believing OJ guilty. The civil trial was the icing on the cake for guilty.

I also don't think OJ had the guts to kill himself.

These are just my thoughts, Limakey. I am not dissing you for yours.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Beebee


Hi Kate,

I don't think OJ was all that calm. He broke a glass in Chicago, then we had the wild Bronco ride. During the criminal trial, I saw different emotions on his face (JMO) and I didn't get the impression he was always calm.
I think he was using restraint because he had no choice. How many trials do you see people getting out of control? The ones that do usually come across as looking like lunatics, so I can see why defense attys advise certain behaviors.

The "wild" Bronco chase? I hope you are kidding, there was nothing wild about it. He signed his suicide note with a smiley face for goodness sakes.

The only things the Bronco showed us is a man of guilty action, hence the disguise, passport, and cash.

I don't believe he broke a glass in Chicago as a result of being upset at the news that Nicole was killed. Since I believe that he already knew she was dead as a result of him killing her, it is my belief that he broke the glass purposefully in an attempt to validate his wounds on his hand.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


The "wild" Bronco chase? I hope you are kidding, there was nothing wild about it. He signed his suicide note with a smiley face for goodness sakes.

The only things the Bronco showed us is a man of guilty action, hence the disguise, passport, and cash.

I don't believe he broke a glass in Chicago as a result of being upset at the news that Nicole was killed. Since I believe that he already knew she was dead as a result of him killing her, it is my belief that he broke the glass purposefully in an attempt to validate his wounds on his hand.

I say "wild" because it happened at all. A calm person wouldn't be acting so irrationally, imo.

Since you believe OJ guilty, all of his actions are going to be suspect to you. JMO

I'll ask this question anyway-- Do you think calmly eating a burger (appetite) with a friend and calling his girlfriend around 10:00 pm is normal for somebody who is about to rage kill?

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Beebee


I say "wild" because it happened at all. A calm person wouldn't be acting so irrationally, imo.

Since you believe OJ guilty, all of his actions are going to be suspect to you. JMO

I'll ask this question anyway-- Do you think calmly eating a burger (appetite) with a friend and calling his girlfriend around 10:00 pm is normal for somebody who is about to rage kill?

I didn't find the Bronco chase to be irrational, but rather the calculated actions of a guilty man attempting to flee.

Your question contradicts itself, as a rage killing is something that occurs in the moment. I think he premeditated certain actions that evening, but the rage aspect occurred sometime during the act.

Calling his girlfriend around 10:00? Considering the fact that he had made numerous attempts to contact her, and the fact that phone records proved he had picked up the voice mail in which she dumped him, I would have to say that continuously attempting to contact the woman who dumped you does not show a calm and rational mind set.

[martin II]

kate

I think that anyone that attemps to give the Pula phone call as a excuse for oj to loose it and decide to commit murder is doing a hugh job of streatching. Paula made her call to oj because oj refused to allow her to interject herself into what was a family affair.The recital. He and Nicole had some kind of agreement not to bring their lovers to these kind of events that involved the children and oj told paula she could not go.

Remember this was not the first time Paula had become pissed with oj about Nicole or something else and dumped him so to speak.

Next OJ knew that Nicole had nothing to do with paula going off this time. So no reason to have ill feelings against Nicole because of Paula's call. As a matter fact oj not allowing paula to go to the recital indicates that oj was respecting nicoles wishes on this matter.

What is wrong with oj calling Paula 2-3 times trying to get her. This does not mean that because he did not get her he decides to just go kill Nicole. imo
,martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


The "wild" Bronco chase? I hope you are kidding, there was nothing wild about it. He signed his suicide note with a smiley face for goodness sakes.

The only things the Bronco showed us is a man of guilty action, hence the disguise, passport, and cash.

I don't believe he broke a glass in Chicago as a result of being upset at the news that Nicole was killed. Since I believe that he already knew she was dead as a result of him killing her, it is my belief that he broke the glass purposefully in an attempt to validate his wounds on his hand.

the wound found on his hand was made from jagged glass not a knife. according to the doctor.
martin II

[martin II]

I think the Bronco chase was his way of saying, look at poor me. People think that I am a murderer so if I kill myself because I can't deal with that and I want to be with Nicole, they will change their minds, feel sorry for me and know there is no way I could have killed Nicole.

alien
according to your post above, oj, if he killed himself would have cause to be concerned what the public would think of him after his death.
martin II




:confused:

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II
kate

I think that anyone that attemps to give the Pula phone call as a excuse for oj to loose it and decide to commit murder is doing a hugh job of streatching. Paula made her call to oj because oj refused to allow her to interject herself into what was a family affair.The recital. He and Nicole had some kind of agreement not to bring their lovers to these kind of events that involved the children and oj told paula she could not go.

Remember this was not the first time Paula had become pissed with oj about Nicole or something else and dumped him so to speak.

Next OJ knew that Nicole had nothing to do with paula going off this time. So no reason to have ill feelings against Nicole because of Paula's call. As a matter fact oj not allowing paula to go to the recital indicates that oj was respecting nicoles wishes on this matter.

What is wrong with oj calling Paula 2-3 times trying to get her. This does not mean that because he did not get her he decides to just go kill Nicole. imo
,martin II

How on earth did you translate my post into meaning that I believe that OJ lost it because of Paula's phone call or that I believe that OJ being unable to contact Paula means that he just "decides to just go kill Nicole"?

Astounding. Utterly and completely astounding.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II


the wound found on his hand was made from jagged glass not a knife. according to the doctor.
martin II

According to a doctor perhaps, but not according to all doctors.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II

alien
according to your post above, oj, if he killed himself would have cause to be concerned what the public would think of him after his death.
martin II
:confused:

OJ was obviously concerned with what the public would think of him after his death, hence the contents of his "suicide note".

It's really not confusing.

[martin II]

Originally posted by alien


I myself liked 2L8 and reading some of her posts. IMO, she did dis the moderator on some occasions so I wonder if that is what prompted her being banned. Correct me if I am wrong about it being 2L8 who made the comments.

I hope I don't get banned for this.

alien
the moderator warned all that baiting and stinging personal attacks would cause posters to be banned. Dissing the moderator, as you say , does not seem to be a good stratergy if one desires to remain on the thread.

martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


Hi Kate,

I don't think OJ was all that calm. He broke a glass in Chicago, then we had the wild Bronco ride. During the criminal trial, I saw different emotions on his face (JMO) and I didn't get the impression he was always calm.
I think he was using restraint because he had no choice. How many trials do you see people getting out of control? The ones that do usually come across as looking like lunatics, so I can see why defense attys advise certain behaviors. Petrocelli said that during the depositions, Orenthal would puff out his cheeks and make a blowing noise in an effort to control himself. LOL -- Big ole head and puffed out cheeks......I bet he looked like a cartoon. LOL

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Wukong
Hey Socal,

What I meant by 2L8 being innocent or guilty had to do with why she was banned. In my opinion 2L8 was a good poster who was here before I was and I never saw her get out of line any more than anyone else here. I'm shocked she was banned.

Wukong I thought 2L8 was an excellent poster. I'm sorry we've lost her. Maybe she can come back as Martin III or nettathirtysomething -- wouldn' that be a hoot? LOL

[martin II]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


OJ was obviously concerned with what the public would think of him after his death, hence the contents of his "suicide note".

It's really not confusing.

kate
it is my opinion that everything that oj did would be considered as an indicaiton of his guilt by some. The good news is that there was no suicide and he was found not guilty of charges brought against him in a court of law by a legal jury. imo
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I thought 2L8 was an excellent poster. I'm sorry we've lost her. Maybe she can come back as Martin III or nettathirtysomething -- wouldn' that be a hoot? LOL

fbg

you are seeking a response right.
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


According to a doctor perhaps, but not according to all doctors.


kate
what doctors testified that the cuts oj suffered in chicago were not from glass. Did not have jagged edges that would be from glass?
martin II

[fbgweezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
He and Nicole had some kind of agreement not to bring their lovers to these kind of events that involved the children and oj told paula she could not go. LOL -- He could threaten her with the IRS and all that entails (loss of all savings/monies/investment as well as not being able to afford to go anywhere else); He could tell her not to bring the kids to HIS house for HIS housekeeper to help with (although, friends/family stated that he was an absentee dad); He and Nicole were not speaking and the animosity between them had grown in the weeks just prior to the murders -- BUT, he kept the agreement not to bring a girlfriend to family stuff? Please. He didn't bring Paula because #1 -- she'd dumped him that morning and #2 -- he was obsessed with Nicole.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II



kate
what doctors testified that the cuts oj suffered in chicago were not from glass. Did not have jagged edges that would be from glass?
martin II His own doctor.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II


kate
it is my opinion that everything that oj did would be considered as an indicaiton of his guilt by some. The good news is that there was no suicide and he was found not guilty of charges brought against him in a court of law by a legal jury. imo
martin II

I suppose now is as good a time as any to point out that in a court of law, a jury does not have to believe in a defendent's innocence in order to render a "not guilty" verdict.

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II

*snip*
The good news is that there was no suicide and he was found not guilty of charges brought against him in a court of law by a legal jury. imo
martin II

Hi Martin,

That's not good news. That's why everyone was so upset. There was no justice for Nicole and Ron in a court of law in the criminal trial. OJ killed two people then got off of the charges because he had a great defense team and because of Mark Fuhrman being a racist.

imo

[Beebee]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel



Calling his girlfriend around 10:00? Considering the fact that he had made numerous attempts to contact her, and the fact that phone records proved he had picked up the voice mail in which she dumped him, I would have to say that continuously attempting to contact the woman who dumped you does not show a calm and rational mind set.

What it does show, imo, is a man thinking about Paula Barbieri (sp), not Nicole Brown.

JMO

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


What it does show, imo, is a man thinking about Paula Barbieri (sp), not Nicole Brown.

JMO During the timeframe he was calling Paula, he was talking about Nicole to Kato and Christian.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
During the timeframe he was calling Paula, he was talking about Nicole to Kato and Christian.

So?

He had two children with Nicole. She was not a non-issue. My point is if he was so consumed with jealous controlling homicidal rage for Nicole, what was he doing calling Paula??

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


So?

He had two children with Nicole. She was not a non-issue. My point is if he was so consumed with jealous controlling homicidal rage for Nicole, what was he doing calling Paula?? Ever heard of having your cake and eating it too? Orenthal was known to be a man-wh*re but most of all, he was OJ and I doubt his ego took very well to being dumped. Seems like no females wanted him on that day.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Beebee


So?

He had two children with Nicole. She was not a non-issue. My point is if he was so consumed with jealous controlling homicidal rage for Nicole, what was he doing calling Paula??

I think your point is made moot by Paula herself. In her book "The Other Woman" she shares in great detail about how OJ remained tied to and obsessed with Nicole all the while he was with Paula, and how greatly it hurt her to realize that Nicole would always be the woman that captured OJ's mind.

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Hi Martin,

That's not good news. That's why everyone was so upset. There was no justice for Nicole and Ron in a court of law in the criminal trial. OJ killed two people then got off of the charges because he had a great defense team and because of Mark Fuhrman being a racist.

imo

tazzy


"That's why everyone was so upset."

It was not everyone that was up set and for those that were upset with the verdict SO WHAT.

martin II


:shrug:

[Beebee]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


I think your point is made moot by Paula herself. In her book "The Other Woman" she shares in great detail about how OJ remained tied to and obsessed with Nicole all the while he was with Paula, and how greatly it hurt her to realize that Nicole would always be the woman that captured OJ's mind.

So Paula wasn't the one for OJ, and saw the opportunity to write a book.... doesn't surprise me, or change the fact that OJ had Paula on his mind that night-- not something you would expect from someone so obsessed with someone else they are homicidal, IMO.

[alien]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip*

You are being very harsh on the Brown's -- even Orenthal said he knew they loved the children and that that was the best place for them if they couldn't be with him.

I agree with this statement. And IMO, because they did love those children, they would not make things uncomfortable for them by saying ugly things about their Father, no matter how they felt about him.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Beebee


So Paula wasn't the one for OJ, and saw the opportunity to write a book.... doesn't surprise me, or change the fact that OJ had Paula on his mind that night-- not something you would expect from someone so obsessed with someone else they are homicidal, IMO.

I don't think we will end up agreeing on this one, but I can appreciate your thought process.

I think it's a matter of how you percieve OJ's guilt or innocence that is the deciding factor on how you view his behaviors.

However, I do not believe that Paula was the only one of OJ's mind that night. He had numerous women on his mind that night, as we know from his phone call to that model ... I have forgotten her name.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


So Paula wasn't the one for OJ, and saw the opportunity to write a book.... doesn't surprise me, or change the fact that OJ had Paula on his mind that night-- not something you would expect from someone so obsessed with someone else they are homicidal, IMO. IF Paula wasn't the one for him then why have her on his mind? Did you expect him capable of the domestic abuse?

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


tazzy


"That's why everyone was so upset."

It was not everyone that was up set and for those that were upset with the verdict SO WHAT.

martin II


:shrug:


And, I don't care what you think about it. I am telling you why everyone was upset. It was an injustice for Nicole and Ron.

:tongue:

[martin II]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


I think your point is made moot by Paula herself. In her book "The Other Woman" she shares in great detail about how OJ remained tied to and obsessed with Nicole all the while he was with Paula, and how greatly it hurt her to realize that Nicole would always be the woman that captured OJ's mind.


kate

Paula left the message and flew to Los Vegas and hooked up with some singer the same day. I think it was Michael Bolton. I am sure oj knew she was fooling around so it would be no surprise that paula left "ANOTHER" message and split. Surely not someting that would cause him to be angry with NICOLE because of some dumb stuff paula did again . That makes absolutely no sense unless one has a buring reasoN to tell ones self that it does. IMO

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by Beebee


So Paula wasn't the one for OJ, and saw the opportunity to write a book.... doesn't surprise me, or change the fact that OJ had Paula on his mind that night-- not something you would expect from someone so obsessed with someone else they are homicidal, IMO.

It wasn't about Paula being the one for OJ. We all know she wasn't. Even she knew she wasn't that's why she broke up. But, why did he lie about getting her "break up" message? If it wasn't a big deal then why did OJ lie? Because it WAS a big deal. He was alone and blamed Nicole. Nicole finally broke completely free and he was alone. How embarassing for him. A great Football legend alone and dumped. His ex-wife dissing him and going out. His much younger and hot ex-wife finally breaking free of his hold.

I do not think for one minute that the break up with Paula caused his rage. I think it was a combination of a lot of incidences.

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby



And, I don't care what you think about it. I am telling you why everyone was upset. It was an injustice for Nicole and Ron.

:tongue:

HI TAZZY

Who is this "EVERYONE" you talk about????
martin II

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


HI TAZZY

Who is this "EVERYONE" you talk about????
martin II

You already know who. Well, I know that doesn't include you. It includes all the people who were upset. That includes all races.

[martin II]

Tazzy. HI

Oj either had many side women and cheated on nicole with them or he was a lonley guy that no woman wanted.

WHICH WAS IT????

PS: Greta Stockdale ( sp) was quite a piece of work from what i saw when she took the stand.imo
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


You already know who. Well, I know that doesn't include you. It includes all the people who were upset. That includes all races.

TAZZY

Then i can assume you mean SOME people. right.
martin II

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II
Tazzy. HI

Oj either had many side women and cheated on nicole with them or he was a lonley guy that no woman wanted.

WHICH WAS IT????

PS: Greta Stockdale ( sp) was quite a piece of work from what i saw when she took the stand.imo
martin II

OJ said it himself..........

"For the first time in my life I am completely unattached"

He definately could have found someone else. I am not saying he couldn't. However, he couldn't that night.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II



kate

Paula left the message and flew to Los Vegas and hooked up with some singer the same day. I think it was Michael Bolton. I am sure oj knew she was fooling around so it would be no surprise that paula left "ANOTHER" message and split. Surely not someting that would cause him to be angry with NICOLE because of some dumb stuff paula did again . That makes absolutely no sense unless one has a buring reasoN to tell ones self that it does. IMO

How many times do I have to point out to you that I did not say that Paula's message caused him to be angry with Nicole and kill her? Apparently numerous times, since you refuse to acknowledge it thus far.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


How many times do I have to point out to you that I did not say that Paula's message caused him to be angry with Nicole and kill her? Apparently numerous times, since you refuse to acknowledge it thus far. Wonder if he's back to bumping his head again? It may have caused him some problems with him memory. Hmmmm.

[martin II]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


I don't think we will end up agreeing on this one, but I can appreciate your thought process.

I think it's a matter of how you percieve OJ's guilt or innocence that is the deciding factor on how you view his behaviors.

However, I do not believe that Paula was the only one of OJ's mind that night. He had numerous women on his mind that night, as we know from his phone call to that model ... I have forgotten her name.

With Greta Stockdale available, why be concerned about Paula.
That is a no brainer. imo
martin II

[Beebee]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


I don't think we will end up agreeing on this one, but I can appreciate your thought process.

I think it's a matter of how you percieve OJ's guilt or innocence that is the deciding factor on how you view his behaviors.

However, I do not believe that Paula was the only one of OJ's mind that night. He had numerous women on his mind that night, as we know from his phone call to that model ... I have forgotten her name.

Gretchen <something>

I think it was a 7:30 phone call-- around that time.

The main thing for me is he was not obsessing about Nicole in a homicidal rage. JMO (Why should he? Nothing special about that night at all)

[Beebee]

Originally posted by socaldiva


You don't understand that Orenthal was outraged at not being able to convince Nicole to want him again? It doesn't matter what else he had going on. He was rebuffed by Nicole AND Paula.

Maybe you should read Nicoles letter to OJ.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
IF Paula wasn't the one for him then why have her on his mind? Did you expect him capable of the domestic abuse?

fbg-

The few incidents of domestic abuse doesn't surprise me. They were both pretty assertive, imo-
IMO there was no pattern that was esculating to murder, in fact, just the opposite, imo.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II


With Greta Stockdale available, why be concerned about Paula.
That is a no brainer. imo
martin II

I cannot even bring myself to respond in detail to this one, as you have so obviously missed the boat on what I have been saying.

He obviously was concerned about Paula, enough to try repeatedly to contact her.

And that, my friend, is indeed a no brainer.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


It wasn't about Paula being the one for OJ. We all know she wasn't. Even she knew she wasn't that's why she broke up. But, why did he lie about getting her "break up" message? If it wasn't a big deal then why did OJ lie? Because it WAS a big deal. He was alone and blamed Nicole. Nicole finally broke completely free and he was alone. How embarassing for him. A great Football legend alone and dumped. His ex-wife dissing him and going out. His much younger and hot ex-wife finally breaking free of his hold.

I do not think for one minute that the break up with Paula caused his rage. I think it was a combination of a lot of incidences.

IMO OJ never had to worry about not having a woman. I don't agree with your assessment at all. JMO

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


OJ said it himself..........

"For the first time in my life I am completely unattached"

He definately could have found someone else. I am not saying he couldn't. However, he couldn't that night.

Tazzy. hi

He had already come to the conclusion that he and nicole would not get back togeather and he was ok with that. now he was able to get rid of the last of the regulars.Paula.

He had a plane to catch in two hours. it could be that he was lining Greta up for after the return trip from chicago. imo
martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


Gretchen <something>

I think it was a 7:30 phone call-- around that time.

The main thing for me is he was not obsessing about Nicole in a homicidal rage. JMO (Why should he? Nothing special about that night at all) There was something very special about that night -- Nicole had blown him off. She didn't save a seat for him and he wasn't invited to join the family for dinner. He'd made Paula mad by not taking her to the recital and then Nicole dissed him. Yep, he was mad and he was thinking.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


fbg-

The few incidents of domestic abuse doesn't surprise me. They were both pretty assertive, imo-
IMO there was no pattern that was esculating to murder, in fact, just the opposite, imo. It was years of domestic abuse BUT I'm most taken aback by your statement that you're not surprised. Why not? Or is this where Nicole gets blamed for 'Headquarters' beating her?

How you not think the situation between them was escalating? There was so much tension that they were not even speaking.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


IMO OJ never had to worry about not having a woman. I don't agree with your assessment at all. JMO I bet he does these days -- LOL. Fat, old and a double murderer.........he must really attract some honeys!

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


Tazzy. hi

He had already come to the conclusion that he and nicole would not get back togeather and he was ok with that. now he was able to get rid of the last of the regulars.Paula.

He had a plane to catch in two hours. it could be that he was lining Greta up for after the return trip from chicago. imo
martin II So Greta not getting together with him made for strike three. Right? He had to settle for a burger from Mickey D's with Kato......no wonder he got pizzed..........LOL

[martin II]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


I cannot even bring myself to respond in detail to this one, as you have so obviously missed the boat on what I have been saying.

He obviously was concerned about Paula, enough to try repeatedly to contact her.

And that, my friend, is indeed a no brainer.

kate
I do believe that YOU believe that what you posted is absolutely true.imo
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
So Greta not getting together with him made for strike three. Right? He had to settle for a burger from Mickey D's with Kato......no wonder he got pizzed..........LOL

fbg
He had a flight to catch in two hours to go to chicago in case you were not aware.
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I bet he does these days -- LOL. Fat, old and a double murderer.........he must really attract some honeys!

fbg

you do seem to keep up with oj's weight and looks. have you seen him lately.imo
martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg
He had a flight to catch in two hours to go to chicago in case you were not aware.
martin II either that or she said "Eeewwww"

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

you do seem to keep up with oj's weight and looks. have you seen him lately.imo
martin II Yep. Fat, old and a double murderer.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
There was something very special about that night -- Nicole had blown him off. She didn't save a seat for him and he wasn't invited to join the family for dinner. He'd made Paula mad by not taking her to the recital and then Nicole dissed him. Yep, he was mad and he was thinking.

fbg
cora fishman testified that at the recital oj was sittin 2-4 chairs from nicole on the same row. He went out to get the flowers at the break and just stood at the back of the room from then on.
He knew that he and nicole were finished so why get upset about a seat.imo
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
either that or she said "Eeewwww"

she came into court and testifief for the defense.
martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


she came into court and testifief for the defense.
martin II This is the same 'friend' who was sleeping around on her husband with the bag boy from the local grocery and wanted Nicole to lie and cover-up for her. This is the same 'friend' who 'visited' Orenthal's home after the trial when he was in town. Of course she testified for the defense.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg
cora fishman testified that at the recital oj was sittin 2-4 chairs from nicole on the same row. He went out to get the flowers at the break and just stood at the back of the room from then on.
He knew that he and nicole were finished so why get upset about a seat.imo
martin II The fact of the matter is, Nicole did not save a seat for Orenthal. Mr. Bigshot had to find his own. And the fuse burned.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
This is the same 'friend' who was sleeping around on her husband with the bag boy from the local grocery and wanted Nicole to lie and cover-up for her. This is the same 'friend' who 'visited' Orenthal's home after the trial when he was in town. Of course she testified for the defense.

fbg
you seem to be confused. i was talking about Greta testified for the defense. do you remember her.imo
martin II

[limakey]

Taz,

IMO, both G's and NG's feel the same on the subject of justice for Nicole and Ron. I don't think the G's have sole custody of this emotion.

[limakey]

S-Diva,

Sorry, used the wrong spelling of the word, it should have been there is a big difference between a single parent and a sole parent.

California appointed some type of guardian for Sydney and Justin. I know there is a term for it but I just can't think of it right now. I think her name was Marjorie Fuller. Any way, she said that the Browns had a shrine to Nicole and that their feelings regarding OJ Simpson could not be kept hidden.

I remember when the Browns were being slammed in the media for not attending the trial everyday. I remember Denise and Mrs. Brown addressing this issue, they said if was very hard coming home from a day in court and have to answer the kids' questions. Obviously, Sydney and Justin had their own opinons on their father's involvement with the murders.

[Wukong]

I don't believe that Paula breaking up with OJ and him not being able to contact her led to OJ making a decision to kill Nicole. I also don't believe that OJ was in a "Rage" all day as some here are suggesting. I think OJ was developing his plan for quite some time and thought he had it all planned out to make it look like a random act. Nicole was not killed in a rage by the way, a slit throat with a few defensive wounds is not indicative of a rage killing. Ron had more wounds because he put up a bigger fight and he screwed up OJ's plan. Many conspiracy theorists on this case point to this fact as evidence it was a hit.

Martin, the womans name is Gretchen Stockdale, not Greta, and OJ only left a message for her. You stated she was available which OJ could not have known if she was or not. Only OJ said he was available, another indication he got Paula's message. Again, I don't think Paula breaking up with him was the reason he killed Nicole but it was one of the many straws that finally broke his back.

My first post here was about the Bronco ride. What really made me suspicious of OJ was not only the ride but also the thoughts of suicide, the suicide note and especially OJ having brought along his passport, a disguise, over $10,000 in cash, several pairs of socks and underwear and other clothing for what he said was just a ride to Nicole's grave.

Wukong

[limakey]

I have always found it interesting what jurors have said about defendants. Like the ones they found guilty, said they showed no signs of remorse, but how do you show signs of remorse if you didn't do it?

Or, how do you show remorse for a person's death because you truly just missed them and are devasted by their death, but you are not showing, "I'm sorry I killed her remorse"?

I think for the most part that OJ was calm during both trials. I think he was very confident that the people who really mattered most to him knew he was not guilty.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
There was something very special about that night -- Nicole had blown him off. She didn't save a seat for him and he wasn't invited to join the family for dinner. He'd made Paula mad by not taking her to the recital and then Nicole dissed him. Yep, he was mad and he was thinking.

My gosh, that kind of insignificant drama happens in households all over the country every day...... it's not a big deal. You think that was the first time OJ didn't join his ex in-laws? You think OJ couldn't get women? You think OJ is the first guy to ever call two women in one day? lol You are the one attaching significance to it, in the hopes of looking for a motive, IMO. The way I see it, OJ Simpson had a pretty good life going, and was not the least bit interested in killing Nicole. Nicole, imo, was much more useful to OJ alive, than dead.... and I'm sorry because I don't want to sound cold... but for the purpose of this discussion, it's true!
She was the mother to his children. (I doubt he wanted to be a single father), she was his friend (they had a friendship, nobody can argue that), she was somebody he had an emotional history with and feelings of affection, and even love--
No motive for murder that I can see. None at all.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
It was years of domestic abuse BUT I'm most taken aback by your statement that you're not surprised. Why not? Or is this where Nicole gets blamed for 'Headquarters' beating her?

How you not think the situation between them was escalating? There was so much tension that they were not even speaking.

Nothing unusual for a divorced couple.
In many cases, the non-speaking goes away after a bit, especially if kids are involved. That seemed to be the pattern of OJ and Nicole. Pretty typical, imo.
No escalation. Just the opposite, imo.

When did Nicole write OJ that letter? Before or after the "domestic violence"?

[Beebee]

Originally posted by Wukong
I think OJ was developing his plan for quite some time and thought he had it all planned out to make it look like a random act. Nicole was not killed in a rage by the way, a slit throat


My first post here was about the Bronco ride. What really made me suspicious of OJ was not only the ride but also the thoughts of suicide, the suicide note and especially OJ having brought along his passport, a disguise, over $10,000 in cash, several pairs of socks and underwear and other clothing for what he said was just a ride to Nicole's grave. some snip

Wukong

Why do you think OJ wanted Nicole dead?
They were rage killed. It was overkill. What would be the reason for that? Sloppy and done with rage. If you think he premeditated this, then he sure as heck picked the worst way! There would have been numerous better ways.

Do you really wonder why he might have wanted to go away?
I don't.
By the way, $10,000 is nothing. A few socks and underwear? Sounds like a short trip to get away to me.

Thoughts of suicide? I can see that too. imo he wasn't equiped to handle the thoughts that anyone could think he could kill Nicole. He was an American hero. imo he was devastated for multiple reasons. I could see irrational suicidal thoughts, if nothing else, for attention.
Doesn't make him a killer, at all, imo.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by Beebee


My gosh, that kind of insignificant drama happens in households all over the country every day...... it's not a big deal. You think that was the first time OJ didn't join his ex in-laws? You think OJ couldn't get women? You think OJ is the first guy to ever call two women in one day? lol You are the one attaching significance to it, in the hopes of looking for a motive, IMO. The way I see it, OJ Simpson had a pretty good life going, and was not the least bit interested in killing Nicole. Nicole, imo, was much more useful to OJ alive, than dead.... and I'm sorry because I don't want to sound cold... but for the purpose of this discussion, it's true!
She was the mother to his children. (I doubt he wanted to be a single father), she was his friend (they had a friendship, nobody can argue that), she was somebody he had an emotional history with and feelings of affection, and even love--
No motive for murder that I can see. None at all.



Beebee, no one knows Simpson's motive and motive is not needed to convict someone in our court system, the facts and the evidence prove Simpson guilty.

Motive is only something we want to understand so we can make some kind of sense of why Simpson would do something like this.

I believe it was an accumulation of things that got to Simpson that day starting with his arguments with Paula the night before. Simpson started the day in a bad mood even in his golf game that morning. Simpson continually tried to get hold of Paula calling her many times during the day into the night.

The recital was more aggravation for Simpson. Nicole embarrassed him. She never spoke with him and ignored him in public. That was a major sin for Simpson. Simpson always put on his O.J. face in public and expected everyone to treat him accordingly. It was O.J. the celebrity who paid the bills and provided the life style for the entire family. He didn't show his personal problems in public. He acted like nothing was wrong. Just like he was shown acting in the video tape outside after the recital. Simpson, the head of his family was excluded from the family dinner for for his daughter. That pissed him off. Another embarrassment.

Simpson could never get hold of Paula and when he got home after the recital he learned she had broken up with him in a message. He had no chance to talk to her out of that, no chance to charm her back, he couldn't reach her. He continued to call her. His last call was made at 10:03 that night.

If you don't think that was such a big thing both Simpson and his defense attorneys disagree with you. Johnnie Cochran said to the criminal trial jury why should Simpson kill Nicole, he had Paula. Either Cochran didn't know about Paula's message or he outright lied.

Cochran in his closing statement told the jury,
"Let me just make a comment about Paula Barbieri. One of the most outrageous things I heard yesterday was this wild speculation that O.J. Simpson had some kind of falling out with Paula Barbieri on that Sunday."

It wasn't until Paula gave her deposition for the civil trial that the truth came out.

Simpson lied about it in the civil trial. Simpson's home telephone records show that someone made a call on Simpson's telephone to Simpson's message center and forwarded Paula's dear john message from Simpson car phone and listened to it. Twice. Simpson admits he was home at that time because Kaelin testified that he was but Simpson continued to deny he ever heard that message.

Dr. Lenore Walker the criminal defense domestic violence expert interviewed Simpson in jail. When she was disposed for the civil trial she was asked for the contemporaneous notes of her sessions with Simpson and she turned them over to the plaintiffs attorneys. In her notes she wrote that Simpson told her he call forwarded Paula's car phone message and some of the details in that message.

Yet Simpson continued to deny he ever heard it.

Normally nothing would have happened that night. Simpson would have taken his frustration, anger, and whatever with him to Chicago and it probably would have been over. Except for an unexpected telephone call.

Gigi Guarin was Simpson's live in housekeeper. One of her responsibilities was to always be in Simpson's house whenever he went out of town. Gigi had left for the weekend Friday night intending to return Sunday evening. She knew Simpson was taking a red eye flight that night. She normally helped Simpson get ready for his trips and that's what she planned to do that Sunday night. Gigi had gone to Knott's Berry Farm to celebrate Filipino Independence Day with her family and at 8:00 Sunday night she called Simpson to ask permission to come back Monday morning. Simpson agreed.

Simpson never told anyone about that telephone call. Not Kaelin and not his home security company Westec. Simpson would be alone in his house until he had to leave for the airport about three hours later. That's called opportunity. Simpson changed his clothing putting on a dark colored sweat suit and the rest is history.

bobaugust

[limakey]

There is one thing about Paula that really surprises me that people continue to overlook---the main reason why she "wanted" to break up with OJ. She couldn't stand the fact that when OJ and Nicole had to attend a function with their children, no "dates" were allowed. IMO, she had to finally face a very hard thing, that while couples may divorce, but when there are young children involved, there are couples who insist on certain occassions to maintain a decent relationship for their children's sake. Paula was mad because OJ would not take her to Sydney's dance. Paula was not above getting her shots in, like sending the Christmas gift to the Jenners' house for OJ, knowing that Nicole would be there. And wasn't it at the same party where one of Nicole's friends were there?

Also, without doubt, OJ was a player when it came to women. He is no different then a lot of rich and famous men (some may even say that fame and fortune has nothing to do with it, but a man has got to be a man and it isn't natural to only sleep with one woman for the rest of your life!) However, OJ had long lasting relationships with his mistresses. Even after they found out that he had other mistresses then them, they still went along for the ride. I don't remember any of them coming forward and trashing him.

I don't think that OJ had any problem getting woman and if you look at the long history he has had with the same ones, then you know that these women have broken up with him before or he has broken up with them but when it came right down to it, he felt pretty secure in this area.

I don't see any woman being the "trigger" that caused OJ to kill Nicole. I think whatever Paula had said to OJ on that message was nothing that he hadn't heard before and knew that he would it hear it again and again.

[limakey]

Wukong,

One of the reasons why the DA's didn't introduce the Bronco chase was because everything that you mentioned in your post, the defense had tons of evidence to prove that both OJ and Nicole were known to carry large sums of cash on them. They both always had their passports with them because at least OJ always wanted to be able to jump on a plane and go to Mexico or where ever.

Also, don't forget, the letters that OJ wrote to family and friends and the tapes we haven't heard.

The only thing that really makes me wonder about the Bronco chase is when he said, "I'm the only one that deserves to be hurt."

How would any of us react to being accused of murder? Then to hear the press say how women were coming forward because OJ beat them so bad they had to have their face rebuilt.

IMO, I think it would be almost impossible to grasp what it would be like to be in the middle of this nightmare and watch TV and hear all this stuff that you have no idea where it is coming from.

How would any of us react? However, Wukong, most of the Talking Heads still shake their head over why this wasn't entered into evidence.

As for the disguise, the only one that disputed OJ's story was Faye and she made it impossible for her to be called. IMO.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by limakey

I don't think that OJ had any problem getting woman and if you look at the long history he has had with the same ones, then you know that these women have broken up with him before or he has broken up with them but when it came right down to it, he felt pretty secure in this area.

I don't see any woman being the "trigger" that caused OJ to kill Nicole. I think whatever Paula had said to OJ on that message was nothing that he hadn't heard before and knew that he would it hear it again and again.


limakey, Simpson evidently contradicts your opinion with all the telephone calls he made to Paula through out that day and into the night. Even after he heard her message.

Johnnie Cochran evidently contradicts your opinion with the comments he made about this to the criminal trial jury.

Simpson never had a problem getting women or leaving women as long as it was him doing the leaving.

Paula was not the "trigger" that caused Simpson to kill Nicole, only one of many things that caused him to come to that decision. The trigger was Gigi's telephone call.

bobaugust

[Beebee]

Bob,

You wrote:

Gigi had gone to Knott's Berry Farm to celebrate Filipino Independence Day with her family and at 8:00 Sunday night she called Simpson to ask permission to come back Monday morning. Simpson agreed.


What if Gigi hadn't called?? You think Nicole would be alive?

My point is it was Gigi who made the request not to be there, it wasn't OJ trying to keep her out of the house.

So much for premeditation.

And by the way-- unless somebody is a serial killer or psycho, I do need to see some kind of motive. But that's just me. And in this case..... there was no motive what-so-ever for OJ to kill Nicole. imo

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by Beebee


IMO OJ never had to worry about not having a woman. I don't agree with your assessment at all. JMO

Hi Beebee,

Then how do you explain OJ himself stating that he was completely unattached for the first time in his life? Why was he continuing to call Paula if he had so many women? OJ could always get a piece but he couldn't always get love. He didn't love Paula, he loved Nicole.

I am not suprised that you don't agree with my assessment. But, why?

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


Tazzy. hi

He had already come to the conclusion that he and nicole would not get back togeather and he was ok with that. now he was able to get rid of the last of the regulars.Paula.

He had a plane to catch in two hours. it could be that he was lining Greta up for after the return trip from chicago. imo
martin II

Hi Martin,

Then why was he calling her at 10:04? If she was nothing then why did he try to call her all day? If it didn't matter then WHY?

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by limakey
Taz,

IMO, both G's and NG's feel the same on the subject of justice for Nicole and Ron. I don't think the G's have sole custody of this emotion.

I never said that the G's have sole custody of this emotion. I know that most NG's feel bad for Nicole and Ron (and their families).

:shrug:

I was talking to Martin. And, he said "who cares".

:punch:

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by Beebee


My gosh, that kind of insignificant drama happens in households all over the country every day...... it's not a big deal. You think that was the first time OJ didn't join his ex in-laws? You think OJ couldn't get women? You think OJ is the first guy to ever call two women in one day? lol You are the one attaching significance to it, in the hopes of looking for a motive, IMO. The way I see it, OJ Simpson had a pretty good life going, and was not the least bit interested in killing Nicole. Nicole, imo, was much more useful to OJ alive, than dead.... and I'm sorry because I don't want to sound cold... but for the purpose of this discussion, it's true!
She was the mother to his children. (I doubt he wanted to be a single father), she was his friend (they had a friendship, nobody can argue that), she was somebody he had an emotional history with and feelings of affection, and even love--
No motive for murder that I can see. None at all.

Control. He could no longer control her. He was the abuser. He had the money. He had the friends. He was the brute. She was scared of him. She made diary entries. She kept copies of pictures of her beaten face in her lockbox. She showed her mother the book she was reading regarding abuse and told her that it fit her. She called the abuse hotline. There were witnesses to him actually, physically hitting her. He denied ALL of this. Why?

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by Beebee


Nothing unusual for a divorced couple.
In many cases, the non-speaking goes away after a bit, especially if kids are involved. That seemed to be the pattern of OJ and Nicole. Pretty typical, imo.
No escalation. Just the opposite, imo.

When did Nicole write OJ that letter? Before or after the "domestic violence"?

It IS NOT a typical relationship when there is abuse involved. Not typical at all.

OJ was throwing Nicole and his very own kids out of their home. He was so mad at her that he didn't care about his own kids having a home. He only cared about being mad at her. There was MUCH tension the week that lead up to the murder.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Beebee


Why do you think OJ wanted Nicole dead?
They were rage killed. It was overkill. What would be the reason for that? Sloppy and done with rage. If you think he premeditated this, then he sure as heck picked the worst way! There would have been numerous better ways.

Do you really wonder why he might have wanted to go away?
I don't.
By the way, $10,000 is nothing. A few socks and underwear? Sounds like a short trip to get away to me.

Thoughts of suicide? I can see that too. imo he wasn't equiped to handle the thoughts that anyone could think he could kill Nicole. He was an American hero. imo he was devastated for multiple reasons. I could see irrational suicidal thoughts, if nothing else, for attention.
Doesn't make him a killer, at all, imo.

When he went to Bundy, I'm quite certain that he didn't intend for Ron to show up which quickly turned a "neat" little plan into something far bigger and beyond his control.

Most women who are killed at the hands of their controller are killed by a slashed throat. It is considered a personal killer. Now, obviously that isn't true in all cases, but there is a profile that does exist.

OJ was concerned only about himself after Nicole's death. His niece Terri Baker has said that she wondered why he was only concerned with and talking only about himself without once mentioning Nicole. I do understand that he quite a few things to be concerned with, but when you've just lost the woman you spent 17 years with and who is the mother of your children it would seem to me that you mention her, or at the very least put your energy into comforting your small children.

You are correct that those behaviors don't make him a murderer. It's the fact that the evidence shows that he killed Nicole and Ron that makes him a murderer.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by limakey
Taz,

IMO, both G's and NG's feel the same on the subject of justice for Nicole and Ron. I don't think the G's have sole custody of this emotion.

I don't think it is possible for both sides to feel the same on the subject of justice for Nicole and Ron.

Those who feel that OJ is guilty of both domestic violence and murder feel a tidal wave of something different than those who believe that OJ is innocent of all things yet feel bad that a "true killer" was not brought to justice.

Two very different sets of emotion on that one.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Beebee

And by the way-- unless somebody is a serial killer or psycho, I do need to see some kind of motive. But that's just me. And in this case..... there was no motive what-so-ever for OJ to kill Nicole. imo

Many people do. Even when evidence points overwhelmingly toward something we often times need to feel a sense of why the event occurred.

In the civil trial, Dan Petrocelli felt the same. While legally he was not required to prove motive, he said that he felt that the jurors would need to have some understanding of what drove an American hero to slash two people to death.

That's why he delved into the past of the Simpon's lives like no one had done before. He spoke to everyone that would speak to him, and for those who wouldn't speak willingly, he had them subpoenaed and had them tell their story that way.

He found a string of witnesses who testified about firsthand witnessing of OJ hitting, slapping, or punching Nicole. Even Lenore Walkers notes stated that OJ had fit the profile of the batterer. Lenore Walker is the domestic violence awareness pioneer who met with OJ in jail during the criminal trial and was supposed to testify for the defense. The defense never called her, and I'm guessing that the reason may be because her professional opinion of OJ's profile as a batterer is not what they expected her to come out with.

[alien]

Originally posted by socaldiva



Waaa....like a blowfish :D

Hey, Friend...

You always seem to find pictures for some postings. Can you find one for this? :D

[alien]

Originally posted by Beebee



Thoughts of suicide? I can see that too. imo he wasn't equiped to handle the thoughts that anyone could think he could kill Nicole. He was an American hero. imo he was devastated for multiple reasons. I could see irrational suicidal thoughts, if nothing else, for attention.
Doesn't make him a killer, at all, imo.

Hi, BeeBee.

IMHO, your post just goes to prove the selfish side of OJ. Not suicide because Nicole was murdered and he would never see her again, but suicide because he looked bad in the public eye (and to stop any arguments, SOME, in the public eye). Didn't care about what kind of impact his suicide would have on his children. You did say irrational thoughts, though. I just don't happen to agree with that.

I agree with your comment about the attention thing. Pity poor me, OJ...SOME people don't like me now and think I killed Nicole. IMO, he never intended to commit suicide, he just wanted SOME people to feel sorry for him.

It was stated earlier that it wasn't unusual for OJ to carry large sums of money and a passport, but the disguise thing wasn't usual IMO. Someone said back some time ago they thought it was because OJ would disguise himself when he went out in public. I didn't buy that at all because OJ reveled in his fame. I think it was because he didn't want to be seen and he was planning to run.

I respect your thoughts even if I don't agree with them.

Can anyone enlighten me as to how the Bronco chase started. I just remember on tv seeing it, but don't remember how the police came to be aware of it.

[alien]

Originally posted by Beebee


fbg-

The few incidents of domestic abuse doesn't surprise me. They were both pretty assertive, imo-
IMO there was no pattern that was esculating to murder, in fact, just the opposite, imo.

Why doesn't it surprise you? They may have both been pretty assertive as you put it, but IMO there is no way that Nicole could have done as much damage to OJ as he did to her.

Please explain your statement about "there was no pattern......in fact, just the opposite.

Thanks, Alien.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by alien


Hi, BeeBee.

IMHO, your post just goes to prove the selfish side of OJ. Not suicide because Nicole was murdered and he would never see her again, but suicide because he looked bad in the public eye (and to stop any arguments, SOME, in the public eye). Didn't care about what kind of impact his suicide would have on his children. You did say irrational thoughts, though. I just don't happen to agree with that.

I agree with your comment about the attention thing. Pity poor me, OJ...SOME people don't like me now and think I killed Nicole. IMO, he never intended to commit suicide, he just wanted SOME people to feel sorry for him.

It was stated earlier that it wasn't unusual for OJ to carry large sums of money and a passport, but the disguise thing wasn't usual IMO. Someone said back some time ago they thought it was because OJ would disguise himself when he went out in public. I didn't buy that at all because OJ reveled in his fame. I think it was because he didn't want to be seen and he was planning to run.

I respect your thoughts even if I don't agree with them.

Can anyone enlighten me as to how the Bronco chase started. I just remember on tv seeing it, but don't remember how the police came to be aware of it. IIRC, AC called and told them he had OJ in the car and OJ was holding a gun to his head.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by alien


Why doesn't it surprise you? They may have both been pretty assertive as you put it, but IMO there is no way that Nicole could have done as much damage to OJ as he did to her.

Please explain your statement about "there was no pattern......in fact, just the opposite.

Thanks, Alien.

There had not been abuse in many years.... so I don't see a pattern of increasing violence- I hope that made sense.

I hate to say it, but IMO OJ was not much different than many pro football players. I think he realized quickly that his strength and size could hurt Nicole, and he stopped being pysical at all when they had fights. Remember, Nicole was also physical, but she couldn't make a dent. Still, their mindsets were similar, imo.

Did you notice in Nicoles letter to OJ, she describes herself as the controlling one?

[alien]

Originally posted by Beebee


There had not been abuse in many years.... so I don't see a pattern of increasing violence- I hope that made sense.

I hate to say it, but IMO OJ was not much different than many pro football players. I think he realized quickly that his strength and size could hurt Nicole, and he stopped being pysical at all when they had fights. Remember, Nicole was also physical, but she couldn't make a dent. Still, their mindsets were similar, imo.

Did you notice in Nicoles letter to OJ, she describes herself as the controlling one?

Thanks for responding BeeBee. Did the physical abuse stop after their divorce. If that is the case then OJ wouldn't be with Nicole as much. I can't imagine that he would abuse her if he was trying to get her to come back to him.

I haven't read the letter in a really long time and should to refresh my memory, but did she possibly mean controlling as in mentally or that she was in control of the situation NOW?

Thanks, Alien

[alien]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
IIRC, AC called and told them he had OJ in the car and OJ was holding a gun to his head.

I wonder if that was staged or if AC called because he was really concerned that OJ would kill himself?

I keep trying to remember some of the details, but you know what they say, the mind is the first to go.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by alien


Thanks for responding BeeBee. Did the physical abuse stop after their divorce. If that is the case then OJ wouldn't be with Nicole as much. I can't imagine that he would abuse her if he was trying to get her to come back to him.

I haven't read the letter in a really long time and should to refresh my memory, but did she possibly mean controlling as in mentally or that she was in control of the situation NOW?

Thanks, Alien

She meant that when they were together, she was the one who was controlling. She wanted him back.
Hold on... I'll get a link for you.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


There had not been abuse in many years.... so I don't see a pattern of increasing violence- I hope that made sense.

I hate to say it, but IMO OJ was not much different than many pro football players. I think he realized quickly that his strength and size could hurt Nicole, and he stopped being pysical at all when they had fights. Remember, Nicole was also physical, but she couldn't make a dent. Still, their mindsets were similar, imo.

Did you notice in Nicoles letter to OJ, she describes herself as the controlling one? The abuse never stopped! He only stopped once Nicole had the letter from Orenthal's lawyer saying he would forfeit the pre-nup if he ever touched her again. The mental and emotional abuse NEVER stopped. His obsession with her never stopped.

The only person who ever said Nicole was physical was Orenthal. No one else. Can you point to one hospital visit, police call or picture that shows him injured?

What I noticed in Nicole's letter was someone who thought they could make it better. But isn't that what all battered women say? If I don't make him made, he won't hurt me.

[Beebee]

alien,

Here is an excellent link that I got from some other posters here... it has a ton of info:

http://walraven.org/simpson/simpson.html

The letter is on there.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


She meant that when they were together, she was the one who was controlling. She wanted him back.
Hold on... I'll get a link for you. Wrong

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee
alien,

Here is an excellent link that I got from some other posters here... it has a ton of info:

http://walraven.org/simpson/simpson.html

The letter is on there. I think this pretty well sums up their relationship: " I'm the one who was controlling. I wanted you to be faithful and be a perfect father. I was not accepting to who you are."

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by Beebee
Bob,

You wrote:

Gigi had gone to Knott's Berry Farm to celebrate Filipino Independence Day with her family and at 8:00 Sunday night she called Simpson to ask permission to come back Monday morning. Simpson agreed.


What if Gigi hadn't called?? You think Nicole would be alive?

My point is it was Gigi who made the request not to be there, it wasn't OJ trying to keep her out of the house.

So much for premeditation.

And by the way-- unless somebody is a serial killer or psycho, I do need to see some kind of motive. But that's just me. And in this case..... there was no motive what-so-ever for OJ to kill Nicole. imo



Beebee, yes I do believe if Gigi hadn't called, Nicole would have been still alive at least for that night.

That telephone call gave Simpson a rare and unexpected opportunity.

The premeditation came after that telephone call. After that telephone call Simpson changed his clothing putting on the dark colored sweat suit. After that telephone call Simpson went to Kaelin's room to ask Kaelin for money for the skycap. Simpson was planning his alibi

Yes. there was a motive Simpson for Simpson to kill Nicole. He had made that threat before but this time nothing stopped him from actually carrying it out. The opportunity and circumstances made it possible.

bobaugust

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Beebee


There had not been abuse in many years.... so I don't see a pattern of increasing violence- I hope that made sense.

I hate to say it, but IMO OJ was not much different than many pro football players. I think he realized quickly that his strength and size could hurt Nicole, and he stopped being pysical at all when they had fights. Remember, Nicole was also physical, but she couldn't make a dent. Still, their mindsets were similar, imo.

Did you notice in Nicoles letter to OJ, she describes herself as the controlling one?

Coming into play here is the common misconception that abuse is only physical. People don't take into consideration emotional, sexual, and financial abuse ... all of which are based on the need to control someone and all of which are capable of leading to an explosive ending.

We don't know if he continued to be physical with her. All we have is speculation, and we will never know because he won't admit to it and she is dead. What we do know, based on testimony in the civil trial, is that there was in fact a whole lot of escalating anger and tension in her final weeks. What we do know is whether or not he hit her, he continued to stalk her and intimidate her. We have individuals who testified that she told them in her final weeks that she was scared because he was following her. We have Ron Fischman, one of OJ's staunchest supporters, who admitted to us in deposition that OJ told him on the night of the recital that he was "going to get her, but good". Ron testified that OJ seemed wierd and dark at that time.

It saddens me that she considered herself to be controlling because she wanted him to be a good father and faithful husband.

[fbgweezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by Kate Sachel
It saddens me that she considered herself to be controlling because she wanted him to be a good father and faithful husband. Me too but I figure that was what he had convinced her of -- she was at fault. The true mark of the abuser.

[martin II]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


Coming into play here is the common misconception that abuse is only physical. People don't take into consideration emotional, sexual, and financial abuse ... all of which are based on the need to control someone and all of which are capable of leading to an explosive ending.

We don't know if he continued to be physical with her. All we have is speculation, and we will never know because he won't admit to it and she is dead. What we do know, based on testimony in the civil trial, is that there was in fact a whole lot of escalating anger and tension in her final weeks. What we do know is whether or not he hit her, he continued to stalk her and intimidate her. We have individuals who testified that she told them in her final weeks that she was scared because he was following her. We have Ron Fischman, one of OJ's staunchest supporters, who admitted to us in deposition that OJ told him on the night of the recital that he was "going to get her, but good". Ron testified that OJ seemed wierd and dark at that time.

It saddens me that she considered herself to be controlling because she wanted him to be a good father and faithful husband.

link to this about ron fishman's testimony. please

martin II

[martin II]

bob

GIGI not comming to work + Paula left anothet call + oj had to sit 2-3 chairs from nicole at the recital + nicole did not invite oj to mezzaluna (although her mother did) all of this caused oj to forget, everyhing he had going for him, forget his children go on a
uncontrollable rage and go kill the mother of his children and someone he cared for. imo None of the above was worth even paying any attention to. imo
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* Me too but I figure that was what he had convinced her of -- she was at fault. The true mark of the abuser.

fbg

Don't you think Nicole would be a better judge of whether she was a controller in her relationship with oj than you. I have never
viewed Nicole as some dumb blond not able to know what and why she felt a certain way. imo

martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


link to this about ron fishman's testimony. please

martin II LOL -- can you never research any of the stuff yourself? I have yet to see you support any of your outrageous fantasies with links to proof/evidence!

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II
bob

GIGI not comming to work + Paula left anothet call + oj had to sit 2-3 chairs from nicole at the recital + nicole did not invite oj to mezzaluna (although her mother did) all of this caused oj to forget, everyhing he had going for him, forget his children go on a
uncontrollable rage and go kill the mother of his children and someone he cared for. imo None of the above was worth even paying any attention to. imo
martin II But HE did and left his blood, footprints, cap, glove, hair and fiber at the murder scene in the process. FACT!

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

Don't you think Nicole would be a better judge of whether she was a controller in her relationship with oj than you. I have never
viewed Nicole as some dumb blond not able to know what and why she felt a certain way. imo

martin II I understand exactly how you viewed Nicole since you have made it clear in your postings on this thread. She most certainly could -- and did -- judge her relationship with Orenthal so she kept a lockbox with pictures of his abuse, her diaries chronicling the abuse, letters to and from Orenthal and most telling, her will. Then she told family and friends that she was afraid he was going to kill her and finally, called a hot line for abused women.

What other evidence do you need to know what that relationship was about?

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Wrong


fbg


Dear O.J.
I'd like to see you, to talk to you in person. But I know you can't do that. I've been attending these meetings to help me turn negatives into positives -- to help me turn get rid of my anger . . . . I've learned to "let things go" (the most powerful, helpful thing I've ever learned). I've learned that all things that upset & bother me are just a mirror of what's going on in me. I always knew that what was going on with us was about me -- I just wasn't sure why it was about me -- So I just blamed you. I'm the one who was controlling.
martin II

[martin II]

fbg here is the link to the above.
martinII


http://walraven.org/simpson/simpson.html

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
LOL -- can you never research any of the stuff yourself? I have yet to see you support any of your outrageous fantasies with links to proof/evidence!

fbg

the request was made to the poster kate not you.
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I understand exactly how you viewed Nicole since you have made it clear in your postings on this thread. She most certainly could -- and did -- judge her relationship with Orenthal so she kept a lockbox with pictures of his abuse, her diaries chronicling the abuse, letters to and from Orenthal and most telling, her will. Then she told family and friends that she was afraid he was going to kill her and finally, called a hot line for abused women.

What other evidence do you need to know what that relationship was about?

fbg
nicoles words.

http://walraven.org/simpson/simpson.html

O.J. You'll be my one and only "true love." I'm sorry for the pain I've caused you and I'm sorry we let it die. Please let us be a family again, and let me love you -- better than I ever have before.

I'll love you forever and always . . .

O.J., I want to come home -- I want us all to be together again -- We can move wherever you want -- we can stay here -- I just never want to leave your side again.

martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg
nicoles words.

http://walraven.org/simpson/simpson.html

O.J. You'll be my one and only "true love." I'm sorry for the pain I've caused you and I'm sorry we let it die. Please let us be a family again, and let me love you -- better than I ever have before.

I'll love you forever and always . . .

O.J., I want to come home -- I want us all to be together again -- We can move wherever you want -- we can stay here -- I just never want to leave your side again.

martin II I'm not surprised that she's been convinced it was all her fault and I'm not surprised that his abuse of her has been turned around to be 'all about OJ.' You might gain some real insight if you did some research on domestic abuse.

Why are you skipping over the part about him whoring around and not being a good dad? But she wasn't willing to kill herself over him and he was willing to kill himself over her. What does that tell you?

[tazzybaby]

It is so frustrating to deal with this abuse stuff. If you're going to use ONE letter to define the abuse or non-abuse...please use this one....

http://walraven.org/simpson/nb-to-oj.html

And if I wanted to hurt you or had it in me to be anything like the person you are -- I would have done so after the (illegible) incident. But I didn't even do it then. I called the cops to save my life whether you believe it or not. But I didn't pursue anything after that -- I didn't prosecute, I didn't call the press & I didn't make a big charade out of it. I waited for it to die down and asked for it to. But I've never loved you since or been the same.



To save her life folks. She was so scared of this man that she thought he was capable of KILLING her. But, yet she blamed herself. That's what abuse victims do. They blame themselves. For one thing .... the abusers tell them it's all their fault.

:rolleyes:

[fbgweezer]

I've had a thought -- Orenthal retrieved Paula's kiss-off message earlier in the day but continued to call her right up to the time he left for the murders. Wonder if he was trying to track her to make sure she wasn't coming by Rockingham or trying to track him?

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by Beebee


There had not been abuse in many years.... so I don't see a pattern of increasing violence- I hope that made sense.

I hate to say it, but IMO OJ was not much different than many pro football players. I think he realized quickly that his strength and size could hurt Nicole, and he stopped being pysical at all when they had fights. Remember, Nicole was also physical, but she couldn't make a dent. Still, their mindsets were similar, imo.

Did you notice in Nicoles letter to OJ, she describes herself as the controlling one?

Beebee,

It wasn't many years. When he broke down the door it was only months before her murder. She was freaking out that he would hurt her. She was crying on the phone. She told her friend that she felt like the next time he woul