General Case Discussion: OLD THREAD [Archive] - Page 2

bobaugust

04-13-2006, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

when j cochran put on the cap and said who am i. that simple demonstration said a lot.

all of nicoles neighbors knew oj. knew eaxctly what he looked like
and knew that a white bronco parked a few blocks from nicoles house belonged to OJ.

if oj had put on a knit cap and a neighbor had seen him the neighbor would have said hi oj.

rayraytwo, that's funny. rayray falling for Cochran's complete bull crap. It seems you're as naive as the jury was.

When Simpson put that knit hat on it was at night and dark. Anyone who may have seen a large man dressed in all dark colored clothing with a knit hat on his head at night in the dark shadows of Nicole's walkway would not be able to tell what kind of hair that man had or if had any hair at all. They could not positively have identified Simpson. That's why a criminal wears a hat, for disguising who they are.

I bet you fell for Cochran's other bull crap statement that his leather golf gloves don't shrink after he sweat in them or they get wet. Right, ray?

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-13-2006, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
paulas and ojs relationship was not as serious as m clarke and others have tried to make it

if it was serious why did she immediately after leaving the message hop a plane and go to los Vegas to see another man?

rayraytwo, because she broke up with him in the message she left.

Here's that handicap of yours again. Since you know practically nothing about what witnesses said in their depositions or in the civil trial, you are at a loss trying to comprehend what happened. Nobody knew about that dear john message Paula left on Simpson's cell phone message center at the time of the criminal trial except Simpson, Paula, and possibly Cochran. It was only learned when she gave her deposition before the civil trial.

Simpson lied and Cochran lied when he told the jury why kill Nicole? Simpson wasn't obsessed with Nicole, he had Paula.

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-13-2006, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob,
The book version of this trial (IMO) was pretty much tailored for the view point of it's intended reader.. Depending on the author the book wasn't very fair to the other side, or it only told that sides version... imo

Nettathirty, I quoted you facts of what happened, not opinions.

The fact is that Cochran lied to the criminal trial jury.
The fact is that Simpson lied to the civil trial jury.

bobaugust

2L8 4A D8

04-14-2006, 01:45 AM

Originally posted by fbgweezer

Going to have to disagree with your assessement of Rosey. He should never have chosen to take the devil's side. He knew the truth but kept quiet and I am not convinced it was because he was a minister. MOO

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Rosey was between a rock and a hard place. I think he did the right thing considering the position he was in. On the other hand, if anybody took the devil's side and came out smelling like a rose was AC Cowlings.

JMO and MOO

bobaugust

04-14-2006, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

bob

as i have said before i have read testimony from all of the important witnesses and posted some of this testimony just as you have. so i don't know why you continue to try to say i have not read testimony and you are the only one that has.

it is just that when you post testimony you give only the part that
supports what you belive happened.

rayraytwo, of course I post the testimony that supports the fact that Simpson was the killer. There is no testimony that supports the belief that he wasn't the killer. If you think there is, you post it. Prove me wrong.
.
Yes, you have posted some testimony. And some times you have posted testimony out of context so it didn't accurately reflect what is being said. But the fact is that you know nothing about the depositions or the civil trial testimony or Simpson's lies. You've closed your mind and your eyes to it. Your mind clamped shut after the criminal trial verdict.

That's why you didn't know about Paula's break up with Simpson and the the lies that Cochran and Simpson told.

bobaugust

Wukong

04-17-2006, 10:09 AM

Welcome back! I hope everyone who celebrates Easter had a good holiday.

Wukong

bobaugust

04-17-2006, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i don't know why you say i did not know about paulas breakup with oj as that was one of the most often used reasons given for
'DRIVING' oj off the edge. MOST EVERYONE KNEW THAT.

I read the civil trial testimony just like you did. Looking at the trial
and how the judge handcuffed the defense by not allowing much of their argument and how Petrocelli tossed up any theory he could think of and yes the pressure on the jury to massage the american publics desire for a liable verdict there was no way that the results could have been different. even if oj had not told what you call gross lies. the paula call means nothing other than that she called. actually oj was use to her tantrams when she did not get her way. she quickly realized the folly of her DUMPING him and came and stayed by his side when he was in jail.

you may belive that you are the only person on this thread that can read but it is not true.

rayraytwo, it seems you knew something no one else did. At the time of the criminal trial the only thing the prosecution knew was that Paula was in Las Vegas on June 12th and wasn't answering Simpson's many calls to her that day. Ten of them.

The prosecution didn't know that Paula had left a long dear john message on Simpson's cell phone message center breaking off their relationship. Cochran told the criminal trial jury, "One of the most outrageous things I heard yesterday was this wild speculation that O.J. Simpson had some kind of falling out with Paula Barbieri on that Sunday. Where is the evidence of that? That is preposterous."

Your comments that you read the civil trial testimony is funny, especially when you say that "even if oj had told what you call gross lies, the paula call means nothing other than she called."

Simpson didn't tell "gross" lies, your words not mine, he told demonstrative lies. He lied about not receiving Paula's dear john message even when he was confronted with his own telephone records showing the time he made a call to his message center and listening to her message. He lied when when he was confronted with Dr. Lenore Walker's notes that she made when she interviewed him for hours and he had told her he listened to Paula's message and what Paula said in it. Evidently you didn't read those transcripts, right ray?

The truth came out in Paula's civil trial deposition.

Cochran lied to the criminal trial jury and Simpson lied to the civil trial jury to hide this fact because it was so incriminating. In the past when Simpson had problems with Nicole he had Paula to go to. On June 12th Simpson had problems with Nicole only Paula wasn't three to help him.

When the opportunity came at 8:00 that night and Simpson learned he would be alone the next three hours before leaving for the airport , he still couldn't reach Paula to talk him out of his revengeful plan on Nicole.

bobaugust

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 12:32 PM

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 12:36 PM

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
Originally posted by Kate Sachel

Are you aware that Michelle stated later on that she herself almost got beaten by OJ that night because at one point he thought she was Nicole and he grabbed her (Michelle) by the hair and threw her over his shoulder until she yelled "OJ, I'm not Nicole, I'm Michelle"?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

link please

I cannot provide a link to a book.

I can, however, provide you the book information which is "Raging Heart" by Sheila Weller.

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kate Sachel

I cannot provide a link to a book.

I can, however, provide you the book information which is "Raging Heart" by Sheila Weller. [/QUOTE

when you made your statement you stated it as if it was fact. now i understand this was not testimony but the opinion of a writer.
thanks

It is not the opinion of a writer, and I'm not certain how on earth you can even construe it as such.

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
at some point when oj and nicole were not togeather oj and paula started a ralationship.

oj and niciole got back togeather and oj dropped paula.

nicole and oj broke up and oj and paula were back togeather.

paula became angry because oj would not take her to the recital and she 'DUMPED ' oj. she went to los vegas the same day to be with another man.

oj went to jail and paula was there every day to see him until sometime after the trial.

does this sound like either were really serious about a relationship.

I would suggest that you argue your point with OJ Simpson ... he is the one who testified under oath that he and Paula were very serious with one another. OJ can then tell you personally one of two things: 1.) That he was very serious with Paula or 2.) That he lied under oath

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kate Sachel
[B]
or that paula was not as serious as he thought she was.

If you insist on going that route then I would refer you to the deposition of Paula in which she testified that she loved him and wanted to start a family with him. She testified that she and OJ had talked about it and agreed to "filling the house with babies" and spending the rest of their lives together.

Again, OJ would be able to tell you only one of the two things that I mentioned.

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Are you asking me if I thought, OJ was going to kill himself?

Not for 1 second was he going to kill himself or flee during the Bronco Chase...

Netta,

Under oath OJ testified that he was suicidal and having thoughts of killing himself.

Apparently he was either too much of a coward to follow through or realized that it was not the appropriate route to go since he made it out of the Bronco alive.

Kate

bobaugust

04-17-2006, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Are you asking me if I thought, OJ was going to kill himself?

Not for 1 second was he going to kill himself or flee during the Bronco Chase...

Nettathirty, you say you don't believed Simpson was going to kill himself.

American Tragedy,

One officer pulls his radio out if its leather holster and speaks into it. Other policemen are now downstairs. "He's not here," the cop says. "Is he down there?"

One cop asks Kardashian who else is present on the property. He mentions Cowlings. His stomach hurts.
"I don't see A.C.'s Bronco," he manages, hoping to sound helpful. "It's possible...." He stumbles. "It's possible that A.C. took O.J. in the Bronco with him."

Next he and the others were herded to a room on the second floor and told not to leave. The house was sealed off. Professionally, he understood this. In their place, he would have done the same thing. He heard more police arriving and the clatter of a helicopter overhead. Shapiro, calm and thoughtful as always, offered a detective his thoughts on where Simpson might be. Kardashian ahd some ideas as well. Simpson might be headed for the USC campus or the Bel Air Church, Kardashian said. Both lawyers seemed genuinely surprised, Baden thought.

Nicole Pulvers, Kardashian's assistant comes into the room and says quietly, "Telephone, Robert." Her voice has and edge.
"I can't talk now."
"It's your sister," Pulvers says firmly. She won't go away. It isn't like her to be pushy. Kardashian leaves the room and takes the call.
"I shot myself in the head," Simpson rasps into the phone, "but I didn't die." Kardasian surmises he calling from A.C.'s Bronco.
Kardashian can't tell if this is a joke. Did the gun not fire -- or is O.J. trying to be funny? A lot of strange humor has passed between the two friends over the years.
Simpson tells Kardashian that a minute earlier he had held the gun against his head and pulled the trigger. The pistol malfunctioned. Nothing happened. It isn't comedy.
"Where are you?" Bob asks.
"At the Bel Air Church."
As casually as he can manage, he asks, "Are you doing it there?"
"Nah, what a mess this is, right?" Simpson sounds oddly elated.
"The police are here." Kardashian looks over his shoulder to see if anyone is listening.
"All right. I'm going over to Nicole's now."
He has no idea what this means. To see the crime scene? To join her in death?
"Okay, I'll talk to you later." Kardashian adds desperately. "I love you."
Kardashian puts down the phone. As he walks back to the room where the police officers are he says to himself. If they ask who I was taking to, I have to tell them. But the cops never ask.

bobaugust

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

if she had plans to make babaies and have a long life with oj, why did she throw that tantram about not going to the recital and flee to another man?

have you considered that the testimony she gave was to show that oj was happy without nicole and was planning a good life with her?

I can't believe you even have to ask that question but you have and I will give you my response.

OJ apparently kept Paula on the line for quite some time. We are aware that he continued to see Paula while attempting to reconcile with Nicole. In addition to the recital issue, it has been testified to that Paula had also run out on OJ at a party the very night before the recital because he would not stop talking about Nicole.

For myself, if I and the man I love were talking about babies and spending our lives together and then I was told that I was not welcome as an open part of his life and additionally found out that he did still love his ex-wife then I would hit the highway as fast as the wheels would take me away.

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

and a few days later when he was put in jail, if you are like paula, you would be by his side daily until after the trial. right?

If I were coerced then absolutely. Additionally, if I truly loved that man and thought that he had just come close to killing himself then also absolutely.

If the case weren't so serious I would laugh at the fact that this whole thing played out more eerily and with more coersion than any government scandal I've ever researched.

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

OJ's attorneys were hoping for 2 outcomes:

1. It would create such a media Frenzy, that they couldn't possibly find a jury that wasn't familiar with the case..

2. Potential jurors would sympathize with a fallen suicidal(sp)Football Legend who had come to the end of his road...

I'm not saying he lied about his attempt at suicide. I'm saying they created a situation and allowed everyone to draw his or her own conclusions...

(imo) (moo)

I'd agree with the idea that after he realized he wasn't crossing the line to Mexico that he played out the story in an attempt to gain the sympathy of America.

bobaugust

04-17-2006, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob,
American Tragedy was a book written about his trial.. Bob, this has nothing to do with you sir, but my opinion of the books written in this trial adds nothing to what we didn't already know..

Nettathirty, American Tragedy wasn't written only about the trials it was written about the Simpson defense. Maybe you should try reading it, you might learn something.

"This book is a factual account of the defense of O.J. Simpson in his criminal trial and the civil action that followed, and is directly based on personal interviews, documents, court transcripts, and other material I obtained while researching this work. More than three dozen people involved in the two trials were interviewed, nineteen face to face, in 240 separate conversations. Nine subjects sat with me for more than fourteen hours each. The transcripts of my interviews total more than 23,000 pages.

The information for this book comes from the collected memories of those interviewed and from my own observations since the early days of the case. As I have noted elsewhere in this book, I began my formal interviews in September 1995. In most cases the people I interviewed kept personal notes and diaries from the first days of their involvement in the case, and their memories were supported by these notes and other written material.

Quotations form interviews have received limited editing merely to ensure a smooth transition form spoken to written form. Trial transcripts and other printed material have also been edited to a very limited degree, and I have tried to include the usual convention of ellipses and brackets wherever possible. When any editing has been done, no material changes in meaning have been made. Quotation marks are sometimes used where conversations have been reconstructed from memory. In such instances, at least one of the participants has confirmed the substance of the conversation. On occasions when I have described conversations of which the memory of one participant may differ from others' in a material respect, the substance has been confirmed by a number of those present.

Since this is a book about the Simpson defense, I have not attempted to interview the prosecution team in the criminal trial, some of whom have published or will publish their own goods and would have been understandably reluctant to share sensitive strategies with me. Lawrence Schiller"

bobaugust

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

it has beeen reported that oj and nicole had a standing agreement not to bring their lovers around each other when the kids were prsent. it seems that when oj told Paula that she could not go to the recital. he was trying hold up his part of this agreement with nicole. Paula may have been trying to force the issue, oj refused to buckle under to her and she threw another tantram and ran away.

I guess I'm missing the point here.

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Funny this coming from you. When you sight OJ's behavior as being uncharacteristic in nearly most of your post...

From OJ's interaction with his kids, to his retrieval of his GOLF Clubs from the airport... You seem to think you know or knew how OJ should have reacted, not us...

Regardless, I believe that no one comprehends how you wait two days to see your children when their mother has just been brutally slain.

It's an act of selfishness for certain and beyond that ... who knows.

2L8 4A D8

04-17-2006, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by Kate Sachel

It is not the opinion of a writer, and I'm not certain how on earth you can even construe it as such.

Kate,

To keep from pulling your hair out by the roots, whenever RR2 requests a "link," just ignore it as he does when you request a "link" from him. I think all of us have learned (ad nauseum) to take it with a grain of salt.

JMO and MOO!!

bobaugust

04-17-2006, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

NO, Thank you!!!

NOT 1 Book answers the following question..

1. Who called Police, at 10:30pm on the 12th about 2 dead bodies in W. LA?
2. Why was there NEVER EVER an explanation of NBS neighbor, Tom Lange and the activity he witnessed about 10:05p...
3. OJ cell phone records were displayed during the trial, yet calls made after the 10:03p call to Paula was blacked out. The book never explain who OJ talked too..
4. The Nissan driver that Shively witnessed OJ nearly hitting, your book doesn't MENTION this person, or even addresses it, why?

These are a drop in the buck of things your BOOK seem to overlook, and in my opinion the book has NO CREDIBILTY....

Nettathirty, My book? So you think Schiller's book has no credibility, yet you believe every rumor and fabrication you hear if you think it's in favor of Simpson. Funny. Schiller wrote his book with the consent of Simpson and his attorneys to show things from the defense point of view. Since you don't believe it has any credibility I guess you think Simpson's defense had no credibility.

1. The call that was inquiring about two dead bodies came into the Wiltshire community police station. It had nothing to do with Brentwood. The caller represented herself as somehow associated with channel 4. The watch commander for Wilshire, Sergeant Merrin testified that as watch commander he received calls several times a day asking whether or not he had heard of any murders or crimes that have gone on in the areas he was associated with.

2. Both the prosecution and the defense never called this Tom Lange as a witness because evidently neither of them believed what he claimed to be credible or relevant.

3. Simpson's defense attorneys requested that the calls on Simpson's telephone records that were not relevant to this case should be redacted.

4. My book? The Nissan driver may very well have come forward after the prosecution had decided to drop Shively, so he wasn't needed. The defense sure wasn't going to call him. You can read about this on Wagner's web site. He also believed Shively's story.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you have always expressed the opinion, like Wagner's, that Simpson was at Bundy but not the killer. So why are you questioning Jill Shively who Wagner believed? That certainly doesn't contradict your opinion.

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-17-2006, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob, I guess you can't understand " Guilty until Proven Innocent"..

Nettathirty, and you can't seem to understand that "not guilty" does not mean innocent. And that found responsible for the deaths of Ron and Nicole means Simpson killed them.

I don't know what you're discussing here but most of us are discussing the truth of who the killer was and how we know that truth. There is no doubt that Simpson killed both Ron and Nicole. Only people like you and ray who use excuses to avoid admitting the truth of this lying killer.

The best excuse I've heard lately was from a poster on another so called discussion group who said that Simpson couldn't have committed the murders because he's afraid of the dark, afraid of blood, and the Big Mac he ate that evening upset his stomach. I doubt if you or ray can top that one.

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-17-2006, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I doubt OJ was going to kill himself..

OJ had a disguise and $8k in cash.. What was his plan, if the suicide failed he would escape with his disguise and $8k in cash..

It's not adding up to ME!!!!

Nettathirty, no offense but I don't think you know how to add.

Simpson told Kardashian that he actually put his gun to his head and pulled the trigger but the gun jammed. After threatening to kill himself several times at Kardashian's house, Cowlings was driving Simpson to the Bel Air Church to do it. And that's where Simpson told Kardashian where he was when his gun jammed.

bobaugust

Wukong

04-17-2006, 08:17 PM

Netta,

"OJ said"!?

You just left yourself wide open. I'm not going to jump on this; I'm content to sit back and read the obvious replies.

Wukong

bobaugust

04-17-2006, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob,
These books never explain why!!!!!

Everything you mentioned is speculative... From the Nissan Driver to Tom Lange, not 1 book goes into detail...

Nettathirty, no it's not all speculation.

1. January 8, 1997 Steve Merrin.

Q. Directing your attention to June 12, 1994, particularly on the evening of that night, were you assigned to the West LA division?
A. No, sir, I was not.
Q. Where were you assigned, sir?
A. I was the patrol watch commander for Wilshire community police station.

***
Q. Now, the woman represented to you that she was -- was somehow associated with Channel 4; is that correct?
A. That's correct.

***
Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) And you received calls as watch commander several times a day asking whether
or not you've heard of any murders or crimes that have gone on in the area that you have any association
with?
A. Yes, sir, I do.

***
Q. And you had no knowledge as you took the call of any murders in the Wilshire area that you have anything to do with; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And you have nothing to do with -- the watch commander shift of Wilshire has nothing to do with Brentwood; isn't that correct?
A. That's correct.

2. Neither the prosecution nor the defense called this Tom Lange as a witness. Fact.

3. July 6, 1995

MS. CLARK: The second would be stipulation concerning the admissibility of telephone records. These concern the phone bills for the home telephone of the Defendant and for Juditha Brown.
THE COURT: All right. This will be subject to our agreement that if at a subsequent time there are phone numbers that are not relevant to the case, those will be redacted.
MS. CLARK: Right. And even days--dates. At this time, it seems apparent that at least June 12th and 13th are relevant, but it may be that that's all that's relevant and the rest can be stricken. So neither side waives the opportunity to object on grounds of relevancy later on.
MR. COCHRAN: That is correct. That's my understanding, your Honor. Both sides reserve that right to object on relevancy and the fact that we want to maintain the privacy of these numbers if at all possible, and further, there are other people who may have made these phone calls other than the parties involved.

4. Wagner wrote.
CORROBORATION: It has sometimes been portrayed that Jill's story is "uncorroborated." Well, the circumstances of the incident were that there were not many other witness -- the young man in the gray Nissan is the only one known -- and we do not know his story, or whether he might not have a compelling reason to keep quiet. So, if the man in the Nissan chooses not to come forward (and there is no public record that he has chosen to come forward) and Simpson himself denies the incident (as he has a motive to do) then there do not appear to be any other opportunities for corroboration of the incident itself. (However, I have heard credible rumors that in those first few days the LAPD received calls from people who claimed to have seen the Shively/Simpson encounter -- one was the driver of the gray Nissan and another was a pedestrian at the gas station nearby. Before these contacts could be investigated, Marcia Clark had denounced Jill Shively, and there was no more purpose for prosecuting the case in looking into them. But a record of their original contacts is still in the LAPD files.)

bobaugust

limakey

04-18-2006, 05:41 AM

There is no record of 30 phone calls to 911.

bobaugust

04-18-2006, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I created this post to Mr August. The debate was whether or not OJ lied about his suicide attempt to Robert Kardashian.. I think he did

Bob, posted a conversation between OJ and Kardashian.. OJ apparently TOLD RK that he attempted suicide, which I doubted.. However, if OJ lied about all these other things I mentioned, why couldn't he have easily lied about the suicide attempt.. I wonder?

OJ puts a gun to his head and pulls the trigger, and he missed... HELLO !!!! This is not adding up, we know the gun was loaded...

Nettathirty, OJ puts a gun to his head and pulls the trigger, and he missed?

No, read what I posted again. "Simpson told Kardashian that he actually put his gun to his head and pulled the trigger but the gun jammed."

Jammed is far different than missed. If Simpson was lying he sure fooled his close friends. They all believed Simpson was seriously contemplating suicide. That's why they were so concerned, trying to talk him out of it.

bobaugust

Wukong

04-18-2006, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by limakey
There is no record of 30 phone calls to 911.

Hi Limakey,

What 30 phone calls are these? I don't remember hearing about 30 911 calls. I see that you say there is no record of this so where did this come from? Maybe I'm getting old and just don't remember this.

Wukong

bobaugust

04-18-2006, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Maybe your right, but speaking as a Black Man.. I can say that I would not have done what AC did without prior knowledge of the consequences... The other Black Men that I spoke with, concurred the same opinion, that being Black makes you " guilty until proven innocent".. Sense I understand that, why in the HECK would I go on a Suicide Ride like A.C. did...

To me AC driving the Bronco on the 17th of June speaks volumes. That not only was OJ not guilty of the Murder of his ex-wife and Ron Goldman, but that the LADA an LAPD knew it as well..

Nettathirty, you are very confused. The fact that Cowlings left Kardashian's house with Simpson just before the police arrived was his concern for his friend and his talk of suicide.

It's very telling that you can't seem to grasp the life long close friendship these two men had. You have missed the mark every time you tell us what you think Simpson would have done or thought. You think because you're black you have some special insight into Simpson's thinking. You don't. That's evident from the opinions you express here. It's also evident your life experience is no where near Simpson's life experience. I'm sorry to inform you but you are as far removed from understanding Orenthal James Simpson as anyone could be.

I'm sorry to say but your opinion that Cowlings driving the Bronco on the 17th tells you not only was Simpson not guilty but that LAPD knew it as well is proof you really have no idea what you're talking about.

bobaugust

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 08:32 AM

*Snipped Originally posted by nettathirty
I can't argue this point, you have researched this trial and you have alot of insight... I just feel (i'm entitled) that the books of this case were tailored for it's audience and not for fairness in GENERAL ... I don't know about anyone else, but if I'm going to write a book that includes quotes and accusations of and by lawyers, I'm not going to take liberties with the truth. Toobin quotes the dream team and to a man (in fairness, I've not seen any quotes from Scheck, Neufeld or Douglas), they believed OJ murdered Ron and Nicole. Now, if anything said in those books were untrue, wouldn't those lawyers have raised holy hell and put a stop to them being published? MOO

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

the kids were safely tucked away with the browns, whom oj was paying for their care. plus, oj was about to locked up as a suspect of murder, i am sure he had planty to think about and do.
do you know if he did not talk to his kids at the browns house by phone???

Does it matter if he was paying for their care? Since when does money replace the comfort of a parent? Since when does a telephone conversation replace the comfort of a daddy's arms around a child?

I'm sure he did have plenty to think about, but as a parent one of the first things he should have beenthinking about was seeing his small children.

Will you always make excuses for his behavior? Is it that hard to say "hey I think he's innocent but I do think it's crappy that he didn't see his children right away"? Honestly, this gets more ridiculous as time goes on.

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

This is your Opinion, right?

No, this is far more than just my opinion. It is the opinion of most of America, as well as the opinion of OJ's own doctor.

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob,

OJ said he never hit Nicole
OJ said he was home all evening on the 12th
OJ said he didn't retrieve his cell phone message
OJ said he was not upset about the recital
OJ said Nicole lifestyle was the reason she was murdered
OJ said Faye Resnick is the key to unlocking this WHOLE Mystery
OJ said he cut himself earlier in the week
OJ said he was chipping golf balls during the time of the murders
OJ said he didn't own those "Ugly *** Shoes"
OJ said he never did Cocaine
OJ said the maid hit Nicole in '89 not him
OJ said the photo of him in the shoes were a fake
OJ said he and Nicole even though separated were friends
OJ said Paula had a tendency to what she did on the 12th
OJ said MA and NBS did have an affair
none of which you believe

I could give you a list as long as the above that would all begin with the following:

Mark Fuhrman said ....

Would you believe all of those? I'm guesssing not. Why? Because Mark Fuhrman was proven to have lied. OJ was proven to have lied countless times and therefore I don't believe anything he says execpt that which can be proven with factual evidence.

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Rosey was between a rock and a hard place. I think he did the right thing considering the position he was in. On the other hand, if anybody took the devil's side and came out smelling like a rose was AC Cowlings.

JMO and MOO I agree.

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

IIRC, She stuck by OJ's side the entire time during the trial, and visited OJ daily while he was in jail.... I don't know for a fact, i can only speculate.. Knowing OJ's appetite for women, I don't think he was as serious about Paula as it appeared via the trial and media...

JMO MOO IMO I believe you are right -- OJ lacks the emotional makeup to attach to any female -- this is made obvoius by his running around on Marguerite and then Nicole and then Paula. If OJ were a woman, we would call him a **** -- not unlike the things he and his supporters have said about Faye (even down to doing drugs). I don't believe it was whether or not OJ felt deeply for Paula -- it was the fact that Paula blew him off. Seems like OJ does not like being blown off by the women in his life.

I had never heard/understood that Paula was with OJ right up until the time that he and AC did their skeedaddle. Did it seem odd to anyone else that OJ was with 'friends' and not family during that time? MOO

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

You could be right, my field is not psychology.. However with my minimal knowledge of human behavior, I stand on the side that even though all men are created equal we still have a wide range of emotional differences.. imo I think everyone can agree with that statement. It is OJ's lack of emotion that seems to be perverse. MOO

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

bob

as i have said before i have read testimony from all of the important witnesses and posted some of this testimony just as you have. so i don't know why you continue to try to say i have not read testimony and you are the only one that has.

it is just that when you post testimony you give only the part that
supports what you belive happened. Don't want to hurt your feelings but bob isn't the only one that questions whether or not you've read testimony in this case -- I've sometimes thought maybe you read the cliff notes. My frustration with you is that you fabricate testimony/evidence to fit your theories. I am grateful that bob is capable of righting the distortions/untruths that you continue to make. At least when he posts a belief or theory, he says that's what it is -- MOO

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 10:09 AM

*Snipped* Originally posted by rayraytwo
I read the civil trial testimony just like you did. Looking at the trial and how the judge handcuffed the defense by not allowing much of their argument and how Petrocelli tossed up any theory he could think of and yes the pressure on the jury to massage the american publics desire for a liable verdict there was no way that the results could have been different. even if oj had not told what you call gross lies. the paula call means nothing other than that she called. actually oj was use to her tantrams when she did not get her way. she quickly realized the folly of her DUMPING him and came and stayed by his side when he was in jail.

you may belive that you are the only person on this thread that can read but it is not true. You have now proven bob's point -- Your post is nothing but distortions/untruths and fantasy. MOO

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 10:16 AM

*Snipped* or that paula was not as serious as he thought she was. [/B][/QUOTE] Wonder why then he broght the interior designer to the criminal trial to testify about meeting with OJ and Paula to redecorate the master bedroom for Paula?

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bronco chase:

Suicide Attempt or Escape Attempt, which was it?

OJ left a note, about not being able to go on with his life. ( this is the washed down version of his note ). Yet, when he surrenders at his Rockingham Estate to police he has $8K in cash, passport and disguise...

What was his plan to disguise his dead body? LOL -- if only. I don't believe OJ knew what to do or what he was going to do. Obviously, had he wanted to kill himself at Kardashian's, he could have. Had he wanted to kill himself in the Bronco, he could have. He thought he was caught but could not give up on his lifestyle and 'being OJ.' I don't believe he ever intended to kill himself -- he is the original drama queen -- needed to hear people telling him how much they loved him and how important he was. MOO

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i read her comments about family and babies some time ago.
obviously they said different things to each other at different times but their actions did not support what they reportedly talked about or that they were able to STAY deeply in love for any long period of time. LOL -- or that OJ was lying to her...........

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I notice that as well, "flipflopping".. To steal a phrase used during the 04' Presidential Election... You guys are something else -- who do you think changes their story about Paula? OJ, of course. First he says he had no reason to kill Nicole because he had gone on with his life and he and Paula were his future. Then he says the reason he was in the Bronco with family pictures, disguise, money and gun was because he was so distraught over Nicole's death because he loved her so much.........Wasn't the LE or the prosecution that made up the "yes I do" -- "no I don't".

BTW -- I've thought about Paula going to LV when she left OJ that day and here's what I think:
OJ -- Michael Bolton, OJ -- Michael Bolton
Viva Las Vegas!!!!!!!!!!!!

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by Kate Sachel

Netta,

Under oath OJ testified that he was suicidal and having thoughts of killing himself.

Apparently he was either too much of a coward to follow through or realized that it was not the appropriate route to go since he made it out of the Bronco alive.

Kate I'm voting "coward"

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty
Bob,
American Tragedy was a book written about his trial.. Bob, this has nothing to do with you sir, but my opinion of the books written in this trial adds nothing to what we didn't already know..

The Bronco Chase on June 17, 1994, is not what it appeared.. (IMO) A.C. driving the Bronco is suspect, Minority People that i've surveyed with not have done this.... OJ with the items found in the Bronco, contradicts his attempt at suicide, (IMO)... Then don't read a book about it -- read the transcript of the communication between OJ and Lange during the bronco ride. I don't believe he ever intended to kill himself -- he just didn't know how to get out of being caught. He took the coward's way out -- blamed innocent people for his demented faults. MOO

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

and a few days later when he was put in jail, if you are like paula, you would be by his side daily until after the trial. right? she said she still loved him -- too bad for her she fell for such a void of a person.

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 11:25 AM

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Dear Spin Doctor:

I said in an earlier post to YOU, that Books written about this case (IMO) are not fair to the opposing sides.. In my response to Bob August, i simply stated some of the things ALL these Books seem to overlook... There may be a reason that ALL of these books overlook those things -- including those from the defense: The evidence of OJ's guilt is overwhelming and the things you mention either have proved to be irrelevant to the the crime or did not happen. MOO

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob,

OJ said he never hit Nicole
OJ said he was home all evening on the 12th
OJ said he didn't retrieve his cell phone message
OJ said he was not upset about the recital
OJ said Nicole lifestyle was the reason she was murdered
OJ said Faye Resnick is the key to unlocking this WHOLE Mystery
OJ said he cut himself earlier in the week
OJ said he was chipping golf balls during the time of the murders
OJ said he didn't own those "Ugly *** Shoes"
OJ said he never did Cocaine
OJ said the maid hit Nicole in '89 not him
OJ said the photo of him in the shoes were a fake
OJ said he and Nicole even though separated were friends
OJ said Paula had a tendency to what she did on the 12th
OJ said MA and NBS did have an affair
none of which you believe ROFLMAO ---- hahahhahahaha. All of these things have been proven and documentated to be lies.........yes, some even by OJ's own friends. You really, really need to do some research.......LOL.....thanks for the laugh.

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty
And it shows, but i'll clue you in... I started a post that said "what remains a mystery to ME!!!!'' ME - ME - ME

That post included my thoughts about, A.C. driving the Bronco on June 17, 1994 during the "Slow Speed Chase"! I also mentioned in the post that every BLACK MAN i've discussed this event with has said the same thing.. There is NO way they would have driven their OWN DADDY in L.A., knowing that Rodney King less than 2 years earlier was beating nearly to death for his disregrad of the law.

I responded to your post about " me not understanding A.C. and OJ's friendship".. In my reply, I said considering Black Men are considered guilty until proven innocent, speaking from my own personal experience with "DWB" (driving while black)... I as many Black Men could not think of 1 reason a completely innocent A.C. would throw himself head first into a Double Homicide of 2 innocent white people... I do understand " guilty until proven innocent" I Your observations about this subject does not extend to the lifestyles of OJ and AC. These two guys had never had an incident with LE and can not relate to what you are talking about.

Since your brought up doing your own research, did you happen to ask how many would go to your house and take your beaten wife to the hospital? Did you ask how many would go down to the parking lot and pick up your wife's clothes after you threw them out a hotel window during one of your rages? Did you ask how many of them would get dressed in the middle of the night because his buddy called and said to come over to settle an argument between you and your wife?

AC did those things and more. Yep, what a great friend or more. Sat on the sidelines and let OJ abuse Nicole. I hope someday those children have the opportunity to ask him why he didn't help their mom. MOO

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Glad you mentioned this..

Professional Black Athletes are common place in African American barbershop. Most said they would have taken the Marcus Allen, Lynn Swann and Eric Dickerson approach(distance) because of their image... But not because they are black? Interesting.

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

RR2 and I never said A.C. was in danger, you added that.. What we're saying is the lack of danger toward AC by the "COPS" prompts one to conclude as a BLACK MAN that he knew he would not be punished for his actions... This is exactly what you did NOT say. Your babershop buds and you said you would NOT drive oj around.

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by limakey
There is no record of 30 phone calls to 911. oh geez.............No, but there are records of Nicole's abuse. So?

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
no.

why would defense lawyers spend time and money to try to force corrections in the hundreds of books written about this case.
oj was found not guilty it did not matter that some people wrote books with wrong info in them. there is no way to stop this.
like the national inquirer, how do celebrities stop them. Because the things being said about the lawyers was terribly unflattering and reflected on their abilities as lawyers? But you miss the point -- these particular lawyers didn't sue because it was the truth: They believed/knew OJ had murdered Nicole and Ron. Celebrities sue all the time for stuff they say is wrong.........WTH

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

To me AC driving the Bronco on the 17th of June speaks volumes. That not only was OJ not guilty of the Murder of his ex-wife and Ron Goldman, but that the LADA an LAPD knew it as well..

Netta,

I'm afraid that your argument has no bearing. At the time that OJ Simpson was being driven by AC he was considered under law to be a fugitive. Which, at that time, regardless of the guilt or innocence that would be determined later on, it was a crime for anyone to aide in his flee. Therefore, his personal thoughts of OJ's innocence or guilt would have no bearing on whether or not he could be charged with a crime.

Kate

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Forgive me, I didn't know you were a friend of O.J's and AC prior to June 12, 1994, it all make sense now...:lol:

You do not have to be a friend of OJ or AC's to understand the dynamics of their friendship. What their friendship was about was one of the only things that almost everyone from each side of this case agreed on, and testified to.

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
fbg

try to understand the pressures oj was under the day he was to give himself up. then ask yourself if you were in his perdicament would you have reacted rationally as you would to normal daily situations in your life?ray I can honestly say that had it have been me on that day -- AND I was innocent -- I would have been with my children and family. I've been divorced (after many, many years of marriage and a subequent remarriage) but I can tell you that I would not have killed myself had my ex-husband been murdered. I would have, been concerned about my children and family.MOO

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

easy to say what you would have done since this has never happened to you. LOL -- you asked me.........hahahahahaha

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i guess that out of 100 inquirer articles a month maby two celebrities sue. i am sure that the defense lawyers did not have the time or concern about all of these books. oj was not guilty, case closed. move on to the next case. Interesting thought process on your part. I've always believed they didn't sue because they wanted to distance themselves from OJ and their part in setting a double murderer free. MOO

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i am sure that is the only conclusion you would come to. but some of the defense lawyers wrote books backing up how they defended the case. so i don't see any running there. Not my point -- I know the lawyers denfended and explained how they tried the case. What I said was they all knew him to be guilty AND said as much to other people.

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

6/12 michael bolton 6/17 oj Oh please -- not even you would pick OJ over Bolton............LOL

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

It seems to me since you were at home or work and not in the mind of oj, it would be impossible for you to know what was going through his mind during the bronco ride. imo.

Okay, but you post nonstop about what you believe the intimate thoughts of OJ to be. ????

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i will tell you again. we think differently. i don't need you to formulate a comment for me to use, because YOU think it is what I should say. take it easy.

I would feel justified in saying that if you think the way that OJ did in that regard that you're a sorry excuse for a parent.

Disclaimer: The above is expressly my opinion (though shared by many others)

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 03:11 PM

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i will tell you again. we think differently. i don't need you to formulate a comment for me to use, because YOU think it is what I should say. take it easy.

Though I find it interesting that you didn't answer any of the questions that I posed.

When does money replace the comfort of a parent? When does a telephone call replace the comfort of daddy's arms around a child?

Additionally, explain why you believe that a telephone call to his children was sufficent. Explain why you place such emphasis on the fact that OJ was paying for their care.

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

I have postred my opinion of what i thought about oj actions. if you fail to understand my meaning. maby you should read the post again.

This response clearly tells me that you have no logical or reasonable responses to my questions and therefore are attempting to find a way not to answer them without making it obvious that you don't want to answer the questions.

It's actually a vintage OJ Simpson move ~ when you don't have a logical answer you make up a ridiculous response.

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

NO.

it is just that i belive that my post says what i thouight about all of ojs conduct regarding his children on that day.

you can only say what you would have done or what you may hope another individual would have done in that circumstance.

i doubt you would be on safe ground when you condem someone
for not responding in the manner that you say they should have
responded, when you were not experiencing the situation.

:seeya:

And still no answer to the specific questions.

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

paula did and went to see oj every day he was in jail.

6/17/ she was back in the saddle. Well, actually, she was seeing the horse behind bars -- who knows where she spent her nights?????

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I can't argue that it appeared he put his loyalty to OJ over his own life and freedom...

However, knowing what I know and what I have experienced, there is probably something else AC knew? AC knew the abusive history. In Petrocelli's book during his deposition, AC was asked if he ever considered that OJ had murdered Nicole and he said yes. His devotion to OJ is over the top. I don't believe there is anything he wouldn't do for him -- and did. MOO

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I remember watching the chase on Television, and didn't know what to make out of it at the time. Looking back on the chase, I come to the conclusion that everything isn't what it appeared.

example:

Mark Fuhrman Ain't that the truth? example: OJ Simpson, Al Cowling

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i have given you my answer, you just have to learn to accept answers whether you agree or not, remember you don't rule this board even though you may think you do.:seeya:

And still no answers to the specific questions.

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 04:08 PM

*Snipped* Originally posted by rayraytwo
temper tantrum was my word Ahh -- that explains it.

You know of course that OJ lied about not getting Paula's breakup message. This has been proven and is not disputable. From OJ's mouth to the notes of his therapist.

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

AC answered yes, that he thought OJ could have killed Nicole.. Someone how you see that as been devoted to OJ, how?

Yet, another BOOK reference: Splendid! Whenever I think about what all AC has done for OJ over the years it just kinda strikes me again how over the top that devotion is. Do you think he'll ever talk to Nicole's kids and try to explain how he sat on the sidelines and let OJ abuse her while he did OJ's clean up?

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 04:11 PM

*Snipped* Originally posted by nettathirty
Yet, another BOOK reference: Splendid! What would you have me reference? My poll from guys at the barbershop?

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I was giving MF the benefit of the doubt in my post, if you had read it.. I said " things didn't appear as they played out"., he was portrayed as a _____ during the trial, so the opposite would make him less the _____!! Are you giving OJ and AC the benefit, or are you emotionally posting your responses without ____ ing? Oh sorry -- evidently misread your post. No, no benefit to OJ or AC. I consider both to be two very sorry human beings. I hope AC knows that not everyone bought his 'oh boo-hoo' act during his deposition. MOO

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 04:20 PM

*Snipped* Originally posted by nettathirty
I was giving MF the benefit of the doubt in my post, if you had read it.. LOL -- the day you give MF the benefit of the doubt, is the day I'll believe OJ didn't kill Nicole and Ron......ain't happening.

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
fbg

i assume that oj knowing paula had again acted likle a teenager
because she could not go to the recital, he just said, gees another hot call from paula and did not pick it up. i think that is what i would have done.

but he must have known that she would be running back to STAND BY HER MAN on 6/17.

ps
do you think she was standing on the sidewalk yelling HI OJ all night or doing double duty at night?

:confused: Do you ever think through what you are going to post for answers? OJ retreived Paula's breakup message. Period.

Actually, Arnelle called Paula. Guess Daddy's little girl knew what daddy needed. MOO

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

The guys at the barbershop aren't motivated by MONEY, or the best sellers list..

Sometimes you don't find out who's motivated by what until something tragic happens and all of the sudden everyone is lining up for their chance to cash in and get their 15 minutes of fame.

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

The guys at the barbershop aren't motivated by MONEY, or the best sellers list.. And can't get sued for not telling the truth. Sounds like the guys at the barbershop are motivated by ra*e.........Rac*sts come in all colors you know.

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

OMG! Your speaking for me now!! I wouldn't assume to speak for you. I don't have the bias and hatred you have. MOO

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty
RR2 give up, Socaldiva was OJ's therapist she knew how OJ reacted to traumatic situations in the past... fbgweezer was OJ's golf buddy and did body guard work with AC, as you can see from their post they have insider information.. GIMME A BREAK You and RR2 react the same -- when confronted with the truth, you throw out wise guy remarks as if that's going to change the facts.

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 04:51 PM

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Stop your whining and playing your race card..
In all of my post the only person I've identified by race is myself... Not the barber, or LE!! You assumed it ... If you don't believe me, go and re-READ my post.. You are ridiculous. I'm not playing my race card -- I'm trumping your's. If the guys at your barbershop aren't black -- then why would they be afraid of driving another black man around? You make absolutely no sense. You are always referring to race -- if you don't believe it -- go and re-read your posts.

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Stop your whining and playing your race card..
In all of my post the only person I've identified by race is myself... Not the barber, or LE!! You assumed it ... If you don't believe me, go and re-READ my post..

Page 16: You stated ... "What we're saying is the lack of danger toward AC by the "COPS" prompts one to conclude as a BLACK MAN that he knew he would not be punished for his actions..."

In this post, you specifically spoke of AC's thoughts as a BLACK MAN.

Sounds like identifying by race to me.

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I take it you didn't read the post I replied too: Socaldiva made the reference to Black Athletes being priviledge, and i replied to it.. So it was socal who made reference to anothers race, not I!

You stated what the Professional Black Athletes in the barbershop said when polled ... therefore, you referred to more than yourself by race.

Busted Netta .... tsk tsk.

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

again, referring to myself...

Your post stated that "AC as a BLACK MAN knew" ... how is that referring to yourself?

Busted yet again Netta .... tsk tsk

fbgweezer

04-18-2006, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by Kate Sachel

You stated what the Professional Black Athletes in the barbershop said when polled ... therefore, you referred to more than yourself by race.

Busted Netta .... tsk tsk. :punch: :lol:

2L8 4A D8

04-18-2006, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by Kate Sachel

And still no answers to the specific questions.

Hope you are not holding your breath. RR2's reason for posting on this Board is to (he thinks) dazzle us with his brilliance, but in reality (of which he knows nothing about) he's just baffling us with his
bull*****!!!

JMO and MOO!!

bobaugust

04-18-2006, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

what i think is that paulas testimony was designed to show that contrary to what the prosecution was trying to say, oj was finished with nicole and was happy with paula and therefore would not have been concerned or angry about his latest breakup with nicole.

rayraytwo, Simpson's relationship with Paula was different then his relationship with Paula. The criminal defense tried to show that there wasn't any reason for Simpson to be upset that Sunday with Nicole because Simpson and Paula were together. Lie. Paula's dear john message breaking up with Simpson left on Simpson's cell phone message center early that morning was intentionally kept a secret so Cochran could make that false argument.

Simpson's anger at Nicole that day had more to do with how she avoided him at the recital, eliminated him from the family dinner plans, and limited the time he spent with Sydney. Simpson told Kaelin, "Nicole's playing hardball with me. Sydney's my child, too. I can see her when want to."

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-18-2006, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

BREAKING UP WITH PAULA: O. J. says he heard about Paula breaking up with him that day after he was in jail. It came up one time when Paula was visiting him. He says he just never retrieved the message. Apparently this was not an uncommon occurrence with Paula. She had also gotten mad at O. J. in Palm Springs not long before because he plays golf everyday instead of spending time with her. She "split up" with him then too, but then he went home and saw her again, and they went on with their lives.

rayraytwo, Simpson was lying.

When Simpson said that in his testimony he was impeached by his own telephone records that show after he returned home from the recital he called his message center and forwarded and listened to the message Paula left for him on his cell phone earlier that morning.

Simpson was also impeached by Dr. Lenore Walker's notes she took when speaking with Simpson when he was in jail. Simpson told Dr. Walker that he called his message center and forwarded Paula's message to listen to it and then told Dr. Walker some of the details that were in that message.

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-18-2006, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob,
IIRC OJ being anger with Nicole about the recital was Clark's theory.. OJ has never claimed to be upset with Nicole, Kato testified, that OJ was tired but he was not angry after the recital..

Nettathirty, you too it seems can't seem to get past the criminal trial.

November 19, 1996 Kato Kaelin

Q. Okay. And when you went inside and spoke to him, was this before or after he had come back from the recital?
A. This was after the recital.
Q. And what, if anything, did Mr. Simpson say to you about the recital that he had just attended?
A. O.J. had said that he was wondering what it would be like for these women to be wearing their outfits when they're grandmas, he had said.
Q. Did he indicate which women he was referring to?
A. Nicole.
Q. What did he say about that?
A. What is she going to do when she's a grandma?
Q. Referring to?
A. Her outfit.
Q. What did -- describe the outfit.
A. Miniskirt.
Q. And what else did Mr. Simpson say to you about the recital, if anything?
A. He said that Nicole was playing hardball with him because he wanted to see his daughter, Sydney, and she wasn't allowing him to.
Q. Mr. Simpson indicated to you what in regard to Sydney and Nicole?
A. He regarded that he wanted to see his daughter and Nicole was playing hardball, because she wouldn't let him see her after the recital.

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-18-2006, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

only so that you can stop posting the same thing about this phone call.
this is not the first time paula had said i finifhed. went to the store and was found on ojs door step 2 hours later.

now if you want to streatch a 'DUMP' phone call into a active motive for killing the mother and his children and the person that paula was pissed with opj because he refused to use paula as arm candy in front of nicole and the children , then do so.

rayraytwo, do you read the postings I make in response to you or do you not understand what I said?

Simpson lied about not receiving that message when he testified in the civil trial because he knew how incriminating it was since Cochran had told the criminal trial jury that Simpson wasn't obsessed with Nicole, he had Paula at the time of the murders.

The fact is that Simpson didn't have Paula at the time of the murders. Paula had ended their relationship in the message she left him on his cell phone. So Simpson lied to cover that up and still lied even after it was proved he was lying.

I previously posted that when Simpson had problems with Nicole before that day he had Paula to talk to and help him through them. Not that day. Simpson called Paula ten times that day. He never reached her.

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-18-2006, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob,
Let me clarify, I said Kato never said OJ was angry..

Nettathirty, do you think Simpson was telling Kaelin how happy he was with Nicole that she was playing hard ball with their kids?

Simpson was pissed.

bobaugust

Wukong

04-18-2006, 08:56 PM

It was quite obvious to me that OJ received Paula's message when he subsequently left a message later that day on Gretchen Stockdale's machine that said he was "Finally free for the first time in his life".

It is also quite obvious to me that OJ is quite the man-ho. Paula breaks up with him, Nicole is dissing him, he calls Gretchen trying to get a piece and also calls a Playboy model trying to get some. All in a few hours span.

What is also quite obvious to me from some of the male posters here that they have never tried to juggle 4 women at a time. Also ignoring the point of view of a woman. OJ tells Paula he loves her, wants babies, he's hiring a decorator for her to remodel Rockingham, takes her to a $10,000 a plate dinner on June 11th, weekends in Palm Springs with his kids, etc, etc... and the posters here feel that Paula is being difficult when OJ can't shake the Nicole jones. Obviously these posters do not understand women.

Wukong

Wukong

2L8 4A D8

04-18-2006, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

My thoughts of her running to be by OJs side during the trial and his imprisonment, was a sure sign that she had NO DOUBT about the Juicies innocense...

No, it's called "playing the game" and she did it well. When he was acquitted, did you see Paula anywhere around? No, of course not. She's not stupid!

JMO and MOO!!

limakey

04-18-2006, 10:00 PM

Wukong,

I don't think Paula's message means a thing. First and foremost, OJ was the ultimate player. He was never ever going to be faithful to one woman and they all knew it. I do believe that he made an attempt(s) to be faithful to Nicole but I don't think he could resist temptation for two reasons. One, men still get away with cheating because our society still thinks that there is a huge difference between making love and sex. Sure, a guy can have sex with 20 other women while he is married, but he only "makes love" to his wife. And then we have then there is the good ole boy explaination of sex, that if you only have oral sex, it isn't sex and therefore, just totally doesn't count. Thank you Bill Clinton!!!

I also believe he truly loved Nicole but he always had an excuse for cheating on her---like she didn't like the Hollywood scene and she wasn't as social as he was, so he had to have girlfriend to take to the events that Nicole didn't want to go to. I guess he never heard of the word "stag".

Paula was the one was pissed because OJ refused to take her to Sydney's dance. OJ always refused (as did Nicole) to bring "dates" to their family events or functions. Paula was pissed because as she said in her message, if it isn't golf, its the kids, if it isn't the kids, its golf. Paula was jealous of Nicole and that is something she has never denied.

Also, do you really think OJ believed that he couldn't get any woman back that he wanted? All he had to do was to wait them out, "be a good boy" and then after awhile, same-ole-same.

How many times in OJ's life, since he started having sex has the opposite sex broke up with him? He loved the chase, he loved the challenge. He knew that he could charm any woman he wanted to and had a very, very track record in that. Several of his mistresses, even after the murders, had nothing but nice things to say about him and that he was always a gentleman and attentive.

I'm sorry, I don't think Paula's message means anything, and I think it is comical when people say that Paula was the trigger for the murders. I think it is humorous because Paula explains why she left the message, because she knew once she heard his voice, it was over for her. Well if she knew that, then OJ knew that.

IMO

bobaugust

04-18-2006, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by limakey
Wukong,

I'm sorry, I don't think Paula's message means anything, and I think it is comical when people say that Paula was the trigger for the murders. I think it is humorous because Paula explains why she left the message, because she knew once she heard his voice, it was over for her. Well if she knew that, then OJ knew that.

IMO

Limakey, You may not think that Paula's message means anything but Cochran and Simpson did.

Cochran lied when he told the jury, "Why kill Nicole? Simpson wasn't obsessed with Nicole, he had Paula."

In his closing statement Cochran told the jury, "Let me just make a comment about Paula Barbieri. One of the most outrageous things I heard yesterday was this wild speculation that O.J. Simpson had some kind of falling out with Paula Barbieri on that Sunday. Where is the evidence of that? That is preposterous. The evidence is quite to the contrary."

In the civil trial when Simpson was confronted with his telephone records showing when he was at his house after returning from Sydney's recital a telephone call was made on his home telephone to his message center and Paula's message was forwarded from his cell phone and listened to. Yet Simpson still felt he had to lie and say he never received that message.

Dr. Lenore Walker, domestic violence expert for the defense spent sixty plus hours interviewing Simpson in his jail cell. Dr. Walker took contemporaneous notes of her sessions with Simpson. When asked she turned them over to the plaintiffs attorneys. "Among other findings, Dr. Walker freely admitted Simpson was a spousal batterer and Nicole a battered spouse. Simpson had also told her that he had, indeed, picked up Paula's message and that he had called Paula on the night of June 12 from his car."

Dr. Walker's notes February 25, 1995
"Called Paula, not home, Call forward on car phone message from Paula. Whole long message about golf, Don't see you. He's not sure if in Arizona or Las Vegas, or if angry with him. He listens to message. Kato goes by house."

When confronted with Dr. Walker's notes, Simpson still denied he had received Paula's message.

Maybe you should reexamine your belief that this meant nothing since it's evident that Simpson and Cochran disagree with you. Simpson called Paula ten times that day. That message wasn't the trigger that led to the murders, only one of the many things that caused Simpson's anger to escalate that day. The trigger was Gigi's 8:00 telephone call that gave Simpson the opportunity to kill that night.

bobaugust

Wukong

04-18-2006, 11:15 PM

Limakey,

I agree that way too much was made of Paula being the trigger to OJ killing Nicole. That was not why I wrote that post. Actually that post was a prelude to what I really want to say on this subject. I do feel that Paula had a bit part in all this though. To say this is not true is pure denial.

It seems that in this case people tend to oversimplify and trivialize the dynamics of relationships and the emotions involved. It seems that everyone is trying to sum up in a nice tidy package, in one post, how emotions may have played a part in this case. This is a naive way to approach this part of the case. Some of the armchair psychologists want to make OJ out to be some kind of emotional Superman where feelings of love, loyalty and guilt bounce off him like bullets. Like OJ was out banging all these white women with absolute absence of any kind of guilt or conscience. I don't buy it (to borrow a quote from Netta).

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe OJ is some kind of emotional eunich; but I doubt it. OJ has said many times in his testimony and elsewhere that he loved Nicole, always. He loved her right up to the day she died. They were married for 17 years! He also said he felt guilt and remorse when he cheated on Nicole. There is a strong learned subconscious emotional turmoil involved here. I will use my own personal experience as an analogy. I am sure I will get chastized and told I'm not OJ and don't know what he was thinking. I'll tell you what, I don't think any man is immune to the emotions I felt during my experience.

After my divorce (14 years of marriage preceded by 7 years of dating) I started dating. At one point I was juggling two girlfriends. At the same time I was having occassional relations with my Ex. Here's the wierd part; No matter which of the three I was with, I felt occassional pangs of guilt. When you are in a relationship with three different women, constant floods of emotions and thoughts enter your mind. For example; I'm with one woman and we are having a great time. No thoughts of anyone else. Then all of a sudden something happens that may remind me of one of the other two and feelings of guilt appear. This feeling may only last a second or two but this thought is now planted. It keeps popping up at the most inopportune times. I kept feeling that I was cheating on one of the other women, even though I was single and felt like a player, at the same time I felt guilty.

There is not one emotion that stays consistent 24/7. Emotions come and go, sometimes every second. Emotions are extremely complex and uncontrollable, even by OJ. If this was not true there would not be such a thriving psychology business out there. OJ's relationships, his player personna, his sense of connection to Nicole all affected his emotions. To say that Paula breaking up with OJ had absolutely nothing to do with the idea that OJ could have killed Nicole is naive in my opinion. I believe everything in OJ's life at the time, emotions in his love life and just everyday emotions concerning business, golf, what have you, all played a part.

Unfortunately this post doesn't exactly say what I want it to. The basic idea is there, I just can't find the words to explain it completely. Actually, some of the emotions I was talking about came flooding back and broke my train of thought. I'll have to recoup and hpefully finish my thoughts later.

Wukong

DiddleySquat

04-18-2006, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by Wukong
It was quite obvious to me that OJ received Paula's message when he subsequently left a message later that day on Gretchen Stockdale's machine that said he was "Finally free for the first time in his life".Why something like that was even allowed in court still baffles me. It shows nothing. OJ was flirting with another blonde. Yeah. Yawn.

As far as I'm concerned, Gretchen Stockdale's testimony was one many classic "waste of time" moments at the OJ trial.

limakey

04-18-2006, 11:54 PM

Wukong,

I have to disagree with you about the over simplyfing (sp?) of OJ's and Nicole's relationship as a couple as well as with their relationships with others. I think it has been so blown out of portion that people forget that at the end of the day, they were both human, had their faults and neither claimed to be perfect.

I do give you credit for using your experiences as a guide. I have done the same and that is why I feel the way I do. I know what I said, how I acted when I went through a divorce. I said some things I truly regretted, I said some horrible things that I can only hope God can forgive me. I made threats that at the time I meant them only to have a serious reality check and again, hope that God would forgive me. (Personally, I don't care if my ex forgave me, because he is the reason I made them - but you know what I'm trying to say!)

I do believe OJ Simpson loved many women, but I do believe he was only ever truly in love with Nicole. I think Paula knew that, as did the others did. No matter how many times OJ may have told them that he loved them, they knew the difference, they knew the place Nicole had in his heart.

I could see your point if more time had passed, but if you think about the history of Nicole and OJ, they were the couple who were made to break up and make up. If you go by what Nicole's friends have said about her, I believe that OJ knew that Nicole would eventually want him back again. Sure, they may have broken up a few more times but that was the history of their relationship.

The same with Paula, he is calling her that night for a ride, to me, if I was Paula, I would have been doubly pissed off that I left him this long message and he is calling me a hours later to ask me to take him to the airport!

I do believe Paula was special to OJ and that they may have had a future if the murders didn't happen but I seriously doubt it. There was no way that Paula was going to live in Nicole's shadow and even if she and OJ had children, she knew that she would have to get in line with the ex's. It would take a strong woman to do that and I don't know if Paula had that in her.

I think once you are a player, you are always a player and never look back. When OJ spoke about Nicole's relationship with other guys, he always says he cheated on her and that he had no room to talk that Nicole was with other men. I'm sure he felt guilty and still feels guilty that it was his cheating that cost him the only woman he truly ever loved.

limakey

04-19-2006, 12:04 AM

Kate,

I think it is wrong to say that OJ or anybody else was too much of a coward to committ suicide. Had he committed suicide, he would still be called a coward.

I have had much experience with this and it doesn't matter who the person is who committs suicide or why they do it, they will be called a coward. The sad part, it is usually the family members that love them most is doing the name calling.

Suicide is a permanent solution to usually, a temporairy situation.

My spelling is way, way off tonight, sorry. Been a long few days and nights.

limakey

04-19-2006, 12:07 AM

Dr. Walker told OJ that even if you batter only once, you still get the title of batterer. I believe she also said that he understood this and later said that OJ was one of the few men she knew that actually learned from that one incident.

And remember, Nicole had the same title OJ had, and it doesn't matter if she battered OJ or the maid, you hit someone, you are a batterer.

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 12:19 AM

Originally posted by DiddleySquat
Why something like that was even allowed in court still baffles me. It shows nothing. OJ was flirting with another blonde. Yeah. Yawn.

As far as I'm concerned, Gretchen Stockdale's testimony was one many classic "waste of time" moments at the OJ trial.

DiddleySquat, I some what agree with that.

What is more telling about this is what Paula Barbieri said. Paula testified that based on what Simpson said in messages he left for her that day she believed that Simpson had picked up the message she left on his cell phone message center at 7:00 AM Sunday morning.

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by limakey

The same with Paula, he is calling her that night for a ride, to me, if I was Paula, I would have been doubly pissed off that I left him this long message and he is calling me a hours later to ask me to take him to the airport!

Limakey, Simpson lied when he said he was calling Paula that night at 10:03 to get a lift to the airport.

Simpson had told both the cops and Dr. Walker that he knew Paula was out of town, plus a limousine had been ordered by Cathy Randa to be at his house at 10:45.

bobaugust

limakey

04-19-2006, 12:34 AM

Taz,

I realize that you think it is a big deal that OJ's house was changed for the jury but don't you think that could have just easily backfired? Don't you think that a couple of jurors noticed it and didn't take it well?

Don't forget, very early on in this case there was already a wide division between blacks and whites. The media never missed a chance to say how OJ had distance himself from his community, that he lived in a white world and all his friends were white, etc.

They could have just as easily hated OJ for marrying a white woman and then having his home changed around. However, even if they did notice and even if they hated OJ for it, was that suppose to matter to them when looking at the evidence? Was it suppose to have anything to do with where the glove was found?
Did it have anything to do about blood evidence not being seen or collected for days or weeks?

Really, in the big picture, it doesn't matter who's pictures were on the walls, it was where were blood drops on the white carpet? Where was the dirt on the white carpet? How did he drop that glove back there?

The sole reason for that jury to go on that tour was to see the crime scene at Bundy and where evidence was found at Rockingham. IMO

limakey

04-19-2006, 12:37 AM

So who was OJ calling? And I think in OJ's statement to the police was that he knew that Paula might have gone out of town but tried her anyway.

Wukong

04-19-2006, 03:58 AM

Limakey,

I was not talking about OJ and Nicole specifically when I said people trivialize the dynamics of the relationships. You assumed I meant OJ and Nicole's relationship. Go back and read what I wrote.

After reading your response I see that now you ARE trying to trivialize the dynamics of OJ's and Nicole's relationship, so now I will talk about that. You seem to shrug off the relationship like it was not a big deal; they got together and split up all the time, she'll eventually want him back, so OJ wasn't worried. This is not trivializing the relationship? Then you say "Once a player always a player, never look back". Then in the same paragraph you say that you think "OJ feels guilty to this day". These two statements are completely opposite. First you say OJ was a player, just looking for the next conquest, never looking back. Then you have OJ looking back with guilt about his cheating ways. You can't have this both ways Limakey.

So if, as you say, OJ was just a player, never looking back, then all the turmoil in his relationships at that time just rolled off his back like water off a duck. He didn't care one little bit about this 'cause he wasn't looking back. I guess him calling Gretchen and the Playboy model is proof then.

How about this as an alternate way of looking at what OJ might have been thinking that night. Mind you this is just one scenario I just made up that is just as possible as any other:

He is obviously having problems with Nicole. She's playing hardball with the kids, returning stuff to him, basically dissing him at the recital, no invitation to the big family dinner afterward. He had recently caught her giving a Brentwood hello to Keith, he's learning about all these men and Nicole's partying out on the town. He served her with a notice about the IRS, she was threatening to expose OJ and Kardashian's illegal gambling and porn business as revenge. Basically she's not playing nice. Now Paula breaks up with him, he gets only Gretchens answering machine. I know that Diddley and Bob don't think this is important but to me it goes towards his state of mind. Why would he say "I'm free for the first time in my life"?? Is this his normal pickup line? No, I think this was his thinking at the time: "I'm OJ the player! I don't look back, I'll just find me some new Ho". I also think that when he was sitting in that big house, all by himself, no one to talk to but Kato, he starts going over all this stuff in his mind. He calls Christian Riechart and talks to him for over half an hour about Nicole. He calls Nicole to talk to Sidney and Nicole doesn't even acknowlege him. I think he sat there brooding and steaming and I think he finally snapped.

Hey, why not? You guys have your ideas, here's one of mine.

Wukong

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 05:14 AM

Originally posted by Wukong

How about this as an alternate way of looking at what OJ might have been thinking that night. Mind you this is just one scenario I just made up that is just as possible as any other:

He is obviously having problems with Nicole. She's playing hardball with the kids, returning stuff to him, basically dissing him at the recital, no invitation to the big family dinner afterward. He had recently caught her giving a Brentwood hello to Keith, he's learning about all these men and Nicole's partying out on the town. He served her with a notice about the IRS, she was threatening to expose OJ and Kardashian's illegal gambling and porn business as revenge. Basically she's not playing nice. Now Paula breaks up with him, he gets only Gretchens answering machine. I know that Diddley and Bob don't think this is important but to me it goes towards his state of mind. Why would he say "I'm free for the first time in my life"?? Is this his normal pickup line? No, I think this was his thinking at the time: "I'm OJ the player! I don't look back, I'll just find me some new Ho". I also think that when he was sitting in that big house, all by himself, no one to talk to but Kato, he starts going over all this stuff in his mind. He calls Christian Riechart and talks to him for over half an hour about Nicole. He calls Nicole to talk to Sidney and Nicole doesn't even acknowlege him. I think he sat there brooding and steaming and I think he finally snapped.

Hey, why not? You guys have your ideas, here's one of mine.

Wukong

Brian, very good. I like it. You summarized everything we know about that must have really bothered Simpson. In the past when Simpson was faced with this kind of anger towards Nicole, he could talk to Paula and she could pull him back to normalcy, but not that day. She too deserted him with her dear john message, and going out of town yet he still called her ten times that day evidently wanting desperately to talk to her and for her to help him.

Still Simpson may never have taken this to the next step other than making angry threats to Nicole except for the trigger. Gigi's 8:00 telephone call. That call opened the door. It provided an unexpected opportunity that Simpson never planned on. Simpson changed his clothing, found reasons to talk to Kaelin and then still made a last attempt at calling Paula before he left for Bundy, but nothing happened to stop him.

bobaugust

Wukong

04-19-2006, 05:48 AM

Thanks Bob!

I knew you'd like this. I have a feeling there may be more than one person who takes exception with my version though. That's OK, I've got more scenarios that fit the evidence. Alas, I'm sure they won't like those either.

Wukong

Wukong

04-19-2006, 07:39 AM

Ray,

I don't think the call to Gretchen meant he was going to kill. I just think it was just another hint as to OJ's state of mind. "I'm free for the first time in my life". I believe that after he sat down and really thought about this fact, the more he didn't like the idea of being completely free. See, I don't think OJ is the player he made himself out to be. I think deep down inside he just wanted to be with Nicole and the kids. It was only when he was thinking with the wrong head is when he went-a-cheatin'.

The part of your post concerning considerations OJ SHOULD have been thinking about did not enter his mind. As I clearly said in my little scenario; OJ SNAPPED.. When someone snaps, all logic goes out the window, similar to when he was thinking with the wrong head.

Wukong

Kate Sachel

04-19-2006, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

again, reading into my post what you want, rather than what is obvious! So you've only busted yourself, for not being objectionable...

I can only read into your posts what you say, and what you said specifically Netta is that AC as a "black Man" knew he wouldn't get in trouble. You were speaking of AC as a black man, you most certainly were not referring to yourself and your own thoughts as a black man in that post and anyone with two eyes can clearly see that.

Simpson tried the same type of spins, they didn't work for him and they don't work for you here.

Please attempt to stop burying yourself any further on this particular topic, you were caught and the best thing to do would be to admit it. But I certainly won't hold my breath on that one.

Kate Sachel

04-19-2006, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I don't know OJ, so I can only speculate what his mindset my have been. I do know Kato never said OJ was pissed, as you claim!

Simpson's friend Ron Fischman did testify however that Simpson was angry and that he said "I'm gonna get her, but good".

Kate Sachel

04-19-2006, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by limakey

I realize that you think it is a big deal that OJ's house was changed for the jury but don't you think that could have just easily backfired? Don't you think that a couple of jurors noticed it and didn't take it well?

They could have just as easily hated OJ for marrying a white woman and then having his home changed around.

I think you may be missing the point that the jurors had never before been inside the home of OJ Simpson, so how would they be able to take offense at a change they didn't know occurred?

Kate Sachel

04-19-2006, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by limakey
Kate,

I think it is wrong to say that OJ or anybody else was too much of a coward to committ suicide. Had he committed suicide, he would still be called a coward.

I have had much experience with this and it doesn't matter who the person is who committs suicide or why they do it, they will be called a coward. The sad part, it is usually the family members that love them most is doing the name calling.

Suicide is a permanent solution to usually, a temporairy situation.

My spelling is way, way off tonight, sorry. Been a long few days and nights.

limakey,

Simpson has been a coward all of his life, and never more so than that day in the Bronco.

He savagely ended the lives of two young people who wanted to live and then he has the nerve to put a gun to his head and contemplate taking his own life? That is what a coward does, and that is what he did.

I'm not concerned with the idea that you think my thought process is wrong, as I am just as disturbed by many things that are a part of your thought process.

tazzybaby

04-19-2006, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by limakey
Taz,

However, even if they did notice and even if they hated OJ for it, was that suppose to matter to them when looking at the evidence? Was it suppose to have anything to do with where the glove was found?
Did it have anything to do about blood evidence not being seen or collected for days or weeks?

Really, in the big picture, it doesn't matter who's pictures were on the walls, it was where were blood drops on the white carpet? Where was the dirt on the white carpet? How did he drop that glove back there?

The sole reason for that jury to go on that tour was to see the crime scene at Bundy and where evidence was found at Rockingham. IMO

Hi Limakey,

I do think it's a big deal. Why? Because he was playing games. It is just one bit of proof of the Defense trying to purposely sway the jury. Why not just art? Why didn't they just put Art work up on the walls? They purposely chose the pictures that they chose. Backfire? Why would it backfire? It worked just the way they wanted. It was just one more drop in the big bucket of smoke and mirrors. They made the house warm and cozy. The jurors were in awe. That's what they were going for. They went thru the trophy room before anything. Why would they be mad for him marrying a white woman while touring the home? There was no mention of her in that home. They took that down.

What did this have to do with giving a verdict on the evidence alone? Well, Cochran told them to "send a message" that they weren't going to take crap from the LAPD any more. What message was that? That blacks had been mistreated by Law Enforcement long enough. They weren't going to stand for it anymore. They believed that LE could have planted because they had been mistreated by LE in the past. There wasn't any evidence of planting. There was a cut that OJ had (LE couldn't plant that) and his blood at the scene of both locations. But, they knew that LE had mistreated them in the past so it must be true this time. The evidence was overlooked. Not guilty in three hours. Then the juror gave him the salute. Changing the house did affect the way that they looked at the evidence. It prejudiced their reasoning. In the big picture, it mattered who's pictures were on the wall. That's why the defense changed them.

As far as the carpet was concerned....the carpet had been cleaned before the second search warrant. They didn't allow illuminol evidence at that time. That would have been very interesting though.

Yes, the whole reason to go on the tour was to see the location where the bodies were found. They needed to see how small the area was. They also needed to see the back of the house on Rockingham. The view point of the limo driver. There was no need to go thru the house by way of the trophy room. They really didn't even NEED to see the bedroom. There was nothing that could be gained from seeing the actual bedroom. Pictures were sufficient. I do agree that seeing the back of Kato's wall was necessary and the Bundy crime scene.

tazzybaby

04-19-2006, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

*snip*
ps he did not have a lot of time to ' think" about the situation after the call from paula because if i am correct her call came at about 10:00 pm or he tried to call her at about that time. i am not sure but there was not a lot of time for him to 'THINK' about it.

what did he do, get her call, run up stairs, change clothes, get a cao, etc get a knife and run to the bronco without thinking at all.

if oj had wanted to kill nicole he had resources to accomplish this
without having fingers point to him and doing it in such a messy manner. imo

the "he snapped" theory has not convienced me. oj was use to all kinds of pressure in his personal life and business not related to women.

Hi rayray,

Paula testified that she called OJ at 7:00 a.m. and left the "dear John" message. He tried to call her several times during the day. His last call to her was at 10:04. He said that he was in his car driving around when he called her from his cell phone. So, he had plenty of time to think about it.

I wonder how things would have turned out if Paula would have answered. Would he have calmed down any if she had of answered? Or would it have upset him more if she still didn't want to be with him? I don't think that Paula alone triggered anything. I think she was part of the equation. I also think that OJ and Nicole did indeed talk on the phone that night. He probably confronted her about "playing hardball" with the kids. He was already threatening her with the IRS. He was playing hardball himself. The 911 call when he broke the door to get in came after he and Nicole talked on the phone. He was still pissed and he drove over there. Why isn't it possible that he did the same this night? The "he snapped" theory is very plausible. He had done it just the prior year. He snapped when he went to Nicoles and forced himself in. He didn't care if she wanted to talk or not. He didn't care if the kids were asleep. I wonder what he would have done to her if Kato wouldn't have been there to witness?

fbgweezer

04-19-2006, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Nobody would have done what AC did, not even you! You are right. I also wouldn't have sat on the sidelines and let my dear, dear friend use his wife as a punching bag and listen while he demeaned and emotionally abused her. I also wouldn't have been johnny-on-the-spot to do the clean up after my dear, dear friend's rages. But then that's just me -- obviously you have a different perspective to what friends should do.

fbgweezer

04-19-2006, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

again, reading into my post what you want, rather than what is obvious! So you've only busted yourself, for not being objectionable... I also don't find her objectionable.

Kate Sachel

04-19-2006, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by limakey
Dr. Walker told OJ that even if you batter only once, you still get the title of batterer. I believe she also said that he understood this and later said that OJ was one of the few men she knew that actually learned from that one incident.

And remember, Nicole had the same title OJ had, and it doesn't matter if she battered OJ or the maid, you hit someone, you are a batterer.

The definition of a batterer is not someone who simply strikes another person, and if you read Dr. Walker's book you will understand that there is much more to the title of a batterer than striking someone once.

For example, a person that gets into a bar fight and punches someone is not a batter. Rather, they have committed an act of battery. There is a very distinct difference. The child that smacks their sibling because they won't share the crayons is not a batterer, rather they have committed an act of battery. Nicole striking a maid does not make her a batterer, rather she has committed an act of battery.

Being a batterer in psychlogical domestic violence context is using violence, emotions, and sexual acts as a means to assert control over another individual. The batterer wants to dominate their partner and uses different methods to gain their compliance such as financial and economic restrictions.

A batterer’s behavior is most often a learned behavior which the abuser chooses to engage in. Batterers perfect their behavior through observation, experience, reinforcement, culture, family and community. A batterer learns what works to make the victim do what he or she wants.

fbgweezer

04-19-2006, 10:55 AM

*Snipped* Originally posted by limakey
And remember, Nicole had the same title OJ had, and it doesn't matter if she battered OJ or the maid, you hit someone, you are a batterer. WTH -- :confused: OJ was the only person to have accused Nicole of that. He always saw himself as the victim -- never anyone else. Remember in his suicide letter he said "I feel like a battered husband. . . ." What a joke.

fbgweezer

04-19-2006, 11:00 AM

*Snipped* Originally posted by limakey
When OJ spoke about Nicole's relationship with other guys, he always says he cheated on her and that he had no room to talk that Nicole was with other men. I'm sure he felt guilty and still feels guilty that it was his cheating that cost him the only woman he truly ever loved. Your post almost sounds like the makings of a romance novel. Unfortunately, this is the saga of a double murder and the man responsible for them being let go by a system and a jury that failed us all.

OJ had threatened Nicole that if he ever found her with another man, he'd kill her (Nicole's diary/friends' testimony). The only reason he feels guilty about Nicole's death is because he was the person wielding the knife that slit her throat.