General Case Discussion: OLD THREAD

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


You would think LE would have checked the buzzer-- I'm surprised they did not.

Do you think this is possible:
Ron was just going to drop the glasses off-- so when he got in front of Nicoles, he beeped the horn, she went out, got in the car for a few minutes to talk and thank him, and during that conversation she invited him in, he accepted and went to park the car. She got attacked as she walked back in, and then Ron shows up because he didn't just drive away, he parked and came in behind her. There has never been any testimony/statements to anyone hearing a car horn. There has never been any evidence/statements that Nicole was ever in the car Ron was driving that night.

LE did note that the buzzer for the front gate was not working that night. Posters on this board have differing theories on how the gate was unlocked and what caused Nicole to be outside.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


bob has said this about wagners site many time on this thread.
martin II This is not true or at least not from anything I've ever read that bob has posted regarding wagner's site. Most reasonable people consider wagner's conclusions as to the crime to be fantasy and I for one consider them ludicrous.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


if oj was ever at bundy, there is no evidence to point to him arriving or leaving from the sidewalk in front of nicoles condo.
martin II I was responding to netta's theory that Orenthal arrived at Bundy after the murders. And, depending on your persuasion, the fact that the front gate was open and the fact that Orenthal was in possession of the key to unlock the front gate, you could deduce that Orenthal came to the property through the front gate.

[martin II]

Originally posted by Beebee


You would think LE would have checked the buzzer-- I'm surprised they did not.

Do you think this is possible:
Ron was just going to drop the glasses off-- so when he got in front of Nicoles, he beeped the horn, she went out, got in the car for a few minutes to talk and thank him, and during that conversation she invited him in, he accepted and went to park the car. She got attacked as she walked back in, and then Ron shows up because he didn't just drive away, he parked and came in behind her.

i cannot remember any information that would not allow this to be possible. he could have given her a general time he would arrive and she could have been listening for the car horn.

consider these issues.

1. nicole had the house or room lit with candels as if she
expected company.
2. cora fishman testified that nicole or faye told her that nicole had
expressed some kind of interest in seeing what ron was about.

so she very well could have invited him to park and come in.
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I was responding to netta's theory that Orenthal arrived at Bundy after the murders. And, depending on your persuasion, the fact that the front gate was open and the fact that Orenthal was in possession of the key to unlock the front gate, you could deduce that Orenthal came to the property through the front gate.

based on the foot pints leading to the back gate. and
based on heidstra saying he saw a white jeep come from the area of the west alley on dorothy to bundy.
it is more reasonable to belive the killer arrived and left by the back gate.imo

martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
There has never been any testimony/statements to anyone hearing a car horn. There has never been any evidence/statements that Nicole was ever in the car Ron was driving that night.

LE did note that the buzzer for the front gate was not working that night. Posters on this board have differing theories on how the gate was unlocked and what caused Nicole to be outside.

no one knows if she did or did not get into a car that night.
the only informaiton we have about exactly what nicole did after she got home from the ice cream bar is that there were a few phone calls made by her and to her condo and that she was outside when the killers attacked her.

if she went and opened her back door, or peeked out her front door and closed it. there would be no evidence of this.
if she went to the sidewalk to speak to someone and no neighbor saw her and the person never came forward. there would be no evidence of her actions.
martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


based on the foot pints leading to the back gate. and
based on heidstra saying he saw a white jeep come from the area of the west alley on dorothy to bundy.
it is more reasonable to belive the killer arrived and left by the back gate.imo

martin II Based on what we evidence, we can reasonably believe that Orenthal left by the back gate. We can speculate on which gate he used to enter the property. Personally, I believe he entered through the front gate.

[fbgweezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
i cannot remember any information that would not allow this to be possible. And there is absolutely nothing that corroborates that this did happen.

[fbgweezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
no one knows if she did or did not get into a car that night.
the only informaiton we have about exactly what nicole did after she got home from the ice cream bar is that there were a few phone calls made by her and to her condo and that she was outside when the killers attacked her.
You are right -- sadly, no one does know. Except that is for the murderer who left his blood, footprints, cap, glove and fibers at the murder scene. Your hypothesis that there were multiple killers is wrong. Had there have been others there, there would have been evidence. There was none.

As you've posted in the past, the street and bushes were full of murderers that night. But I guess if one of them saw her sitting in Ron's car, he/they wouldn't have come forward to tell LE.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* And there is absolutely nothing that corroborates that this did happen.

fbg, why do you think Nicole went outside?

As for the car horn, (if it happened that way) who remembers things like a car beep? The thing is, if the buzzer wasn't working, how did Nicole know Ron was out there?
Plus, if Nicole was struck first, then the killer didn't go in after Ron, imo.... or Ron would have been struck first.

[Beebee]

martin check your pm box :)

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* You are right -- sadly, no one does know. Except that is for the murderer who left his blood, footprints, cap, glove and fibers at the murder scene. Your hypothesis that there were multiple killers is wrong. Had there have been others there, there would have been evidence. There was none.

As you've posted in the past, the street and bushes were full of murderers that night. But I guess if one of them saw her sitting in Ron's car, he/they wouldn't have come forward to tell LE.
fbg
you have mistated my words. i have never said the bushes were 'FULL OF MURDERS'

i stated the testimont of the skate boarder when he said he saw
a black headed man hiding in the grass in front of n icoles condo.

then i posted what is said to be tom langs (nicoles neighbor)
report of him seeing some people in front of nicoles condo.

martinII

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


fbg, why do you think Nicole went outside?

As for the car horn, (if it happened that way) who remembers things like a car beep? The thing is, if the buzzer wasn't working, how did Nicole know Ron was out there?
Plus, if Nicole was struck first, then the killer didn't go in after Ron, imo.... or Ron would have been struck first. I've speculated that Nicole knew Ron was coming and when she heard the front gate, she stepped out to open it for him. Unfortunately, it was not Ron she'd heard but Orenthal. Forensic evidence is that Nicole was knocked unconscious and LE theory is that Ron arrived just as the attack was starting. Forensic evidence shows that Ron was murdered first and that after murdering Nicole, Orenthal went back to Ron's body. Forensic evidence shows that Orenthal walked to the back gate.

[martin II]

Originally posted by Beebee
martin check your pm box :)


bee bee
i responded to your pm

thanks
martinII

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I've speculated that Nicole knew Ron was coming and when she heard the front gate, she stepped out to open it for him. Unfortunately, it was not Ron she'd heard but Orenthal. Forensic evidence is that Nicole was knocked unconscious and LE theory is that Ron arrived just as the attack was starting. Forensic evidence shows that Ron was murdered first and that after murdering Nicole, Orenthal went back to Ron's body. Forensic evidence shows that Orenthal walked to the back gate.


Can you elaborate on "she heard the front gate"?
How? Did he bang on it? How could she hear the front gate from the condo with no buzzer?

Do you think OJ was watching the place, or is it just a bizarre coincidence that he just happened to be there the minute Nicole came out to meet Ron, who was parked 50 feet away?

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Based on what we evidence, we can reasonably believe that Orenthal left by the back gate. We can speculate on which gate he used to enter the property. Personally, I believe he entered through the front gate.

Good Morning! If OJ left through the back gate, why would he have taken the chance of being seen walking down Bundy to the front gate in his knit cap, gloves, dark sweat suit, ugly azz shoes and the knife? It wasn't like it was 3:00 in the morning. People were out and about walking their dogs, etc. I would be very afraid that someone might recognize me. Thus, I think that OJ came and left through the back gate.

JMO and MOO!!

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8


Good Morning! If OJ left through the back gate, why would he have taken the chance of being seen walking down Bundy to the front gate in his knit cap, gloves, dark sweat suit, ugly azz shoes and the knife? It wasn't like it was 3:00 in the morning. People were out and about walking their dogs, etc. I would be very afraid that someone might recognize me. Thus, I think that OJ came and left through the back gate.

JMO and MOO!! and good morning to you. I don't know why I think he came through the front -- just that it makes more sense to me. (I'm not married to this theory) But, he had spied on her in the past -- at least two instances that we know of. One where her neighbor reported seeing someone standing and pacing on the sidewalk in front of her home staring at the house and the second one, when he said he watched Nicole and Keith through the front windows.

I don't think he would have been walking down the sidewalk in his cap and gloves. I doubt anyone seeing him at that time of night would have noticed the shoes and I'd almost bet he wasn't brandishing the knife and had he run into anyone, he would have aborted his plans. He could have slipped the cap and gloves on once he was inside the property. Unless he drove to Bundy wearing the cap and gloves, he had to put them on sometime.

[2L8 4A D8]

Geez! The OJ Simpson Murder Case 101 is now in session ~ ad nauseum!

:chicken: :chicken: :chicken:

JMO and MOO!!

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Beebee



Can you elaborate on "she heard the front gate"?
How? Did he bang on it? How could she hear the front gate from the condo with no buzzer?

Do you think OJ was watching the place, or is it just a bizarre coincidence that he just happened to be there the minute Nicole came out to meet Ron, who was parked 50 feet away?

I cannot speak for fbg, but I believe that it was possiblethat Nicole heard noises outside of her home and assumed that it was Ron arriving, and stepped outside to let him in. At that time, she may have been confronted by OJ.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II


i cannot remember any information that would not allow this to be possible. he could have given her a general time he would arrive and she could have been listening for the car horn.

consider these issues.

1. nicole had the house or room lit with candels as if she
expected company.
2. cora fishman testified that nicole or faye told her that nicole had
expressed some kind of interest in seeing what ron was about.

so she very well could have invited him to park and come in.
martin II

Was the borrowed car checked for evidence that may indicate if someone else was in the car?

Almost everyone who knew Nicole stated that she always had candles lit, so I don't see a connection between such an event and the expectation of company.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


I cannot speak for fbg, but I believe that it was possiblethat Nicole heard noises outside of her home and assumed that it was Ron arriving, and stepped outside to let him in. At that time, she may have been confronted by OJ. Had LE found a lighter or cigarette, I might have thought she stepped outside to have a smoke while waiting on Ron to show with the glasses. But alas, no such evidence so guess something else drew her outside.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
and good morning to you. I don't know why I think he came through the front -- just that it makes more sense to me. (I'm not married to this theory) But, he had spied on her in the past -- at least two instances that we know of. One where her neighbor reported seeing someone standing and pacing on the sidewalk in front of her home staring at the house and the second one, when he said he watched Nicole and Keith through the front windows.

I don't think he would have been walking down the sidewalk in his cap and gloves. I doubt anyone seeing him at that time of night would have noticed the shoes and I'd almost bet he wasn't brandishing the knife and had he run into anyone, he would have aborted his plans. He could have slipped the cap and gloves on once he was inside the property. Unless he drove to Bundy wearing the cap and gloves, he had to put them on sometime.

Please, of course OJ wouldn't be walking down Bundy in his cap and gloves and brandishing the knife. I just threw in the ugly azz shoes because they were part of his get-up. My post should have read "with" instead of "in". I honestly don't feel that he came in from the front because what was he carrying the cap, knife and gloves in? A brown bag?

JMO and MOO!!

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8


Please, of course OJ wouldn't be walking down Bundy in his cap and gloves and brandishing the knife. I just threw in the ugly azz shoes because they were part of his get-up. My post should have read "with" instead of "in". I honestly don't feel that he came in from the front because what was he carrying the cap, knife and gloves in? A brown bag?

JMO and MOO!! I don't know -- he may have had them stuffed in his pockets -- at any rate, I don't think anyone seeing him would have noticed. Like I said, I'm not married to the idea but by the same token, I don't believe Nicole would have left her front gate unlocked to a busy street while leaving a big knife out on the kitchen counter and bath water drawn. And, if she did leave the gate open, why was she back outside? Why not wait for Ron to knock/ring the bell?

Having said all that, I can understand how some posters believe the scenario where she has gone out to unlock the gate and started back to the door when Orenthal appears from the back.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
This is not true or at least not from anything I've ever read that bob has posted regarding wagner's site. Most reasonable people consider wagner's conclusions as to the crime to be fantasy and I for one consider them ludicrous.
fbg

bobs comments.

That fact destroyed Wagner's fantasy so he made up some ridiculous story that after Simpson entered his estate he went to the center of the driveway and stood and supposedly listened to see if he was somehow being seen or heard entering. Just more unrealistic fantasy from Wagner who would created his own explanations no matter how stupid, dumb, or unlikely so he could keep his failed scenario beliefs going. Sort of like you and your many excuses you use to deny the truth.

bobaugust


martin II

[fbgweezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by Beebee
Can you elaborate on "she heard the front gate"?
How? Did he bang on it? How could she hear the front gate from the condo with no buzzer?

Do you think OJ was watching the place, or is it just a bizarre coincidence that he just happened to be there the minute Nicole came out to meet Ron, who was parked 50 feet away? IF it took a key to open the front gate, I assume it could be heard unlocking. It was a metal gate after all.

I think Orenthal went to Nicole's with the intent to do her harm (BTW -- I haven't always thought that). Unfortunately for Ron, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't have a clue what you are asking about "who was parked 50 feet away."

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Why do you think he would have parked behind the condo & walked around the corner & up the front? I don't follow...... He was obsessing over her clothing that night -- probably thought she was seeing someone -- maybe he was going to come to the front to make sure no one else was there?

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II

fbg

bobs comments.

That fact destroyed Wagner's fantasy so he made up some ridiculous story that after Simpson entered his estate he went to the center of the driveway and stood and supposedly listened to see if he was somehow being seen or heard entering. Just more unrealistic fantasy from Wagner who would created his own explanations no matter how stupid, dumb, or unlikely so he could keep his failed scenario beliefs going. Sort of like you and your many excuses you use to deny the truth.

bobaugust


martin II The criticism is for wagner's conclusions, not the corroborated evidence and certainly not for his collection of pictures, maps, etc.

[martin II]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


Was the borrowed car checked for evidence that may indicate if someone else was in the car?

Almost everyone who knew Nicole stated that she always had candles lit, so I don't see a connection between such an event and the expectation of company.

Other than coras testimony about what nicoles intentions were as it pertains to ron.

martin II

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* IF it took a key to open the front gate, I assume it could be heard unlocking. It was a metal gate after all.

I think Orenthal went to Nicole's with the intent to do her harm (BTW -- I haven't always thought that). Unfortunately for Ron, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't have a clue what you are asking about "who was parked 50 feet away."

Ron was parked about 50 feet away.

So in your speculation, from inside the condo, Nicole hears the gate unlocking... she must have pretty good ears, and just assumes it was Ron? Doesn't look, just goes out? And then sees OJ and he attacks her and Ron walks up?

To me it makes more sense that somebody was watching and hiding, and as soon as Nicole saw Goldman's car, she went out.

jmo

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


Ron was parked about 50 feet away.

So in your speculation, from inside the condo, Nicole hears the gate unlocking... she must have pretty good ears, and just assumes it was Ron? Doesn't look, just goes out? And then sees OJ and he attacks her and Ron walks up?

To me it makes more sense that somebody was watching and hiding, and as soon as Nicole saw Goldman's car, she went out.

jmo Do you believe it was Orenthal watching and hiding?

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II


Other than coras testimony about what nicoles intentions were as it pertains to ron.

martin II

I'm failing to see the connection. It is possible that Nicole did have romantic intentions toward Ron that night, but the fact that she had candles lit has nothing to do with that whatsoever, because she always had candles lit.

In addition, her bed was unmade. As a woman, I can speak with a degree of certainty that most women don't leave a bed unmade when they are anticipating a romantic interlude.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


Ron was parked about 50 feet away.

So in your speculation, from inside the condo, Nicole hears the gate unlocking... she must have pretty good ears, and just assumes it was Ron? Doesn't look, just goes out? And then sees OJ and he attacks her and Ron walks up?

To me it makes more sense that somebody was watching and hiding, and as soon as Nicole saw Goldman's car, she went out.

jmo Ron had parked on a side street. I've never paid attention as to the distance but 50 feet doesn't sound far enough.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
[BI think Orenthal went to Nicole's with the intent to do her harm

Do you think he intended to kill her while his children were there-- risking that they could find their mother butchered?

With so many ways OJ could have harmed or even killed Nicole, I have always had a hard time believing he would pick the home where his kids were (was there ever any indication OJ did not love his kids?).

OJ might be arrogant, and at times a sob, but to slice up your childrens mother for them to see is beyond sick. I've never seen any indication he wasn't a good parent.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Do you believe it was Orenthal watching and hiding?

I am not convinced it was OJ.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Beebee


Do you think he intended to kill her while his children were there-- risking that they could find their mother butchered?

With so many ways OJ could have harmed or even killed Nicole, I have always had a hard time believing he would pick the home where his kids were (was there ever any indication OJ did not love his kids?).

OJ might be arrogant, and at times a sob, but to slice up your childrens mother for them to see is beyond sick. I've never seen any indication he wasn't a good parent.

In my opinion, a man that beats and stalks the mother of his children is not a good parent.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


Do you think he intended to kill her while his children were there-- risking that they could find their mother butchered?

With so many ways OJ could have harmed or even killed Nicole, I have always had a hard time believing he would pick the home where his kids were (was there ever any indication OJ did not love his kids?).

OJ might be arrogant, and at times a sob, but to slice up your childrens mother for them to see is beyond sick. I've never seen any indication he wasn't a good parent. Orenthal's life was about Orenthal. I doubt he gave the fact that his children were in the home that night even one thought. He didn't consider them when he was beating her before. He didn't consider them when he threatened the IRS. He didn't consider them when he told Nicole not to use the housekeeper as a sitter. Family and friends testified that Orenthal was an absentee dad.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


I am not convinced it was OJ. What's your theory on how his blood, hair, cap, glove and fibers got to the murder scene?

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Hate to say it, but 50 ft doesn't sound unreasonable to me. The condo is/was 2nd from the corner & it is very close to Dorothy. Oh, okay -- I just figured had it been close to the condo, police would have found it sooner.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


I'm failing to see the connection. It is possible that Nicole did have romantic intentions toward Ron that night, but the fact that she had candles lit has nothing to do with that whatsoever, because she always had candles lit.

In addition, her bed was unmade. As a woman, I can speak with a degree of certainty that most women don't leave a bed unmade when they are anticipating a romantic interlude.

Good point about the bed..... but, maybe it was a spur of the moment thing to invite him in, and maybe she wasn't planning on taking him to the bedroom just yet..... just wanted to get to know him a bit better.

I always wondered about the bath. Maybe she was planning on a quiet night to herself, changed and put her robe on, then when the glasses thing came up and she knew Ron was coming over, she decided to get dressed and light some candles and invite Ron in. Why not put the black dress back on? Makes sense to me.

Along the same lines, as a person who lights a lot of candles, I would not light them in the living room if I was going to be in the bath. I think Ron's upcoming vist changed her mind about the bath. imo

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Ron had parked on a side street. I've never paid attention as to the distance but 50 feet doesn't sound far enough.

Martin posted the info a page or so back.... estimated 50-75 feet.

[Beebee]

Martin- check your pm's again.

:)

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* You are right -- sadly, no one does know. Except that is for the murderer who left his blood, footprints, cap, glove and fibers at the murder scene. Your hypothesis that there were multiple killers is wrong. Had there have been others there, there would have been evidence. There was none.

As you've posted in the past, the street and bushes were full of murderers that night. But I guess if one of them saw her sitting in Ron's car, he/they wouldn't have come forward to tell LE.

Rons wounds.
from the me report the wounds that were the fatal wounds were administered first or almost first and exactly to the area of Rons body that would cause them to be fatal. Then there were what has been called the 'Testing wounds " to his cheek area to see if they would cause bleeding as a indication that he was dead or dying fast. this does not sound like these stabbing were accomplished by a amature that was attempting to kill somone with a knife for the first time.

In the crime scene photos at bundy (wagners site) there are what appear to be smudges on the ground as if the bloody ground had been wipped with a cloth or something to wipe out foot prints or something else.
martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


Martin posted the info a page or so back.... estimated 50-75 feet. this is from martin's post: "so i just make a guess that he had to walk about 50--75 feet to get from the car to the condo. I GUESS." Unfortunately, not all of us take what martin has to say at face value and I prefer proof. I'll research and see what I come up with.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Beebee


Good point about the bed..... but, maybe it was a spur of the moment thing to invite him in, and maybe she wasn't planning on taking him to the bedroom just yet..... just wanted to get to know him a bit better.

I always wondered about the bath. Maybe she was planning on a quiet night to herself, changed and put her robe on, then when the glasses thing came up and she knew Ron was coming over, she decided to get dressed and light some candles and invite Ron in. Why not put the black dress back on? Makes sense to me.

Along the same lines, as a person who lights a lot of candles, I would not light them in the living room if I was going to be in the bath. I think Ron's upcoming vist changed her mind about the bath. imo

I also light many candles, and I do keep my candles lit throughout my home when bathing. I love the way it smells and looks when I get out of the tub and walk through the other areas of my home.

I think it depends on your comfort level. My mother always lectures me about having my candles lit while unattended, but I'm not concerned.

I think that it is fairly impossible to tell what Nicole's plans were that evening in regard to Ron. Speculation is the best that any of us can do.

[martin II]

Originally posted by SirRalston
Does anybody know anything about the video being released in Europe about Nicole and Ron's murder? Supposidly, Glen Rogers is the main suspect. I would like to get that video if possible, if anybody knows anything, I'd appreciate the info.

sir ralston

i have some hot info on gleen rogers
check your pm

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Do you believe it was Orenthal watching and hiding?

i don't

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


i don't I know your sentiments -- I was asking Beebee.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by martin II


sir ralston

i have some hot info on gleen rogers
check your pm


That video is called Serpent Rising. It can be purchased on DVD- I was thinking about getting it. They claim they also reveal things about the missing phone records... but I haven't watched it so I don't know what they reveal.

Come to think of it.... what IS the story with those allegedly missing phone records?

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee



That video is called Serpent Rising. It can be purchased on DVD- I was thinking about getting it. They claim they also reveal things about the missing phone records... but I haven't watched it so I don't know what they reveal.

Come to think of it.... what IS the story with those allegedly missing phone records? You should have bolded and underlined the word "alledgedly" -- I think the dog ate them.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


What missing phone records? LOL -- when they can't make the evidence fit their fantasies, they have to resort to 'alleged' evidence. IF only they could learn that you don't base a case on what evidence there isn't but rather on what evidence there is; i.e., Orenthal's blood, footprints, hair, cap, glove, fibers at the the murder scene.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
this is from martin's post: "so i just make a guess that he had to walk about 50--75 feet to get from the car to the condo. I GUESS." Unfortunately, not all of us take what martin has to say at face value and I prefer proof. I'll research and see what I come up with.

fbg

palinka (sp) lived down bundy south of dorothy st. about halfway through that block.

she testrified that her condo was 75 feet from nicoles . she said she had measured it.

From that i estimated that it is about 50 ft from nicoles to dorothy
i added another 25 feet as a estimate to where rons car MAY have been parked.

let me know the distance you come up with.

you may want to consider keeping your negative comments to yourself.
martin II

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Orenthal's life was about Orenthal. I doubt he gave the fact that his children were in the home that night even one thought. He didn't consider them when he was beating her before. He didn't consider them when he threatened the IRS. He didn't consider them when he told Nicole not to use the housekeeper as a sitter. Family and friends testified that Orenthal was an absentee dad.

I second that. I have always had a real big problem with him making them move. He didn't care about his kids when he was trying to make Nicole move.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


I think that it is fairly impossible to tell what Nicole's plans were that evening in regard to Ron. Speculation is the best that any of us can do.

True.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


I second that. I have always had a real big problem with him making them move. He didn't care about his kids when he was trying to make Nicole move. I also thought it was very odd that Orenthal said he wouldn't let Nicole and the kids move back in to Rockingham during the reconciliation because if it didn't work out, they'd just have to move again and then he tells her he's writing a letter to the IRS to report her so she and the kids will lose their home.

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by Beebee



That video is called Serpent Rising. It can be purchased on DVD- I was thinking about getting it. They claim they also reveal things about the missing phone records... but I haven't watched it so I don't know what they reveal.

Come to think of it.... what IS the story with those allegedly missing phone records?

Hi Beebee,

My problem with the phone records is that they try and state that the call came in AFTER 11 (This all started because her mother messed up the time of her last call). However, the dog was found before 11. So, I do not believe it. Also, they tried really hard to get this put into court. They have the transcripts out there. It did not fly.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by socaldiva


What missing phone records?

The ones OJ tried to get a court order to get. Supposidly they show a later call from Nicoles mom?

I don't know much about it, but did see some things online that OJ went to court to get them. He must have had a reason.

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I also thought it was very odd that Orenthal said he wouldn't let Nicole and the kids move back in to Rockingham during the reconciliation because if it didn't work out, they'd just have to move again.

Right! But, then he'd make them move out of their condo?! He was mad at her and was trying to piss her off. That's why he sent the letter. I just think that it's pretty crappy to do when it involves upheaving the kids.

[tazzybaby]

I am so excited about our new OJ forum!!

Woo Hoo!

:cool:

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Beebee


The ones OJ tried to get a court order to get. Supposidly they show a later call from Nicoles mom?

I don't know much about it, but did see some things online that OJ went to court to get them. He must have had a reason.

The phone records that OJ attempted to sue the Browns for are ,in fact, the same records made avilable in his criminal trial.

The defense reviewed the phone records and stipulated that there was no later call made to Nicole from Juditha Brown on June 12, 1994.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by socaldiva


I know, I know. I'm guessing the "missing phone records" are the local calls that don't show up on the bill :tongue:


No, you're not experiencing a freakish flashback to 1996. The footballer-turned-actor-turned-acquitted Defendant of the Century will go before a federal judge in Los Angeles Monday, in another attempt to clear his name from the slayings of ex-wife Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ronald Goldman.

This time around, Simpson is battling GTE to release phone records that he claims will give him a solid alibi in the case. According to APBNews, Simpson believes phone records belonging to Nicole's parents will show they made a phone call to her at 11 p.m.--an hour and a half later than they testified they last talked to their daughter.

http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,6350,00.html

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


The ones OJ tried to get a court order to get. Supposidly they show a later call from Nicoles mom?

I don't know much about it, but did see some things online that OJ went to court to get them. He must have had a reason. All of the phone records were stipulated to by both the prosecution and defense.

Orenthal's reason for this smoke screen was his SODDI defense.

[tazzybaby]

The latest article about OJ.....

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/entertainment/tittletattle/article_21221699.shtml

And, might I add......YUCK!

I am sick and tired of hearing him joke about the circumstances regarding Nicole's murder.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
All of the phone records were stipulated to by both the prosecution and defense.

Orenthal's reason for this smoke screen was his SODDI defense.

Does anyone have access to the trial transcripts when this stipulation took place? I know it did-- but wasn't marcia clark accused of "pulling a fast one" with that?

Seems wierd to me that OJ went to court to get what was available in his own trial. What did his defense say about the stipulation?

[martin II]

i would like to add.
the testing wounds technique is used by professional killer as a means to make sure the victim has no chance of surviving before they leave. i doubt that the average person would have reason to know about this to do it.

as i have said before only a profesional killer would know exactly where to make the fatal cuts.

if it is ever proven that a killer/s other than oj killed these people,
then we will all have to admit that all of ojs blood drops,cap,fibers and foot prints were in fact planted.

martin II

[fbgweezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by Beebee
http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,6350,00.html interesting article -- written 2000 and still no proof of missing phone calls -- hmmm. This part was interesting, "Simpson also tried unsuccessfully last year to get the phone records through a Texas court, where GTE is based. And while prosecutors and Simpson's former defense team both received transcripts, but Simpson's former attorneys also have refused to provide them, APBNews reports.." Wonder why his own guys didn't share with him?

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* interesting article -- written 2000 and still no proof of missing phone calls -- hmmm. This part was interesting, "Simpson also tried unsuccessfully last year to get the phone records through a Texas court, where GTE is based. And while prosecutors and Simpson's former defense team both received transcripts, but Simpson's former attorneys also have refused to provide them, APBNews reports.." Wonder why his own guys didn't share with him?


I know.

Very strange. :shrug:

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Beebee


Does anyone have access to the trial transcripts when this stipulation took place? I know it did-- but wasn't marcia clark accused of "pulling a fast one" with that?

Seems wierd to me that OJ went to court to get what was available in his own trial. What did his defense say about the stipulation?

I was just looking at the transcripts several days ago, and will see if I can relocate them.

In addition, it is worthy to note that the phone records were also made available in the civil trial in which the defense also agreed that no later phone calls were made to Nicole from the Brown residence.

[fbgweezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
if it is ever proven that a killer/s other than oj killed these people, LOL -- thank you martin for the laugh.

[Beebee]

Gotta go get some work done..... look forward to seeing you all on the new OJ forum :D

:seeya:

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I also thought it was very odd that Orenthal said he wouldn't let Nicole and the kids move back in to Rockingham during the reconciliation because if it didn't work out, they'd just have to move again and then he tells her he's writing a letter to the IRS to report her so she and the kids will lose their home.

i was reading some of katos testimony last night.

it seems that during feburary to march 1994 the family(nicole oj and the kids) took three najor vacations togeather. cabo san lucas--miami and hawaii.
that oj was staying 5 nights a week at nicoles with her and the children.
martin II

[fbgweezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
that oj was staying 5 nights a week at nicoles with her and the children. Not what Orenthal's statement said.

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby
The latest article about OJ.....

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/entertainment/tittletattle/article_21221699.shtml

And, might I add......YUCK!

I am sick and tired of hearing him joke about the circumstances regarding Nicole's murder.

tazzy
if this is the sex video i don't think oj had anything to do with this
martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


tazzy
if this is the sex video i don't think oj had anything to do with this
martin II and didn't you say you watched it, martin? so you would be able to identify Orenthal in all his glory.

[fbgweezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
it seems that during feburary to march 1994 the family(nicole oj and the kids) took three najor vacations togeather. cabo san lucas--miami and hawaii.
that oj was staying 5 nights a week at nicoles with her and the children. 'to' march -- so does this mean February?

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* Not what Orenthal's statement said.

fbg

did you do your research on how far rons car was from nicoles condo????? i would be interested to see your results.
martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

did you do your research on how far rons car was from nicoles condo????? i would be interested to see your results.
martin II Haven't had time but I will.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
and didn't you say you watched it, martin? so you would be able to identify Orenthal in all his glory.

i saw enough of the video to know that the naked man was not oj. i also saw his lawyers response.

i don't think oj was in any glory as i do not belive he was the person having the sex.
fng

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Haven't had time but I will.

it does not require any special effort.
just look at a picture of dorothy and bundy and measure.
martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


it does not require any special effort.
just look at a picture of dorothy and bundy and measure.
martin II LOL -- I think I may need a little more than that.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
LOL -- I think I may need a little more than that.

fbg

look at the same drawing that you viewed when you realized that hedstra was standing midway the alley behind nicoles condo
when he heard hey hey hey.
it may have a scale on it.
martin II

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


i saw enough of the video to know that the naked man was not oj. i also saw his lawyers response.

i don't think oj was in any glory as i do not belive he was the person having the sex.
fng

Hi Martin,

I haven't seen the video. I did see the front page of badoj.com. But, I didn't verify if I thought it was him or not.

But, I will say this. I know that Yale Galanter would defend him until his dying breath. That is what he is paid to do. They are also friends. So, just because a lawyer says that it is not him does not mean it's true.

However, I do find it odd that all of a sudden all this stuff starts coming out about OJ. I believe that this is completely planned. I believe that he is slowly trying to get his "life" back. I believe that he had a hand in when the "juiced" show came out and the "porn" video came out. There have been several interviews recently. He is slowly trying to make a come back. But, it won't be because he was such a great athlete. It will be because he is infamous for murder. Why such interest in him? He got away with murder. Why do people still want his autograph? Aside from the FEW hardcore Football fans/collectors, it is only because of phsyco curiosity. He got away with murder. I believe there will always be people out there who try and stand up for Nicole and Ron. So, I believe that he will never get his "life" back.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II


it does not require any special effort.
just look at a picture of dorothy and bundy and measure.
martin II

I believe it does require special effort if you are trying to ensure that your research is accurate.

[Kayleighjo]

Originally posted by tazzybaby

However, I do find it odd that all of a sudden all this stuff starts coming out about OJ. I believe that this is completely planned.

Hey Tazzy!

Agreed. It all seems to coincide with the 12 year anniversay of Nicole's death.

12 years later and he still can't stand when she's got attention!

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Hi Martin,

I haven't seen the video. I did see the front page of badoj.com. But, I didn't verify if I thought it was him or not.

But, I will say this. I know that Yale Galanter would defend him until his dying breath. That is what he is paid to do. They are also friends. So, just because a lawyer says that it is not him does not mean it's true.

However, I do find it odd that all of a sudden all this stuff starts coming out about OJ. I believe that this is completely planned. I believe that he is slowly trying to get his "life" back. I believe that he had a hand in when the "juiced" show came out and the "porn" video came out. There have been several interviews recently. He is slowly trying to make a come back. But, it won't be because he was such a great athlete. It will be because he is infamous for murder. Why such interest in him? He got away with murder. Why do people still want his autograph? Aside from the FEW hardcore Football fans/collectors, it is only because of phsyco curiosity. He got away with murder. I believe there will always be people out there who try and stand up for Nicole and Ron. So, I believe that he will never get his "life" back.

tazzy
about a week ago i read , i think it was the drudge report web site that the produsers and marketers of that video had sold 27,000 copies.

there is something like a underground video business world that makes money on these fake type videos. videoing famous
people in normal cituations and then adding doubles in some trashy activities. most people know these are fake and just ignore these offerings.

yesterday i got a spam e-mail with about 25 pictures of what is suppose to be Angelie Joile most in hustler type poses of women.

oj makes money as a golf celebrity in the carribean islands and other ventures as you say autograph items. i see no reason that he would make a sex video like this one.

Florida is a right to work state so i see no reason that oj would not try to rekindle some resemblance of his career just because there are some people that have hate in their hearts for him. Denise says she has gotten over her hatered of oj.
martin II

[Kayleighjo]

Originally posted by Beebee


Do you think he intended to kill her while his children were there-- risking that they could find their mother butchered?

With so many ways OJ could have harmed or even killed Nicole, I have always had a hard time believing he would pick the home where his kids were (was there ever any indication OJ did not love his kids?).

OJ might be arrogant, and at times a sob, but to slice up your childrens mother for them to see is beyond sick. I've never seen any indication he wasn't a good parent.

Yeah, I do think he intended to kill her with the children there. Do you know how many cases there are where men kill their wives in their very own homes right in front of their children? It's insane the things that happen.

There was one story, I have to track down the name, where this woman had left her abusive husband and was remarried. She had custody of the 11 year old son that she had with her abusive ex-husband and was currently pregnant with her new husband's child.

Anyway, the ex-husband found where she was residing and broke in. He confessed to police that as he raped her and beat her (knowing that she was pregnant) that she told him that she was expecting their son home any moment and begged him to stop for the sake of not subjecting him to such a horrific thing to witness. He told police that in his rage he just didn't care. After raping her and beating her, he confessed to killing her with a hammer and leaving her body in the kitchen.

The son and new husband came home together and found her in the kitchen. One year later, the son killed himself. He left a note stating that he could not function and deal with what he had witnessed when he found his mom.

[Kayleighjo]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


In my opinion, a man that beats and stalks the mother of his children is not a good parent.

:beer: :beer: :beer:

[martin II]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


I believe it does require special effort if you are trying to ensure that your research is accurate.

most maps have a scale on it. that makes it very simple to measure distance. one does not have to skilled in map reading.

by the way how far do you believe ron had to walk back to nicoles condo.
martin II

[martin II]

tazzy

footbal/ sports memorbilia business is not a small group of rabid fans. it is much bigger than that description.
martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

look at the same drawing that you viewed when you realized that hedstra was standing midway the alley behind nicoles condo
when he heard hey hey hey.
it may have a scale on it.
martin II You mean when I realized Heidstra was across the street in an alley in front of Nicole's condo?

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


tazzy
about a week ago i read , i think it was the drudge report web site that the produsers and marketers of that video had sold 27,000 copies.

*snip* for space

Florida is a right to work state so i see no reason that oj would not try to rekindle some resemblance of his career just because there are some people that have hate in their hearts for him. Denise says she has gotten over her hatered of oj.
martin II

Hi Martin,

I don't know if it's him or not. I don't really care if it is or not. But, there has been speculation for a long time that he did this video. He has denied it. He also denied that there was ever a "Juiced" show. He lied about that. That video just recently surfaced and it's from back when he was denying it. I don't believe him at all about anything. I believe that both of these were done a while back. I also believe that he had a hand in them being released now. Even if it isn't him on the video it is still publicity. The ole saying is "any publicity is good publicity". I think he misses being admired by all. Like I said, he has a very small following but nothing like before. He will never have that again. It's called Karma.

I don't have hate in my heart for him. I hate what he did. He does make me sick at times. I firmly believe that he is paying for his crime now and he will be judged by a higher power. I do think it is in VERY BAD TASTE that he joke about anything to do with his trial. That is the mother of his children. Of course, he didn't respect her then I don't know why I excpect him to now.

:shrug:

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II
tazzy

footbal/ sports memorbilia business is not a small group of rabid fans. it is much bigger than that description.
martin II

Martin,

I didn't say rabid....I said hardcore. And, yes, I know that the Sports collectors is not a really small business. They aren't large enough for him to be back in good graces because of his talents though. However, I also know that they are pretty much all he has left. The hardcore football fans. Not all football fans.

karma

:cool:

[martin II]

tazzy
some people buy those goods because they like oj as a sports hero. they could care less about these trials.

Then others believe oj was wrongly accused and are happy to supppost him year in and year out by purchasing those goods and inviting him to these golf outings.

ps
i think the producers of those type videos put them out at the most opportune time for interest and profit.
cnn--fox and the others do the same. they had stories and promos all over the place on the anniversary.
martin II

[tazzybaby]

Here is something to help visualize the whole conversation regarding the map.

http://smartfellowspress.com/High%20Points/Bundy%20Goraham%20Curve.htm

This should help everyone understand where and how far it was.

:seeya:

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Martin,

I didn't say rabid....I said hardcore. And, yes, I know that the Sports collectors is not a really small business. They aren't large enough for him to be back in good graces because of his talents though. However, I also know that they are pretty much all he has left. The hardcore football fans. Not all football fans.

karma

:cool:

tazzy

ok hardcore.

these current and former sports guys can make $30.000---$50,000 or more for several hours of signing a day. shows are all over the country all year long. baseball stuff sell at footbal shows and hocky stuff sell at basket ball shows etc etc
martin II

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II
tazzy
some people buy those goods because they like oj as a sports hero. they could care less about these trials.

Then others believe oj was wrongly accused and are happy to supppost him year in and year out by purchasing those goods and inviting him to these golf outings.

ps
i think the producers of those type videos put them out at the most opportune time for interest and profit.
cnn--fox and the others do the same. they had stories and promos all over the place on the anniversary.
martin II

Hi Martin,

I haven't ever seen anyone say they buy only because they like OJ as a sports hero. They buy because they have a collection. They buy because of who he was. Not because they like him now.

I also don't remember hearing anyone say they believe he was injustly accused and are trying to help him out. They are helping themselves out maybe.

PS
I think that OJ signed a contract and it wouldn't be released unless he knew about it. And, as far as the sex tape goes....it would have been better to have it sent out at the 10 year anniversary when there was WAY MORE publicity. It seems to me it is publicity trying to be created.

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


tazzy

ok hardcore.

these current and former sports guys can make $30.000---$50,000 or more for several hours of signing a day. shows are all over the country all year long. baseball stuff sell at footbal shows and hocky stuff sell at basket ball shows etc etc
martin II

Hi Martin,

I just didn't want you to say that I thought they were rabid. I don't. They are hardcore and most would do anything in their power to get a signature to complete or enhance their collection. That's different than just a fan coming up and telling him that he is their hero and can they get his autograph. That is way different. Just imagine how much he could make if he wasn't tainted? Or that he didnt' owe so much money?

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Hi Martin,

I just didn't want you to say that I thought they were rabid. I don't. They are hardcore and most would do anything in their power to get a signature to complete or enhance their collection. That's different than just a fan coming up and telling him that he is their hero and can they get his autograph. That is way different. Just imagine how much he could make if he wasn't tainted? Or that he didnt' owe so much money?
tazzy
i agree with your post. but remember people request autographs from all kinds of people good and bad. it is about money.
martin II

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II

tazzy
i agree with your post. but remember people request autographs from all kinds of people good and bad. it is about money.
martin II

I agree that it is about money. And, that was definately my point earlier that people get autographs from good and bad people. However, if he could rekindle his image or even reinvent it then it would be about MORE money. I don't think he will ever be able to rekindle his image. The only image he will ever have will be of a murderer who got away with it.

Karma

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by socaldiva


:beer: for karma :D

LOL!

I wondered if I was getting on everyone's nerves with that...lol



To Karma...

:beer:

Here! Here!

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II

fbg

bobs comments.

That fact destroyed Wagner's fantasy so he made up some ridiculous story that after Simpson entered his estate he went to the center of the driveway and stood and supposedly listened to see if he was somehow being seen or heard entering. Just more unrealistic fantasy from Wagner who would created his own explanations no matter how stupid, dumb, or unlikely so he could keep his failed scenario beliefs going. Sort of like you and your many excuses you use to deny the truth.

bobaugust


martin II



martin II, thanks for posting my words again. I have no idea what point you're trying to make in doing so, but I stand by what I said. It shows the ridiculous lengths Wagner went to trying to make his failed scenario work.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


Rons wounds.
from the me report the wounds that were the fatal wounds were administered first or almost first and exactly to the area of Rons body that would cause them to be fatal. Then there were what has been called the 'Testing wounds " to his cheek area to see if they would cause bleeding as a indication that he was dead or dying fast. this does not sound like these stabbing were accomplished by a amature that was attempting to kill somone with a knife for the first time.




martin II, It's obvious you have no expertise to know the difference between a professional killer and an amateur killer.

The fact is that the way Ron was killed and the so called testing wounds in the opinion of real experts is that is evidence that it was an amateur doing the killing, not a professional.

The killer had no idea what it took to kill someone. He just continued to stab and cut as many times as he could until Ron could no longer fight back, and then dropped him on the ground to bleed to death. Even then he wasn't sure he was dead so he returned to check.

bobaugust

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


I agree that it is about money. And, that was definately my point earlier that people get autographs from good and bad people. However, if he could rekindle his image or even reinvent it then it would be about MORE money. I don't think he will ever be able to rekindle his image. The only image he will ever have will be of a murderer who got away with it.

Karma

tazzy
i am sure if oj had not been black balled by the white business community and put on 'DO NOT USE' his income would be higher than it is now. at his current level he is at least equal to some small size company ceos in yearly income.

we all have to deal with the cards delt to us. it appears that oj is adjusting well.

i have noticed that the hip hop community does not seem to shun oj as much as the estsablished business community.

did you know that oj was partly responsible for forcing the NFL
to set up the retirement system for players. There was no program before he started the campaign to get it installed.

that may have been the greatest move of his career. don't you think?
martin II

[fbgweezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
did you know that oj was partly responsible for forcing the NFL
to set up the retirement system for players. There was no program before he started the campaign to get it installed.
:confused:

[martin II]

Originally posted by bobaugust



martin II, It's obvious you have no expertise to know the difference between a professional killer and an amateur killer.

The fact is that the way Ron was killed and the so called testing wounds in the opinion of real experts is that is evidence that it was an amateur doing the killing, not a professional.

The killer had no idea what it took to kill someone. He just continued to stab and cut as many times as he could until Ron could no longer fight back, and then dropped him on the ground to bleed to death. Even then he wasn't sure he was dead so he returned to check.

bobaugust

bob

then you must dissagree with the me.

if what you say is true, WHY WERE THE FIRST WOUNDS THE FATAL WOUNDS.


PS
Does your web site have a song titled "ol black oj" if so what is the page.
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* :confused:

fbg
did you figure out rons time yet???????
martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg
did you figure out rons time yet???????
martin II I wasn't trying to figure out ron's time. where did that come from?

[fbgweezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
Does your web site have a song titled "ol black oj" if so what is the page. You can probably get a link to this via howard stern or parady's on the internet.

[martin II]

Originally posted by bobaugust




martin II, thanks for posting my words again. I have no idea what point you're trying to make in doing so, but I stand by what I said. It shows the ridiculous lengths Wagner went to trying to make his failed scenario work.

bobaugust

bob
no offense.

fbg posted that NO ONE on this thread had ever made those kind of comments about wagners site.

i gave her one of your comments to help her understand as you make these kind of comments about wagner all the time except when you need to quote him to support your guesses.
martin II

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by fbgweezer

*Snip*

Then wouldn't Orenthal's footprints have been coming into the courtyard from the sidewalk instead of walking away from the bodies going toward the back gate?


And if he came in the back gate, how did he get in?


1st . NO! He only stepped in the blood when the passing motorist (IMO) yelled "hey hey hey" at the dog in the street.

2nd. OJ may have jumped the gate, causing the cut to his finger!

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by nettathirty



1st . NO! He only stepped in the blood when the passing motorist (IMO) yelled "hey hey hey" at the dog in the street.

2nd. OJ may have jumped the gate, causing the cut to his finger! :lol:

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
You mean when I realized Heidstra was across the street in an alley in front of Nicole's condo?

Bundy is in front of nicoles condo. it is a major through street NOT A ALLEY.
i see you have not understood yet.

there is nicoles condo on the west side of bundy.
there ia bundy that runs north and south
the house directly across from nicole is on the EAST side of bundy
behind this house is the east alley that is the spot where Heidstra stood when he said he heard hey hey hey at 10:40pm.

this is also the same 10:40 pm that kato and his girlfriend said KATO heard the bumps against his wall.

martin II

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by Beebee


Martin,

How long would it take for Ron to park and walk around the corner to the condo? Seconds?
Also, how did Nicole know he was there? Is it thought he rang a buzzer, or would she need to be watching for him?


What proof is there that Ron entered from the front gate?

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I wasn't trying to figure out ron's time. where did that come from?

i see you did not pay attention before jumping in.

when you calculate the distance you can then estimate the time to walk that distance.
is it really that difficult ??gees
martin II

[fbgweezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
i see you have not understood yet. Oh, I understood where the alley was -- I think you are the one confused. This is from your earlier post: "fbg

look at the same drawing that you viewed when you realized that hedstra was standing midway the alley behind nicoles condo
when he heard hey hey hey. it may have a scale on it. martin II"

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


i see you did not pay attention before jumping in.

when you calculate the distance you can then estimate the time to walk that distance.
is it really that difficult ??gees
martin II I'd have to be interested in it to do the exercise. If you and Beebee want to debate/discuss how long it took Ron to walk from his car -- go for it.

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by nettathirty



What proof is there that Ron entered from the front gate? How do you think he got there?

[martin II]

fbg

look at the house just above figure 1 on the map tazzy posted.

the owner of that house said she measured from nicols condo to her house and it was 75 feet. you can do the rest. i guess.

martin II

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II
fbg

look at the house just above figure 1 on the map tazzy posted.

the owner of that house said she measured from nicols condo to her house and it was 75 feet. you can do the rest. i guess.

martin II You know martin, I disrespect your knowledge of this case so much that I do not trust anything you say. I will do my own research as to the distance and location of the car Ron was driving that night. When I have completed my research and have evidence to support my findings, I will post it. In the meantime, you need to back off.

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


tazzy
i am sure if oj had not been black balled by the white business community and put on 'DO NOT USE' his income would be higher than it is now. at his current level he is at least equal to some small size company ceos in yearly income.

*snip*

that may have been the greatest move of his career. don't you think?
martin II

Martin,

He was black balled because he is a murderer. No one wants to hear his low class jokes regarding the murders. There isn't a market for him because he is a killer. It isn't a case of black balling. It is a case of murder. If the "white" businesses tried to put him on they would be bombarded by negative comments by the audience. We (the people who believe he is guilty) don't want anything to do with him.

The only reason he is as wealthy as he is is because of his very lucky career move as you mentioned. If it weren't for his pension he would be bankrupt. Lucky. Very lucky. And, I did know that he pushed for that in the NFL.

I don't know about adjusting well. I'm sure it kills his soul that he isn't as great in the eyes of the public as he once was. Adjusting well? He went to court over Road Rage and stealing cable. He's had the law called on him by his own child. He called the law on his girlfriend (who looks oddly like Nicole). I don't know if I would classify that as adjusting well.

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by nettathirty



What proof is there that Ron entered from the front gate?

Hi Netta,

The proof that he came in the front gate is that the things that he brought to Nicole were right there where he was found. The buzzer to let her know that he was there is at the front gate. It is the most likely scenerio.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I'd have to be interested in it to do the exercise. If you and Beebee want to debate/discuss how long it took Ron to walk from his car -- go for it.

fbg

bee bee and i are not debating the issue.
maby you realized that the estimates were good and just cain;'t admit you were wrong.

martin II
???

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Martin,

He was black balled because he is a murderer. No one wants to hear his low class jokes regarding the murders. There isn't a market for him because he is a killer. It isn't a case of black balling. It is a case of murder. If the "white" businesses tried to put him on they would be bombarded by negative comments by the audience. We (the people who believe he is guilty) don't want anything to do with him.

The only reason he is as wealthy as he is is because of his very lucky career move as you mentioned. If it weren't for his pension he would be bankrupt. Lucky. Very lucky. And, I did know that he pushed for that in the NFL.

I don't know about adjusting well. I'm sure it kills his soul that he isn't as great in the eyes of the public as he once was. Adjusting well? He went to court over Road Rage and stealing cable. He's had the law called on him by his own child. He called the law on his girlfriend (who looks oddly like Nicole). I don't know if I would classify that as adjusting well.



Tazzy

He was found " Not Guilty" in a Criminal Court, which means he's not guilty of anything CRIMINAL. Which includes, but is not limited to murder! He was found "Liable" in a Civil Trial. It's wasn't court, and the outcome wasn't "Guilt or Innocent"..

[fbgweezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

bee bee and i are not debating the issue.
maby you realized that the estimates were good and just cain;'t admit you were wrong.

martin II
??? Like I said, I'll do my own research. We know that you cannot and do not get things exactly right. There is a propensity by the NGs to twist facts to fit their theories. I never have a problem admitting when I'm wrong. Example: I thought Orenthal murdered Nicole in a fit of rage but then changed my mind.

[martin II]

tazzy

i understand you position.

the things you listed oj was involved in:

road rage; there may be 5,00 cases of road rage a day in the
u.s.a.
stealing cable: illegal cable boxes and cards is a big
business in the u.s.a.

daughter called police: she got pissed with him but seems to be
doing well now.
called police on his girlfriend: relationship squabble.

it is the american way i guess.
martinII

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Like I said, I'll do my own research. We know that you cannot and do not get things exactly right. There is a propensity by the NGs to twist facts to fit their theories. I never have a problem admitting when I'm wrong. Example: I thought Orenthal murdered Nicole in a fit of rage but then changed my mind.

look at the map tazzy posted. then you can trust your self.
martin II

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Hi Netta,

The proof that he came in the front gate is that the things that he brought to Nicole were right there where he was found. The buzzer to let her know that he was there is at the front gate. It is the most likely scenerio.


Tazzy,

That proves he entered through the front gate, are you sure?

[tazzybaby]

Okay guys and girls, the forum is open and I was the first one to post. :tongue:

Please put your replies to me over there. And, I will be happy to reply. I am ready for our forum.

Woo Hoo!

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by fbgweezer

*Snipped*


Forensic evidence shows that Ron was murdered first and that after murdering Nicole, Orenthal went back to Ron's body.

Forensic evidence shows that Orenthal walked to the back gate.

1. This was a theory based on blood, found on the buttom of RG's shoe, but forensic didn't play a role in that theory!

2. The word forensic is being tossed around sort of loosely don't you think.. The bloody shoe print, not science tells us someone exited "stage left"..

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by nettathirty



Tazzy,

That proves he entered through the front gate, are you sure?

Hi Netta,

It proves to me that he did. Can you give me another plausible scenerio?

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by nettathirty




Tazzy

He was found " Not Guilty" in a Criminal Court, which means he's not guilty of anything CRIMINAL. Which includes, but is not limited to murder! He was found "Liable" in a Civil Trial. It's wasn't court, and the outcome wasn't "Guilt or Innocent"..

After he testified in the civil trial he was done. No one would touch him. He was proven to be a liar. Who wants to market a liar/murderer? There isn't a market there any longer. OJ did that to himself. It wasn't some big conspiracy to get him black balled.

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II
tazzy

i understand you position.

the things you listed oj was involved in:

road rage; there may be 5,00 cases of road rage a day in the
u.s.a.
stealing cable: illegal cable boxes and cards is a big
business in the u.s.a.

daughter called police: she got pissed with him but seems to be
doing well now.
called police on his girlfriend: relationship squabble.

it is the american way i guess.
martinII

I don't think that is well adjusted. And, I also don't think it's normal. Does it happen? Yes. Does it happen so many times to one person? Hardly never.

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Hi Netta,

It proves to me that he did. Can you give me another plausible scenerio?

Tazzy,

Mr August, believes Goldman arrived at Bundy or Dorothy were his borrowed car was found parked at or about 10:30p.. If this is true Goldman, Mandel and Aaronson should have meet up together on Dorothy and Bundy on the corner or near the car on Dorothy.. Mandel and Aaronson turned right from Bundy onto Dorothy at or about 10:30p. RGoldman should have been parking or walking pass them, if he came through the front gate!

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by tazzybaby

*Snipped*

After he testified in the civil trial he was done.




You mean he was done after the criminal trial or before the civil trial ever started?

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by socaldiva


As I recall Heistra held the unusual barking at 10:35. Mandel/Aaronson could have missed seeing Ron by a minute or two. I doubt the walkers were looking at their watches. They probable gave estimates. jmo I don't know why you think they need to have passed one another.


Socal

I don't think they passed each other at all. I believe Goldman could have easily entered Nicoles condo from the alley, and was dead when the walkers passed by the condo!

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* Oh, I understood where the alley was -- I think you are the one confused. This is from your earlier post: "fbg

look at the same drawing that you viewed when you realized that hedstra was standing midway the alley behind nicoles condo
when he heard hey hey hey. it may have a scale on it. martin II" \

fbg
you do try to be tricky

you argued for a full day that heidstra was standing in the alley behind nicoles condo. several posters tried to help you understand but you stood firm in YOUR reality.

for all i know you still believe he was in the west alley.
martin II

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Ok. I disagree. I think he entered on Bundy.


I have no proof to support my claim that Goldman didn't enter through the front gate!

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


After he testified in the civil trial he was done. No one would touch him. He was proven to be a liar. Who wants to market a liar/murderer? There isn't a market there any longer. OJ did that to himself. Its wasn't some big conspiracy to get him black balled.

i am sure oj would still like to be in demand but he also realizes that that is in the past.

when i see him in web pictures with friends, at hip hop events or golfing events he seem to be having a ball even though he understands that a large number of mostly whites are still angry that the system they support found him not guilty.
martin II

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by nettathirty


Tazzy,

Mr August, believes Goldman arrived at Bundy or Dorothy were his borrowed car was found parked at or about 10:30p.. If this is true Goldman, Mandel and Aaronson should have meet up together on Dorothy and Bundy on the corner or near the car on Dorothy.. Mandel and Aaronson turned right from Bundy onto Dorothy at or about 10:30p. RGoldman should have been parking or walking pass them, if he came through the front gate!

I don't believe he went that way. Everything that he had with him was right there. It is proof that he didn't make it to the house.

Does that prove Mr August wrong? No. However, I disagree. Everything that I see makes me believe that he arrived in the front.

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by nettathirty



You mean he was done after the criminal trial or before the civil trial ever started?

I mean when he opened his mouth in the civil trial. No one believed him at all after that. He was done. And done in by his own words and behavior.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

palinka (sp) lived down bundy south of dorothy st. about halfway through that block.

martin II


martin II, do you intentionally keep spelling Pilnak's name on purpose?

Or maybe this is some kind of Freudian slip on your part that since she testified to facts that contradict your beliefs you just aren't capable of spelling her name right not matter how many times you are corrected. Funny.

It's really not that hard of a name to spell. Let me help you out here.

P i l n a k --- P i l n a k --- P i l n a k--- P i l n a k--- P i l n a k

Got it?

bobaugust

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


I mean when he opened his mouth in the civil trial. No one believed him at all after that. He was done. And done in by his own words and behavior.


You have to admit, you along with the majority of America believed OJ was guilty at the outset of the Criminal Trial! OJ denied hitting Nicole or abusing he, and since many of you believed the photo evidence, along with the denial of the sculler (sp) photos, then he's lying and must be guilty!

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


i am sure oj would still like to be in demand but he also realizes that that is in the past.

when i see him in web pictures with friends, at hip hop events or golfing events he seem to be having a ball even though he understands that a large number of mostly whites are still angry that the system they support found him not guilty.
martin II

But, I bet he wouldn't look so happy if he was in a room with people who didn't support him. He is happy when he is the center of attention. He already knew how to turn on the charm. I wonder how he acts behind closed doors?

Well, besides fighting with his daughter, fighting with his girlfriend and stealing cable I'm not sure.

:D

The large number of whites are upset that the system let a murderer go free. As any group should be.

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


I don't believe he went that way. Everything that he had with him was right there. It is proof that he didn't make it to the house.



Everything he had with him, was found were he lay dead, " is NOT proof".. Sorry, I know alot of G's hate when a NG questions their authority. He was found dead with the items he had in his possesion, but that does not give any indication he entered through the front gate!

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by nettathirty


Everything he had with him, was found were he lay dead, " is NOT proof".. Sorry, I know alot of G's hate when a NG questions their authority. He was found dead with the items he had in his possesion, but that does not give any indication he entered through the front gate!

Question my authority? Do I have authority? Woo Hoo! Go to your room you're grounded for questioning me!

Actually I believe it does give indication that he entered through the front gate. He was found at the bottom of the stairs and there was no indication that he was any where else but there. If you believe it is different then give me a plausible scenerio otherwise. Include anything that points to that direction.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by Beebee


The ones OJ tried to get a court order to get. Supposidly they show a later call from Nicoles mom?

I don't know much about it, but did see some things online that OJ went to court to get them. He must have had a reason.


Beebee, there are no missing telephone records. The last time Juditha Brown ever spoke with Nicole was in 9:40 PM telephone call she made to her telling her that the Mezzaluna Restaurant had found and was holding Juditha's eyeglasses.

Simpson's attorneys were given the telephone records to check out and and during the trial they made and agreed to several stipulations that the telephone records were accurate and depicted the times telephone calls were made. They agreed that the last time Juditha Brown ever spoke with Nicole was at 9:40 PM.

Simpson didn't do anything about bringing this false issue to court. Other people unrelated to this case who had very limited knowledge of the actual evidence tried to bring a suit against the Browns and the telephone company concerning a fictitious telephone call after 11:00 PM. It was thrown out of court as a frivolous law suit.

http://www.bobaugust.com/gullible.htm

bobaugust

[martin II]

Originally posted by bobaugust



Beebee, there are no missing telephone records. The last time Juditha Brown ever spoke with Nicole was in 9:40 PM telephone call she made to her telling her that the Mezzaluna Restaurant had found and was holding Juditha's eyeglasses.

Simpson's attorneys were given the telephone records to check out and and during the trial they made and agreed to several stipulations that the telephone records were accurate and depicted the times telephone calls were made. They agreed that the last time Juditha Brown ever spoke with Nicole was at 9:40 PM.

Simpson didn't do anything about bringing this false issue to court. Other people unrelated to this case who had very limited knowledge of the actual evidence tried to bring a suit against the Browns and the telephone company concerning a fictitious telephone call after 11:00 PM. It was thrown out of court as a frivolous law suit.

http://www.bobaugust.com/gullible.htm

bobaugust

bob

do you have a song on your web sight titled "old black oj"
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


But, I bet he wouldn't look so happy if he was in a room with people who didn't support him. He is happy when he is the center of attention. He already knew how to turn on the charm. I wonder how he acts behind closed doors?

Well, besides fighting with his daughter, fighting with his girlfriend and stealing cable I'm not sure.

:D

The large number of whites are upset that the system let a murderer go free. As any group should be.

then trash the jury system and use public opinion polls to determine verdicts.
marti II

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


then trash the jury system and use public opinion polls to determine verdicts.
marti II

I don't have the authority to do that. Oh wait! I do (per Netta). Okay, down with the system! Public opinion polls start.....now!

Why are you and Netta getting mad? Prove me wrong. Not just with words or what you feel. Show me.

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


But, I bet he wouldn't look so happy if he was in a room with people who didn't support him. He is happy when he is the center of attention. He already knew how to turn on the charm. I wonder how he acts behind closed doors?

Well, besides fighting with his daughter, fighting with his girlfriend and stealing cable I'm not sure.

:D

The large number of whites are upset that the system let a murderer go free. As any group should be.

tazzy.

if oj were to go to any country in Africa he would be welcomed
and have business opportunbities that would dwart the Hertz and NBC gigs he had in ca.

"so the large number of white people"---- only matters if one decides to contiuue to play on their white stage which they control. but this is by no means the only stage one can play on.

martin II

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by nettathirty



You have to admit, you along with the majority of America believed OJ was guilty at the outset of the Criminal Trial! OJ denied hitting Nicole or abusing he, and since many of you believed the photo evidence, along with the denial of the sculler (sp) photos, then he's lying and must be guilty!

When I first heard the news, I thought wow that is sad. I did not immediately think OJ did it. I did not think he did it until the chase. Once the trial started I had doubts. I didn't he did it. Me and my sister had many a debate over it. I had doubt. But, I think most of my doubt came from not believing that he could do it. No way could a star like that kill two people in that manner. When he didn't testify in the criminal trial I considered guilt again. But, after he testified in the civil trial I had no doubt left. He did that to me. No one else. His demeanor also really looked bad.

Okay, I'm turning in for the night. I will be back tomorrow.

:seeya:

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


I don't have the authority to do that. Oh wait! I do (per Netta). Okay, down with the system! Public opinion polls start.....now!

Why are you and Netta getting mad? Prove me wrong. Not just with words or what you feel. Show me.

tazzy
i have never been mad at you. we dissagree but i think it is friendly. at least for my part
martin II

[goatgirl]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Thank you goatgirl for the reference. I did find the picture in Lange/Vannatter book, although I could only make out one coffee cup on the far counter. I believe that had Mr. Berman been in the house having coffee with Nicole just before the murders, we would have heard something about it -- don't you?

Hi Fbg,

you are welcome :)

You can clearly see one coffee mug, & if you look in front of the vase it looks like it there another mug?

I would assume the samething as you, that we would have heard something, but we havent heard anything at all??

not even a reason why the child left...!

I am thinking ....did OJ call @ 9pm & make threats
& Nicole was scared & thats why the child didnt stay the night???

either way I guess we really will never know.....

GoatGirl
:seeya:

[goatgirl]

Originally posted by Beebee


Hi GG,

Yeah, I'm starting to think the Mezzaluna wasn't high end like that either..... recently someone remarked to me that (LE) should have checked who was at the restaurant that night to check out the possibility that Nicole was being watched or followed. The remark was also made that you couldn't see inside Mezzaluna from the outside-- I don't know if that's true or not.

Thanks for the welcome.

Hi BB

according to Sheila Wards book "raging heart" someone was making obscene/harassing phone calls to Nicole, she did notify the police & they paid this person a visit ....

who it was I have no idea?

Nicole also suspected someone was trying to scare her,
she thought it "could" have been either OJ or Jason, I believe she told this to Ron Shipp.....

Goatgirl
:seeya:

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


bob
no offense.

fbg posted that NO ONE on this thread had ever made those kind of comments about wagners site.

i gave her one of your comments to help her understand as you make these kind of comments about wagner all the time except when you need to quote him to support your guesses.
martin II


martin II, my comments that you posted had nothing to do with what fbg said to you.

I've always said that Wagner did a great job researching photos and facts in this case. Where he was not credible were his own interpretations of what those photos and facts were trying to make things fit his failed scenario.

bobaugust

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by Beebee


Ron was parked about 50 feet away.

So in your speculation, from inside the condo, Nicole hears the gate unlocking... she must have pretty good ears, and just assumes it was Ron? Doesn't look, just goes out? And then sees OJ and he attacks her and Ron walks up?

To me it makes more sense that somebody was watching and hiding, and as soon as Nicole saw Goldman's car, she went out.

jmo

How would Nicole know if she saw Goldman's car or not? He didn't have a car. He borrowed the car. How would she know what it looked like?

JMO and MOO!!

[jotun]

Bob-What name have I ever
called you on lago????? Yes,as you know,I sure don't think Fuhrman killed Nicole.Almost as ridiculous as it being O.J. Neither had a motive. Especially with the help of Shipp-Faye- and especially Denise.[Tho there is an interesting book, 'The Frame Of Century' that has Shipp as the killer.Both O.J.'s sisters and A.C.believe that is true.][O.J.and alot of others including me think it was "the world of Faye Resnick.'] And have told them so on a few occasions. I feel almost as unwelcome as you there.

'Not Guilty' doesn't
mean INNOCENT, only to those who won't accept it. In America we are all presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.So if we are not proven guilty in that court. We are INNOCENT. Simple.That includes O.J. Judge Ito always said O.J. was presumed innocent.Mistaken right? Or maybe joking huh? But LIABLE does not mean guilty no matter how much you want it.

jotun

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by Beebee
Martin- check your pm's again.

:)

IIRC, you are not supposed to waste bandwidth with this nonsense. If you disagree, then I'll take it up with one of the Moderators.

:rolleyes:

JMO and MOO!!

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8


How would Nicole know if she saw Goldman's car or not? He didn't have a car. He borrowed the car. How would she know what it looked like?

JMO and MOO!!


That might not have been the 1st time he borrowed that car.

He might have visited Bundy or he and Nicole were somewhere else and she saw him in the car!

[goatgirl]

Originally posted by bobaugust



bobaugust

*Snip for space**

I didn't find that song funny at all....:no:

GoatGirl

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by bobaugust

*Snipped*

Why? Because Simpson just kept on stabbing and cutting. Some of the wounds were fatal and some weren't. He had no idea what he was doing except continue stabbing and cutting until Goldman ceased to resist.

A professional killer would have only needed one stab to fatally kill a victim, not over thirty.

bobaugust


Mr August,

I know, your going to say there is NO proof of anyone other than OJ and the 2 victims at Bundy. Well, I'll say it for you!

There is NO proof RGoldman entered the front gate of Nicoles condo either, but many of us believe he did!

With that being said, it's quite possible at 10:15p there were multiple killers 1 unskilled and another skilled! The skilled killer attacked Nicole while the unskilled battled Ron Goldman, each killer with separate knifes would explain the different types of wounds on RGoldman!

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by martin II

<snipped>

if it is ever proven that a killer/s other than oj killed these people,
then we will all have to admit that all of ojs blood drops,cap,fibers and foot prints were in fact planted.

martin II

:lol: :rolleyes: :lol:

IMO, that's never going to happen. People in Hell will get a glass of ice water first!

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by bobaugust

*Snipped*

bobaugust


Mr August,

" The Real Bob August "

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by martin II

it does not require any special effort.
just look at a picture of dorothy and bundy and measure.
martin II

What does it matter for God's sake? 50 feet; 75 feet; 100 feet. Who the hell cares? Unless, of course, you are taking notes for your notebook!

JMO and MOO!!

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by nettathirty

Socal

I don't think they passed each other at all. I believe Goldman could have easily entered Nicoles condo from the alley, and was dead when the walkers passed by the condo!

Just how did Ron come through the back gate? Oh, yeah, he used his key. Silly me!

JMO and MOO!!

[alien]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel



In addition, her bed was unmade. As a woman, I can speak with a degree of certainty that most women don't leave a bed unmade when they are anticipating a romantic interlude.

Unless you are a lazy ol' cow like me who has serious issues with making her bed.

At least Mr Alien doesn't mind. ;)

[alien]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
He was obsessing over her clothing that night -- probably thought she was seeing someone -- maybe he was going to come to the front to make