Karla.....a danger to the public

[Hope MT]

Here's why I believe Karla is an ongoing danger to the public.

She is clearly bi-sexual in my opinion and given her desire for young girls which she clearly spelled out in the videos with Paul, she will no doubt be fantasizing about her past experiences. In fact, in the transcripts of the videos, she said she wanted really young girls (13 years old to be exact).

Her crimes weren't isolated to a single incident but rather occured on numerous occasions with careful planning. She seemed to be a willing participant, was sexually aroused and in fact took the "lead" during the rapes/assaults many times.

Even in prison, she turned to "same sex" activities with certain cell mates, which in itself may not be unusual but she certainly seemed to totally immerse herself in this lifestyle and flaunt it, rather than just seek temporary sexual relief as other female inmates seem to do. Now bear in mind, there is nothing wrong with a gay lifestyle in my opinion........it's just that Karla seems to use it as a tool to further her own agendas.

Now, teamed up with her obvious lack of concern for victims of her "hobbies", if she meets the wrong type of male character on the outside, and knowing full well that most men fantasize about being with two females at once, she could very well slip right back into her ways as a predator of young girls.......and although rare (I think), some men also want underage girls or can be talked into it like Paul seems to have been.... (remember, all of his previous rapes involved grown women until Karla became involved)

I am also very concerned with her access to the internet now that she has been released and what new methods of operation she could be learning........and with who.

I hope the media continues to keep a very close eye on her.

Thanks for reading my concerns.

[ella]

Hello!
I would just like to ask, do you think Karla was the leader rather than her husband in all of this?
I know he raped women before but like you said young girls were brought into it by Karla. Do you think that Karla went for the younger girls as they were more vunerable? :D

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by ella
Hello!
I would just like to ask, do you think Karla was the leader rather than her husband in all of this?
I know he raped women before but like you said young girls were brought into it by Karla. Do you think that Karla went for the younger girls as they were more vunerable? :D

Welcome. IIRC, as time went on, Paul was only interested in virgins and that is why the girls were so young. Paul was also extremely upset when he found out that Karla was not a virgin. Enter Jane Doe and Karla's baby sister, Tammy. Hope this helps!

[ella]

Thats right, yes!! I forgot about that bit of information!!
I had never even heard about these people until a couple of weeks ago and i must say it is absolutley vile what they did to those poor girls.


I feel that even though Karla may have been abused by Paul it still does not excuse the part she played in all of this.

Some people may say she has served her time for the crime and must be able to get on with her life now.
It is just unfortunate that the girls she helped to murder will never get the chance to get on with their lives.

[northernrflxn]

Originally posted by Hope MT
Here's why I believe Karla is an ongoing danger to the public.

She is clearly bi-sexual in my opinion and given her desire for young girls which she clearly spelled out in the videos with Paul, she will no doubt be fantasizing about her past experiences. In fact, in the transcripts of the videos, she said she wanted really young girls (13 years old to be exact).

Her crimes weren't isolated to a single incident but rather occured on numerous occasions with careful planning. She seemed to be a willing participant, was sexually aroused and in fact took the "lead" during the rapes/assaults many times.

Even in prison, she turned to "same sex" activities with certain cell mates, which in itself may not be unusual but she certainly seemed to totally immerse herself in this lifestyle and flaunt it, rather than just seek temporary sexual relief as other female inmates seem to do. Now bear in mind, there is nothing wrong with a gay lifestyle in my opinion........it's just that Karla seems to use it as a tool to further her own agendas.

Now, teamed up with her obvious lack of concern for victims of her "hobbies", if she meets the wrong type of male character on the outside, and knowing full well that most men fantasize about being with two females at once, she could very well slip right back into her ways as a predator of young girls.......and although rare (I think), some men also want underage girls or can be talked into it like Paul seems to have been.... (remember, all of his previous rapes involved grown women until Karla became involved)

I am also very concerned with her access to the internet now that she has been released and what new methods of operation she could be learning........and with who.

I hope the media continues to keep a very close eye on her.

Thanks for reading my concerns.

I truly do not understand your desire, need even, to make Homolka the driving force behind the crimes. You want to put the desire for young women at Homolka's feet against all reason, and against even a cursory look at the evidence.

Van Smirnis, a lifelong friend of Paul Bernardo and the person who tipped authorities on his suspicions of Bernardo being involved in both the Scarborough rapes and the Niagara region killings, related Paul's fantasy of a 'Virgin Farm' that had persisted from adolescence through adulthood. According to 'Deadly Innocence', years before he ever met Karla Homolka Paul regularly told Van about his fantasy of having young virgin schoolgirls, all around 11 or 12 years old and dressed in school uniforms with their hair in pigtails perform whatever he asked of them. The youngest publically known victim of the Scarborough rapes was just 15.

Homolka has claimed that her words on the transcripts of the videos of the consensual sex between her and Bernardo were loosely scripted by Berndardo, or at least a product of her understanding of his expectations. We know through many sources that he sought extensive violence/domination themed dialogue to achieve sexual satisfaction and that that again started well before he met Homolka. It's true that her stomach turning words had to have fueled the dark fantasies of a very dangerous man, but how could she know that then? As he did with women long before Homolka, he used various means of psycholgical and physical control to create successive 'new normals' to edge her towards exclusively serving his own twisted needs on his terms.

The tape you reference is also the tape where we see a seismic split between what Homolka says about her 'enjoyment' of the deadly assault on Tammy and what the tape of Tammy's rape actaully reveals: an angry, sobbing, whimpering Homolka futilely resisting Bernardo's sick demands for Homolka to sexually interact with her comatose sister. The tape of Tammy is all anybody needs to understand and believe the profound control he excercised over Karla with words and the always lurking threat of violence alone, and the tape of her talking about it is all one needs to see and believe that she is just playing a role and not expressing her own desires.

She is not blameless. She made choices, and three people are dead that would not be but for her involvement. But it was his sick, dark, twisted world, not hers.

[Hope MT]

She is not blameless. She made choices, and three people are dead that would not be but for her involvement.

Thank you Northern for acknowledging this fact at least.....

I read the rest of your post too......

[northernrflxn]

Originally posted by Hope MT
[Thank you Northern for acknowledging this fact at least.....

I could sit around and acknowledge all kinds of things all day long. It's not those on my side of this issue who have a problem acknowledging things. Its not my side who won't engage on the facts, or who don't feel at least a fundamental responsibility to them. It's not my side who finds it necessary to engage in the wanton feeding of self perpetuating illusions in order to hold Homolka responsible for her crimes. It's not my side who finds a bunch of bald faced lies a fitting memorial to the lost girls.

These are general comments not meant to be directed to you personally Hope. I recognize that your unique connection to this case probably makes the idea of 'debate' rather unappealing. I *am* sorry for your loss, and your very personal pain. Many aquainted with this case have a particular connection to someone they think of as 'their victim'. Mine has always been Leslie, so you and I have something in common not so deep down.

I think I'm going to be done here for a bit again. I find the whole excercise of trying and failing to persuade people of the wisdom and worthiness of finding humanity in Homolka disheartening and depressing. Mine is a difficult public position to take, and it is my impression that many lurkers might like to explore this complex case at a greater depth than the masses here will tolerate. If anyone is interested in futher discussion, PM me and I can recommend another forum that is more tolerant of a wide range of views.

[MrToadsWildRide]

No one on the face of this earth could ever make me see Karla in a different light.Like I have said..I believe that true evil dwells within the female race as well as the male race.

I need no psychiatry to confirm the way that I feel...no evaluations,no religious beliefs,no nothin.In my own opinion this is just the way that some people are.It's sad..but to me it's true.

[singlesix]

"I find the whole excercise of trying and failing to persuade people of the wisdom and worthiness of finding humanity in Homolka disheartening and depressing."

Gets tiring swimming upstream, doesn't it. Ever consider that you could be wrong? Ever consider that the reason you find the exercise depressing is because it's a losing battle on many fronts?

singlesix

[ella]

I believe we live in a world where everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even though many of us do not like it.

I feel , Yes, what she did was wrong and evil and unforgivable but at the end of it all she has served her time in prison. I know she made a deal to get a lighter sentence than her husband.

I am not excusing the crimes that she commited by far, I just think that in the eyes of the law she has paid her dues to society. She will be judged again the day she dies.
If she is that evil person than she cannot hide it from the powers that be!!! jmo

[northernrflxn]

Originally posted by singlesix
Gets tiring swimming upstream, doesn't it. Ever consider that you could be wrong? Ever consider that the reason you find the exercise depressing is because it's a losing battle on many fronts?

singlesix

Given your apparent preference for employing time and bandwidth to share information on the extent of the inbreeding it has taken to produce your smug ignorance over researching anything I have to say, ever consider that you just might be the dead last guy to figure out I could be right about an awful lot?

Tell me, has your family not left Virginia because they're afraid they might fall off the edge (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html)?

[northernrflxn]

Elsie, thanks for your reply. I understand your feelings and your argument, but the problem is that people don't know what they think they know. Geographic factors, temporal factors, media factors, justice factors, and momentum all came together to create a perfect storm that has whipped and hammered incomplete, misleading and sometimes dead wrong information to every corner of the globe. The result has been stunningly exponential, and disquieting truths about our media and our politicians that go far beyond one ex con who can't get her hands clean have been effectively lost. It's so discouraging, and I find myself having to fight a deep cynicism completely foreign to my personality and make up.

[northernrflxn]

I am not excusing the crimes that she commited by far, I just think that in the eyes of the law she has paid her dues to society. She will be judged again the day she dies.
If she is that evil person than she cannot hide it from the powers that be!!! jmo

She won't be able to hide it from anybody for long. Evil people leave a trail of victims feeling exhausted and spent, used and turned inside out. Outside of the 18 months or so between December 1990 and April 1992 Homolka has never done that. Everybody liked her until they didn't anymore. After 15 years of reading and thinking and reading and thinking some more I am convinced that the original dealmakers had things right in spirit. Finding Homolka and Bernardo equally responsible for these crimes would have been its own form of injustice, as serious as not punishing her at all would have been.

She is no longer a danger to society. Character is fate. Leave her be, and trust that all things will unfold as they should.

[ella]

I do trust things will unfold as they should!!!

[Canadian]

Since I am home dealing with health issues, I thought that I would waste part of the time posting here.

Northernrflxn, the intricate assemblage of your statements is indicative of an individual with internal struggles.

IMO, you are using the tragic events involving Karla to address personal concerns on more perplexed issues.

Simply put, you are travelling in the center of the road so that you can quickly jump to one side if necessary.

You have stated that Karla is no longer a threat to society. Will you state your qualifications to make such a statement? Books and media reports are not qualifications.

There are only two living people who know THE facts - Karla and Paul.

I do read your posts with interest, however, you middle of the road approach does not give me the desire to partake in a discussion with you.

---------------------

MrToadsWildRide said:
"I believe that true evil dwells within the female race as well as the male race."

VERY TRUE! Now, will society as a whole ever adapt to that fact?

---------------------
Hope MT

I read your first post here. You also appear to be indecisive on Karla's involvement. Part of your post blames Karla for her actions, then your post changes to blaming any potential male participant.

The postings here is evidence of the backward approach society continues to follow. Although there may be blame placed on the female there remains a hidden focus of blame on the male evil-doer.

[Canadian]

The last sentence of my previous post should be..........Although there may be blame placed on the female there remains a hidden focus of blame on the male evil-doer for the female's involvement.

[Canadian]

Elsie wrote:
"I have worked in the programmes department of penal institutions with very,serious offenders and helped many.

I was one of the few employees who would coach any inmate, and allow any inmate to enrol for my courses, without exception. I even allowed a mother who had decapitated her own daughter to enrol for my class.

I had a great rapport with most, and they confided in me and came to me for help, and allowed me to visit even when in solitary for fighting with other personell."

------------------

The following is no attack against Elsie. It happens to be a topic of interest to me.

First, I will address Elsie's comments about being selective in who she/others allow in the programs. Although Elsie may allow any and all inmates to attend the program she instructs, that is not the same for all instructors......

The programs are designed and implemented with all inmates in mind. To deny an inmate entry into a program is a violation of that inmates rights. It also results in the inmate not receiving any guidance to assist with his/her future, especially when released from the penal institution....

As horrific as the crime(s) may be, the program instructors are not to focus on the crimes but on the person he/she is attempting to guide.

As for the validity of the programs, due to speaking with former inmates of penal institutions on the topic of the programs, I concluded that the implementation of the programs are - shall we say - focused on the lower intelligent inmates. The design and implementation of the programs suggest that the inmates are not cognitive to the reasons and consequences of their actions. The programs are focused more on the victims than on the victimizers. The programs are setup to have the inmates adhere to the harm caused to the victim(s). It is important for the inmates to be aware of the harm to the victims, however, repetitive sessions do more harm to the inmates......

This post is long enough.If you read Elsie's statement carefully you will
discover a number of the negative issues within the penal institutions caused by the employees of Corrections Canada.

[Canadian]

I should not have ended with Corrections Canada. These problems exist within all nations.

[Hope MT]

Two points........


To "Northern',

Your reply to "SingleSix" whereby you chose to attack him/her personally by mocking the person because of their birthplace is curious to say the least in light of your incessant need to display your belief that you are morally and intellectually superior to everyone else........SingleSix said nothing to you which was off-topic and only responded in a mature way by posing a legitimate question to you.........and your response?.....a feeble attempt at humiliation in order to "win" the day. Very sad.
Off hand, I would diagnose you as a person who generally uses "passive aggressive" tactics to keep people off-balance. And as we just saw, when that fails, you get personal.........tsk, tsk.

You just lost all credibility.


To "Canadian";

No I am not on the fence. Both Paul and Karla are demented, sick and twisted monsters ......Paul is exactly where he belongs and Karla escaped (through an incredible story of pure BS luck) true justice......I don't believe her story of spousal abuse as the root of her involvement......they are equally guilty without a doubt. I do believe she actually killed Kristen and Leslie but we will never know that 100%.....ever ! (it will always be a "he said/she said" deal and that's a shame.

And just to screw up the heads of the morally superior in here..........IT FEELS GREAT TO "HATE" THOSE TWO LOW-LIFES!......AND IT WILL ALWAYS FEEL GREAT TO HATE THEM AND WISH THE WORST FOR THEM!!.........Analyze that!

have a nice day everyone!:seeya:

[Canadian]

Hope MT

You 'speak' of others being morally and intellectually superior. One of the reasons that you are obsessed with HATING Karla and Paul is to give you a sense of superiority. Yes, most do hate what the two of them did, and they should be hated. But, when one LOVES to HATE, then one has serious issuses.

Karla and Paul involved themselves in actions that invaded and shocked the Canadian conscience. Those actions were foreign to Canada and Canadians.

Many Canadians are not pleased with the sentence given to Karla, but they will not take to the streets and protest nor demand harsher laws. That is not the Canadian way. Canadians will inform themselves of the mistakes that allowed such actions to develop, and then pressure the Gov't and the Canadian society as a whole to implement preventative measures to decrease the chances of a repetition of said actions.

Canadians do not sensationalize any type of tragedy. Their feelings and actions are low-keyed. That is evident in this forum since most of the posters are non-Canadian.

[Hope MT]

Karla and Paul involved themselves in actions that invaded and shocked the Canadian conscience.

Oh...puhlease!......they brutally kidnapped, raped, totured and heartlessly murdered my friend's daughter.....

The psycho babble and politically correct nonsense I read is mind-boggling!

And that's why our inept and impotent judges in this country are failing.........they are scared to offend people with the truth of matters and call a spade a spade.......

Frankly, I do enjoy hating those two animals and will continue to do so in spite of the potestations on the "bleeding heart society"

And if that is a flaw in my character, well, I'm damn proud I have some good flaws then!

[Canadian]

Hope MT wrote:
"they brutally kidnapped, raped, totured and heartlessly murdered my friend's daughter....."


That is your true reason for being here. If Karla received the same sentence as Paul, you would still be here.

Would you be as obsessed with it if it was not your friend's daughter?

IMO, Your obsession at hating Karla and Paul is due to your personal connection to the tragedy. It is certain that you witnessed the suffering of your friend and her/his family. Your personal observation of your friend's suffering is what triggered your hatred for Karla and Paul. If you were to be truly honest with yourself, you would see that it is not about the deal given to Karla.

Hope MT wrote:
"And that's why our inept and impotent judges in this country are failing.........they are scared to offend people with the truth of matters and call a spade a spade......."

Your placement of full blame on the judges is what is mind-boggling.

You state that judges are afraid to offend people. Have you been inside a courtroom lately? All parties involved reveal a lot to the public.

Hate is a reactionary measure for the weak minded.

Many people use the word hate without understanding its scope....

Do you hate Karla and Paul? Do you hate Karla and Paul for their actions? Do you hate Karla and Paul because of their actions? Do you hate Karla and Paul's actions?....

Involve yourself in internal searching in an attempt to discover the true level of hate directed towards the tragedy.

I fell it is necessary to repeat myself........I am in no way giving an ounce of understanding to Karla and Paul. They both should have been sent to prison for the rest of their lives.

[Canadian]

Near the end, in the previous post............the word should be feel...not fell.

[floridasweet5]

I agree 100% with HOPE MT about her being in society again. All she has to do is hook up with another guy like Paul and you have double trouble again...hence..........2 dangerous pedophiles.
Girl and guy preying on young girls.

I'm a mother and 56 livin in Florida. What the hell is this country comin too????????

My mother complained about the 60's and 70's......thats nothing compared to these days.

PARENTS, TEACH YOUR KIDS.

KIDS, LISTEN TO YOUR PARENTS, OR YOU MIGHT END UP LIKE SOME OF THESE KIDS ON THE NEWS.

MICHELLE
VERO BEACH

[Canadian]

floridasweet5 wrote:

"I agree 100% with HOPE MT about her being in society again. All she has to do is hook up with another guy like Paul and you have double trouble again...hence..........2 dangerous pedophiles.
Girl and guy preying on young girls."


There it is again. The suggestion that Karla's needs a partner. What about Karla meeting a female like herself? There is always that hidden belief that the male gender has to be a factor in the negative actions of females.

floridasweet5 wrote:
"I'm a mother and 56 livin in Florida. What the hell is this country comin too???????? My mother complained about the 60's and 70's......thats nothing compared to these days."

Part of the problem is acceptance. There is no acceptance of it being right, but the acceptance that it happens. The shock barrier has been broken. Of course, there are many other factors.

floridasweet5 wrote:
"PARENTS, TEACH YOUR KIDS. KIDS, LISTEN TO YOUR PARENTS, OR YOU MIGHT END UP LIKE SOME OF THESE KIDS ON THE NEWS.

Parents are teaching their children, and the children are listening. However, too much teaching could lead to a false sense of security (not to mention false accusations). I could say a lot on this topic, but the bottom line is that the parents need to heighten the monitoring of their children. Teenagers need as much, if not more, monitoring than the younger children.

[floridasweet5]

TO CANADIAN,

MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE BEEN CLEARER. IT GOES BOTH WAYS SHE COULD MEET ANOTHER FEMALE AND DO THE SAME THING.........BUT......................MOST SEX OFFENDERS ARE MALES.........ISN' THAT TRUE CANADIAN?????? THAT PREY ON FEMALES, MALES OR JUST KIDS.

YES, YOU HAVE THE FEMALE SEX OFFENDERS ALSO AS WELL AS THE "COUPLE TYPE" , BUT STATS SHOW MORE MALES THAN FEMALES.

ANY COMMENTS??????????????

FLORIDASWEET5

[Canadian]

".MOST SEX OFFENDERS ARE MALES.........ISN' THAT TRUE CANADIAN"


That is NOT true. It is true that more males are convicted for sex crimes.

Studies show that females are as likely to be involved in sex crimes as males.

Historically, society became resigned to the appearance of the male gender being the evil-doers. Books could be written on this topic, so it would not do it justice to post a bit of info on an Internet forum.

I will say this much.......historically, when a young male was sexually assaulted by a female it was seen as education...when a young female was sexually assaulted by a male it was seen as abuse. This, in part, is what allowed the females to get away with their sex crimes.

[Canadian]

Every person has to be cautious when reading stats. If the stats are not fully understood then they can be misleading.

Stats may show that more males were convicted of sex crimes, but that does not conclude that females are not at an equal level when it comes to committing sex crimes.

Throughout the decades studies have been hidden from the public. These studies conclude that females are more likely to abuse children, as oppose to males. Mothers are more likely to abuse their children, all forms of abuse, than the fathers.

[hockeymomof5]

Originally posted by Canadian
<snipped>".MOST SEX OFFENDERS ARE MALES.........ISN' THAT TRUE CANADIAN"


That is NOT true. It is true that more males are convicted for sex crimes.

Studies show that females are as likely to be involved in sex crimes as males.



BS!!! show us a link that proves this.

Here's what I found that disputes what you have stated here. While it is US statistics, I highly doubt that those in Canada differ greatly.

The vast majority of sex offenders are male. However, females also commit sexual crimes.

In 1994, less than 1% of all incarcerated rape and sexual assault offenders were female (fewer than 800 women) (Greenfeld, 1997). By 1997, however, 6,292 females had been arrested for forcible rape or other sex offenses, constituting approximately 8% of all rape and sexual assault arrests for that year (FBI, 1997). Additionally, studies indicate that females commit approximately 20% of sex offenses against children (ATSA, 1996). Males commit the majority of sex offenses but females commit some, particularly against children.


http://www.csom.org/pubs/mythsfacts.html

[floridasweet5]

Originally posted by floridasweet5
TO CANADIAN,

MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE BEEN CLEARER. IT GOES BOTH WAYS SHE COULD MEET ANOTHER FEMALE AND DO THE SAME THING.........BUT......................MOST SEX OFFENDERS ARE MALES.........ISN' THAT TRUE CANADIAN?????? THAT PREY ON FEMALES, MALES OR JUST KIDS.

YES, YOU HAVE THE FEMALE SEX OFFENDERS ALSO AS WELL AS THE "COUPLE TYPE" , BUT STATS SHOW MORE MALES THAN FEMALES.

ANY COMMENTS??????????????

FLORIDASWEET5

Canadian,

Going back in history, I remember many more male sex offenders than females. I'm NOT saying that males get away with it more than females, I'm saying that their are MORE MALE sex offenders than females.
Go to any of the web sites that show you the pedophiles and or sex offenders depending what site you look at, you'll have more men to women. I wasn't saying that females don't do that or don't get caught, just saying stats say more men and women. Also, how many female peep in toms do you hear of???

Floridasweet5

[floridasweet5]

Originally posted by Canadian
".MOST SEX OFFENDERS ARE MALES.........ISN' THAT TRUE CANADIAN"


That is NOT true. It is true that more males are convicted for sex crimes.

Studies show that females are as likely to be involved in sex crimes as males.

Historically, society became resigned to the appearance of the male gender being the evil-doers. Books could be written on this topic, so it would not do it justice to post a bit of info on an Internet forum.

I will say this much.......historically, when a young male was sexually assaulted by a female it was seen as education...when a young female was sexually assaulted by a male it was seen as abuse. This, in part, is what allowed the females to get away with their sex crimes.

Canadian,

I agree with you when you said that females are a likely to be involved in sex crimes as males.

What I was saying was more males are involved in the sex crimes than women.

How many gang bangers / gang rapes have you heard that were committed by felmales??????
How many gang bangers / gang rapes have you heard that were committed by males????????

I rest my case.

Floridasweet5

[floridasweet5]

Originally posted by Canadian
Hope MT

You 'speak' of others being morally and intellectually superior. One of the reasons that you are obsessed with HATING Karla and Paul is to give you a sense of superiority. Yes, most do hate what the two of them did, and they should be hated. But, when one LOVES to HATE, then one has serious issuses.

Karla and Paul involved themselves in actions that invaded and shocked the Canadian conscience. Those actions were foreign to Canada and Canadians.

Many Canadians are not pleased with the sentence given to Karla, but they will not take to the streets and protest nor demand harsher laws. That is not the Canadian way. Canadians will inform themselves of the mistakes that allowed such actions to develop, and then pressure the Gov't and the Canadian society as a whole to implement preventative measures to decrease the chances of a repetition of said actions.

Canadians do not sensationalize any type of tragedy. Their feelings and actions are low-keyed. That is evident in this forum since most of the posters are non-Canadian.

Canadian,

Since you are Canadian and you feel that ALL canadians feel your way, what if it was your wife, daughter, sister, brother son,
any family member.................Would you feel the same way?????????

I don't think so, your a human being and having something like that happen close to home I think you would feel differently. Or I should say that most people would, I'm sure there are the chosen few who would not, just like the people who feel that execution is wrong.

Floridasweet5

[singlesix]

"The vast majority of sex offenders are male. However, females also commit sexual crimes.

In 1994, less than 1% of all incarcerated "

__________

Key word: incarcerated. That does not prove one way or the other how many crimes were commited or how they break out by gender, only how many were a)caught; b)tried; c)convicted; d)incarcerated.

singlesix

[Canadian]

floridasweet5 and hockeymomof5

You can quote from any stat, but it is useless. It is impossible to know the number of sex crimes or any crime committed by each gender.

The stats are gathered from police records, court records, and penal institution records.

Since more males are charged and convicted for sex crimes, and all crimes, then it is obvious that the stats would indicate the there are more male sex offenders than female sex offenders. It would also show that males commit more crimes than females. THE STATS ARE MISLEADING.

Do either of you care to explain why more males are sent to prison than females? Why males get harsher sentences than females?

Would you care to explain why young males are laughed at when they attempt to report a sexual assault, especially if the offenders are female?

Changes are now in place and more females are being charged for sexual assaults. This will change the stats.


floridasweet5, you asked how I would feel if it was my family member.........

Well, let me tell you............I had 2 young relatives who were tortured and sexually molested... I had 2 friends who were tortured, raped, and set on fire. One of them died.......................

[quiscalus]

I hope you don't mind a newbie jumping in here, but in my opinion what "Canada" says is very, very true. Statistics are based on REPORTED incidents. So many women are afraid of the humiliation they will be put through in court when they report sexual assault, but at least in most cases -- not all -- they have the cops on their side. Men are often too afraid of being considered "wimps" by the cops to even take that first step.

I don't have any personal stories about men who have reported sexual abuse, but my father's second wife was extremely abusive physically. When she hit him in the head with a leaded crystal ashtray, he finally called the cops, whose response to my Dad was, "Don't you know how to handle her?" Mind you, this was 20 years ago and the laws are a bit different now, but I remember how ashamed he was. And we're not even talking about some strong young guy here; my Dad was already well past retirement age and quite frail. Of course, if he had "handled" her, he'd have been arrested. When I think of those cops, I can only wonder how they'd have reacted if my Dad was 35 years old and told them he'd been SEXUALLY abused or battered by a woman. I honestly think they'd have laughed.

And quite often, if it is reported and tried, sentencing is a joke. There was a recent piece on the Crime Library site about a woman who was convicted of rape in the case of a young man (she was significantly older). This was NOT a statutory rape case; the young guy was not a willing partner who just happened to be a few years under-age. Her sentence? 6 MONTHS. (I'm sorry; I don't know how to link the story or even how to look in archived information so I hope someone else saw it; it wasn't more than a month or two ago.) That's appalling in this day and age!

Quoting LE statistics on sexual predators is about as accurate as quoting "official" unemployment statistics; it doesn't tell anywhere near the entire story. I'm not saying that woman are more likely, or even AS likely, to be sexual predators; I'm merely saying that we've no way of really knowing.

Sorry to go on so long. Thanks for letting me share my opinion.

[Canadian]

quiscalus, do not be concern about being a newbie. We were all one at one time.

Personally, I appreciate your comments, whether in agreement or disagreement.

There is nothing to learn if the discussion is one sided. Agreement and disagreement is needed for any discussion to be productive.

The difficulty on this forum is the on-the-fence approach. At times, it is difficult to side with or against a poster due to this approach.


quiscalus, I am not saying that you have taken this approach. I am simply making a general statement.

What is interesting is that the feminist movement - the movement to exercise a balance of the genders - is resulting in the revelation of the female reality.

[quiscalus]

Thank you for your kind words, Canadian.

I am a feminist, and I am also a firm believer in individual responsibility. If you do the crime, you do the time, plain and simple -- gender doesn't play a role in it. If you are legally sane by the legal (McNaughten) definition, you do the time.

Otherwise, there's probably not a person on earth who couldn't come up with some mitigation.

[floridasweet5]

Originally posted by Canadian
floridasweet5 and hockeymomof5

You can quote from any stat, but it is useless. It is impossible to know the number of sex crimes or any crime committed by each gender.

The stats are gathered from police records, court records, and penal institution records.

Since more males are charged and convicted for sex crimes, and all crimes, then it is obvious that the stats would indicate the there are more male sex offenders than female sex offenders. It would also show that males commit more crimes than females. THE STATS ARE MISLEADING.

Do either of you care to explain why more males are sent to prison than females? Why males get harsher sentences than females?

Would you care to explain why young males are laughed at when they attempt to report a sexual assault, especially if the offenders are female?

Changes are now in place and more females are being charged for sexual assaults. This will change the stats.


floridasweet5, you asked how I would feel if it was my family member.........

Well, let me tell you............I had 2 young relatives who were tortured and sexually molested... I had 2 friends who were tortured, raped, and set on fire. One of them died.......................

Ok Canadian,

I agree with you, as well as the new person. We all have our opinion on this subject, and could go on for days.

And canadian

On the other subject, I work with a woman whos son in law killed her 5 yr. granddaughter by swing her around by the feet and put her through the trailer wall. (Not the first time for the abuse) Both in jail for murder then trial he cut a bargain got 27 yrs. she cut a deal got 13 1/2 yrs. No justice here. I was raped by my own father over 30 yrs. ago for 4 yrs. where is the justice here, other than he is dead.
Sorry, did not mean to get off the subject.

YOu both are right about the stats. I am wrong. I'm a new comer to this board also.

:o :o :shrug: floridasweet5

[Canadian]

Hopefully they will have to serve the 27 years and 13.5 years without early release.

There are parents who starved to death their 3 year old son. There was lots of evidence that the mother was responsible. The mother could not attach herself to the child in any way. The mother would tie the child to his bed and put a sock in his mouth. Although the father was at work for part of the day he should have seen signs.

Each parent received a sentence of 16 years. The mother served 5 years and was released. The father remains in prison.

[quiscalus]

I think there are still a lot of people out there who believe -- or choose to convince themselves -- that a mother cannot possibly kill her own child. And if the father, stepdad or boyfriend is also involved, they choose to believe that the mother's complicity was somehow coerced by the male in her life.

I do think that mindset is changing in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, but it's changing slowly...as evidenced by both of your examples, florida and Canada.

[Canadian]

quiscalus, it is moving slowly, but at least it has started to move in that direction.

Hopefully, judges and others involved with the justice system will soon get on the bandwagon and travel to reality. Then, and only then, will there be an increase in the safety and protection of children.

[quiscalus]

Originally posted by Canadian
quiscalus, it is moving slowly, but at least it has started to move in that direction.

Hopefully, judges and others involved with the justice system will soon get on the bandwagon and travel to reality. Then, and only then, will there be an increase in the safety and protection of children.


Well said!:beer:

[Canadian]

An interesting site........

http://www.canadiancrc.com

A couple of articles.......

"More women charged in sex cases"

"WOMEN: THE FORGOTTEN CHILD MURDERERS"

"Women who kill their children are given sympathy and sentenced to "treatment" while men who do the same thing are charged with murder and sentenced to life."

[snuf123]

Hi i'm new to this site and have been reading what everyone has to say about Karla. As a Canadian citizen it makes me angry that this pathetic excuse for a woman who kills innocent children would be released into the general public. I truly believe that she is the evil behind the whole thing........she's not stupid as she got a plea deal before the tapes were found. It makes me worry for my children and children everywhere that a known child murderer is living among us......People say she served her time blah blah....well it wasn't enough time as far as I'm concerned. JMO!!

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by snuf123
Hi i'm new to this site and have been reading what everyone has to say about Karla. As a Canadian citizen it makes me angry that this pathetic excuse for a woman who kills innocent children would be released into the general public. I truly believe that she is the evil behind the whole thing........she's not stupid as she got a plea deal before the tapes were found. It makes me worry for my children and children everywhere that a known child murderer is living among us......People say she served her time blah blah....well it wasn't enough time as far as I'm concerned. JMO!!

Yep, she's definitely not stupid. She knew that the tapes were in existence, yet conveniently forgot all about them. Once they were found, her "Sweetheart Deal" was forever etched in concrete. She also conveniently forgot about offering up her young girlfriend, Jane Doe, for Paul to rape. Great Gal!

JMO and MOO!!

[northernrflxn]

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8


Yep, she's definitely not stupid. She knew that the tapes were in existence, yet conveniently forgot all about them. Once they were found, her "Sweetheart Deal" was forever etched in concrete. She also conveniently forgot about offering up her young girlfriend, Jane Doe, for Paul to rape. Great Gal!

JMO and MOO!!


For those who feel some repsonsibility to the facts:

1. She told authorities about the existence of the tapes from day one, and accurately described their contents with regard to the crimes against Leslie and Kristen

2. The discovery of the tapes did not negate her deal because she has been forthright about their contents from the beginning, not because the deal was unassailable.

3. Homolka revealed the assault on Jane Doe herself almost a year before the tapes were discovered, and five months after her deal was signed. It was determined that she could be charged for the Jane Doe assaults despite her deal. For a variety of reasons, she was ultimately not charged.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by northernrflxn

For those who feel some repsonsibility to the facts:

1. She told authorities about the existence of the tapes from day one, and accurately described their contents with regard to the crimes against Leslie and Kristen

I stand corrected.

2. The discovery of the tapes did not negate her deal because she has been forthright about their contents from the beginning, not because the deal was unassailable.

I stand corrected.

3. Homolka revealed the assault on Jane Doe herself almost a year before the tapes were discovered, and five months after her deal was signed. It was determined that she could be charged for the Jane Doe assaults despite her deal. For a variety of reasons, she was ultimately not charged.

The infamous tapes were kept secret by Bernardo's attorney until 8-94.

The Canadian Authorities finally got a hold of the tapes in 9-94.

Homolka apparently "forgot" about Jane Doe. It came back to her in a dream. On 10-6-93, Karla wrote her attorney stating that "I don't remember much of it ... I have to tell them but what if they nail me for this too?"