General Case Discussion: OLD THREAD

[Lionthrone]

Originally posted by Wukong
Lionthrone is a one trick pony and, alas, the one trick he does know is not very good. As I browse the boards reading threads of interest, Lionthrone occassionaly pops up with his one tired trick and leaves.

Wukong,

I think you're selling me short :(

While the O J Simpson message board did command my attention over the past ten years (two of which the board was closed by the moderators for vicious banter ) I followed dozens of other trials during that same time frame, many of which didn't involve white on black, or black on white crime.

During those times more than ever my keen insight and natural intuitive abilities (which was appreciated by all) allowed me to cut through the Minutia and get to the heart of the case.

That kind of track record shouldn't be so easily dismissed :no:



Lionthrone :)

[alien]

Originally posted by Lionthrone


Wukong,

I think you're selling me short :(

While the O J Simpson message board did command my attention over the past ten years (two of which the board was closed by the moderators for vicious banter ) I followed dozens of other trials during that same time frame, many of which didn't involve white on black, or black on white crime.

During those times more than ever my keen insight and natural intuitive abilities (which was appreciated by all) allowed me to cut through the Minutia and get to the heart of the case.

That kind of track record shouldn't be so easily dismissed :no:



Lionthrone :)

Sorry martin, but I am disregarding my post about personal stuff and as I said, I only think about lion when he posts.

So here goes........I really wish they had a BIG HEAD icon.

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II


alien
everyone would not respond to situaitons exactly as you would or as you expect them to. I am sure you understand that.
martin II

You are right, my dear. I understand what you are saying. However, I would think that most people would act according to the situation at hand.

I have never seen OJ, after he was found not guilty, act like a grieving person or someone who has respect for his ex-wife who was so brutally murdered even though in his "suicide" letter, he made it sound like he just could not live without her. Apparently he could and did and didn't mind trashing her. Remember the Juiced segment. What kind of respect is that for Nicole?

Once he heard the verdict, after his famous words about finding the real killer of Nicole. he acted like he just didn't care.

IMO, normal behaviour is what normal people show. OJ, IMO, is an egotistical person who only cared about himself. And you know what, for all that he put forth so we would believe he was a wonderful, upright person, we all now know that he was into drugs and pornography and he was a batterer. We saw the true side of OJ, not the side he wanted the public to see.

This is, simply put, IMO, but I honestly believe a lot of people would agree with me.

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II


alien
everyone would not respond to situaitons exactly as you would or as you expect them to. I am sure you understand that.
martin II

Let me add this, even though people may get tired of hearing about my personal experiences.

When my Brother, Dad and Son passed away, my family did the Old Irish thing and had a wake after the funeral. We got drunk, we laughed and told stories about the person who passed on. That helped us deal with the situation at hand. But you can bet that after that happened and we got it out of our systems, our lives were never the same after that. The pain and sadness never goes away. We live our lives respecting that person and thinking of them every day with love and tenderness. We would never even think about making a commercial (like that would ever happen since we aren't celebrities) to make light of what happened to the person that we profess to love.


Having said all that, I am off the board because Mr Alien is home and I want to spend some time with him.

Hope everyone has a good night and I will talk to everyone tomorrow.

:seeya:

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II
bob

simpons cut no cut.

you say simpson bleed every place he went after the murders.

he did drop any blood on the neighbors property when you say he was headed to the fense

he didn't drop any blood when he jumped the fense as you and petrocelli claimed he did

he did not drop any blood walking out of trhe walkway.

he did not drop and blood walkinf up the steps in his house

none in his bed room

none in his bathroom

none in the shower

none in front of his house as he grabbed and loaded his bags.

none in the limo

none in front of the airport

none in the airplane

you are making up stuff to cover the holes in what lapd did.

imo

martin II



martin II, you have things backwards again. The relevant evidence here is where Simpson dripped his blood, not where he didn't drip his blood.

Simpson wasn't continuously bleeding. He had the kind of cut across his knuckle that would bleed, form a temporary clot and stop bleeding, and then could be easily reopened and bleed again. You can't seem to grasp that fact.

The only one making things up are you and nettathirty. You think by avoiding the real evidence that proves Simpson's guilty that it will all go away when you point out the meaningless places that he didn't drip blood. It won't. Criminals are convicted on the evidence they leave, not the evidence they don't leave. Anyone can name a thousand places where Simpson didn't drip blood when his cut wasn't bleeding. Your entire argument is irrelevant and dumb.

bobaugust

[Wukong]

I just had a thought that calls into question the theory that professional hitmen killed Nicole. With all this talk about barking dogs and Hey, hey, hey, I started thinking about the dog barking for a full 5 minutes before Heidstra hears Hey, hey, hey. If the dog is barking we assume the killer(s) is already at work dispatching of Nicole. If Heidstra is correct, the dog is barking for at least a full 5 minutes before Ron shows up. A professional killer would have already killed Nicole long before 5 minutes is up.

Would a professional kill Nicole then hang around while the dog is barking continuously without shuting the dog up? Or would he just leave after killing her and let the dog bark away? Of course no professional is going to hang around that long and just let the dog bark his head off. If the dog is barking that long before Ron shows up this is no professional killer(s).

Wukong

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II


alien
everyone would not respond to situaitons exactly as you would or as you expect them to. I am sure you understand that.
martin II

That is true, people react to grief in numerous ways of every type of variable.

However, how many people do you know that would broadcast a pay-per-view show with the type of segment that he included regarding the Bronco? The fact of the matter is that segment was morally and ethically reprehensible and inexcusable.

It has nothing to do with whether or not he is a murderer of course, it simply speaks volumes of the type of person that he is.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Wukong
I just had a thought that calls into question the theory that professional hitmen killed Nicole. With all this talk about barking dogs and Hey, hey, hey, I started thinking about the dog barking for a full 5 minutes before Heidstra hears Hey, hey, hey. If the dog is barking we assume the killer(s) is already at work dispatching of Nicole. If Heidstra is correct, the dog is barking for at least a full 5 minutes before Ron shows up. A professional killer would have already killed Nicole long before 5 minutes is up.

Would a professional kill Nicole then hang around while the dog is barking continuously without shuting the dog up? Or would he just leave after killing her and let the dog bark away? Of course no professional is going to hang around that long and just let the dog bark his head off. If the dog is barking that long before Ron shows up this is no professional killer(s).

Wukong

Good point, and I have always believed that people are reaching when they want to place the crime with a professional. All of the information shows us that, regardless of if it was OJ, the killings were definitely personal and amatuer.

Can anyone ever recall of hearing about a professional hit in which the victims had so many wounds? I personally cannot, but I am curious if anyone else has an example.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II

The cuts to nicole and the position she was in when she was attacked and the position she was in when her neck was cut, does not put her in a natural position to have her legs tucked under the iron fense as they were found by le and the me. imo


There has been speculation about how her feet got under the fence. Some are of the conclusion that they were forcibly wedged under it, while others are of the conclusion that they wedged themselves if her body went into convulsions while she died.

I do not recall the exact medical terminology, but in the onset of death sometimes the body will go into mass convulsions much like a seizure.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


I just re-read Heistra's testimony & it looks like he might have been across the street after all. He's talking of the alley being elevated & seeing the tiles of Nicole's condo. The alley behind her condo isn't elevated. Lo & behold, we may owe Netta a point for being right this ONCE. Who would have thought?:tongue: Got this from Wagner's site : http://www.wagnerandson.com/oj/what.htm
"HEIDSTRA'S REPORT: Figure 1 shows a map of the immediate vicinity. The neighborhood is cocked at an angle from north, but we will follow the convention there of colloquially referring to the direction toward the top of Figure 1 as "north." Heidstra lives on the north side of Dorothy St. very near to Westgate, which is a block east of and parallel to Bundy. He said that at about 10:15 he left his apartment with his dogs, went to Westgate, then a block north, and turned to go west on Gorham. He went down that into the dogleg of Bundy, but before he got to the straight part of Bundy he heard a dog farther on that alarmed him because it sounded "crazy" and "hysterical." Wanting to avoid an encounter with his own dogs, he backtracked a few yards to an alley (I have called it the "east alley") that would take him back to Dorothy St. without going down Bundy. He went through the alley until he got to a point "exactly opposite Nicole's condo" and their waited to listen to the commotion he could still hear from the street on the other side of the house he was behind.'

I'm still not sure where he was but it still sounds to me like he was behind Nicole's condo.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva
FBG, I just looked at the map again & it appears that Heidstra DOES live across Bundy. I was looking at the map wrong :tongue: Dadgum this hurts -- it appears martin and netta are correct and that I misunderstood the testimony. My bad.

[alien]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


Good point, and I have always believed that people are reaching when they want to place the crime with a professional. All of the information shows us that, regardless of if it was OJ, the killings were definitely personal and amatuer.

Can anyone ever recall of hearing about a professional hit in which the victims had so many wounds? I personally cannot, but I am curious if anyone else has an example.

And isn't it possible that a professional killer would have killed the dog also?

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


satalite views are much more realiable. they are the same everytime you look at it.

not open to mistakes made by people that think they are in one place when in fact they are at another.
martin II There is no reason for you to take a shot at anyone over this. I and socal have both said that we were mistaken in our understanding of which alley Heidstra was on. It's not like we have refused to acknowledge being wrong -- unlike some posters.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


FBG
What hurts???
martin II Having to say you're sorry -- :D

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II
bob

you suggest that simpson cut his hand at bundy when he had ron in a arm lock and his left hand was at rons ear possible in a fist. you don't attempt to analysis this in detail to see exactly how
the glove could have been pulled off, you just say ron must have or maby did this.

he arrives at rockingham and you say he bled outside the gate, others say he bled inside the gate. but you say outside the gate because that is the only way you can support petrocellis theory that oj jumped the gate in the side walkway and this is when the glove must have or maby fell out of the bag.

although he was supposed to have banged up against the wall three times his finger did not bleed in that spot or any other spot as he was supposed to have walked out of tis walkway.

he walkes into the foyer of his house and starts bleeding 2-3 drops there but 1 second later he is walking up the stairs and he does not bleed there, in his bedroom, in his shower. now you say oj must have taken a very quick shower.

he puts on new clothes and comes out to the limo.

since there is no evidence that oj bled while he was handling all those bags for loading into the limo you say he must have been hiding his left hand. no bleeding at the airport you say he must have or proberbly hid his hand from view as he signed autographs.

this cut, to you, seemed to open and bleed one second and two seconds it stops and starts back bleeding a few second later.

This is just too many must have or maby did.



martin ii, you're having a hard time distinguishing facts from supposition, and reality from fantasy.

Lets talk reality.

You're the one who is imagining that Simpson kept a closed fist when he killed Ron, not me. The second by second blow reenactment of the murders is pure imagination. All we know are the results of that fight and the evidence that was found. The fact is that Simpson was cut on his left hand. The fact is that his left hand glove was found on the ground and it didn't have a cut in it. The reasonable conclusion is that Simpson wasn't wearing his left hand glove when he was cut.

Trace evidence found on that glove.
One hair from Nicole Brown.
No hair from Ron Goldman
Fibers with blood on them, consistent with Ron Goldman's shirt.
Fibers consistent with Ron Goldman's jeans.
One "guard hair" from the Akita dog.

You're mistaken again as to what I said about the blood at the Rockingham gate. There was one blood drop just outside the gate and two blood drops just inside the gate. Simpson didn't jump the gate, he scaled his fence.

Simpson didn't hit his finger on his left hand when he fell against the wall, he hit his right shoulder. Sometimes Simpson's finger was bleeding, sometimes it wasn't. Sometimes Simpson most likely dripped blood on natural surfaces and that blood was never found. Sometimes Simpson dripped blood on unnatural surfaces such as cement, metal , wood, and fabric and those blood drops were found.

When Simpson entered his house he dripped blood on his foyer floor. He most likely then went to his laundry room and put his clothing in his washing machine before going upstairs to shower. There was blood seen on a light switch cover near the laundry room but never collected.

After Simpson became aware of his cut he was careful not to do anything to reopen it to bleed. Yes, he easily kept it out of sight. That's really not to hard to do, you could probably do the same thing. When he signed autographs he held what ever he was signing with hs life hand, his left knuckle could not be seen. You could even do that.

The cut would bleed, form a temporary clot and stop bleeding, be easily reopened and bleed again. The process was random based on what Simpson did to cause the cut to open and drip blood after it had formed a temporary clot.

There are a lot of "maybes" because there is so much evidence. The evidence Simpson left is what proves his guilt. We don't know nor do we have to know how or what he did to cause his cut to bleed, the relevant fact here is that his blood was found everywhere he went after the murders. Where he didn't drip blood is irrelevant.

bobaugust

[alien]

Originally posted by nettathirty


alien:

That photo is a courtesy of Mr Bob August!

OJ knew about the murders, so it didn't come as a surprise to him.
OJ probably knew the murderers or why the murders happened.
The Bronco chase was staged, and OJ was never going to committ suicide.


Ojs personality-

OJ left the hospital after his 2 year old daughter drowned in the family pool from his first marriage. He went to a bar and dranked, instead of being home with his family. I assume OJ is not the type to deal with things that are unpleasant, are be in an environment that is not upbeat and somewhat festive!

imo

I realized after my post that the pictures were from bobaugust's site.

How do you know that OJ knew about the murders? And that the Bronco chase was staged. You did speculate that OJ knew the murderers or that they were going to happen. If so, why didn't he try to prevent it from happening?

The last part of your post shows exactly the kind of person that OJ is IMO. Very self centered.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by fbgweezer


I'm still not sure where he was but it still sounds to me like he was behind Nicole's condo.


fbgweezer, Heidstra was in the alley behind the houses across the street from Bundy.

When Heidstra stopped and listened to the voices he said he heard coming from Nicole's condo he was at a higher elevation than Nicole's house and could see the roof of Nicole's house between the houses blocking his view. If those houses weren't there he would have been able to see the front of Nicole's condo.

bobaugust

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by bobaugust



fbgweezer, Heidstra was in the alley behind the houses across the street from Bundy.

When Heidstra stopped and listened to the voices he said he heard coming from Nicole's condo he was at a higher elevation than Nicole's house and could see the roof of Nicole's house between the houses blocking his view. If those houses weren't there he would have been able to see the front of Nicole's condo.

bobaugust thanks bobaugust -- I finally figured out that I'd stopped with "behind" and never abosrbed the "across" --

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II



so if heidstra is correct about the time of 10:40 hearing the hay hay hay. that voice may not have been ron's

martin II


martin II, your reasoning is flawed and doesn't make any sense.

If Heidstra heard Ron yell at Simpson at about 10:40. and then some five minutes later saw Simpson's Bronco speed away from Bundy that's completely consistent with when Heidstra said he arrived back home.

October 25, 1996 Robert Heidstra

Q. Did you have any opinion as you saw the vehicle speed away, whether
it appeared like the person was in a hurry?
A. Oh yes. It was -- must have been in a hurry; it sped away fast.
Q. Can you tell us about what time it was when you made that
observation?
A. It must have been around 10:40, 10:45, in between. No more than
10:45, for sure. It would be a little before, maybe.
Q. Little before 10:45?
A. Yeah.
Q. But in the area of 10:40 to 10:45?
A. Exactly, yeah.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


satalite views are much more realiable. they are the same everytime you look at it.

not open to mistakes made by people that think they are in one place when in fact they are at another.
martin II


martin II, satellite views have limitations. They do not show differences in elevations nor do they show what someone's view would be on the ground.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by socaldiva


I'm curious. What is this "guard hair" from the dog? Why is it referred to that way?


socaldiva, Guard hairs are the longest, thickest hairs in a mammal's coat, forming the topcoat (or outer coat). They taper to a point and protect the undercoat from the elements. They are often water repellent and stick out above the rest of the coat. Guard hairs add the sheen to the coat of an animal.

bobaugust

[Wukong]

Martin,

A few things:

1) I answered Caphills post as did Bob. It is obvious that Caphill is stuck in place and has not read what either of us wrote. The fact is that the blood had degraded. Just to back that up, DNA testing was performed on the scrapings from Nicole's fingernails and ONLY Nicole's DNA was found. That should have ended the debate but Caphill now contends that there was one red blood cell that belongs to someone else. I contend that is quite improbable.

2) I posted a thought about professional killers that you seemed not to have grasped, as evidenced by some of your subsequent comments. If, as you say, the dog got out while the killers were disposing of Nicole (which you say was 1 1/2 minutes) then why would they hang around for 3 1/2 more minutes, before Ron showed up, with the dog barking like crazy? They would have killed the dog or left. Professionals are not going to hang around with a barking dog bringing attention to a murder if they were waiting for Ron (the real target according to some).

3) There is no reason to go getting all cocky just because you read a few pages of testimony. This is not becoming.

Wukong

[RainStorm]

Originally posted by caphill


*snip*

To put this discussion to rest, is there scientific data that a AB type red blood can have a A antigen just disappear. Matheson seemed to think that only an A antigen could degrade and B antigen could not. I challenge anyone to find the scientific data to support his statements.



The prosecution answered this challenge by reading into the record a passage from "Forensic Science Handbook" by Richard Saferstein. Apparently, at that time, this book was renowned for being the bible on it's subject.

The passage read by Matheson said:

"The A isoenzymes are the least stable and the C isoenzymes the most stable, thus one might expect the A bands in BA and CA types to be lost before the B or C bands are lost and this in fact has been observed."

So there is scientific documentation and data to support Matheson's explanation that the blood under Nicole's nails was her own blood, type BA that had degraded to B. That plus all the other indications that it was in fact her own blood.

RainStorm

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II
netta

Different people heard the dog barking at different times and at different places.

I think the dog barked sometimes at one location. stopped barking, moved to another location and started barking again. etc.

This would account for some people hearing and others not hearing the dog bark at different times.

Each person felt that the dog barked non stop but that was only when the dog was near them. i think the dog barked the most when he was on Bundy.

side issue
Heidestra said when he was midway in the east alley, the Akita AND the black dog were barking at the same time and he heard the hay hay hay even though the dogs were barking loudly .

i don't think the hay hay hay was rons voice at all because the dog was already in the street barking at about 10:25 - 10:35 according to heidstra and the dog could have been in the street barking before heidstra got to bundy.

:shrug:
martin II



martin II, your opinion about the the dog barking, then stopping for a while, and then barking again are contradicted by the witnesses who said once the dog started barking it continued to bark. No witness ever said that the barking stopped and then started again. Five witnesses who were outside never heard any dog barking at the time two witnesses in their houses thought the barking started. All of the witnesses who heard the dog bark described it the same way. Loud, unusual, stange, confused, panicking, high barking, nonstop barking, persistant,at a significant pitch, a plaintive wail.

Your opinion about the "hay, hay, hay" (like in a barn) doesn't make any sense and is contradicted by Heidstra's testimony.

It seems that you will use any excuse, ignoring testimony, fantasizing what no one said, and using faulty reasoning based on not understanding what witnesses actually said, only to offer a contrary opinion.

Your opinions are incorrect and funny.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by caphill





Did Cellmark do the DNA testing of Nicoles fingernail scrapings? Did the Cellmark expert testify regarding the DNA from the fingernail scraping? Is so can someone direct me to that expert testimony.


caphill, the results from DNA testing. Item No. 84, PCR testing, Nicole. 1/2,500.

May 11, 1995 Dr. Robin Cotton

MR. CLARKE: With regard to no. 84-a the left nail clippings and scrapings, did you test that particular item?
DR. COTTON: Yes, we did.
MR. CLARKE: And did you observe that or was it tested using PCR?
DR. COTTON: Yes, it was.
MR. CLARKE: With what results?
DR. COTTON: We are now on 84-a?
MR. CLARKE: Yes.
DR. COTTON: Okay. The results from the PCR testing on 84-a are consistent with Nicole Brown Simpson and exclude Ronald Goldman and Mr. Simpson.
MR. CLARKE: All right. And that was at again six genetic markers?
DR. COTTON: That's right.

***
MR. CLARKE: Does that mean, Dr. Cotton, that you obtained the exact same results for 84-a as you did for 84-b, the clipping?
DR. COTTON: It does.
MR. CLARKE: And then lastly, with regard to this item, 84-b, referring your attention to the right scrapings, did you also test those using PCR?
DR. COTTON: Yes, we did.
MR. CLARKE: With what results?
DR. COTTON: They are consistent with Nicole Brown and Mr. Simpson and Mr. Goldman are excluded.
MR. CLARKE: And were these the exact same results as in the earlier two nail clippings and scrapings results?
DR. COTTON: They are.

bobaugust

[bandit's mom]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nettathirty
[B]


Socal,

I have always said OJ visited the crime scene. I believe OJ was the source of the bloody shoe print. However the shoe he wore to Bundy probably wasn't a Bruno Magli, it could have been any number of shoes with the shoe sole..

OK, I'll bite. What possible reason would he "visit" the
crime scene and then leave, and go on about his business,
leaving the mother of his children with her head almost
cut off, lying in her own blood for his own children to potentially stumble upon?

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


bob

This is a message board. the purpose of the board is to allow posters to post any opinion that have about and case listed.
There are no rules governing what type of opinions should be posted as long as the opinions are posted according to the tos of the board.

No one is required to get in line and belive everything you say is fact.

I think you should try to remember that.
Martin II


martin II, this is a discussion group about the Simpson case. Some people post opinions based on false and misinformation either out of either ignorance or on purpose to get other posters to respond to them.

You can post any opinion you want, but when that opinion is based on false and misinformation there is no rule that says I can't point that out and tell you why your opinion is incorrect.

Unfortunately you post so much false and misinformation that once in a while I express my opinion about your postings as funny. I do find it funny that even when your false information is corrected you never admit to your mistakes and sometimes even continue to post the same false information. Credibility evidently doesn't mean as much to you as your opinion. I guess that's one of the biggest difference between us

bobaugust

[fbgweezer]

*Snipped*Originally posted by martin II
No one is required to get in line and belive everything you say is fact. I think we all want everyone to post their views/theories/beliefs but those need to be backed up with some type of credible proof.

[bandit's mom]

Originally posted by alien


And isn't it possible that a professional killer would have killed the dog also?

There's no question.

[bandit's mom]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wukong
[

Would a professional kill Nicole then hang around while the dog is barking continuously without shuting the dog up? Or would he just leave after killing her and let the dog bark away?

Neither, he'd kill the dog. A professional also would in all likelihood not use a knife, guns are far more efficient.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II



fbg
credible proof

example only

Parantis(sp) first says he drew 8cc blood

cochran says blood is missing.

prosecution says WHAT!!! talk to parants about what cochran is claiming.


Paritis interviewed by prosecution again. paritis now says i may have drawn less than 8cc

cochran says he is not being truthful.

proseuction says he made a "mistake" in his first testimony

i belive Paritis my opinion

you belive cochran you opinion

whoes opinion is correct.

Martin II



Martin II, Peratis only estimated the amount of blood he drew from Simpson. After the defense jumped on his estimation trying to use it as a literal fact Peratis explained that his estimation was wrong and that when he testified he never thought about being more accurate since no one in the past ever told him he didn't draw enough blood.

The defense tried to argue that there was missing blood from Simpson's sample and that blood was planted. Every claim of blood planting was proved false. There was no missing blood and there was no blood ever planted

If you believe Peratis like you claim, then you believe that he only estimated the amount of blood he drew.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II

The answer may be in wagner and or W C Dears book
martin II


martin II, no the answer is not in Wagner's articles or in Dear's book.

There is only one answer to the question if Simpson went to Bundy, why did he leave Bundy without notifying the police about the murders of his wife and someone else, and why did he leave his two small children sleeping in their rooms to awaken and find their slaughtered mom?

The answer is because Simpson was the killer.

bobaugust

[fbgweezer]

*Snipped* Originally posted by martin II
credible proof.. . . . .whoes opinion is correct. I don't think it is that cut and dry. A reasonable person looks at the situation and listens to the testimony. When questioned, Peratis said he didn't measure how much blood was withdrawn because there was no need. Okay, I can see how that would happen, so when he said he could have taken less, I believe it to be a plausible statement. Now, for the defense to then imply that "someone" stole the blood and spread it around the crime scenes to implicate Orenthal is not credible because there is no proof that that happened. Yet, it does not stop the NGs from repeating it over and over as fact. It is not fact -- it is a theory that is not supported with credible evidence.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II

The answer may be in wagner and or W C Dears book
martin II or the moon or the stars? :D

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II



Brett cantor.



martin II :confused:

[fbgweezer]

*Snipped*Originally posted by martin II
which opinion is based on credible proof? Mine of course -- you have no credible proof that more blood was taken.

I bet even you have retold events and changed your telling of them. I doubt that if you refine/clarify your memory of an event, that I would call you a liar. I don't mean critical details like whether or not you were present, but a detail like the tiny amount of blood that was alledged to have been missing is silly.

Now if I can prove with credible evidence that you have refined/clarified your statement and it is lie, then that is a different story. The fact of the matter is, Peratis did not measure the blood and it didn't matter because contrary to the ridiculous story the defense tried to argue, there was and has been no credible proof that blood was planted.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II

fbg
bandit was suggesting that professionals mostly use guns.
i was saying "brett cantor" as he was killed with a knife almost exactly like nicole.

martin II No way! Are you telling me Orenthal James Simpson murdered Brett Cantor too? Because that's who killed Nicole Brown.

[bandit's mom]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bobaugust
[B]


martin II, no the answer is not in Wagner's articles or in Dear's book.

There is only one answer to the question if Simpson went to Bundy, why did he leave Bundy without notifying the police about the murders of his wife and someone else, and why did he leave his two small children sleeping in their rooms to awaken and find their slaughtered mom?



You know I haven't been around here long, but it's quite obvious
to me that both of these posters are just agitating. I don't
think either of them really beleive OJ is innocent. When
someone asks a legitimate question, they throw out nonsense
about the answer being found in Wagner's article, or toss
out "Bett Cantor" as it that has any connection. I think
the reason they do that is clear. They don't have answers
and they don't really believe in his innocence either.

Really, even the defense team, for all their love of fantasy
and ridiculous theories, never came up with the absurd
idea that OJ would discover the murders and then go on
about his business. Or if they did, they had better sense
than to try to float it, even with that moronic jury.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by bandit's mom
[You know I haven't been around here long, but it's quite obvious to me that both of these posters are just agitating. You've got them pegged.

[fbgweezer]

*Snipped* Originally posted by martin II
cantors name was mentioned as it is widely suspected that the mob killed cantor because of his involvement in drugs and he was killed with a knife the same way as nicole. I've googled and searched for information on Cantor's death and get only cursory news articles -- none of which say he was murdered by the mob. Please give your link to that statement.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

another example.


i am not talking about what the defebse said le did with the blood

just the fact that he changed his testimony when the issue was discussed.
****
you and i heard both testimnonies. from a neutral position.

there is really no proof of what he drew because no record was made at the time he drew the blood.

it is up to both of us to listen to both of his testimonies.

your opinion is that he is telling the truth

my opinion is that he is not being truthful.

which opinion is based on credible proof?
martin ii


martin II, the opinion that Peratis is telling the truth is more credible.

For someone to be accused of lying they have to be contradicted by credible evidence or credible testimony. No witness ever contradicted what Peratis said. There was no evidence ever presented that contradicted what Peratis said. He made a mistake and he corrected his mistake. That's not a lie.

It seems if a witness testifies to facts that contradict your beliefs and opinions then you accuse the witness of lying. That's really lame, martin II.

Peratis's testimony is supported by credible proof. The proof that no blood was ever planted in this case. Every claim of blood planting was proved false.

bobaugust

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


It is difficult to find. i think it is because le did not give the media any info.
tazzy has also looked for articles in major media with no results.

last week i posted some info from a site that listed suspects for
two unsolved cases in CA. The cantor case was one of them. you can go back and find it if you like.
martin II No, I don't think that's how it works. You make a statement about the mob killing but I go find your backup -- uh, no. You need to post your link to YOUR statement that Cantor was murdered by the mob for drugs.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by nettathirty
MartinII

Estimation works in favor of the Prosecution!

Amount of drawn blood
Time dog started barking LOL . . .

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


:confused: :confused: :shrug:

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


bob
take it easy

i was trying to discuss another issue with fng.
Paritis was used only as a example. not what the defense said he did or did not do.
so take a chill pill for a moment. if you can.

martin II


martin II, maybe you should pick your words a little more carefully and I won't have to respond to correct your mistakes.

bobaugust

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by nettathirty
And? I'm not sure where you are going with this. Peratis said he estimated. All allegations of blood planting were proven to be false.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by nettathirty



MartinII

Estimation works in favor of the Prosecution!

Amount of drawn blood
Time dog started barking


nettathirty, estimations are only approximations. The real amount and the real times all work in favor of the truth.

bobaugust

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by nettathirty
Gladly Socal;

The subject dealt with NO evidence of someone other than Oj and the 2 victims at Bundy. I simply said with the Cantor case still unsolved, that could mean NO evidence of the killer was found at the scene! I think you should not say there was no evidence of the killer at the Cantor murder scene since you do not know that as a fact and cannot support the statement.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by nettathirty



Gladly Socal;

The subject dealt with NO evidence of someone other than Oj and the 2 victims at Bundy. I simply said with the Cantor case still unsolved, that could mean NO evidence of the killer was found at the scene!


nettathirty, your statement is false.

Just because a case is unsolved doesn't meant there is no evidence, only that the killer could not be identified.

A lot of cases are not solved and sometimes later when new cases are solved and the evidence from an unsolved case matches the killer of the more recent case, then the old case is closed.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


bob
you are out of socket today.
now you are acting like kta. now you are telling me that i should pick other words to use in my post to please you.

I don't know about you.
MARTIN II


martin II, I know this may strange to you, but if you try using the actual facts instead of making things up your postings might have some credibility. Only a suggestion.

bobaugust

[fbgweezer]

*Snipped*Originally posted by nettathirty
If Peratis estimated the amount of blood at 8cc and actually drew 8cc of blood. What happened to the other 2cc of blood, it didn't evaporate? Since there is no proof of anything else happening to "extra 2cc" of blood, you have your answer -- Peratis estimated wrong.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


netta
I think that a cop that had been on the force as long as Vanhatter, that had not learned how to drop a few drops of blood without leaving proof that he did it, should have been fired a long time ago.
martin II

:)


martin II, funny. A guy like Vannatter understood that EDTA preserved blood can be distinguished from blood coming out of someone's body.

Besides the fact no one had any of Simpson's fresh blood to plant before all of the blood was collected from both crime scenes.

Your comments may have been meant to be facetious but they're based on your ignorance of the facts again.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by nettathirty



Bob,

You can prove that Vannatter knew, what you claim about his knowledge of EDTA?


nettathirty, yes, Vannatter knew about preserved blood.

You guys love to throw out all kinds of unsupported accusations about the police and none of them turn out to be true.

March 21, 1995 Vannatter

Q DID YOU HAVE ANY ICE OR REFRIGERATION EQUIPMENT
WITH YOU?
A NO. I KNEW THERE WAS PRESERVATIVE IN THE VIAL
WHEN THE BLOOD WAS DRAWN.
Q HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT? DID YOU TEST IT?
A NO, BUT I KNOW THAT VIALS THAT ARE USED BY THE
POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR BLOOD SAMPLES CONTAIN PRESERVATIVE.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by nettathirty



New Rule:

When posting trial transcript, you must post the cross examination!



nettathirty, that's funny. You asked a question and I answered it by posting Vannatter's testimony.

You don't make the rules. If you and martin II want to read any cross examination of testimony I post then feel free to go search for it and do your own posting. That's why I always include the date of any testimony I post. Be sure to do the same.

If you want to read Darden's cross examination of Vannatter pertaining to Vannatter's testimony about Simpson's blood being preserved, find it yourself.

bobaugust

[alien]

Originally posted by socaldiva


It's funny that you consider Bob posting actual trial testimony to be "a game".

Is his game like football or baseball?

[alien]

This board seems to have no activity.

Mr Alien is home from work with some kind of weird tummy ache. I am going to spend time trying to nurse him.

Ya'll have a good night and hope to "chat" with you tomorrow.

Ciao :seeya:

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


netta
I think that a cop that had been on the force as long as Vanhatter, that had not learned how to drop a few drops of blood without leaving proof that he did it, should have been fired a long time ago.
martin II

:) And where do you think that blood came from that LE dropped BEFORE Orenthal gave blood? Do you also think Vannatter wore Orenthal's BM's, gloves and cap while doing it?

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by nettathirty



New Rule:

When posting trial transcript, you must post the cross examination! Nah -- let's do this one first: When making a statement as fact, post corroborating link(s).

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II



NETTA
if one ask for a link after EVERY posters post, one would be getting free links from the work done by other posters for their library of informaiton. Without any work on their part. Thats pretty slick imo
martin II

Then why do you always ask other posters for links Martin?

You would be a good person to debate with if only you would heed your own advice.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II



NETTA
if one ask for a link after EVERY posters post, one would be getting free links from the work done by other posters for their library of informaiton. Without any work on their part. Thats pretty slick imo martin II LOL -- you who are always asking for someone to post a link -- LOL. I don't think it should be after every post but I do think when a poster says, ". . . NO evidence at the Cantor scene. . ." then they need to corroborate that with a link. Otherwise, we can assume that one again, the poster is making wild speculations and that needs to be identified.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


see wagner
martin II Nah, I read the trial transcripts -- facts. Wagner is supposition/speculation/fantasy.

[fbgweezer]

*Snipped*Originally posted by martin II
i think. LOL -- you're kidding, right?

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Nah, I read the trial transcripts -- facts. Wagner is supposition/speculation/fantasy.

fbg

i am sure you believe the trial trascripts 100% so more luck to you.
martin II

[martin II]

fbg

when Heidstra heard the hayhayhay voice at 10:40 p. whoes voice was that?
martin

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

i am sure you believe the trial trascripts 100% so more luck to you.
martin II I accept as fact those statements and/or evidence that can be corroborated/substantiated. I accept as speculation/theory those statements and/or evidence that can be logically concluded to be plausible. I accept as fantasy those statements that are made using innuendo and distortions of fact.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II
fbg

when Heidstra heard the hayhayhay voice at 10:40 p. whoes voice was that?
martin I believe it was Ron.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I believe it was Ron.

i don't want to assume anything so who did the gate belong to that heidstra heard?
martinII

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


i don't want to assume anything so who did the gate belong to that heidstra heard?
martinII I believe Heidstra heard Nicole's gate

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I believe Heidstra heard Nicole's gate

fbg

do you belive that nicole was being killed at the front steps of her condo when ron arrived

and that it took about 1 1/2 minutes for the killer to kill both of them?
martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

do you belive that nicole was being killed at the front steps of her condo when ron arrived

and that it took about 1 1/2 minutes for the killer to kill both of them?
martin II I believe that the attack on Nicole had already started (Kato barking before Heidstra heard, "Hey, hey, hey."). I believe Orenthal incapacitated Nicole and attacked Ron when Ron surprised him by walking though a gate that Orenthal had opened with Nicole's missing keys. I originally thought that Orenthal had gone to spy on Nicole because he was p*ssed from the earlier snubs but I have come to realize that he went there to murder her. The exactness of how many minutes/seconds it took for Orenthal to commit the murders is moot. There is credible proof that he had the time to commit the murders. There is proof that he wanted to harm her. There is proof that he had the means to harm her. There is proof that he was at the murder scene the night the murders were committed. In the 10+ years since the murders, there has not been one shred of credible evidence to disprove Orenthal James Simpson was not the murderer of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Kayleighjo
Okay, was someone other kta banned because all of a sudden a bunch of pages have been removed from this thread. Are you hearing the music from the "Twilight Zone"? LOL

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Kayleighjo
A bunch of netta and martin's postings were deleted.

??? anyone heard from netta today?

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I believe Orenthal incapacitated Nicole and attacked Ron when Ron surprised him by walking though a gate that Orenthal had opened with Nicole's missing keys.


fbgweezer, basically I agree with your beliefs except for one thing.

In your scenario you have Simpson opening Nicole's front gate with her keys and entering.

All of the evidence tells us Simpson parked his Bronco in the alley behind Nicole's condo.

What makes you believe that when Simpson arrived at Bundy and parked his Bronco in the alley that he would walk back out of the alley, down Dorothy St. to Bundy St. and then down Bundy to Nicole's front gate when he could have easily used the key to open the rear gate and simply walk down the walkway to get to the front of her condo?

bobaugust

[martin II]

Originally posted by bobaugust



fbgweezer, basically I agree with your beliefs except for one thing.

In your scenario you have Simpson opening Nicole's front gate with her keys and entering.

All of the evidence tells us Simpson parked his Bronco in the alley behind Nicole's condo.

What makes you believe that when Simpson arrived at Bundy and parked his Bronco in the alley that he would walk back out of the alley, down Dorothy St. to Bundy St. and then down Bundy to Nicole's front gate when he could have easily used the key to open the rear gate and simply walk down the walkway to get to the front of her condo?

bobaugust

bob

i agree
whatever time oj arrived at the condo he parked in the east alley
behind her condo and entered through the back walkway.

what is your best estimate as to the time oj is said to have
attacked nicole?

[fbgweezer]

*Snipped*Originally posted by bobaugust
What makes you believe that when Simpson arrived at Bundy and parked his Bronco in the alley that he would walk back out of the alley, down Dorothy St. to Bundy St. and then down Bundy to Nicole's front gate when he could have easily used the key to open the rear gate and simply walk down the walkway to get to the front of her condo? I'm not sure why exactly I believe that is what happened. Maybe because that was what he'd done in the past -- lurked around to spy through her front windows. I also keep going back to the knife on the kitchen counter -- Maybe Nicole heard something out back and 'scared' him to the front? I don't know. If I accept the barking dog to be the start of the attack on Nicole, and the voice saying "hey, hey, hey" to be Ron's, then the front gate had to have been opened before he (Ron) got there.

Since there were no other gate keys found outside, do we know if the gate needed a key from the inside to open?

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snipped* I'm not sure why exactly I believe that is what happened. Maybe because that was what he'd done in the past -- lurked around to spy through her front windows. I also keep going back to the knife on the kitchen counter -- Maybe Nicole heard something out back and 'scared' him to the front? I don't know. If I accept the barking dog to be the start of the attack on Nicole, and the voice saying "hey, hey, hey" to be Ron's, then the front gate had to have been opened before he (Ron) got there.

Since there were no other gate keys found outside, do we know if the gate needed a key from the inside to open?

fbg

that is the question i asked you two days ago.


many have said that nicole,

1. expecting rom to arrvie, was attemping to go out to unlock the
gate in advance when oj grabbed her.

2. that ron arrived at the gate, buzzed nicole ( she was not able
to buzz the gate to unlock from the kitchen) and nicole was
going out to open the gate and oj grabbed her.
How did ron get the gate open to come in.

This still leaves the gate locked. right?
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
anyone heard from netta today?

fbg

oh how sweet. you miss him don't you?
martinII

[fbgweezer]

*Snipped* Originally posted by martin II
[B]that is the question i asked you two days ago.
__________________________________________________

what is the question you asked me two days ago?
__________________________________________________
many have said that nicole,

1. expecting rom to arrvie, was attemping to go out to unlock the
gate in advance when oj grabbed her.

2. that ron arrived at the gate, buzzed nicole ( she was not able
to buzz the gate to unlock from the kitchen) and nicole was
going out to open the gate and oj grabbed her.
How did ron get the gate open to come in.

This still leaves the gate locked. right? [QUOTE]
I really don't care what "many" have said. My theory is that Orenthal opened the gate with Nicole's missing keys. She may have heard that and walked out front where he attacked her -- I don't know. But I do not believe a woman would put a kitchen knife out on a counter, run bath water, unlock a gate to a busy street. This makes no sense to me.

[alien]

Originally posted by Kayleighjo
Okay, was someone other kta banned because all of a sudden a bunch of pages have been removed from this thread.


When did kta get banned and for what reason.

I swear sometimes I think I am hallucinating because every time I get back on "board" there are pages missing.

It would be nice if the moderator would let us know what is going on.

[martin II]

Originally posted by alien



When did kta get banned and for what reason.

I swear sometimes I think I am hallucinating because every time I get back on "board" there are pages missing.

It would be nice if the moderator would let us know what is going on.

alien

how is Mr alien?

didn't you ask this question about kta the day the moderator posted a post here?

martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


But, how would it have remained open? Wouldn't it have closed behind him when we stepped forward to get Nicole?

Perhaps because she didn't know precisely when Ron would show up & he couldn't buzz her (I think I recall the buzzer being broken?) and she wanted to take a bath, she put something there to prop open the gate. Not so that it was visably open, if you know what I mean. Like a little piece of cardboard, something along those lines? Just a guess.... Do we know if it automatically locked when it closed?

I think the knife on the counter and the earlier upsetting call with Orenthal contradicts her unlocking that gate. I don't think she would have been walking around eating ice cream, lighting candles and preparing for a bath knowing that that gate was unlocked. And if she was waiting on Ron, she could have easily stood watch at her window and gone out whenhe walked up.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snipped* what is the question you asked me two days ago?
__________________________________________________
many have said that nicole,

1. expecting rom to arrvie, was attemping to go out to unlock the
gate in advance when oj grabbed her.

2. that ron arrived at the gate, buzzed nicole ( she was not able
to buzz the gate to unlock from the kitchen) and nicole was
going out to open the gate and oj grabbed her.
How did ron get the gate open to come in.

This still leaves the gate locked. right? [QUOTE]
I really don't care what "many" have said. My theory is that Orenthal opened the gate with Nicole's missing keys. She may have heard that and walked out front where he attacked her -- I don't know. But I do not believe a woman would put a kitchen knife out on a counter, run bath water, unlock a gate to a busy street. This makes no sense to me.

fbg
two- three days ago i asked you how did ron get in the gate.

why would oj park in the alley next to the back gate and not use the keys you said he had to open the back gate. if he did have the keys?
i suggest you give it some more thought.
martin II

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II


bob

i agree
whatever time oj arrived at the condo he parked in the east alley
behind her condo and entered through the back walkway.

what is your best estimate as to the time oj is said to have
attacked nicole?

Oh my goodness, I really am hallucinating. Martini said he agreed with bob. He even said that OJ "arrived" at the condo".

I will try to be more serious from no on.

[alien]

Originally posted by alien


Oh my goodness, I really am hallucinating. Martini said he agreed with bob. He even said that OJ "arrived" at the condo".

I will try to be more serious from no on.

Posting to myself. I meant to say Martin11

[martin II]

Originally posted by alien


Oh my goodness, I really am hallucinating. Martini said he agreed with bob. He even said that OJ "arrived" at the condo".

I will try to be more serious from no on.

alien

Not so fast.
read my post again.

do you know for a fact what time oj arrived at the condo. Please be exact as possible.
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by alien


Posting to myself. I meant to say Martin11

alien



"Martini" said he

whats on your mind?
MARTIN ii:beer:

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Kayleighjo


You know what Martin, Hotwater zapped a bunch of your postings so it's clear she's not happy. Kepp it up why don't you so that you can get banned and reincarnate yet again.

I agree.

Hotwater went on a limb and gave us a chance with this board and all some individuals seem content to do is take advantage and watch it sink until we are left with no where to post. That would be a shame.

If Martin spent half as much time working on his own issues as he spends digging into other posters then we may have a functional and intellectual debate forum.

[martin II]

ALIEN

Did oj arrive before the muders or after?
martinII

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II


alien

Not so fast.
read my post again.

do you know for a fact what time oj arrived at the condo. Please be exact as possible.
martin II

bob
i agree
whatever time oj arrived at the condo he parked in the east alley
behind her condo and entered through the back walkway.

martin, this is what my eyes read. My interpratation was that you were agreeing with bob and agreed that OJ arrived (was at the condo). Was I that wrong?

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by alien



When did kta get banned and for what reason.

I swear sometimes I think I am hallucinating because every time I get back on "board" there are pages missing.

It would be nice if the moderator would let us know what is going on.

kta appears to have banned for using a word to describe how she felt about the way that jurors viewed Nicole Brown.

I find it a sin and a shame, considering the fact that a man who blatantly states that a woman deserved her beating at the hands of her husband (RayRaytwo/Martin II to Kayleigh) is allowed to post nonsense on an hourly basis.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


I don't know if it automatically locked when it closed. I guess I'm assuming it did & I shouldn't assume anything.

I thought of the same thing: why leave the gate unsecured if she got an upsetting call from Orenthal?

I can not imagine Orenthal parking in the alley & walking around the corner to enter on Bundy. I think it was far too risky. I think he entered the back. Wouldn't it have been riskier for him to have been parked right behind Nicole's?

[fbgweezer]

*Snipped* Originally posted by socaldiva
I don't know if it automatically locked when it closed. I guess I'm assuming it did & I shouldn't assume anything.
If it automatically locked, then how was it open when the bodies were found?

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by socaldiva


I don't know if it automatically locked when it closed. I guess I'm assuming it did & I shouldn't assume anything.

I thought of the same thing: why leave the gate unsecured if she got an upsetting call from Orenthal?

I can not imagine Orenthal parking in the alley & walking around the corner to enter on Bundy. I think it was far too risky. I think he entered the back.

Oddly enough, I hadn't given much thought to which direction OJ entered from. But I would think that you have an excellent point regarding entrance from Bundy being too risky. The street was apparently known to remain busy at all hours of the day and night.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Not to me. The risk of himself or his car being spotted on Bundy would have been greater.

After all, he did park back there & no one reported seeing him or the car......Even Heidstra doesn't see what is assumed to be the Bronco til he reached the intersection of Bundy & Dorothy.

If per chance the Bronco would have been spotted, he could have just b.s'd & said it wasn't his car, or the witness must have mistaken the day etc. He seemed to do a lot of that on other issues. But...he wasn't spotted. Okay -- that makes sense. Now let ask this: If he was going there to hurt her, why would he park behind her condo and alert her that he was there? He knew that she'd called the police on him in the past and I believe their animous had reached such a proportion that she would have again.

[martin II]

Originally posted by alien


bob
i agree
whatever time oj arrived at the condo he parked in the east alley
behind her condo and entered through the back walkway.

martin, this is what my eyes read. My interpratation was that you were agreeing with bob and agreed that OJ arrived (was at the condo). Was I that wrong?

alien

whatever time = does not mean before the murders.
martin II

[fbgweezer]

*Snipped* Originally posted by socaldiva
As for the gate being left open & the automatic lock, I think we were talking about 2 different things somewhat. I wasn't saying that I thought it would automatically close after you entered, but that it wouldn't require a key to lock it. I think it would be locked, you'd get buzzed in & the gate would remain in a locked position after you enter & closed it. bobaugust, wukong -- someone help us out here. I remember the guy who found the bodies being questioned about the gate by MC and when asked, he said he did not see the gate. To me this meant that it was not closed. Also, had the gate been closed, wouldn't there have been something in the police reports about gaining access to the property because the gate was closed and locked like at Rockingham?

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II
ALIEN

Did oj arrive before the muders or after?
martinII Duh -- he brought the knife so it would had to have been before.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snipped* If it automatically locked, then how was it open when the bodies were found?

fbg

that is ONE of the reason wagner says the killerS left by the front gate to a van that drove them from the crime scene.
martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


But I don't dispute the gate being open after the murders. I'm sure it was. Again, we are talking about locking & automatic closure, two different things. I think that Ron opened it, was attacked & it was never closed. It remained open. imo Oh, I wasn't arguing with you. LOL -- I was hoping to clear up my own questions.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


But I don't dispute the gate being open after the murders. I'm sure it was. Again, we are talking about locking & automatic closure, two different things. I think that Ron opened it, was attacked & it was never closed. It remained open. imo then what do you think Heidstra heard when he said Nicole's gate banged?

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snipped* bobaugust, wukong -- someone help us out here. I remember the guy who found the bodies being questioned about the gate by MC and when asked, he said he did not see the gate. To me this meant that it was not closed. Also, had the gate been closed, wouldn't there have been something in the police reports about gaining access to the property because the gate was closed and locked like at Rockingham?

fbg

when the dog brought the man to the scene he stood on the sidewalk and looked right into nicole on the ground. so the gate was open
martinII

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

that is ONE of the reason wagner says the killerS left by the front gate to a van that drove them from the crime scene.
martin II IF Orenthal wouldn't park out front because he didn't want to be seen going in, why do you think a van load of killers would pile into a van out front of a place where they had committed a double murder and a dog was wailing?

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


No, I didn't think you were arguing at all. Doesn't it make sense that it LOCKS automatically, after you are buzzed in? Different than CLOSING automatically. Maybe I need another nap. I think it makes sense. :D Yes that does make sense but then what did Heidstra hear?

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by socaldiva


I think she would have called LE too, if she had known he was out there. I don't think she would have heard him park back there. I think it's far enough from the front of the house, that you wouldn't hear it.

As for the gate being left open & the automatic lock, I think we were talking about 2 different things somewhat. I wasn't saying that I thought it would automatically close after you entered, but that it wouldn't require a key to lock it. I think it would be locked, you'd get buzzed in & the gate would remain in a locked position after you enter & closed it.



socaldiva, I've always speculated, speculation based on the facts we know, that by 10:30 Nicole's bath was ready and she decided not to wait for Ron to arrive.

The evidence is that the gate release button on her intercom in her kitchen was not working, so she walked outside barefoot accompanied by her dog to unlatch the front gate so Ron could let himself in. There is no evidence that Simpson alerted Nicole in any way what his intentions were when he called at about 9:00 to speak to Sydney. I believe he was just confirming the fact that she would be at home. Simpson had already planned out what he wanted to do at that time. He had already changed his clothing wearing the dark colored sweat suit.

Nicole went to the front gate and unlatched it so Ron could open it from the outside. On her way back to her front door she encountered Simpson who had parked his Bronco in the alley and made his way down the walkway. As they talked Simpson let his dog out the gate. He only had to open it enough so the dog could run out, that's what all male dogs do when given the opportunity. When it closed it still remained unlatched.

bobaugust

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
then what do you think Heidstra heard when he said Nicole's gate banged?
fbg

It is thought that ron came to the gate, looked, saw nicole and oj.

ron says hay hay hay. how did ron get into the gate so that it would slam?????
martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


The back gate when OJ leaves. Ahh -- maybe so. I had this scenario in my head where Ron walks up, Kato is barking at Orenthal, Orenthal has started the attack on Nicole, Ron sees someone standing over Nicole and yells hey, hey, hey as he runs through the gate. I'd always assumed that was the gate that made the noise.

[martin II]

bob

so you believe that nicole had already been spooked about the noise in the back so much that she took out a knife in the kitchen.
then saw oj in the front yard in black suite. cap maby knife in hand, watched as oj open the gate and let the dog out. had a conversation and did not flee back inside?
martin II

[fbgweezer]

*Snipped* Originally posted by bobaugust
The evidence is that the gate release button on her intercom in her kitchen was not working, so she walked outside barefoot accompanied by her dog to unlatch the front gate so Ron could let himself in. I'm a female and maybe I see things differently than you. Nicole was very concerned about the missing keys. Family and friends said Nicole was very security conscious and kept the house locked and secured. I do not see where any female would unlatch a gate to a busy street (because that would also mean that she would leave her front door open because she would be in the bath) -- I bet if you take a vote, the majority of women would tell you no way. And the majority of them do not have a psycho, abusing, stalking ex-husband.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
IF Orenthal wouldn't park out front because he didn't want to be seen going in, why do you think a van load of killers would pile into a van out front of a place where they had committed a double murder and a dog was wailing?

the van could have been parked down the street. the whole thing
only too a few minutes right?
martin II

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by socaldiva


The back gate when OJ leaves.


socaldiva, Heidstra said he heard Nicole's front gate slam.

Heidstra said that first he heard a young male voice yell "Hey, hey, hey!" and then an older male yell back. Some seconds later he heard Nicole's front gate slam.

My speculation, when Simpson yelled back at Ron he moved to attack him. Simpson was bigger and stronger than Goldman and he was armed with a knife in a small enclosed area. Ron would have no chance. I speculated that Ron turned and pushed the gate open to get outside and where he could run or fight. Simpson grabbed Ron from behind. As Ron was pulled back in, he could have been holding onto the gate pulling it closed and causing it to slam hard enough to not latch but bounce back open when he let go of it.

Is this a realistic possibility? Maybe. No one knows what actually happened but if anyone can come up with a different scenario that fits what Heidstra said he heard and fits what other witnesses said I'd be interested in reading it.

bobaugust

[martin II]

fbg

the next question is:
oj was suppose to have arrived at bundy at 10;30p

when found, the dog had blood on his belly and paws. indicating that he had MABY sat on his belly by nicole for some minutes or sat down in the scene for a few minutes. this was after the gate slam 10:40 pm and the murder.

heidstra said the dog was on bundy barking at 10:35. i assume near the condo or near bundy and gorham where heidstra was at 10:35.

when did the dog walk down Dorothy st near Storfer's house?
they heard the dog barking at 10:20 latest. stein that lives next to nicole in the east alley said she heard it at 10:15.

martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by bobaugust



socaldiva, Heidstra said he heard Nicole's front gate slam.

Heidstra said that first he heard a young male voice yell "Hey, hey, hey!" and then an older male yell back. Some seconds later he heard Nicole's front gate slam.

My speculation, when Simpson yelled back at Ron he moved to attack him. Simpson was bigger and stronger than Goldman and he was armed with a knife in a small enclosed area. Ron would have no chance. I speculated that Ron turned and pushed the gate open to get outside and where he could run or fight. Simpson grabbed Ron from behind. As Ron was pulled back in, he could have been holding onto the gate pulling it closed and causing it to slam hard enough to not latch but bounce back open when he let go of it.

Is this a realistic possibility? Maybe. No one knows what actually happened but if anyone can come up with a different scenario that fits what Heidstra said he heard and fits what other witnesses said I'd be interested in reading it.

bobaugust

bob
Ron, some how held on to the gate?? then slammed it so hard that heidstra heard it in the east alley behind the house BUT THE GATE DID NOT LATCH???
Martin II

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


when found, the dog had blood on his belly and paws. indicating that he had MABY sat on his belly by nicole for some minutes or sat down in the scene for a few minutes. this was after the gate slam 10:40 pm and the murder.

heidstra said the dog was on bundy barking at 10:35. i assume near the condo or near bundy and gorham where heidstra was at 10:35.

when did the dog walk down Dorothy st near Storfer's house?
they heard the dog barking at 10:20 latest. stein that lives next to nicole in the east alley said she heard it at 10:15.

martin II


martin II , Stein's estimate was not very reliable. Stein said she heard dogs barking, not one dog. Stein said she was lying in bed and only estimated what time she heard the barking start as about a half an hour before Karpf got home. She said Karpf told her he got home about 10:45. That's how she arrived at 10:15. I certainty can't and I know of no one that can estimate when 30 minutes goes by especially lying in bed trying to sleep. Her estimate is not very reliable.

Storfer's testimony, as Wukong says is troubling. Even though his clock was not set correctly he supposedly took that into account. But again clock times are not real times. Storfer proves that with his testimony. Who knows if the difference in time was what he thought it was.

Storfer says that he heard loud, persistent barking at 10:20 from inside his house. Pilnak and Telander were not far down the street outside on that quiet still night at 10:20 and they never heard any barking at that time.

Mandel and Aaronson were walking outside towards Nicole's condo at 10:20 on that quiet still night, and they never heard any barking at that time.

Heidstra was walking his two dogs going towards Nicole's condo at 10:20 on that quiet night and he never said that he nor his dogs ever heard any dog barking at that time.

Storfer told how after he heard the dog barking from inside his house that it was so loud and persistent he was afraid it would wake his son up. He said he then went to bed but he "slept very lightly because the dog continued to bark,"

Based on what Storfer says he heard, it's the same thing that Heidstra said he heard. But Heidstra was outside and closer to the dog than Storfer was making Heidstra's time estimates more reliable than Storfer's. Pilnak, Telander, Mandel and Aaronson all testified to facts that are consistent with Heidstra's testimony, not Storfer's.

You think the dog got blood on it's belly from lying in blood for a few minutes. The dog could have been splashed with blood when it walked through it or it may very well have lied down but as to a few minutes there is no evidence of that. It may have only been seconds.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


bob
Ron, some how held on to the gate?? then slammed it so hard that heidstra heard it in the east alley behind the house BUT THE GATE DID NOT LATCH???
Martin II


martin II, that's correct the gate did not latch.

I don't know what your life experience is with gates but some gates can be slammed shut so hard that they do not latch and hold they bounce back. That's what very well could have happened at Bundy. When the bodies were discovered the gate was open.

bobaugust

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II


alien

how is Mr alien?

didn't you ask this question about kta the day the moderator posted a post here?

martin II

martin,

Mr Alien is feeling much better. Thanks for asking.

I am not sure about your second question in this post. I remember asking about another poster who was banned and the moderator let us know about it. I just wonder why they don't let us know each time. I am a NOSY ROSY kind of person.

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II


alien



"Martini" said he

whats on your mind?
MARTIN ii:beer:

It was a type-o kind of thing.

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II
ALIEN

Did oj arrive before the muders or after?
martinII

Consideing the fact that I think OJ is guilty, I'm going with "before".

[alien]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Well I would have asked, but I forgot :mad: I'm glad he's feeling better :D

Thanks. Not sure what the deal was, but he has had health issues in the past so every time he gets sick, I get a little stressed.

I told Mr Alien he better hang around for a very long time. :)

[Wukong]

Don't worry, I heard Aliens live for a long, long time:)

Let's see who can guess what Netta's new Nic will be. The last two were Netta30 and Nettathirty. I'm not sure I'm any good at this because I was thinking rayray would become rayrayray (Sort of like hayhayhay).

My guess is: Netta31 (not too creative but I see a pattern)

Wukong

[martin II]

Originally posted by Wukong
Don't worry, I heard Aliens live for a long, long time:)

Let's see who can guess what Netta's new Nic will be. The last two were Netta30 and Nettathirty. I'm not sure I'm any good at this because I was thinking rayray would become rayrayray (Sort of like hayhayhay).

My guess is: Netta31 (not too creative but I see a pattern)

Wukong

wukong

netta was banned???
martin II

[alien]

Originally posted by Wukong
Don't worry, I heard Aliens live for a long, long time:)

Let's see who can guess what Netta's new Nic will be. The last two were Netta30 and Nettathirty. I'm not sure I'm any good at this because I was thinking rayray would become rayrayray (Sort of like hayhayhay).

My guess is: Netta31 (not too creative but I see a pattern)

Wukong

Thanks Wukong for the encouraging words. Mr Alien is a very special guy.

:)

I noticed that martin asked you about netta getting banned. I know about kta, but not netta. When did that happen? I am concerned that the moderator is going to get a little frustrated and close down this board and I would hate to see that happen.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I accept as fact those statements and/or evidence that can be corroborated/substantiated. I accept as speculation/theory those statements and/or evidence that can be logically concluded to be plausible. I accept as fantasy those statements that are made using innuendo and distortions of fact.

fbg

that sounds logical.

example

when Mazolla first testified she said she HAD put her initials on ALL of the envelopes that included samples she handeled as a means of personal identification.

In a later testiomony when the defense lawyer presented her with all of what was suppose to be the same envelopes and her initials were NOT on any of them, she was asked WHY this was.
she responded. i don't know.

later on she then changed her original testimnony and said i must not have put my initials on any of them.

Now, if one is inclined to believe all of the prosecutions witnesses, one would just say, oh, she was just mistaken about what she was doing/did when she processed the samples.

if one is on the jury and hears her say that she does not know what happened or that there is no explination for her initials NOT
now being on the samples and simply says, well, i must have been mistaken, could you as a jury member believe that it was possible that samples could have been tampered with?
martin II

[martin II]

bob

Possible mob motive for wanting nicole killed.

if oj was deelpy involved in the mob operated sports gambling business for some time and nicole had been very concerned that if there was a big bust, their lives would be turned upside down and this would effect their life directly.

That she was on oj constantly to stop and oj finally told the mob that he was out because his wife was causing him trouble about his involvement. That they said no way you can you quit. That the mob then decided that nicole was at the root of the problem and that she should be eliminated.
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by bobaugust



martin II, that's correct the gate did not latch.

I don't know what your life experience is with gates but some gates can be slammed shut so hard that they do not latch and hold they bounce back. That's what very well could have happened at Bundy. When the bodies were discovered the gate was open.

bobaugust

bob
ron , being grabbed and cut by a killer was able to hold on to a gate that he slammed so hard that it bounced back open and heidstra heard it from behind the house across the street?

ron must have had exceptional concentration skills.
martin II

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II


bob
ron , being grabbed and cut by a killer was able to hold on to a gate that he slammed so hard that it bounced back open and heidstra heard it from behind the house across the street?

ron must have had exceptional concentration skills.
martin II

Good morning, martin.

I would think it might just be a reflex action rather than concentration.

[martin II]

Originally posted by alien


Good morning, martin.

I would think it might just be a reflex action rather than concentration.

alien
in a fight for his life with a killer , he was able to hold on to a gate.
martin II

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II


alien
in a fight for his life with a killer , he was able to hold on to a gate.
martin II

I guess since I have never been in a fight for my life I can't be specific. However, I would think that a person my do some strange things in that situation.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by bobaugust
socaldiva, I've always speculated, speculation based on the facts we know, that by 10:30 Nicole's bath was ready and she decided not to wait for Ron to arrive.

The evidence is that the gate release button on her intercom in her kitchen was not working, so she walked outside barefoot accompanied by her dog to unlatch the front gate so Ron could let himself in. There is no evidence that Simpson alerted Nicole in any way what his intentions were when he called at about 9:00 to speak to Sydney. I believe he was just confirming the fact that she would be at home. Simpson had already planned out what he wanted to do at that time. He had already changed his clothing wearing the dark colored sweat suit.

Nicole went to the front gate and unlatched it so Ron could open it from the outside. On her way back to her front door she encountered Simpson who had parked his Bronco in the alley and made his way down the walkway. As they talked Simpson let his dog out the gate. He only had to open it enough so the dog could run out, that's what all male dogs do when given the opportunity. When it closed it still remained unlatched. Here are my questions:

1. Nicole decided that Ron's was either not coming or was going to be delayed enough to allow her time for a bath and she began to prepare the bath.

2. Could Ron have possibly called her to say he was on his way. Although I don't know why she wouldn't have let the water out of the tub if she knew she wasn't going right in. I would have drawn a warm bath later when I was actually taking my bath.[/I] I believe she went downstairs to get her ice cream to bring up to the bath.

3. Music, candles, ice cream and warm bath -- sounds like she really, really needed to destress. This is one of the reasons that I believe it was Orenthal on the phone earlier that upset her so much. It is also why I don't believe she would have left the gate open.

4. I believe she heard something outside that drew her to go out the front door -- Maybe Kato was already out? Could have thought,"Oh, that must be Ron at the front gate." or "I need to let Kato back in before I go upstairs." I've accepted the assertion that Orenthal entered through the back gate - the arguments for that happening make sense.

5. Evidence is that Nicole was attacked first and that the dog started barking before the "Hey, hey, hey." After Nicole being knocked to the ground, could Orenthal have been at the gate trying to get Kato out when Ron came up?

[alien]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Here are my questions:



5. Evidence is that Nicole was attacked first and that the dog started barking before the "Hey, hey, hey." After Nicole being knocked to the ground, could Orenthal have been at the gate trying to get Kato out when Ron came up?

Good morning to you weezer.

I think this is one aspect of the case that we will never really know the answer to. We know about the dog barking and the "Hey, hey, hey". My thoughts are that Ron might not have yelled out at OJ at the gate letting the dog out because OJ may have just been visiting Nicole. However, if Ron came upon the scene of OJ attacking Nicole (hitting her unconscious) he would have yelled and then opened the gate (we have to believe that the gate was able to be opened). Is it possible that Kato ran out to let someone know? Dogs are really smart and he may have been trying to alert someone to come and help.

Tis a mystery, isn't it?

[fbgweezer]

*Snipped*Originally posted by alien
My thoughts are that Ron might not have yelled out at OJ at the gate letting the dog out because OJ may have just been visiting Nicole. However, if Ron came upon the scene of OJ attacking Nicole (hitting her unconscious) he would have yelled and then opened the gate (we have to believe that the gate was able to be opened). Is it possible that Kato ran out to let someone know? Good morning. Hope Mr. Alien is still on the mend.

Remember though, Orenthal was dressed in black, had on the knit cap and gloves -- Cochran may have been wrong -- Orenthal with a hat may not have still been Orenthal with a hat. Walking into that scene in the dark of night, Ron probably didn't recognize the figure to be Orenthal.

[alien]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snipped* Good morning. Hope Mr. Alien is still on the mend.

Remember though, Orenthal was dressed in black, had on the knit cap and gloves -- Cochran may have been wrong -- Orenthal with a hat may not have still been Orenthal with a hat. Walking into that scene in the dark of night, Ron probably didn't recognize the figure to be Orenthal.

Very sweet of you to ask about Mr Alien. He is back to his normal self again. Like I said before he had some health issues so I tend to stress when he doesn't feel well. He is one of the most important people in my life and I want him around for a very long time. Thank you so much.

You make a very valid point. That why I said it was a mystery. Do you think that Ron recognized OJ because his face wasn't hidden. Was there any light at all? Of course, I suppose that if Ron came upon the scene, it would not matter who was attacking Nicole, he would still react.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Here are my questions:

1. Nicole decided that Ron's was either not coming or was going to be delayed enough to allow her time for a bath and she began to prepare the bath.

2. Could Ron have possibly called her to say he was on his way. Although I don't know why she wouldn't have let the water out of the tub if she knew she wasn't going right in. I would have drawn a warm bath later when I was actually taking my bath.[/I] I believe she went downstairs to get her ice cream to bring up to the bath.

3. Music, candles, ice cream and warm bath -- sounds like she really, really needed to destress. This is one of the reasons that I believe it was Orenthal on the phone earlier that upset her so much. It is also why I don't believe she would have left the gate open.

4. I believe she heard something outside that drew her to go out the front door -- Maybe Kato was already out? Could have thought,"Oh, that must be Ron at the front gate." or "I need to let Kato back in before I go upstairs." I've accepted the assertion that Orenthal entered through the back gate - the arguments for that happening make sense.

5. Evidence is that Nicole was attacked first and that the dog started barking before the "Hey, hey, hey." After Nicole being knocked to the ground, could Orenthal have been at the gate trying to get Kato out when Ron came up?

fbg

no 5

nicole on the ground out cold. she has not been cut as yet and there is no blood.

oj at gate putting the Akita out as ron arrives. someone says hay hay hay. and gate slams. dog is out on bundy barking.

problem is no one has been cut when the dog is put out but the dog has blood on his paws and belly when he is out barking.
martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

no 5

nicole on the ground out cold. she has not been cut as yet and there is no blood.

oj at gate putting the Akita out as ron arrives. someone says hay hay hay. and gate slams. dog is out on bundy barking.

problem is no one has been cut when the dog is put out but the dog has blood on his paws and belly when he is out barking.
martin II Evidence shows that the gate was open and that the pawprints trailed up and down the walk -- from the body to the sidewalk and back. If the dog was barking at the attack on Ron, since the attack took place next to the fence along the sidewalk, would it sound like the dog was in the street?

[alien]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Good Morning all,

I think Orenthal had already begun the attack on Nicole & she was already down when Ron arrived. Otherwise it would have it would have been more difficult to control 2 people at once & there would have probably been more noise. jmo

Good Morning. Hope you are having a nice sunny morning.

I think you are correct on the attack on Nicole and the noise that would have been made. I posted earlier that I thought Nicole was unconcious. And to add, I don't think that Nicole would have been much of a match for OJ.

[fbgweezer]

*Snipped* Originally posted by socaldiva
I think Orenthal had already begun the attack on Nicole & she was already down when Ron arrived. Otherwise it would have it would have been more difficult to control 2 people at once & there would have probably been more noise. jmo I agree. I'm just wondering if maybe he was struggling to get the dog out the gate and away from the attack.

Here's a thought. Maybe it wasn't the gate slamming shut but rather the fight starting against it? You know, like when you run into the gate and it makes that noise.

[alien]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snipped* I agree. I'm just wondering if maybe he was struggling to get the dog out the gate and away from the attack.

Here's a thought. Maybe it wasn't the gate slamming shut but rather the fight starting against it? You know, like when you run into the gate and it makes that noise.

Going with that thought. What if OJ had already lost the one glove and the dog bit him as he was struggling to get the dog out? What if the dog got the glove off? But, I suppose that there would be bite marks on the glove. However, aren't dog bites pretty nasty?

I would agree that a person being pushed against a fence with a lot of force would make a noise on the fence. And maybe it caused it to swing open and then slam shut.

I really hate to leave this discussion, but I have to get some sleep for my overnight shift. I will check back tonight for posts.

Ya'll have a wonderful day. The sun is shining bright here and I hate to miss it, but Old Grandma Alien has to have her beauty sleep. Okay, there isn't that many hours to make that happen, but I can hope. ;)

See ya later. :seeya:

[martin II]

Originally posted by alien


Good morning to you weezer.

I think this is one aspect of the case that we will never really know the answer to. We know about the dog barking and the "Hey, hey, hey". My thoughts are that Ron might not have yelled out at OJ at the gate letting the dog out because OJ may have just been visiting Nicole. However, if Ron came upon the scene of OJ attacking Nicole (hitting her unconscious) he would have yelled and then opened the gate (we have to believe that the gate was able to be opened). Is it possible that Kato ran out to let someone know? Dogs are really smart and he may have been trying to alert someone to come and help.

Tis a mystery, isn't it?

alien
consider this:

nicole and ron already murdered and killers leave the gate open.

The Akita come from the house , sees nicole,tracks in blood and goes out the open gate to bundy barking confused.

heidstra hears the dog barking in the street about 10;35

dog is in the middle of the street in the way of a passing car and the driver yells hay hay hay. (heidstra hears this) 10;40

the man that lives next door to nicole that was at his mail box getting his mail see the Akita in front of his house acting out of control and he retreats beck inside his yard and slams the gate (heidstra hears this)

chris darden said there were 56 homes in that block with metal gates.
martin II

[fbgweezer]

*Snipped*Originally posted by socaldiva
[B]". . . but I don't think you'd have to struggle to get the dog out of the gate. Most would welcome getting out. . ." B] I think I must not be making myself clear. I don't think he would have to fight Kato to get him out the gate but with the dog barking, I guess I assumed that he would be moving around also -- jumping at, etc. I can't let he dog in the house or he'll wake the kids so I go for the gate. These are only thoughts as to how the gate was opened when Ron got there since I can't reconcile myself to Nicole unlocking that gate and going in to take a bath.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Sorry, it might be me.:tongue:

I see what you mean. I've never had an Akita, so I don't know if they are typically "jumpers" when they are excited & barking. The other thing I am trying to say is that I don't believe Orenthal would be strolling down the walkway to get Kato out of the gate and if Ron walked up on a figure dressed in black and Kato barking the loud persistent wail, I can imagine Ron being caught off guard and shouting, "Hey, hey, hey."

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Evidence shows that the gate was open and that the pawprints trailed up and down the walk -- from the body to the sidewalk and back. If the dog was barking at the attack on Ron, since the attack took place next to the fence along the sidewalk, would it sound like the dog was in the street?

the gate was open after the murders.
the distance from the street to the gate is about 10 feet. count the tiles in the picture. the man next door SAW the dog in the street.

martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
The other thing I am trying to say is that I don't believe Orenthal would be strolling down the walkway to get Kato out of the gate and if Ron walked up on a figure dressed in black and Kato barking the loud persistent wail, I can imagine Ron being caught off guard and shouting, "Hey, hey, hey."

fbg

the distance from nicole to the gate is only about 4-5- feet
oj would not have to stroll
martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


But my recollection of the layout is that the gate was "right there" so to speak. Orenthal wouldn't have to go "down a walk way" to get the dog out. I didn't mean to infer that there was a long walkway, I only meant that he would have been moving toward the sidewalk with Kato barking and possibly not wanting to go out the gate.

Okay -- I'm sure everyone is done with remedial fbgweezer and the gate. LOL

[bandit's mom]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Thankfully, I've never had a psycho, abusing, stalking ex-husband, but I would leave my gate unlatched for a short period if I had an Akita to bark and alert me. You could leave the front door closed, but unlocked. I don't know what I would do if I did have the afore-mentioned husband though.

Same here, I have an ex-husband, but he remains a good
friend. I actually live in a condo with a front courtyard
and gate and I have a large dog, although unlike an Akita,
mine is a Collie, definitely not a guard dog. I often leave
my gate unlocked if I am expecting someone. Wouldn't really
think twice about it. Actually the only time I really worry about
locking it is if I'm leaving the house.

Of course, like you, I have never lived in fear of an ex. But,
I still have to question that to some degree. Yes, Nicole knew
that OJ was spying on her and that he could be violent. But
would she honestly believe that the man she loved most
of her adult life, the father of her children, would be skulking
around planning to murder her? I would think it more likely
that she would be frightened that if t