Dateline exposing Internet sexual predators

[sappapalooza]

Has anyone seen this? I was so horrified as I watched it for the first time the other day. So many men of all ages and professions coming around to meet those they thought were 13 year old boys and girls. It sickened me.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10912603/
These predators are the sickest of the sick, there were teachers, rabbis, trusted members of the community. If you have kids, ask them if they have a myspace site. So many kids post their personal info and any loser on earth can see it. So many parents have no clue as to what their children are doing online.

The good news is that there's a group called perverted justice- they are all volunteers who help expose these sick b@stards. I am thinking of volunteering to help them.
http://www.perverted-justice.com/
Warning, going to that site and reading some of the conversations will make your skin crawl!!!!

What's scary is that these pedophiles may get arrested, but many are back out again. I watched the show w/ my best friend and her 3 daughters (ages 13, 14 and 15) and we discussed it. That's to me the best thing a parent can do.....

[Sandpiper]

I've been watching this for quite some time now. I am appalled at how many men they have caught. One arrived and removed his clothing and one brought his five year old to the house. Perverted monsters all of them in my opinion.

[sappapalooza]

Originally posted by Tracian
Hiya darlin'! long time no see :)

I watched the special too. I was at first kinda upset that it seemed that only male predators were targeted, (a very close friend of mine's son was literally kidnapped at 13 by a teacher at his school) But it seems that female predators tend to seduce those that they personally know rather than trolling the internet.




imo

BB
Hi right back at you darling :) Happy Memorial Day to you!
Well the thing is... I thought that too, about the women. But I do agree with you, with women it tends to be the teachers and their 13 year old students. The fact that men don't take it seriously, and say "gee he was lucky that the beautiful 25 year old teacher had sex with him" is crazy. That's like saying "the 13 year old girl was lucky that the "hot" 24 year old guy hit on her." Double standards I do believe....
Is your friend's son okay now?? I am sorry to hear that!
I am also glad that they targeted both pedophiles who went for not just boys but also girls. Many idiots will say that pedophiles just hit on boys and that's not true... as we can see from this documentary...I think most of them thought they were meeting up w/ a 13 year old girl.
What made me think was that this was just a small sting in 2 or 3 states.... I am sure this is going on a million times over. It's really disgusting and scary.

[sappapalooza]

Originally posted by Sandpiper
I've been watching this for quite some time now. I am appalled at how many men they have caught. One arrived and removed his clothing and one brought his five year old to the house. Perverted monsters all of them in my opinion.

It also made me sick to see how many of them there were, and yes I remember the psycho who brought his child. So many of them tried to make excuse after excuse..... "Oh I was only here to take him to lunch or to keep him company." Denial is a bad thing for these guys. It just made me so upset really....

[SteelerFan]

here in PA set up to catch these sick freaks on the internet. Last fall they caught the sports editor of a local newspaper talking to what he thought was a very young teenage girl. The details of the conversation he had with her on Yahoo were absolutely sickening. He set up meeting with her at a McDonald's and the cops were there to arrest him. Now his attorney is challenging the sting operation's constitutionality. Good luck!!!! Undercover work has been going on since there has been law enforcement in place and it will hold up this time. The lengths to which these perverts will go to justify their actions know no bounds. And, of course, it's always the first time they've ever done this!!!!

[Manzanita]

Our town, here in Ohio, has been exposing these guys for several years now. There were two guys arrested just this week....their pictures were splashed all over the front page of the local paper & they were on our local 6 o'clock TV news. A year or so ago, there was a Family Practice, MD, arrested here in town.....he was from Soouthern Ohio & drove all the way up here thinking he was meeting a 14 year old girl. I'm amazed that these guys are still doing this stuff after all this recent exposure.

[Blossie]

(I would argue that our efforts to "protect" children should be focused on tending to the millions of children who die of starvation and disease around the world, rather than criminalizing internet users - but that's another story).

Attempts to regulate and filter internet content are intensifying lately, coming both from telecommunications corporations (who are gearing up to pass legislation transferring ownership and regulation of the internet to themselves), and the Pentagon (which issued an "Information Operations Roadmap" in 2003, signed by Donald Rumsfeld, which outlines tactics such as network attacks and acknowledges, without suggesting a remedy, that US propaganda planted in other countries has easily found its way to Americans via the internet). The growing media frenzy over child pornography and "internet predators,"is a publicity stunt perpetrated by the government to justify legislation that by far exceeds such "threats".

You only have to go back to 1991 when the administration of Bush I enlisted the help of a powerful public relations company to fabricate the story about "Incubator Babies" Remember them? Those helpless little "preemies" who were being ripped out of their incubators by Saddam Hussein's marauding armies in Kuwait. A tearful Kuwaiti nurse gave testimony to Congress saying that she had witnessed this horrific event. Some of you might remember that "Nariya" the nurse was in fact the Kuwaiti ambassador's daughter, who was coached to bear false witness to an event that had never happened. The government needed a simplistic, gut wrenching narrative to justify their attack on Iraq to a somewhat skeptical American audience. I suspect that Justin whats-his-name, the boy who recently testified to congress about "internet predators" is no different than "Nariya" the nurse - another propaganda tool in the service of the corporate/military state.

[SteelerFan]

please correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying this stuff isn't going on, and if it if, it really isn't that bad of a problem?

[snoopyone]

Originally posted by Blossie
snipped
The growing media frenzy over child pornography and "internet predators,"is a publicity stunt perpetrated by the government to justify legislation that by far exceeds such "threats".


Are these your thoughts or were you quoting an unamed source?

Either way I think that's a bunch of hogwash. The internet just provides another huge venue for these sickos.

[Blossie]

Originally posted by SteelerFan
please correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying this stuff isn't going on, and if it if, it really isn't that bad of a problem?

I would say that the criminal activities of a few perverts do not justify the imposition of a corporate/state takeover of the internet. If you are so concerned about the problem, might I suggest you limit your childrens' access to the computer and use the tools readily at your disposal to educate them about such risks? As an adult and a parent, YOU are responsible for raising your childrens' awareness and keeping track of their online habits.

[SteelerFan]

I DID monitor my son's activities when he was younger, but I am glad he is an adult now and not a young teenager living with this as a new risk. Getting the word out that the sickos are trolling for victims on chat rooms does NOT translate into big brother controlling the internet and our free and responsible use of it. Private groups and the news media exposing this risk is smart and a really effective way for a free society to watch out for its most vulnerable - our children. And if the pervs weren't so devious as to be posing as anything but the criminals that they are, NONE of this would be necessary. IMO

[Blossie]

Originally posted by snoopyone


Are these your thoughts or were you quoting an unamed source?

Either way I think that's a bunch of hogwash. The internet just provides another huge venue for these sickos.

These are my thoughts, but they are shared by millions of others concerned about censorship and first amendment rights. It is no coincidence that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is stirring up a witch hunt on internet predators at a time when telecommunications companies are demanding unfettered control of the internet. The corporate world and the political establishment are pursuing the same agenda here, and the media is playing along. After all, sexually adventurous teens and the men who pursue them on Myspace et al is a sure fire ratings bonanza.

[sappapalooza]

Originally posted by Blossie


I would say that the criminal activities of a few perverts do not justify the imposition of a corporate/state takeover of the internet. If you are so concerned about the problem, might I suggest you limit your childrens' access to the computer and use the tools readily at your disposal to educate them about such risks? As an adult and a parent, YOU are responsible for raising your childrens' awareness and keeping track of their online habits.

So you don't blame these predators at all, you are blaming the parents completely? While I do think that parents do need to get it together and be real about all this stuff, I think that sadly parents have to work, some single moms have to have 2 jobs... and aren't able to monitor their children 24/7 - their kids may know more about how to get past things on the internet than they do.

[Blossie]

Originally posted by SteelerFan
I DID monitor my son's activities when he was younger, but I am glad he is an adult now and not a young teenager living with this as a new risk. Getting the word out that the sickos are trolling for victims on chat rooms does NOT translate into big brother controlling the internet and our free and responsible use of it. Private groups and the news media exposing this risk is smart and a really effective way for a free society to watch out for its most vulnerable - our children. And if the pervs weren't so devious as to be posing as anything but the criminals that they are, NONE of this would be necessary. IMO

Have you noticed that this has suddenly become a hot topic at a time when lawmakers are ready to pass a law making it easier for corporations to control internet content? And what better time to trot out the old rhetorical trope of a nation under threat by "sexual deviants" than when the administration is plagued by scandals involving illegal surveillance of its own citizens? It doesn't take Einstein to do the math here.

[sedonarocks]

Originally posted by Tracian
Hiya darlin'! long time no see :)

I watched the special too. I was at first kinda upset that it seemed that only male predators were targeted, (a very close friend of mine's son was literally kidnapped at 13 by a teacher at his school) But it seems that female predators tend to seduce those that they personally know rather than trolling the internet.




imo

BB

First impression, what they were doing struck me as 'entrappment'. The more I watched, by the end of the show, I was totally convinced, as Steelerfan suggested, that the most vunerable--our children--require protection from the slimeballs that go trolling on-line looking for a vunerable child to take advantage of.

You've made a great point Tracian, that female predators have been exposed thru the news media. While they tend to seduce those they personally know, rather than trolling the internet, we've heard increase stories of those (and now there is a technical name for females that search for younger men) that go on 'My Space' looking for action where vunerable young adults frequent.

Hats off to dateline for exposing these sickos.

[Blossie]

Originally posted by sappapalooza


So you don't blame these predators at all, you are blaming the parents completely? While I do think that parents do need to get it together and be real about all this stuff, I think that sadly parents have to work, some single moms have to have 2 jobs... and aren't able to monitor their children 24/7 - their kids may know more about how to get past things on the internet than they do.

The predators should be dealt with on an individual basis. There is no need to collectively punish all internet users for the abuses of some. The prospect of having free speech and basic privacy rights curtailed by exaggerated threats to "our children" is far more worrisome to me than some Myspace yahoo getting it on in cyberspace with some bored kid in a chat room. There was a time when dancing the Charlston, riding in "motor cars" and skirts above the ankles inspired similar hysterical responses. But let's not kid ourselves. This is not about protecting children, it's about laying the foundations for a garrison security state where the internet exists as a vehicle for advertising and state propaganda.

[FrankieBones]

Originally posted by sappapalooza


It also made me sick to see how many of them there were, and yes I remember the psycho who brought his child. So many of them tried to make excuse after excuse..... "Oh I was only here to take him to lunch or to keep him company." Denial is a bad thing for these guys. It just made me so upset really....
I'm so glad Dateline has been doing this and I hope they continue this practice for a long time to come. These creeps that prey (or thing they are meeting up with kids) need to be put away. Some even admitted to watching the Dateline specials but went ahead anyway. Their drive overrides everything.
imo

[disneyland]

First impression, what they were doing struck me as 'entrappment'. The more I watched, by the end of the show, I was totally convinced, as Steelerfan suggested, that the most vunerable--our children--require protection from the slimeballs that go trolling on-line looking for a vunerable child to take advantage of.

From PeeJ's faq page
http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?pg=faq#18

So are the files we post "entrapment"? No. Not on any level. First, entrapment is a term created and judiciated against law enforcement officials. We are not law enforcement officials. Secondly, these people IM our names first. We don't IM them. They choose to say the things they say, to agree to the things they agree to, and to give their phone number for the verification call. Entrapment is a situation where you go out of your way to entice a citizen as law enforcement to commit a crime they otherwise would not commit. For example, if a department sent around female police pretending to be prostitutes to knock on the doors of private citizens offering sex, that's entrapment. We don't do the figurative "knocking on doors." Rather we sit, wait, and allow them to knock upon our online "door." And when they do, they're in for a surprise.

Dozens and dozens of convictions... zero successful entrapment defenses.

sappapalooza, come over to PeeJ and join the forums. Then send me a PM. I am active over there myself.

[sappapalooza]

Originally posted by disneyland


From PeeJ's faq page
http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?pg=faq#18


sappapalooza, come over to PeeJ and join the forums. Then send me a PM. I am active over there myself.
I don't know your screen name there....

[rph3664]

Several years ago, a very well-respected local doctor whose wife was head of the local child abuse council was arrested in one of these stings.

He drove to a city 3 hours away to meet what he thought was a 14-year-old girl at a McDonald's, and once he pulled into the driveway, the cops swarmed in.

I don't know what all happened to him, but his wife immediately quit her job and he lost his medical license.

[jantheman]

Originally posted by disneyland


From PeeJ's faq page
http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?pg=faq#18


sappapalooza, come over to PeeJ and join the forums. Then send me a PM. I am active over there myself. yea its amazing and scary..all they do is create a teen profile..and enter chatroom ..and wait. THAT said..i wish these shows would also focus on prevention, from classroom education to computer monitoring ect. sadly there enough predators to show this 7 nights a week. and really..they r all the same. sick dangerous beings in different bodies, but the same person basically.

[nachonaco]

OK, guys - let's not blame MySpace anymore, because MySpace and its' staff are not there to make it a porn site or sex site.

Let's blame the stupid teenagers that post pisc of themselves and their addresses.

[sappapalooza]

Originally posted by nachonaco
OK, guys - let's not blame MySpace anymore, because MySpace and its' staff are not there to make it a porn site or sex site.

Let's blame the stupid teenagers that post pisc of themselves and their addresses.

I honestly believe that myspace should not allow ANYONE under 18 to have a web page there. Their age limit is 13, and these teens are posting so much of their personal information. You can call them "stupid" but they are just teens, and think nothing will ever happen to them.

As far as someone else mentioning entrapment, I do not get that sense at all. These trolls/scumbags go to them in the chat room.

As far as the govt wanting to make laws re the internet, I do not see how my rights on the internet are going to be hurt because there are people trying to stop the predators. I think this is a scary and disturbing issue that had to be exposed.

[sappapalooza]

Originally posted by rph3664
Several years ago, a very well-respected local doctor whose wife was head of the local child abuse council was arrested in one of these stings.

He drove to a city 3 hours away to meet what he thought was a 14-year-old girl at a McDonald's, and once he pulled into the driveway, the cops swarmed in.

I don't know what all happened to him, but his wife immediately quit her job and he lost his medical license.

THere's so much deception that goes on!!! A lot of these scumbags have wives..I feel so sorry for them. It's bad enough when your spouse cheats on you, I can't imagine finding out that your husband was cheating on you with a 13 year old. If you go to the site of perverted justice.com you can see how disgusting and sexually explicit these men are with the kids... How horrified a wife must be when she finds out what her "loving" husband had written to some kid...
One of the scumbags brought his 5 year old and got busted. THe cops had to take the kid away before they handcuffed him and they called his wife to pick up the kid.I felt so sorry for this wife.

[sappapalooza]

Originally posted by Justicegy
I wonder if there are people out there who never watch TV, never see a newspaper, never talk about these events.

I can't believe, sometimes, when I see it with my own eyes on these Sting shows NBC does.....how on earth do these men NOT know how risky it is and why haven't they stopped doing this, knowing that they might be jailed for doing so. Then I realize that pederasty is a perversion, and that most pederasts will not be cured, and that they are addicted to this.

If we put 10,000 of them in prison, there will be another 10,000, and probably more than half the original 10,000 will re-offend in the same way when and if they get out of jail. Do we build more jails for them? Do we make them pay fines? Do we lock them in "adult only" communties?

I realize that the sting shows on NBC make for good drama and shock value, but NBC has been doing these shows for months now. To what end?

What is the real solution?

You bring up many good points. I do not know the solution. We see these men taken away in handcuffs ...but the reality is many of them may just get a couple years in jail and bang, they are out again.
I do not know the solution as you are right , it's not like there's a cure. Even on the show, one guy, after being busted by the show and back out on the street, got busted for a 2nd time.
I do not know the solution.... some people think they should be jailed for life, part of me feels that way, but you are right, are there enough jails?
Are there enough resources to deal with this issue?
That's why parents have to be very careful. When your child has a web page and posts their entire life, they are prey.



I look forward to reading people's thoughts.

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by Blossie


These are my thoughts, but they are shared by millions of others concerned about censorship and first amendment rights. It is no coincidence that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is stirring up a witch hunt on internet predators at a time when telecommunications companies are demanding unfettered control of the internet. The corporate world and the political establishment are pursuing the same agenda here, and the media is playing along. After all, sexually adventurous teens and the men who pursue them on Myspace et al is a sure fire ratings bonanza.

Blossie -

Could you have been misinformed? This is not a First Amendment issue. This is a Public Safety issue.

The University of New Hampshire has been researching this for some time, as have the University of PA and others. In fact, there has been a growing number of papers and research done though a variety of colleges and institutions that have confirmed a growing phenomena where the internet is being used by pedophiles and sexual deviants to hunt for their prey.
The FBI crime stats bear this out.

Here is a great read.

http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/publications/NC132.pdf

A little time researching might help you understand that it really has nothing to do with First Amendment rights and everything to do with Public Safety.

And for the record this is NOT just a US problem. There is a fantastic org. in England. Been at this for 11 years. The founder recently died. A great loss...

Here are some links.

http://www.childnet-int.org/

http://kidshealth.org/parent/positive/family/net_safety.html

http://www.kardasz.org/Internet_Crime_Information_Arizona.html

Hopefully these last two links will help you clear the realilty - unless you think more than one or two children being killed is really less important than someone's First Amendment rights?


Kacie Woody - ARK
http://www.kthv.com/printfullstory.aspx?storyid=6416

Christina Long - Conn.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/31/national/main510739.shtml

I did this really fast. Think it should help clear the fog, though.

ALL MOO of course.


:seeya:

[ShadowedMe]

Originally posted by Justicegy
I wonder if there are people out there who never watch TV, never see a newspaper, never talk about these events.

I can't believe, sometimes, when I see it with my own eyes on these Sting shows NBC does.....how on earth do these men NOT know how risky it is and why haven't they stopped doing this, knowing that they might be jailed for doing so. Then I realize that pederasty is a perversion, and that most pederasts will not be cured, and that they are addicted to this.

If we put 10,000 of them in prison, there will be another 10,000, and probably more than half the original 10,000 will re-offend in the same way when and if they get out of jail. Do we build more jails for them? Do we make them pay fines? Do we lock them in "adult only" communties?

I realize that the sting shows on NBC make for good drama and shock value, but NBC has been doing these shows for months now. To what end?

What is the real solution?


I look forward to reading people's thoughts.

Unfortuantely, there will always be a neverending supply of them until we are able to protect children and get children who have been molested the help they need before they turn from victim to predator. Until that day comes, it will never stop. Since many kids are too confused and ashamed to say anything, it often goes undetected until it's too late. Especially when adults around the child don't notice any warning signs that there might be a problem.

[f0rTyLeGz]

Im with Blossie on this issue. I think that freedom is much more important than protecting poor innocent children from these "predators." I think these guys, and there seems to be an endless chain of them, are mentally ill. And they all have the same problem too. And I bet not one that we have seen on MSNBC has ever had sex with a child. It's all fantasy. They get their thrill through the imagination, but when some adult comes on to them like they are a child and getting off on it for real, then they get really hooked.

But truly they are a pitiful lot, but I really dont think they are all that dangerous, and waiting to pounce on some innocent nice kid. Sure it has happened, and nice young girls have run off with older guys that they met on the internet, but I bet in reality it is very rare, and that really we all have much more to fear from uncle Bob, than we do these "internet predators."

[athy]

there was one guy on the last show i watched that was already arrested for molesting his niece, he was out on bail waiting for his sentencing hearing when he was then picked up because of this show.

i would say for him it was a bit more than just a fantasy.

[f0rTyLeGz]

Originally posted by athy
there was one guy on the last show i watched that was already arrested for molesting his niece, he was out on bail waiting for his sentencing hearing when he was then picked up because of this show.

i would say for him it was a bit more than just a fantasy.
Well, are you making my point for me?

Do you think that we have uncovered a whole new criminal here, because there seems to be many many of these guys... should we put them all away? Then watch 'em for the rest of their lives? Because they were seduced by someone who was "pretending" to be a forbidden sex object?

[Valkyrie08]

Originally posted by f0rTyLeGz
Im with Blossie on this issue. I think that freedom is much more important than protecting poor innocent children from these "predators." I think these guys, and there seems to be an endless chain of them, are mentally ill. And they all have the same problem too. And I bet not one that we have seen on MSNBC has ever had sex with a child. It's all fantasy. They get their thrill through the imagination, but when some adult comes on to them like they are a child and getting off on it for real, then they get really hooked.

But truly they are a pitiful lot, but I really dont think they are all that dangerous, and waiting to pounce on some innocent nice kid. Sure it has happened, and nice young girls have run off with older guys that they met on the internet, but I bet in reality it is very rare, and that really we all have much more to fear from uncle Bob, than we do these "internet predators."

I agree. Children are more likely to be sexually abused by someone they know or trust, such as a family member or adult family friend.

Here (http://www.darkness2light.org/KnowAbout/statistics_2.asp) is some more info on the subject.

[RootBeer]

Originally posted by Blossie
(I would argue that our efforts to "protect" children should be focused on tending to the millions of children who die of starvation and disease around the world, rather than criminalizing internet users - but that's another story).



Why does it have to be an "either-or" proposition? Law enforcement agencies, can continue to capture these internet predators while other agencies can (Gates Foundations for one) can help starving children and disease. Your argument makes no sense. Pedophiles are dangerous criminals and we need to get every last one of them off the street.

http://www.CreepyLawyers.Com

[nachonaco]

Originally posted by sappapalooza


I honestly believe that myspace should not allow ANYONE under 18 to have a web page there. Their age limit is 13, and these teens are posting so much of their personal information. You can call them "stupid" but they are just teens, and think nothing will ever happen to them.

As far as someone else mentioning entrapment, I do not get that sense at all. These trolls/scumbags go to them in the chat room.

As far as the govt wanting to make laws re the internet, I do not see how my rights on the internet are going to be hurt because there are people trying to stop the predators. I think this is a scary and disturbing issue that had to be exposed.

I'm 17 and I know enough not to post that kind of stuff....the most anyone gets from me, because I don't post on chats that have to deal with giving away a location/local chat rooms, is that I'm a girl and that I'm 17.

[User615]

Originally posted by Blossie


Have you noticed that this has suddenly become a hot topic at a time when lawmakers are ready to pass a law making it easier for corporations to control internet content? And what better time to trot out the old rhetorical trope of a nation under threat by "sexual deviants" than when the administration is plagued by scandals involving illegal surveillance of its own citizens? It doesn't take Einstein to do the math here.

You are exactly right. I bet very few realize that if you have even one picture on your computer of an underage person, you are subject to be raided by the FBI, and can be charged with a Felony and subject to up to 15 years in jail. This has nothing to do with real predators or molestors, but you will be listed on the sex offenders registry along with them. It's the "hot list" right now. Forget the illegal aliens and meth labs....let's get those that look at porn.

[echo_strange]

Hi All,

I'm just getting my feet wet in the Investigations field as a second career. I want to get involved in catching predators online, hopefully being able to cut my hours in half with my full time career that keeps me out of the country quite often. Does anyone know how to get involved as a civilian working from home catching these creeps? I have looked into many websites that are volunteers, unfortunately, that will not pay the bills. So if anyone has info. please contact me..thanx