Fawley's Jail Letters to Hildy, Forwarded to Maria Serraes, Given to Defense Atty

[Researcher]

[list=1]
Do we know why Fawley sent ~46 letters from jail to Hildy?
Why did Hildy send the letters to Maria Serraes?
Who is Maria Serraes?
What is Serraes's relationship to Hildy?
What is Serraes's relationship to Fawley (if any)?
Why did Serraes then send Fawley's letters to Fawley's defense attorney, William E. Johnson?
[/list=1]
Court Will Weigh Fawley's Letters (http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1137835153071)
Fawley's Letters from Jail Ruled Not Privileged (http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/middlepeninsula/dp-99834sy0apr06,0,3900228.story?coll=dp-news-local-mp)

[singlesix]

1. Why?

a) obsessive
b) compulisve
c) not getting enough love and attention
d) a plot
e) I honestly can't imagine
f) everyone else he wrote marked theirs return to sender

3. Who?

Google shows a person by that name on the office staff at a mortgage company.

I can't continue researching or even thinking about this, I'm sorry. I start laughing everytime I think about that many letters going through that many hands.

I wonder what his lawyers think. Do you figure they encouraged him to write that many?

singlesix

[Researcher]

Originally posted by singlesix
1. Why?
a) obsessive
b) compulisve
c) not getting enough love and attention
d) a plot
e) I honestly can't imagine
f) everyone else he wrote marked theirs return to sender

3. Who?
Google shows a person by that name on the office staff at a mortgage company.

I can't continue researching or even thinking about this, I'm sorry. I start laughing everytime I think about that many letters going through that many hands.

I wonder what his lawyers think. Do you figure they encouraged him to write that many?

singlesix
Hi, singlesix. Oh, dear, you're right! There is a Maria Serraes at a mortgage company in Richmond. I guess there's no way of knowing right now if that is the "3rd party" referred to in this case. If this is her, don'cha just bet she's pleased as punch to have her name associated with this case? I wonder what would make Hildy decide to send the letters to MS rather than turn them over to, e.g., her own attorney (I'm not caught up on the case, just assuming she has one) or to the police, etc.

I suppose I can see all the rationale's you gave about why he wrote all those letters...except for your "d. a plot".

Anyway, will be interesting to find out who this MS is.

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Hey guys -

I have some additional questions to float -- it was mentioned in one of the articles, I think, that Maria was also a friend of Skulz?

I am STILL obsessing about that car --

and so...

wondering

WHERE did Maria live? Did Ben frequently visit her home? Is there a place around her residence to hide a car?

Also Singlesix - very struck by your comments (had to laugh about (f)!

Why 46 - so many to same girl???

Wonder how the sequence went - one every X days like clockwork.. or a few here and a few there...

And I still want to know if there were ONLY 46-- does the jail keep a record of outgoing mail? ow exactly does that work? Anyone know??

Could he give them to a visitor who posted them? Are you allowed to pass a letter to someone? Are you allowed to get letters when someone is visiting. Are any letters received by a person awaiting trial considered discovery?

Exactly what was the chain of custody of these letters? A bundle that Hildy kept, found out through ??? police were looking for them, and so she passes them to Maria who also learns through ???? that police are looking for them and so she passes them to the Defense attorney... and which one... the one in Richmond - Collins or the Mathews County Defender? And what was the exact timeline for it all???


And finally - was she the only one he was writing? Or were/are there others who could have received letters that could have information about this case?

Just thinking....

[becurious]

Originally posted by Researcher
[list=1]
Do we know why Fawley sent ~46 letters from jail to Hildy?
Why did Hildy send the letters to Maria Serraes?
Who is Maria Serraes?
What is Serraes's relationship to Hildy?
What is Serraes's relationship to Fawley (if any)?
Why did Serraes then send Fawley's letters to Fawley's defense attorney, William E. Johnson?
[/list=1]
Court Will Weigh Fawley's Letters (http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1137835153071)
Fawley's Letters from Jail Ruled Not Privileged (http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/middlepeninsula/dp-99834sy0apr06,0,3900228.story?coll=dp-news-local-mp)

All IMO:
1. What else does he have to do there?
2. Maybe she wanted to be rid of them or Serraes asked for them (perhaps she's older) and thought to send them to the attorneys.
3, 4, & 5. Not sure on this one - we don't know anything about her at all - ie: age, life, employment, etc. Poor thing that her name has been thrown into the mix.
6. I know I've read somewhere (sorry - I don't have the link, but it's been in the news articles) that one of the letters repeats details he'd told the police and the rest were just letters about feelings, life, etc. and not necessarily relevant to the case, so I guess it doesn't matter who they should go to - but perhaps they thought the defense attorneys because of those reasons and maybe they didn't know who else to give them to. I don't know that I'd know what to do if I ever found myself in the same circumstances.

[Belsma]

ahhh, to have a look see at those letters. Could be a ruse. Is bf stupid enough to send letters with the truth? Has he ever really told the truth in writing or otherwise? He's a jackass. Plain and simple. Too bad he was not caught for being a simple jackass before he took advantage of Taylor and took her life. What an idiot.

[protectkidz]

A ruse!!!!!!!!!! Do you really think that the court is going to convene so that the pros. and def. can discuss something that is a ruse? LOL - who do you thing they are trying to fool? You??? Oh wait, this is another one of BF's intricate mind games...

LOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!

Well, in your mind if you think that the court, pros and def would go to the trouble of creating a "ruse" so that you, a bystander that will not be on the jury but merely are someone that reads CTV would maybe consider something that is, of course, a "ruse"... well, hmmmmmmm.

Okey dokey, artichokie....

[Researcher]

Originally posted by MATTHEWsevenone Hey guys -

I have some additional questions to float -- it was mentioned in one of the articles, I think, that Maria was also a friend of Skulz?

I am STILL obsessing about that car --
and so...wondering

WHERE did Maria live? Did Ben frequently visit her home? Is there a place around her residence to hide a car?

Also Singlesix - very struck by your comments (had to laugh about (f)!

Why 46 - so many to same girl???

Wonder how the sequence went - one every X days like clockwork.. or a few here and a few there...

And I still want to know if there were ONLY 46-- does the jail keep a record of outgoing mail? ow exactly does that work? Anyone know??

Could he give them to a visitor who posted them? Are you allowed to pass a letter to someone? Are you allowed to get letters when someone is visiting. Are any letters received by a person awaiting trial considered discovery?

Exactly what was the chain of custody of these letters? A bundle that Hildy kept, found out through ??? police were looking for them, and so she passes them to Maria who also learns through ???? that police are looking for them and so she passes them to the Defense attorney... and which one... the one in Richmond - Collins or the Mathews County Defender? And what was the exact timeline for it all???

And finally - was she the only one he was writing? Or were/are there others who could have received letters that could have information about this case?

Just thinking....
Morning, Matthew.
1.) Do you happen to have a link re MS being friends with Fawley?

2) And what car are you wondering about?

Articles indicated:
Letters are basically "friendship letters...love letters" re "semi-romantic relationship" between BF & Hildy. Their relationship was ~8/05-9/05.

Hildy received the letters in 11/05-12/05.

Hildy then sent letters to MS.

"At about the same time, Richmond investigators found out about the letters and began to seek them out."

"Anticipating that police would get a search warrant for his office and seize the letters, Johnson sent them under seal to the court to be examined by Shaw."

William Johnson, the Matthews Couty court-appointed defense atty "...has practiced law in Mathews for 15 years...serves on the county School Board, is a graduate of the T.C. Williams School of Law at the University of Richmond."

Noted Richmond Defense Atty Christopher J. Collins "has handled nearly 300 homicide cases during his 33-year career....(and) has represented (BF) since his (9/05) arrest on charges of possessing child pornography..."
http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1137833630512

[jace]

Researcher, in the link you provided it didn't say anything about the letter that Ben wrote to Katie. I had never heard they were love letters. Do you have a link that states that? Did I miss something?

[Researcher]

Originally posted by jace
Researcher, in the link you provided it didn't say anything about the letter that Ben wrote to Katie. I had never heard they were love letters. Do you have a link that states that? Did I miss something?
There are 2 links in the 1st post.

[Hey Paula]

I believe I read somewhere that there is a woman named Maria Serraes who is in real estate.

Inasmuch as BF's landlord died, can MS be the person who is now in control of the building BF once occupied a residence in?

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by Rowan
I'm just confused. It seemed rather straightforward to me. He wrote letters, most of which (according to "news" sources .. blah blah blah) are 99% personal rumination, 1% about the night Taylor died, and which basically support his previously released statements.

BFD. Nothing new here. UNLESS they can substantiate his claims that both he and Taylor were drinking that evening, which may lend SOME credence to his defense.

Otherwise, this is no big deal. More of Fawley's ramblings. Who cares who the people were that turned them over? They were in receipt of letters from him, nothing more. The evidence IS the letters, and those will be scrutinized by both sides now.

Personally? If they are what has been conveyed? Point to the defense.

ROWAN - are you saying that for Ben to put something to paper is substantiation/support? Why?

It is still just Ben. Only his perspective. There is no collaboration from a third party merely because he wrote to a third party? Right?

And as far as offering SOME credence to his defense - how??? I would think that the timeline of making some claims might work against him couldn't they?

He did confess right? And now he is saying it was an accident. We don't know exactly, verbatim what he confessed do we? What if the Defense planned to say , and haven't we all grown very used to this tactic by Defense Attorneys, WELL YOU SEE WHEN MY CLIENT CONFESSED, he was tired/sick/in shock/felt threated/confused - insert whatever you think might fly-- and THEN THE ATTORNEY ASKS FOR THE CONFESSION TO THROWN OUT! Which would really help the Defense. Now let's say, the Defendent wrote a bunch of letters many months after the Interrogation alone in his cell without any prodding from anyone and he recounts the same or much othat in fact HURT his DEFENSE?

I will go one step further too. IF his friends had evidence, specifically the letters, that they believed would help him why not march into the DA office and give it to the ones who are trying to convict him? Or give to both Prosecution and Defense? Wouldn't that make more sense? But instead, only the Defense got these letters (on the heels of the police looking for them) and the Defense immediately tried to get them marked as something protected by ATTORNEY/CLIENT priviledge - why do that if whatever within will help "add some credence" to his defense?

Nope , I am more inclined to see these letters will prove to be one more example of how BEN FAWLEY's inability to be QUIET will help to prove his guilt.

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by Researcher

Morning, Matthew.
1.) Do you happen to have a link re MS being friends with Fawley?

2) And what car are you wondering about?

Articles indicated:
Letters are basically "friendship letters...love letters" re "semi-romantic relationship" between BF & Hildy. Their relationship was ~8/05-9/05.

Hildy received the letters in 11/05-12/05.

Hildy then sent letters to MS.

"At about the same time, Richmond investigators found out about the letters and began to seek them out."

"Anticipating that police would get a search warrant for his office and seize the letters, Johnson sent them under seal to the court to be examined by Shaw."

William Johnson, the Matthews Couty court-appointed defense atty "...has practiced law in Mathews for 15 years...serves on the county School Board, is a graduate of the T.C. Williams School of Law at the University of Richmond."

Noted Richmond Defense Atty Christopher J. Collins "has handled nearly 300 homicide cases during his 33-year career....(and) has represented (BF) since his (9/05) arrest on charges of possessing child pornography..."
http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1137833630512

Researcher -

First - I now have my settings so I can READ all of the links! SOrry about my sloppy prior post.

As to your questions.

1. I tried to find that link where it was mentioned that Hildy lived with a Maria and had broken up with Ben some time ago because she prefered to have a girlfriend and not a boyfriend. I think it was on her MYSPACE stuff. Unfortunately, all of the old links are dead- or I can't get to them. It DID NOT HAVE A LAST NAME THOUGH but I thought a few posts on the same forum there mentioned a spat with Maria and Hildy spent the night watching movies and eating popcorn at Ben's. Gosh Research - I realize I must be more like I used to be LINKS LINKS LINKS. It is going to be harder now with so many gone. All I have written just sounds like gossip! Doesn't it. But I do recall reading it all from the sites. I had a folder for some of the links that CTV would not allow (the blogs etc) but that was destroyed when my computer got trashed researching that fettish crud. Hope someone can help out and recall the links.

I may be wrong though and it was a different Maria all-together. That is a common name! Hey, I had a thought, maybe SOMECHICK posted something about this. I will try to dig through the old posts. Not really a good link though, is it? Just more hearsay.

GOOD QUESTION RESEARCHER - Didn't Raceex know how to unlock old weblinks that appeared dead? Someone posted how to do it when all of Skulz stuff began to disappear. Does anyone recall?

2. Taylor's car! For me it is huge piece of the puzzle. Where was it? How often moved? WHo knew? All of that sort of stuff has really bugged me! It was missing for some time. The guy whose house where it was ultimately found said it was NOT there the whole time. Police asked at one time about help with GRNERTH tag.

Thanks Researcher - keep me thinking!!! I am so thrilled you are here!!!

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by Rowan


Of course it does V. He admits it AGAIN in the letters apparently. There may also be other information that speaks to how things happened that support his defense of accidental death.

Rowan --

HELP!

Are you suggesting he may have given more details in the letter than he offered in the interrogation/confession with authorities and the details will help support

ACCIDENTAL DEATH?

Let me ask you then:

Wouldn't the details be from his own account and may not be rooted in reality/truth?

With his track record of lying, why would anything laid to paper by Ben have any weight or credibility?

And factoring in his actions after the incident:

1. HE DUMPED HER BODY IN A DITCH AND TOLD NO ONE (or so we know so far)

2. HIS OWN ROOMMATE SAID WHEN HE RETURNED TO HIS APARTMENT IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS, HE WAS NORMAL BEN TALKING ON HIS PHONE ABOUT SOME UPS THING.

3. HE CALLED THE POLICE AND CREATED A WEIRD FALSE ABDUCTION ALIBI

4. HE PRETENDED TO BE AS CONFUSED AS THE NEXT GUY AND EVEN GAVE OUT FLIERS?

5. HE CONNED CINO INTO BELIEVING AND RELAYING ACROSS THE MEDIA THAT TAYLOR MAY HAVE RUN OFF AND EVEN WENT SO FAR AS TO PLANT A SEED THAT SHE HAD SUPPOSED COME TO BEN EARLY WANTING TO STEAL A CAR?????

6. HE DID SOMETHING WITH HER CAR

7. HE WAS SEEKING OUT PEOPLE WHO HAD CONTACT WITH TAYLOR JUST BEFORE THE INCIDENT, ??????

And factoring in a few other character traits of Ben Fawley:

1. a FELON
2. rap sheet includes complaints involving violence against women
3. The whole ERIN scenario demonstrated Ben preferred to irrationally deal with at least one female who refused him and made concerted efforts to badmouth, defame, and scare her. He even dumped Taylor's body on land very close to this girl!

Help me see how any detail written by BEN in a bundle of letters written to Hildy benefit him? And if that is so, why would the Defense try to prevent them from being included as discovery?

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by Rowan
I'm just confused. It seemed rather straightforward to me. He wrote letters, most of which (according to "news" sources .. blah blah blah) are 99% personal rumination, 1% about the night Taylor died, and which basically support his previously released statements.

BFD. Nothing new here. UNLESS they can substantiate his claims that both he and Taylor were drinking that evening, which may lend SOME credence to his defense.

Otherwise, this is no big deal. More of Fawley's ramblings. Who cares who the people were that turned them over? They were in receipt of letters from him, nothing more. The evidence IS the letters, and those will be scrutinized by both sides now.

Personally? If they are what has been conveyed? Point to the defense.

Hey Rowan -

When did Ben release a statement? I missed that one. Do you have a link? (hope it is still good?

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by Rowan


the only statement that, to my knowledge he has made, the one we've discussed often and no, I don't have a link. The one saying that he restricted her breathing during rough sex.

Oh , I thought there had been a statement he released.. with the way he likes to open his mouth and the time I was computer-less, I wondered if I missed something.

I have a question for you. I know you really like to sit on both sides of the table - which I get a genuine tickle out of at times (marvel at how you keep things straight at times)...

Anyway, of late you seem to be on the fence or on the Defense side of looking at things in regards to this
ACCIDENTAL DEATH claim by Ben.

Here is my question..

Do you think that the Defense is betting on most people WANTING to believe this an accident will help them make their case stronger?

I thought about your last few posts and it got me to thinking ---

How would the Defense be able to make their case credible? Or is it enough to just keep the ball in the air?

[protectkidz]

Honestly, V - I may have underestimated you.

Yes, I think some people would rather that this was a horrible, tragic accident, instead of murder.

Why, you ask?

Because then, there would be a greater possibility that Taylor may not have suffered as much - in a way that a murder victim seeing the rage of their murderer and feeling such terror knowing that they were being killed, suffers.

I, personally, would rather that Taylor's life hadn't ended in terror.

But, if he did murder her, I think the facts of the case as they will be laid out during the trial will show this. The facts will show that it was not an accident, if it truly wasn't.

[jace]

Researcher, thanks for pointing out to me that there were two previous links. I was only going by the link you posted with the remark that Katie and Ben had a semi-romantic relationship.

PK, I think you're right. I don't think any one of us that have gotten to know Taylor through her friends' statements and her mom's can imagine why anyone would murder someone like her. It's a little easier (and I feel bad using the word easier because it here isn't anything easy about it) to think that it was an accident.

[MATTHEWsevenone]

The more I think about those letters the more curious I am.

I hope they are introduced early on. I find myself asking a series of questions...

Hildy and her role in all of this has always been on my mind. These letters just served to heighten my interest in her.

When will the witness lists be published probably?

Does anyone know whom (or is it who?)the gag order applies? Is Hildy already listed as a potential witness?

Could that have any bearing on why the Defense was given the letters and not the Prosecution?

Just wondering outloud.

[MATTHEWsevenone]

So Row -

Since we have no evidence to support either way whether Taylor chose to meet Ben or was conned or forced into his presence (THE TRIAL HOPEFULLY MAY HELP), the scale for you is tipped in the direction that TAYLOR made a choice that set things in motion.

And that choice (that really only can be confirmed by a dead girl) was to willingly be in the company of Ben Fawley that night and that is what creates the possibility of ACCIDENTAL DEATH for you right

So the hingepin for you is did she make a choice to be in Ben's company that night?

If the Prosecution can prove NOPE - Taylor was not heading to Bens. Had not spoken with Ben and made plans for the evening with Ben and can show her head was on a completely different track that night.

Then will that be enough for you to punt the accidental death explanation that Ben is offering as his defense?

One more thing - what about the possibility that the two happened upon each other? That opens the door to the happenstance occuring for Taylor and Ben but Door #2 with that scenario also allows for the meeting to have been planned on Ben's part, right? In this event, the hingepin question of whether Taylor willingly chose to be in the company with Ben that night still is there for you right? What critera would you expect to be met to show each one's intent? What does the Prosecution and Defense have to do to convince you either way?

Just curious.

It is interesting to me how Ben dumped her body, remained mute for so long, hid her car, filed a weird ABDUCTION alibi with the police... none of his actions afterwards really have any weight for you in determining whether Taylor's death was accident or murder? SO it is not Ben's actions that are going to determine it, for you, it is Taylor's right?

[MATTHEWsevenone]

OK Row --


So for you it is a combination of factors:

Whether Taylor was actively involved with Ben (and so far for you - you are going with hearsay by online posters whom you choose to trust as reliable, honest, and objective) - this in turn leads to the logical question (with a presumed/slanted answered on your part) whether she choose to meet up and go with him that night

AND

the fact the body was found in Mathews and LE have not levied charge(s) (i.e. evidence found and collected to support a charge) to support a crime took place in Richmond

It is a triad - of sorts or maybe building blocks would better describe it for you so far, right? Not really a puzzle but steps.

And right now you would be at the top of the steps - you have accepted that Taylor & Ben were probably involved - Step One

You accept that Taylor went to Bens that night voluntarily- Step Two

LE has not built a case or is trying a case in Richmond; therefore, you believe that the two headed for Mathews together and because they were involved whatever happened in Matthews was more likely an accident? Step Three

Do I have it right now?

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by Rowan


I have already explained it clearly enough I believe V. And I find your characterization of my "sources" condescending and offensive. You do not know who they are, and as far as online posters being more reliable - well, there is much I could say to that, but won't.

Have a good day.

Rowan-

But... But... You TOLD ME in a PM just a couple of days ago who your FRIENDS were.

:shrug: :shrug:

[Researcher]

Interesting to go back and read the thread on Hildy and Fawley in trying to better understand their relationship...perhaps give us some hints re Maria....?
Hildy & Darkevilgoth (http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?postid=7088547#post7088547)

[singlesix]

Speaking of Fawley & Apologist, has Fawley apologised for anything yet or is he still acting like a kid who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar?

singlesix

[Cino]

Singlesix:

Maybe your PM box is full or my messages just aren't getting through somehow. If it's not that, please at least tell me if you're just going to ignore me.

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by protectkidz
Honestly, V - I may have underestimated you.

Yes, I think some people would rather that this was a horrible, tragic accident, instead of murder.

Why, you ask?

Because then, there would be a greater possibility that Taylor may not have suffered as much - in a way that a murder victim seeing the rage of their murderer and feeling such terror knowing that they were being killed, suffers.

I, personally, would rather that Taylor's life hadn't ended in terror.

But, if he did murder her, I think the facts of the case as they will be laid out during the trial will show this. The facts will show that it was not an accident, if it truly wasn't.


The only people, who'd rather believe this was an accident, are those who want BF to get off.

Why else would they believe his lies of EA and consensual sex, after he lied for so long, keeping this "accident" a secret while Taylor's body was rotting away, and her family was distraught?

I'd rather Taylor never met BF, so no harm would have come to her and she'd be alive and well. So much for what I'd rather. The fact is Taylor's life DID end in terror, at the hands of BF.

I seek justice for Taylor and her family, and for BF, who murdered her, to suffer the ultimate punishment allowed by VA law.

:rose: In loving memory of Taylor

[Cino]

I suppose the question is, Paula, why wouldn't you rather believe that Taylor didn't spend the last bits of her life in terror? If this was an accident, like in the story, it's entirely possible that she spent the last moments of her life in pleasure.

Isn't that a good enough reason to want to believe it was an accident? Does everyone who wants to believe this was murder just like the idea of Taylor dying in terror? I'd like to think not.

[jace]

Cino, I agree with you about wanting to believe it was an accident. I don't want to think that she lived her last minutes in terror. I know there's a possibility but until it's proven I just can't "go there".

As far as if it was an accident why wouldn't he not go to the authorities, why would he help in passing out flyers? Well, that's been discussed before. I think he panicked knowing that with his record no one would ever believe him.

I'm not a Ben apologist. He's guilty. I want him punished for what happened but I want him to be punished appropriately.

[vedder]

Originally posted by Cino
I suppose the question is, Paula, why wouldn't you rather believe that Taylor didn't spend the last bits of her life in terror? If this was an accident, like in the story, it's entirely possible that she spent the last moments of her life in pleasure.

Isn't that a good enough reason to want to believe it was an accident? Does everyone who wants to believe this was murder just like the idea of Taylor dying in terror? I'd like to think not.

Mike
The only reason BF "admitted" to anything was because they found her body. If we had not, he would still, to this day, be claiming he was "innocent" and that he was being "framed" which we all know now, would have been a lie...

When you first heard his ridiculous, ridiculous,"abduction alibi"
did you give him the benefit of the doubt, and believe that "story" as well?

Now, I'm all for being "open-minded" but I have yet to see one thing Ben did or said prior to his "confession" that would warrent a belief on his behalf. Not one thing.

Thats all it is, another "story", another lie....
Ben spent his whole life avoiding responsibility for his actions.

Why would it be any differen't in this situation? Common sense would dictate that it wouldn't...just moo..

Vedder

[TN_Profiler]

Originally posted by vedder


Mike
The only reason BF "admitted" to anything was because they found her body. If we had not, he would still, to this day, be claiming he was "innocent" and that he was being "framed" which we all know now, would have been a lie...
Vedder

I'm with Vedder on this one. Had her body not been found he would be trying to get out of jail in order to stand on some street corner in Richmond so he pass out flyers.

For all we know, he could have killed her in Richmond and then decided to go to Mathews in order to conceal her body. I don't think this possibility has been ruled out and I doubt we will ever truly know.

Every single thing he did prior to her discovery was a cover up. It wasn't until she was found by linking his photos to the farm did he even begin to speak of being more involved.

You can forget about anything he says or writes as being anything more than his version. He has proved time and time again that is he is not credible. This is why the evidence of the case is going to carry the most weight. Once the trial starts, we will all then see the results of the investigation that elude our eyes and ears today.

By the way ... for those of you who wondered about his jailhouse letters .... they are not subject to privacy priviledge. Also, anything he says on the jailhouse phone is recorded. The only exception is communication with his att'y.

The most recent example of this is the Carlie Brucia case when Joe Smith had all his conversations with his mother and brother recorded. All his letters were intercepted as well and decoded by the FBI. There is nothing like having a suspect's own voice played in a court so you can hear them openly confess.

I don't know about the rest of you but I am sure ready to see and hear the evidence as I am confident there will be plenty of facts I haven't seen/heard yet.

[jace]

TNProfiler, first I'd like to say that I respect and enjoy reading your posts. You're very knowledgable in matters like this. Maybe I'm confused by your last post. Are you saying that it was more likely that he killed Taylor intentionally because he tried to cover it up?
Personally, I think either way, accidental or intentional, his main objective would be to cover his *ss.
Unfortunately we'll never know unless the prosecution can come up with some credible evidence. Like you said the only that knows what went on the night was Ben and he's not credible.

[protectkidz]

I wish so much that he would pull a Joseph Smith. So many questions, so little answers. With BF's propensity for verbal diarrhea, I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.

[MATTHEWsevenone]

I forgot a BIG one when I did the list earlier about Ben's actions ---

Remember for days, weeks, he told Police he walked Taylor to her dorm around 9 something, remember? When in reality she had not even left her dorm yet? If accident - why was the timeline so off for him that night?

And he was busy telling friends that Taylor had asked about stealing cars...Why lie to his own friends if accident?

There are just so many things that don't add up to me to even open the door for ACCIDENT.

But Ben Fawley is not claiming she slipped on a rock while they were walking along the shore. NO WAY, he is now claiming as his defense that they drove together to Mathews -- three hours from Richmond!- to some beach area or to park near some beach

**REMARKABLY IN THE VERY COUNTY where another young woman's family property was/is - a young woman whom Ben was obsessed with and/or hated right up until the hours of Taylor's death according to his own weblogs.

And he claims Taylor and he were in the throws of some sort of sicko sexual stuff -

**REMARKABLY SIMILAR to exactly what this other young woman did/does either part time or full time as a porn model/actress.

And Taylor accidently died and her body dumped

** REMARKABLY CLOSE to the very property lines where this other young woman's family homestead/property is.


ACCIDENT -

1. WHY NOT SEEK MEDICAL HELP?
2. WHY NOT COME CLEAN TO FRIENDS? ESPECIALLY MUTUAL FRIENDS OF BOTH TAYLOR AND HIM WHOM HE SHOULD HAVE SEEN ANGUISHING OVER HER DISAPPEARANCE?
3. WHY DRIVE AROUND MATTHEWS FROM THE BEACH AREA TO THE VERY ROADS WHERE THE DESPISED/OBSESSED FEMALE LIVED?
4.WHY DESTROY OR HIDE HER CELL PHONE AND ID AND...

The questions keep going on and on...

[jace]

Matthewsevenone, I can see your point but what about:

1. Because he panicked. First thought was to cover his butt.

2. Maybe he did tell someone. We probably won't know that because there's a gag order.

3. Most killers dispose of the body in an area that they are familiar with. Ben knew the area because he had been there with Erin. Also, he thought it would be a place she wouldn't be found.

4. For the same reason as #1.

[Researcher]

Originally posted by MATTHEWsevenone
I forgot a BIG one when I did the list earlier about Ben's actions ---

Remember for days, weeks, he told Police he walked Taylor to her dorm around 9 something, remember? When in reality she had not even left her dorm yet? If accident - why was the timeline so off for him that night?

And he was busy telling friends that Taylor had asked about stealing cars...Why lie to his own friends if accident?

There are just so many things that don't add up to me to even open the door for ACCIDENT.

But Ben Fawley is not claiming she slipped on a rock while they were walking along the shore. NO WAY, he is now claiming as his defense that they drove together to Mathews -- three hours from Richmond!- to some beach area or to park near some beach

**REMARKABLY IN THE VERY COUNTY where another young woman's family property was/is - a young woman whom Ben was obsessed with and/or hated right up until the hours of Taylor's death according to his own weblogs.

And he claims Taylor and he were in the throws of some sort of sicko sexual stuff -

**REMARKABLY SIMILAR to exactly what this other young woman did/does either part time or full time as a porn model/actress.

And Taylor accidently died and her body dumped

** REMARKABLY CLOSE to the very property lines where this other young woman's family homestead/property is.


ACCIDENT -

1. WHY NOT SEEK MEDICAL HELP?
2. WHY NOT COME CLEAN TO FRIENDS? ESPECIALLY MUTUAL FRIENDS OF BOTH TAYLOR AND HIM WHOM HE SHOULD HAVE SEEN ANGUISHING OVER HER DISAPPEARANCE?
3. WHY DRIVE AROUND MATTHEWS FROM THE BEACH AREA TO THE VERY ROADS WHERE THE DESPISED/OBSESSED FEMALE LIVED?
4.WHY DESTROY OR HIDE HER CELL PHONE AND ID AND...

The questions keep going on and on...
And why express on your blog that one of your interests just happens to be "shallow graves"...and then it just so happens you bury a person in a shallow grave?

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by jace
Matthewsevenone, I can see your point but what about:

1. Because he panicked. First thought was to cover his butt.

2. Maybe he did tell someone. We probably won't know that because there's a gag order.

3. Most killers dispose of the body in an area that they are familiar with. Ben knew the area because he had been there with Erin. Also, he thought it would be a place she wouldn't be found.

4. For the same reason as #1.

1. a. Panic - I don't know. I have traveled those roads- day and night. Have you looked at the maps to see how the roads are laid out in Mathews, or are you familar with them? It was dark that night. there is a dead girl somewhere in the car with you. You have just killed her by accident. You panic - you're parked at a beach. What do you do? Do you involuntarilary find yourself driving down dark remote rural roads that are the very roads where your ex. lives? I cannot see a person in a panic taking all of the steps he took that night.

b. Cover his butt - OK- I can buy that to a point. But he chose to put Taylor on land so close to ERIN's family land. Heck, with the cover of dark, he might have thought he succeeded, right? If the goal was to "cover his butt" wouldn't it have been better to take her somewhere NOT so remote and tied to another girlfriend's? Wouldn't it have made sense to head to New Kent or Saluda or Rappahanock or even Ashland - afterall, it was the middle of the night, another college town and plenty of farmland to dump a body out there too. Remember I am thinking accident-- OK-- then why??? Therfore, if accident, why thoughts of GEE I BETTER COVER MY BUTT at all?

2. Maybe he did tell someone. OK. WHO? Let's think about this. Noone came forward, right? Begs the question, why did it take LE hunting down photo links to find her? Begs the question: If he told someone and they did not tell anyone-- why? Did they not believe him? Or did the person not believe it was an accident? Maybe the person was afraid to report it because he or she had his/her own trouble with the law and was afraid to be drawn into it all? OK maybe that one. But don't you think that Ben would have mentioned that person's name during his confession? It was an accident .. I told so and so, he'll tell you I told him! Time will tell on that one I grant you. But if he told someone why hadn't they already told LE? If there is a person whom Ben told who has not stepped forward, can they appear on the witness stand now and be credible? Isn't that person an accessory after the fact, if they knew before she was found? Or possibly one who obstructed an investigation? Remember the Style Mag piece that Cesca wrote. She said

a. she never saw or met Taylor -- and she was living with Ben from 7/31 until after Taylor's death.

b. she spoke of how normal he acted afterwards. There were a few comments/rantings he made after she disappeared that nw disturb Cesca. But she said she doubted Ben's veracity now that she knows what the rest of us know about Taylor and her death.

3. I think 1.b covers this. And Ben had been there during the DAY with Erin . right? Not at night, right? And we are not sure even how many times are we? So, if he had only been there a couple of times to shot some photos during the day close to a year or more prior, do you really think that in a panicky state he would just think - hey, I know the road where Erin's family lives is remote - I'll dump Taylor out in this ditch on or near her property line, Taylor will never be found here! I can't see it. Or conversely if he and ERIN were there before, wouldn't he have worried that ERIN might bring someone else there too? There are too many coincidences. Too much room for other choices if accident occurred.

IMO.

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by Researcher

And why express on your blog that one of your interests just happens to be "shallow graves"...and then it just so happens you bury a person in a shallow grave?

That's right! Thank you Researcher!

[Taxgirl2006]

He also listed "Death and Destruction" and "Murder" in his interests.

[poplife]

And he claims Taylor and he were in the throws of some sort of sicko sexual stuff -
**REMARKABLY SIMILAR to exactly what this other young woman did/does either part time or full time as a porn model/actress.a

Did I miss the part about Erin "...doing sicko sexual stuff part or full time..." ??

[janethompson]

Originally posted by Cino
I suppose the question is, Paula, why wouldn't you rather believe that Taylor didn't spend the last bits of her life in terror? If this was an accident, like in the story, it's entirely possible that she spent the last moments of her life in pleasure.

Isn't that a good enough reason to want to believe it was an accident? Does everyone who wants to believe this was murder just like the idea of Taylor dying in terror? I'd like to think not.

Sorry, but that's about the tackiest thing I've read on this board. It also seems fairly consistent with the bias you have consistently expressed throughout this process.

[poplife]

No, Peterson, what is tacky is that you would take the time to quote and enlarge the font on what you so deem tacky. Transparent.

[Cino]

Originally posted by Hey Paula
The only people, who'd rather believe this was an accident, are those who want BF to get off.

[color=green]My post was in response to that, Vedder. I was saying nothing about Ben's credibility (not that he's got any of that lying around). My point was that you don't have to want Ben to get away with anything to want for Taylor to have not had one of the more unpleasant deaths. I know I don't want for Taylor to have had a horrid death--e.g. I'd rather it had been an accident than murder--but I also don't want Ben to get away with anything that he did to Taylor. I mean, I sure as /the firey underworld that awaits after death/ don't want to have to worry about Ben being out period after what I know he has done, but I wouldn't feel right keeping him there if I could know that he's in for something he didn't do. Does that make sense, is that clear enough? I don't want to have to deal with him, but it wouldn't be right for him to be in there for something he didn't do.

Additionally, Vedder, I have yet to see anything that Ben has said or done that leads me to believe with any certainty any set of circumstances at all except for the abduction bit, let alone his current tale.

M 7:1--It's really not as bizarre as you think to go on a few hour drive somewhere pretty when you're bored. Consider also that, if this tale is true, it's entirely possible that they were specifically in the area around Erin's house because this was an emotional source for him. Moreover, if he panicked and found himself on these roads . . . wouldn't you be more likely to take roads that you knew than roads that you didn't? Ben knew the roads near Erin's house.

If Ben were trying to hide what he did, he wouldn't have told what few friends he had.

Cesca never met Taylor, sure, but there was only really a week and a half period in which they could have met. Taylor was sick for part of this time, and also had other things to worry about, what with moving to a new place and dealing with new classes.

Even in the kind of panic that Ben theoretically could have been in, he would have been trying to find a way out for himself. A panic doesn't necessarily mean a complete breakdown of mental facilities.

Ben was good at roads and whatnot, I doubt he would have had much trouble finding his way around, even in the dark. If they were at the beach, it was a very short distance to Erin's house.

*****

Just a little reasoning of possibilities from the inside for y'all. Especially you, M 7:1, as you clearly don't have much understanding of things you don't agree with. Just because you personally wouldn't do such and such a thing doesn't mean that there's no reason someone else would. Taking a drive when you're bored, for example.

[Cino]

Originally posted by janethompson


Sorry, but that's about the tackiest thing I've read on this board. It also seems fairly consistent with the bias you have consistently expressed throughout this process.

I don't see what's tacky about wishing a friend of mine had the more pleasant of possible deaths, or what is biased, either. There doesn't seem to me to be anything biased about hoping that Taylor's life didn't end in terror.

If you're suggesting that my bias is toward believing Ben's story, you really aren't very good at interpreting my words, even when they are completely straightforward. Stating that NONE OF US KNOW FOR SURE WHAT HAPPENED and WE THEREFORE SHOULDN'T ASSUME THINGS WE DON'T KNOW, as I've done multiple times in various different words, is not the same thing as stating that youse guysz should stopp beeing meanies to my bestest friend becauz he sed he dint do it so nyah nyah poopoo heads lolz. I never once said we should believe Ben's story.

[jace]

Originally posted by Cino

nyah nyah poopoo heads lolz.

I haven't heard that in ages. Thanks for bringing a little humor to the board.

[vedder]

Originally posted by protectkidz
I wish so much that he would pull a Joseph Smith. So many questions, so little answers. With BF's propensity for verbal diarrhea, I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.

Here you go PK...


While Ben Fawley awaits trial on charges of killing Taylor Behl, lawyers learn he’s written nearly 50 letters to a female friend expressing his thoughts while in jail. His lawyers are a little worried about how he signed them: “Killerly yours, Ben.”

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by Cino
I suppose the question is, Paula, why wouldn't you rather believe that Taylor didn't spend the last bits of her life in terror? If this was an accident, like in the story, it's entirely possible that she spent the last moments of her life in pleasure.

Isn't that a good enough reason to want to believe it was an accident? Does everyone who wants to believe this was murder just like the idea of Taylor dying in terror? I'd like to think not.

Because you introduced them, I can see why you'd rather believe what you'd rather believe.

I agree with janethompson, given the circumstances, it is a vile statement to even suggest, much less post, that Taylor could have spent the last moments of her life in pleasure, at the hands of her murderer.

BF is violent, and has demonstrated this behavior with other women.

[Cino]

Okay then Paula, we'll just have to agree to disagree. You just keep on hoping that Taylor had the worst death possible and I'll just have to keep on not being vicious. I don't understand why you so much like the idea of Taylor dying in terror--I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemies, let alone someone I cared about--but I suppose that's part of what makes us different.

This is one case in which I point out why it's such a good idea for people to be different than each other.

[MATTHEWsevenone]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/26/earlyshow/main884484.shtml?CMP=ILC-SearchStories

"They met through his former roommate, who says Fawley took pictures of Behl and posted them on his Web site.

Behl's friend, Mike Cino, says, "They'd been talking for a while online … and it's possible she considered him a confidante of sorts."

Cino says Fawley was drawn to younger friends."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/03/ng.01.html

"MIKE CINO, FRIEND OF BENJAMIN FAWLEY`S: He said that she had wanted to do something illegal before she turned 18 so that it would be wiped away afterward. And he said that she had been talking about -- you know, she had been asking about how to steal cars. He said that he wasn`t going to give her -- wasn`t going to help her out.

Certainly, I guess if she were involved in something like stealing cars, then all bets are off. I suppose she probably would want to get away to avoid being in trouble for this. But as for just running away, I wouldn`t see any particular reason for her wanting to run away. She seemed capable of handling her own problems. She was a very strong and capable person."


There were at least three other media interviews by CINO (one was an Early Show one where he was walking around Ben's apartment- unfortunately now they are dead links.) All done during the hours and days noone knew where Taylor was and what had happened to her. Not once, during any of these was there even a hint of any sort of relationship that would suggest Taylor was romantically linked to Ben Fawley in any way when she began classes, IMO.

One of the more recent post by poster here using same name - no idea if same person -

He/she claims Taylor was sick when she first got to VCU and was busy getting settled in and oriented with classes and THAT was why Ben's roomie had not SEEN or MET her. HUMMMMMM. Doesn't it also seem to go hand in hand that Taylor and Ben were not continuing a relationship as some seem to want to believe, whether through "sources" or extrapolating out Feb/April to after school starting? I could offer interviews from her best girlfriends, the skateboarders, the bartender at the Cafe -- all who had daily or very specific contact with Taylor after she moved to Richmond and all related to the media that they had no reason to suspect Taylor and Ben were in a relationship. A few of the closest girlfriends recalled the Feb/April events BUT they all agreed it was WAY OVER for Taylor by the time she started school.

So did romance continue after she moved to Richmond or did she "considered Ben a confidente", was busy with classes.etc. and merely talked on line to him?

CINO posted this also directed to me -

"It's really not as bizarre as you think to go on a few hour drive somewhere pretty when you're bored."

1. Never used word bizarre- entirely Cino's own design - no idea of motive.

2. IMO, Taylor was a CITY GIRL -not a country girl - she lived in urban settings all her life, chose an urban school and enjoyed music and activities that were found in urban settings - her No. VA hangouts, the Cafe, even skateboarding requires blacktop...Is it reasonable to make the leap with what we know about Taylor that she would even WANT to drive out into the country after 10 PM after just getting back a few hours earlier from No. VA and with her classes being what they were the next day? Her comment to her roommate was "I'll be back in a few hours" mot "Think I'll go for a drive" or "Nice night for a drive"...

3. It was a MOONLESS night.

http://www.fishsniffer.com/moonphase/september05.html

So does it seem reasonable to assert that Taylor and Ben headed off for a "pretty drive" because of boredom into the pitch dark rural setting of Mathews County?

For me, I could see Taylor taking a trip to W & M, or even Urbana if a beach was the draw (both would have taken less time too). Have traveled those roads day and night. Going for a "pretty drive" down 64 and over toward Gwynn Island/Mathews County at that hour? If Ben was good with roads just opens the door to other places IMO. And begs the question - pretty drive where my hated ex lives? I don't see either one having a mindset for this. Plus, it would have been low tide, right? Low tide on an Eastern Shore beach on a moonless night?


Here is the track --- out of boredom, pretty drive, huh?
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&saddr=Richmond,+Va&daddr=Mathews,+VA&ll=37.498831,-76.898804&spn=0.878138,1.408997

Don't see it. Not yet at least.

And one last thing - Not sure if there is an implication that they got in the car just to take a drive and only then Ben and Taylor decided ...

If that is the thought process, then how did the black garbage bags that were used to conceal/cook Taylor find their way into Taylor's car that night? If just a Let's go for a drive out in the country or to the beach?

ALL IMO

[joeb]

Cino: I havent posted anything here for a long time. But I have a question for you. Lets say BF gets 20 years and comes out of prison in 2026. Would you want to see him then? Would you write to him while he is in prison? Would you trust him ever again after he is out of prison? Would you be scared of him and what he might do to you or others you now know?
I once knew someone convicted of murder in Fla. in 1973. He spent 30 years in the Fla. penal system and got out a couple of years ago. He emailed me. I emailed him back a few times but decided not to continue or let him know where I lived. I am not sure I believe in rehabilitation. I wish him well with the rest of his life I just dont want any connection with it.
How would you feel about BF if and when he gets out. He may get less time than you would think. I am assuming he will go to jail for some period of time since he has confessed to her death.

[MATTHEWsevenone]

I have not built a mold and am determined to fit the pieces accordingly, as one poster has suggested. Why there is a concerted effort on the part of a few posters to imbed defaming or belittling comments directed to posters confounds me? Isn't anyone free to post what they want. They just have to be ready to back it up, right?

We will learn more - much more at the Trial...

I am open to discuss any facet of this case - and like many can't wait to hear the evidence be spilled out in the courtroom. Of course, we know all may never be known.

Personally, I don't think it wise to first determine to WANT TO BELIEVE TAYLOR DID NOT SUFFER and then tailor and develop the most kind explanation possible for all involved. Isn't the focus not Taylor at all with that sort of thinking? And isn't it really upon examination not sympathetic to Taylor? Doesn't it allow too much information or contradict what we so far have? Isn't it foundationally sympathetic to Ben?

I think it is possible for some on the periphery to be too close to see clearly. Time after time this has been reflected in various cases. People who think they know all or enough find during the trial phase that they were wrong and they were too close, too trusting, too distracted with daily life,...

Moms who introduced men whom they just really did not know well enough to their children only to be faced with the horror of their little ones/teenagers disappearance and death at the hands of these men they trusted. Instances of roommates who did not know their roommates (one such case where they lived together for over six years) and what about BTK killer's family? In Taylor's case, we are talking about a man in his midthirtys who only lived in Richmond five or six years at best and only within the last few years even met any of these people. And those on the periphery- younger, busy with college life ,several working in addition to attending school- how well could they KNOW BEN FAWLEY? Or even be expected to know him? IMO- they are not BEN FAWLEY EXPERTS or even TAYLOR BEHL EXPERTS because Taylor only moved to the US a few years prior to this and the one closest to her and Ben Fawley was off to college while Taylor finished high school. They were in different towns, they were not seeing each other day to day. They were of the opposite sex. And there was an age difference. Sure there was a friendship. Taylor's webpages support a friendship but even the weblogs CINO posted that some found so tacky were two years OLD! How really close were the two? Is their friendship even relevant to the circumstances of that night?

Months ago there were some threads about CINO and just who he was. It was at the time we were looking at POIs and wrestling with her movements. Some asked if she was bored that night, did she call CINO, her pal or try to head to his place? Makes sense. Seems logical. She parked her car near his apartment, or so her Dad recounted during one interview. OF course we don't know exactly where she parked it that night do we? We were trying to narrow her movements that night. Many of us had a curosity about CINO. Some still do maybe. Taylor had a connection to CINO.

Aren't those who testified at the Grand Juries the ones who are under the GAG order? If that is so - correct me if I am wrong- that would mean that CINO was not called and therefore deemed not to be on the inside of this case, right? And so far, it would appear he is not or not yet on any witness list, right? Of course, who is? But when one is on the lists, wouldn't they also be under the gag order?

So she was busy settling in and getting her classes straight and living with a girl whom she knew even less, right? A roomie with a boyfriend who was at a different school too. Taylor had only lived there for a few weeks. IMO TIME in this case, does not suggest or rise to the level of anyone in Richmond really knowing Taylor does it? There was no sibling or really old time friend who knew her for many many years right there at VCU? These were all busy college aged kids whose world collided.

I sat down early on and thought about all of the people from high school/college years. What made them a friend. I realized that I knew very little about many - yet I called them friend back then. And of course we did not have PDAs and cell phones, and online chat rooms and .... so there are some new ways to make friends or **think you are making friends today"" that were not in play when I was growing up. It seemed that most of her closest friends were attending other schools or still in Northern Virginia - not at VCU, right? With that in mind, I have not shut the door that she could have headed to Ben's that night - he lived just a few blocks from her dorm! But in my mind, that only opens the door to something akin to daterape/murder occuring instead of a "pretty drive" out of boredom and what Ben is suggesting. Because of what we know so far. Especially of interest to me is how he lied and behaved afterwards- to any and all alike.

Honestly, I don't know how any of those on the periphery find their footing? If you have ever been around one who lies all the time, it is hard even on the sidelines to know where the truth is anchored. Your own head swims at times. We know Ben was lying to the police, he was lying to Cino, and he was lying to his roommate. He spoke to Kevin and told him he was involved with Taylor - which sure surprised Kevin!

** OF course there could be loads more posts from computers, phone records, and third party eyewitness accounts that the police have that will clearly define just who knew Taylor how well and just who Taylor was communicating with during those first weeks at VCU.

Things like whom she was seen eating with - a huge big deal when you are at school. Anyone who has attended college know that eating times are a time to hook up with friends- if at all possible.

If she had a memo board on her door, who stopped by and left her notes?

Right now we have a case built by investigators that the Grand Jury and the DA feel confident will prove MURDER - not accident. ANd on the other side of the table we have Ben now saying "It was an accident!"

There is a reason for stepping back and really processing all of it. Not trying to reason it away because of a heartfelt desire to hope Taylor died without much pain-my choice of words.

This forum is not a dodgeball game where one side want to throw out soft tosses of Taylor dying a "pleasurable" death and the other side are monsters who WANT to throw horribly out brutal death balls.

Aren't posts constructed like that rooted with pushing and protecting a particular opinion and trying to belittle those posters who do not share that particular opinion? Instead of really carefully examining the facts as we know it or examining this phase of the case or even talking about the heading of this thread - the letters?

ALL IMO.

CINO poster, just to let you know - I found the IGNORE button and you are now on it for me. You mentioned you wanted Singlesix to at least tell you if that was the case... so I figured I would show you that curtesy.

I recognize the same sort of posts from before and I think I will sit this one out and only discuss the case. Had to reply to your post though since you singled me out and opined that I was unable to see...

For the record -- I see just fine.

ALL IMO.

[TN_Profiler]

Originally posted by jace
TNProfiler, first I'd like to say that I respect and enjoy reading your posts. You're very knowledgable in matters like this. Maybe I'm confused by your last post. Are you saying that it was more likely that he killed Taylor intentionally because he tried to cover it up?


jace - sorry if my post was not clear. I do have a personal belief that Ben's actions after the fact point to the matter at hand.

Because he put every effort into covering it up, I find that to be telltale of his involvement. It just doesn't point to an accident. I feel that if an accident occurred then a person would have tried to render help.

Try to play this out using yourself as an example. If you engaged in this type of sexaul behavior with a person you cared about, AND it went terribly wrong ........ what would you do?

When I put myself in his shoes .... I would have tried to summon help. In the same manner I would if I was swimming with a friend and they accidently drown. A call to 9-1-1 would be in order. Complicit help with the investigation would be the actions of a person who can explain how an accident happened.

Half burying a body in a remote area, handing out flyers searching for that person, concocting an alibi, pointing fingers at an ex, hiding the car, etc... are all actions that point to a cover-up.

I ask myself this question ,,,,,,, who covers up a death? Is anything that Ben Fawley doing in the days and weeks after Taylor's death an indication of a friend who experienced a tragic accident? Point to anything, one thing that makes you think this is nothing more than a man with many anger issues that killed a girl and tried to hide it.

Just one example please. Anyone?

With the information I have so far, Ben Fawley was present when she died. He did nothing to resolve the situation until the moment her body was found. If you think his concocted confession about an abduction has some 'half truth' in it, then please remember his entire story was wrapped around a violent confrontation. A bag over his head while being punched and kicked on a desolate dirt road, etc.... If he used some of the facts of the night Taylor died, then ask yourself which part is truth and which isn't? The overall theme of his alibi is consistent with a violent encounter which leads me to think his actions and words do not support 'an accidental death'.

All that said, I will allow the trial to commence with an open mind that evidence will tell the story better than I.

[jace]

Originally posted by MATTHEWsevenone


1. a. Panic - I don't know. I have traveled those roads- day and night. MO.

I deleted part of the quote because there is a word limit.

1. I think in one of Ben's blogs he mentioned being at Erin's waking up before everyone else and going outside to take pics before the sunrise. So I'm assuming he had been there at night. He must have felt comfortable or at least familiar with the area to do this.

2. Covering his butt. Some of us have said that he appeared to be "socially retarded". I'm not sure if you have children but most when they've done something wrong or made a mistake the first thing they think about is hiding it.
As far as him telling anyone and them not reporting it. There are too many reasons why to list. Happens all the time.

3. His roommate said that he acted "normal". I never said Ben was a good guy.

4. Taking the body to Rappahanock or Saluda? Maybe he wasn't familiar with those areas. Which would be better, to drive around an area that you don't know with a body in the car or to go straight for an isolated area that you are familiar with?

[jace]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MATTHEWsevenone
[B]I have not built a mold and am determined to fit the pieces accordingly, as one poster has suggested. Why there is a concerted effort on the part of a few posters to imbed defaming or belittling comments directed to posters confounds me? Isn't anyone free to post what they want. They just have to be ready to back it up, right?

Sorry, I quit reading after the first couple of paragraphs.

I've been reading this msg. board from the beginning. I have been open minded and go back and forth as to whether it was an accident or intentional.

So far, you've been the only one on here that I would deem as thinking they are all-knowing and an expert.

[jace]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TN_Profiler
[B]

jace-sorry if my post was not clear. I do have a personal belief that Ben's actions after the fact point to the matter at hand.

I know what you or I would do in a situation like that TN but we're not dealing with a person like us.

I apologize to Janet for saying this but maybe Taylor really didn't mean anything to Ben. Maybe that's why he didn't feel guility about what had happened or what he had done.

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by jace


I deleted part of the quote because there is a word limit.

1. I think in one of Ben's blogs he mentioned being at Erin's waking up before everyone else and going outside to take pics before the sunrise. So I'm assuming he had been there at night. He must have felt comfortable or at least familiar with the area to do this.

2. Covering his butt. Some of us have said that he appeared to be "socially retarded". I'm not sure if you have children but most when they've done something wrong or made a mistake the first thing they think about is hiding it.
As far as him telling anyone and them not reporting it. There are too many reasons why to list. Happens all the time.

3. His roommate said that he acted "normal". I never said Ben was a good guy.

4. Taking the body to Rappahanock or Saluda? Maybe he wasn't familiar with those areas. Which would be better, to drive around an area that you don't know with a body in the car or to go straight for an isolated area that you are familiar with?

1. OK Maybe yes. But remember there is a huge difference between traveling and just being at a location overnight - especially in the country. Things looks different at night and there are not landmarks that one would find elsewhere. But. OK. I can see this.

2. Can definitely see this post too. But here's the rub for me. Little ones when they make a mistake, do they spend weeks concocting the false alibi, telling friends and authorities lie after lie, hiding the car at various places etc. I can leave the door open here but my leanings are this is not the act of a "social retarded: person but someone who knew exactly what he was doing and why.

THIS IS JUST A GUESS ON MY PART BUT what if he needed time. Float all of these different things to keep investigators guessing all the while believing Taylor would not be found. WHY? Time? I hope Police have checked the bank records to verify whether Cesca's rent checks were going into Mr. Forrest's account as they should have? I have wondered for some time about what Ben's next move would/could have been had Taylor not been found.

As to others with their own reasons for not telling- OK, you are so right. We see that over and over don't we? I was wrong. There could be someone out there whom Ben told and who just has not come forward.

3. Did I say you or anyone has said Ben was a good guy - if I have I apologize to one and all. I think we all are in agreement he is NOT A GOOD GUY. What I meant was the he acted normal - when little one try to hide things they usually act a bit off don't they. And it would not be normal would it for a person who proports he accidentally killed a friend to be so unruffled or unstressed -- just acted NORMAL - as it, like he always acted... Doesn't that rub you the wrong way even a bit? I can see him putting on an act. I can see Cessca just not knowing him very well and detecting some things? But still to me it is the way I would expect a man who just killed and hid a body and a car to be acting as he comes in the door if it was all an accident. Just my opinion though.

4. I can see your point on this very clearly. Take the body someplace you know. I agree wholeheartedly. He took her some place he knew. The only thing does where he dumped the body suggest accident, suggest murder, or does it suggest either one?

Jace- I think this particular one will be very important for each side to build around in order to make their case.

Do you agree?

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by MATTHEWsevenone


"But still to me it is the way I would expect a man who just killed and hid a body and a car to be acting as he comes in the door if it was all an accident."

Sorry - forgot a critical word. Should have read

But still to me it is NOT the way I would expect a man who just killed and hid a body and a car to be acting as he comes in the door if it was all an accident.

:seeya:

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by jace
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TN_Profiler
[B]

jace-sorry if my post was not clear. I do have a personal belief that Ben's actions after the fact point to the matter at hand.

I know what you or I would do in a situation like that TN but we're not dealing with a person like us.

I apologize to Janet for saying this but maybe Taylor really didn't mean anything to Ben. Maybe that's why he didn't feel guility about what had happened or what he had done.

GOSH - JACE -

What a incredible post. Really opens the door to all sorts of discussions doesn't it?

So you are coming at this from a stand point that Ben may be thirty something but his way of life all points to him being socially retarded. And maybe that night he just saw Taylor was just an object or a means to an end. Something went wrong, and because he was not vested in any sort of way to Taylor, he just ejected her out of her car and drove off. ANd his only focus from that point on was COVER MY BUTT - COVER MY BUTT.

I don't know Jace, your theory is pretty bullet proof so far isn't it?

The hinge pin would be if Taylor went willingly, right?

Is that what the Prosecution has to prove to you to make their case?

Fascinating post IMO. Shows him to be heartless, self-obsessed - and it still being an accident..

I guess from the Defense's side, they would have to convince the jury that Ben was into casual rough sex with other girls and this time there happened to be an accident, right?

[jace]

I don't think it matters one way or another whether Taylor went willingly or not. If she did willingly go on a drive with Ben it doesn't mean that she willingly participated in any risky activity.

I personally think that Taylor died in Richmond. I think that Matthews (Erin's family's property) was the first place he thought of to dispose of her body. I only say it COULD have been an accident. I don't know and neither do you unless you know something you're not sharing with the rest of us.

No, you're right, it isn't a bullet proof theory. But neither is yours. If I were able to determine exactly what happened by the bits and pieces of information we've gotten from different news sources and this board then I would be working for LE and not posting on some crime msg. board.

[TN_Profiler]

Originally posted by jace
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TN_Profiler
[B]

I know what you or I would do in a situation like that TN but we're not dealing with a person like us.

I apologize to Janet for saying this but maybe Taylor really didn't mean anything to Ben. Maybe that's why he didn't feel guility about what had happened or what he had done.

jace - you make 2 very valid and good points. It will be impossible to try to understand the events from Ben's perspective. We are all different and our judgements are going to reflect that. However, he is still going to have to answer to the events after the fact. Guilt is derived from examination of the evidence and the behavior associated with it. In determining culpability, jurors will look at all facets. 'Intent' is as much a part of physical evidence as the story his behavior will tell.

What does his behavior tell you? We all are aware that a young girl died but that is not enough ...... the trial is going to be presented with many facts of Ben's 'after-the-fact' behavior to help paint a picture.

In my own opinion he is going to have a hard time "selling" his innocence based on what he did, said, and how he acted. He was the only person who knew she was dead, lying in a ravine. He knows this because she was put their by his own hands. As the waking world looked for her, he kept that knowledge to himself and portrayed himself to be a 'concerned friend'. Not missing his chance to point fingers in several directions. If his daughter died in an accident .... would he try to bury her in a ravine? Would he then put in an effort to help find his missing daughter? I doubt it. If he would be mentally fit NOT to treat his daughter that way, why should Taylor be treated any different? Both are human. Our expectations as a civilization should be based on equal treatment. You can't justify burying one person in a ravine under one circumstance but call for help in another. The laws apply across the board. Concealing an accidental death does not make it OK.

We are all entitled to have our own opinions. I form mine mostly from what Ben has said and how he has acted. It is possible that it was an accident but at this point in time I cannot sign up for that theory. I cannot look at one thing that even points in that direction.

Had he really cared about her, I believe his actions would have been different. By the way ..... at what point did he show remorse for her passing? Her family and friends have cried ..... has he? If he has, it has not been well documented.

Is he more upset about being charged with her death or with the fact she has died? Many questions on this board will get answered in the months ahead. I hope it helps the many people affected to begin the healing process. God knows the past 6 months have taken their toll on too many people. I, for one, will never look at a crescent moon the same.

[singlesix]

Okay, just for the sake of discussion, let's say he panicked. How long does a panic last? A day, two days, a week? I'm not buying that it lasted a month and I doubt that there's a sober person in the jury pool who will either.

Senator Ted Kennedy only left Mary Jo Kopechne in the river for about 8 hours before he reported to authorities that he'd driven off the bridge and killed her while his wife was sitting home with the children.

singlesix

[Cino]

Oy. I think I've lost all my energy for trying to find new ways to say what I keep saying over and over again. There are so many things that many of you don't and won't understand.

MATTHEWSEVENONE, if you're open to discussing all facets of the case openly, why bother blocking me?

Would I have more credibility in your mind if I had said "Oh my, yes, that IS a distinct possibility" after every single theory that I didn't have specific problems with?

Oy. These and of course other issues are why I don't share much with you, much the same as Katie would never share anything with you. Have fun piecing things together, discounting theories that are still possibilities, and creating flimsy theories that no one who knows of their flimsiness is going to inform you of. Here's a health to the healthy theories.

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by protectkidz
I wish so much that he would pull a Joseph Smith. So many questions, so little answers. With BF's propensity for verbal diarrhea, I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.

Protect-

Maybe he has? I was thinking about the way the LE was looking for those letters. I wonder if they have a recording that caused them to want to get their hands on the letters?

Or did the DA/Investigators just take a look at a log and realize there sure were alot of letters to Hildy? Wonder why? Maybe we need to take a look?

TN - can they do that? A person in jail mails a bunch of letters and the Prosec. or Investigators want to see them-If Investigators do they need a warrant? It sounded like they just showed up and asked each party about the letters- don't recall any warrant mentioned.

I am curious how it all would have worked. And once more, we have heard around 50 (maybe just rounding up) and we have heard 40 something. Is there a log that shows what mail leaves the jail? Is there a way to know the exact number?

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by Cino
Okay then Paula, we'll just have to agree to disagree. You just keep on hoping that Taylor had the worst death possible and I'll just have to keep on not being vicious. I don't understand why you so much like the idea of Taylor dying in terror--I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemies, let alone someone I cared about--but I suppose that's part of what makes us different.

This is one case in which I point out why it's such a good idea for people to be different than each other.


To believe that Taylor died pleasurably, is to believe that this was an accident, buying into BF's lie of rough sex, specifically EA. Erin has already said that BF wasn't into that.

You'd rather believe Taylor died pleasurably because it would make it look as though your friend BF, who has now taken to wearing his murderous deed proudly, by signing his letters "killerly yours", killed Taylor accidentally.

You are not being a friend to Taylor by hoping the jury buys BF's lies. You are being a friend to BF, instead, without regard for justice being served for Taylor. Shame on you!

IMO

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by Rowan


Please provide a link for this. Thank you.

EXCERPT FROM LINK BELOW:

While Ben Fawley awaits trial on charges of killing Taylor Behl, lawyers learn he’s written nearly 50 letters to a female friend expressing his thoughts while in jail. His lawyers are a little worried about how he signed them: “Killerly yours, Ben.”


Link (http://www.styleweekly.com/article.asp?idarticle=12114)

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by joeb
Cino: I havent posted anything here for a long time. But I have a question for you. Lets say BF gets 20 years and comes out of prison in 2026. Would you want to see him then? Would you write to him while he is in prison? Would you trust him ever again after he is out of prison? Would you be scared of him and what he might do to you or others you now know?
I once knew someone convicted of murder in Fla. in 1973. He spent 30 years in the Fla. penal system and got out a couple of years ago. He emailed me. I emailed him back a few times but decided not to continue or let him know where I lived. I am not sure I believe in rehabilitation. I wish him well with the rest of his life I just dont want any connection with it.
How would you feel about BF if and when he gets out. He may get less time than you would think. I am assuming he will go to jail for some period of time since he has confessed to her death.

Hey Joeb- totally off topic --

How did that guy get your email address?

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by jace
I don't think it matters one way or another whether Taylor went willingly or not. If she did willingly go on a drive with Ben it doesn't mean that she willingly participated in any risky activity.

I personally think that Taylor died in Richmond. I think that Matthews (Erin's family's property) was the first place he thought of to dispose of her body. I only say it COULD have been an accident. I don't know and neither do you unless you know something you're not sharing with the rest of us.

No, you're right, it isn't a bullet proof theory. But neither is yours. If I were able to determine exactly what happened by the bits and pieces of information we've gotten from different news sources and this board then I would be working for LE and not posting on some crime msg. board.

JACE -

I think I must have posted wrong - I think your theory has legs. I see it has some merit. I meant YES - bullet proof. I was hoping if there were holes someone would say what they were. I am thinking.. thinking...

I agree wholehearted with you. We don't know - we weren't there. We don't have before us all of the forensics, the eyewitness accounts, all of the videos and other evidence. We have only what has been published so far. We have a timeline that is ripe with holes. There is so much we don't know yet.

But I gotta say again. Your thinking has got me thinking.

Killed in Richmond - Always thought that was a possibility too - there are so many places I have considered. I have wondered if since the Law says body found here, charges can be made here --if the police with confession in hand said OK -- we don't need to find the exact location. We have the confession! Or if they have forensics from the car or his apartment or her body or where the body was found or somewhere else in Mathews County? We don't know.

Erin's place because HEY it's remote, he knew it. Could definitely be so. He seemed to have ERIN on the brain alot- equate bad things with ERIN. Doesn't get any worse than a person dying, right? So his mind bings on Mathews County.

Maybe I have tried to put too many pieces together -reading too much into the where Taylor was found?

The biggest thing about your post to me was one of the most sutle-

"I NEVER SAID BEN WAS NORMAL".

That was like a gong to me.

Are my expectations for Ben because of his age, the fact that he has daughters, because I see bipolar people as not mentally ill --
I know this may seem odd but or me, I have known two bipolar people personally and both were exceptionally kind and detail driven. The sort of people who seemed to really be overly sensitive of others. And one of my favorite actors of all times JEREMY BRETT was bipolar. (i know the irony of him playing Sherlock Holmes is not lost to me). Of course granted there are degrees and medicated people and nonmedicated people...

But the thought occured to me

Should the jurors be asked if they know anyone bipolar and is it a plus for either side.?

I tell you JACE, you sent me off in all sorts of directions.

Wonderful things to consider - discuss.

Thanks for the great post.

:seeya:

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by Researcher

Morning, Matthew.
1.) Do you happen to have a link re MS being friends with Fawley?

2) And what car are you wondering about?

Articles indicated:
Letters are basically "friendship letters...love letters" re "semi-romantic relationship" between BF & Hildy. Their relationship was ~8/05-9/05.

Hildy received the letters in 11/05-12/05.

Hildy then sent letters to MS.

"At about the same time, Richmond investigators found out about the letters and began to seek them out."

"Anticipating that police would get a search warrant for his office and seize the letters, Johnson sent them under seal to the court to be examined by Shaw."

William Johnson, the Matthews Couty court-appointed defense atty "...has practiced law in Mathews for 15 years...serves on the county School Board, is a graduate of the T.C. Williams School of Law at the University of Richmond."

Noted Richmond Defense Atty Christopher J. Collins "has handled nearly 300 homicide cases during his 33-year career....(and) has represented (BF) since his (9/05) arrest on charges of possessing child pornography..."
http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1137833630512

Hey Researcher!

I just happened across that link that said Maria was also friend of Fawley. I thought it was the Times Dispatch.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1137835183965

"Some 46 letters written by Fawley were sent to a female friend, Katie Hildebrandt. The letters were then handed over to another friend of Fawley, Maria Serraes, who mailed them to Fawley defense attorney William E. Johnson."

Sorry it took so long.

[TN_Profiler]

Originally posted by MATTHEWsevenone


TN - can they do that? A person in jail mails a bunch of letters and the Prosec. or Investigators want to see them-If Investigators do they need a warrant? It sounded like they just showed up and asked each party about the letters- don't recall any warrant mentioned.



In a word, yes. Coversations are routinely recorded and all mail is subject to search and seizure. In the "big house", you are not granted the same privacy priviledges that people on the outside are. The exemptions apply to communication with your att'y. I can't remember if your conversations with a priest are priviledged but off the top of my head I think they are. The doctor client priviledge stays intact too.

The Carlie Brucia case had a great example of this, Joe Smith wrote his brother an incripted message which was confiscated and subsequently deciphered by an FBI expert. He also had phone conversations with his mother and brother recorded that revealed him confessing.

Somehow I knew Ben would suffer for not being able to connect to the internet. If you remember, he was fanatical about his on-line existence. Although he was on-line during weird hours, nobody can deny that he sure loved to spend hours on his pc.

From reading some of his posts .... he used the internet to express himself. He wrote about his feelings and had many active on-line social relationships. When all of that is taken away .... he needs something to release his emotions. It appears he has substituted the internet forum for the old pen and paper. Should be interested to see what good old Benny-boy has decided to share.

[MATTHEWsevenone]

TN have to agree with you here. We looked at post after post from Ben. He used the computer to communicate. And both the defense and the prosecution have recently noted that there is over 3 feet of stuff to wade through, and we all know a part of that is the internet/computer stuff of Bens.

Without it, he is now must find some way to communicate. And apparently it is by way of pen and paper.

I did want to ask - what about the artwork?

Ben used visual images as much as words to communicate online didn't he?

So isn't it very important to really look at the artwork and not simply dismiss or overlook its possible connections to all of this?

I know the Defense has claimed Sure there were elaborate drawings on the envelops but really guys, 99 percent was just personal nonrelevant stuff and only 1 percent, one letter I think was actually the measure provided to one news source - that evens deals with this case and that mirrored exactly what he confessed last Oct.

The fact that they asked for a ruling to exclude them sends up a red flag to me.

Shouldn't those letters be looked over with a fine tooth comb? Would it hurt to have someone who is an EXPERT in GOTH (is there such a thing?) or in the lingo/short hand used by college aged kids today to examine those letters closely?

For some reason it bugs me that he did not use any drawings of skulls? If that is the case. Wasn't that his trademark logo? Why omit it to a friend as devoted as Hildy? Maybe walking too far here - but I at least hope the investigators are asking why none now if pen and paper is the way he can communicate.

Just MOO.
:seeya:

[poplife]

What are you thinking he may have hidden in those letters? One thing I guess could be the location of pictures or a camera if there was one. But I don't think he would have tried to hide gory details of the crime, doesn't seem very romantic.

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Poplife - for me it is still that car! He had no car. The police were hoovering fairly early on in his direction -- yet Taylor's car was hidden, and was moved around according to the guy who lived where the car was found. And the GRNERTH tag connection? And the Blue Civic items mentioned on one of the search warrants?


When? By whom was Taylor's car moved around?

Could Ben had mentioned something about that car in those letters? And do we know where Taylor's cellphone is? Her ID? Could there be clues in those letters?

So many questions..

I WANT TO KNOW!!!

Hildy's online posts after Taylor was killed and even after Ben was arrested and confessed show a young woman who seemed very devoted to Ben.

From my seat, he had an audience whom he could trust in Hildy, didn't he?

The first question that popped in my mind was she still visiting him? She mentioned on one of her wegblogs she was very put out wit the police because she was not on the visitor list at one point.

If the answere was/is yes she was visiting, why did Ben need to write? And write so many letters? Don't people behind bars get to make phone calls on particular days? What could not be said - possibly his attorney had told him it would be recorded...- and needed to go out via the post?

That is sort of where my mind is tracking...

ALL IMO.

[MATTHEWsevenone]

I don't know exactly where to post this but I will put it here - let me know if it warrants its own thread or someone reply as a new thread -

The GRAND JURY in Mathews had ONE WITNESS testify. And after one witness testified, it took the Mathews Grand Jury less than 30 minutes to be convinced a charge of first degree murder should be levied at Ben Fawley. Could it be that he simply said - here is his confession and here are the photos of where we found Taylor? Wouldn't the Grand Jury had asked alot of questions to make sure it was not an accident?
I have never sat on a Grand Jury - how does it work?


Here is the link:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1128769376623

"It took less than a half hour for the jurors to indict Fawley after they reviewed evidence presented by the state's sole witness before the panel, Richmond police Detective J.B. Hudson."

[Cino]

Originally posted by MATTHEWsevenone
[ . . . ]
I WANT TO KNOW!!!
[ . . . ]
If the answere was/is yes she was visiting, why did Ben need to write? And write so many letters? Don't people behind bars get to make phone calls on particular days? What could not be said - possibly his attorney had told him it would be recorded...- and needed to go out via the post?[ . . . ]

Oooh, ooh, *raises hand*
Oh wait, you don't want to hear what I have to say anymore because you're interested in openly discussing all facets of the case. Sorry, I forgot.

Of course, I don't know standard policy about this kind of thing at Ben's new home.

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by Rowan


Thank you. I am curious how they got that information, so have sent an email to ask them. Appreciate the link Paula.

OK let's recap :

PTK wrote this:

protectkidz
Member

Registered: Jul 2005
Location:
Posts: 526
I wish so much that he would pull a Joseph Smith. So many questions, so little answers. With BF's propensity for verbal diarrhea, I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.

Then Vedder followed with:



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by protectkidz
I wish so much that he would pull a Joseph Smith. So many questions, so little answers. With BF's propensity for verbal diarrhea, I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Here you go PK...


While Ben Fawley awaits trial on charges of killing Taylor Behl, lawyers learn he’s written nearly 50 letters to a female friend expressing his thoughts while in jail. His lawyers are a little worried about how he signed them: “Killerly yours, Ben.”


Then Hey Paula used the closing in this post:

"To believe that Taylor died pleasurably, is to believe that this was an accident, buying into BF's lie of rough sex, specifically EA. Erin has already said that BF wasn't into that.

You'd rather believe Taylor died pleasurably because it would make it look as though your friend BF, who has now taken to wearing his murderous deed proudly, by signing his letters "killerly yours", killed Taylor accidentally.

You are not being a friend to Taylor by hoping the jury buys BF's lies. You are being a friend to BF, instead, without regard for justice being served for Taylor. Shame on you!

IMO"


Then Rowan asked Hey Paula for a link:

"BF, who has now taken to wearing his murderous deed proudly, by signing his letters "killerly yours", killed Taylor accidentally.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Please provide a link for this. Thank you."


Then Hey Paula provided the link:

"EXCERPT FROM LINK BELOW:

While Ben Fawley awaits trial on charges of killing Taylor Behl, lawyers learn he’s written nearly 50 letters to a female friend expressing his thoughts while in jail. His lawyers are a little worried about how he signed them: “Killerly yours, Ben.”


Link"


THEN ROWAN posted

"Thank you. I am curious how they got that information, so have sent an email to ask them. Appreciate the link Paula."

And instead of just completing the thread she started a brand new thread titled FYI : Regarding Ben's Letters


"FYI re: Ben's letters
Here are the comments made by Style:

THE SCORE

April 12, 2006
The Score: A weekly rating of the city zeitgeist.

-3

While Ben Fawley awaits trial on charges of killing Taylor Behl, lawyers learn he’s written nearly 50 letters to a female friend expressing his thoughts while in jail. His lawyers are a little worried about how he signed them: “Killerly yours, Ben.”


Here is the email I received in response to my question of authenticity:


Original Message:
-----------------
From: Jason Roop *******@styleweekly.com
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:41:52 -0400
To: *********
Subject: RE: Ben Fawley


Ms. Morehead,



The Score is basically made of one-liners. The first sentence includes
news from the week. The second sentence is a joke.



No, I haven't seen the letters.



Thanks for reading,

Jason Roop



Jason Roop

Editor

Style Weekly"

And I was accused of maybe not being even handed so I researched all and offered this following post as clarity for every thread involved.

I am replying to this thread - even though I think it did not need to its own thread -- but anyway.

FOR ANY ONE WHO DOES NOT ORDINARILY READ

STYLE MAG.

"The Score: A weekly rating of the city zeitgeist."

is a page devoted to one liners about a story in the news.

For some reason, instead of just reading the whole page and seeing the context, looking up the word Zeitgeist, and seeing it for what it was, Rowan sent someone at the Mag. an email ABOUT the "AUTHENTICITY" of the first oneliner about Ben's Jailhouse letters to Hildy. This person replied apparently and explained to her that is A JOKE PAGE.
And she felt compelled to start this thread.

For clarity purposes and in the pursuit of honesty -

Zeitgeist is a German word and it means "Spirit of the Times".

It is meant in this context by this publication to be a snappy title to a tonque in cheek social commentary. THINK BOB HOPE. For the record, STYLE MAG is owned by Landmark a huge media company which also puts out the Virginian Pilot and other newspapers. They have won all kinds of awards for integrity and excellence. They know the difference between fact and fiction.

I think the problem here is someone(s) took it to be fact without really doing the work to put it in context and consider the source or was just trying to funny. I don't know. I don't care. What is remarkable is this thread exists at all IMO.

Here is the rest of the page - hopefully the clouds will part...

0

Thousands of people rally in Monroe Park over the weekend, the T-D reports, to support easier ways for illegal immigrants to gain citizenship. One idea floated is to enter the country legally.

+2

The School Board seat of Stephen B. Johnson, who resigned after being caught with pot at Richmond International Airport, is filled by Betsy Carr, an outreach director at St. Paul’s Episcopal Church. Boring! What’s a school board without the sex and drugs?

-1

Mayor Wilder’s performing arts committee holds its first press conference, but offers little new information, indirectly answers reporters’ questions and generally says to wait until its report comes out May 1. The dance season is kicking off early with a lot of sidestepping.

+1

Gasp! “American Idol” fans see hometown singer Elliott Yamin drop into the show’s “bottom three” for the first time. Watch your back, Ace. We’ve had about enough of your purty boy attitude.


********

So for anyone to assert that this publication has tried to misrepresent some fact of this case just can't understand the joke or apparently the reply from the folks at Style!

IMO
For Pete's Sake this is silly, isn't it?

ALL IMO. TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY, WITH AN OPEN MIND, AND AS EVENHANDED AS I CAN BE.

[jace]

Wasn't all this posted on the other two threads or am I having deja vu? :confused:

[singlesix]

Not everyone reads every thread. Wouldn't want anyone to get confused. ;)

singlesix

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by jace
Wasn't all this posted on the other two threads or am I having deja vu? :confused:

JACE-

I posted on all three threads where this stuff went. Sorry if confusing. You are fine! Just fantastically fine!



:seeya:

[MATTHEWsevenone]

On Valentine's Day, there was a hearing in Mathews. THe trial was slated to begin in May. Mr. Johnson at that time said NOPE BEN DOESN'T NEED TO BE MOVED TO SALUDA. (3 month window)

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1137834080348

Then the LETTERS SURFACE.

THere are motions filed by the Defense.

1. Have the letters marked as confidential and outside of discovery

2. A continuance

3. Ben to be moved to Saluda.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1137835183965

Does anyone know if all of these motions were in writing and submitted before the hearing began or if the continuance and the move were on the heels of the Judge saying NOPE, the letters are evidence. Give them to the Prosecution?

Here is my nagging question...

Three months out prior to Letters - defense did not need Ben in Saluda.

Now a four month window before Trial and the Defense is asking Ben be moved to Saluda.

Why now? What changed?

Doesn't it peek anyone else's curiosity?

Why in Feb. it was not necessary to move Ben in order to prep Ben - he does have one attorney in Richmond most days anyway and this is the attorney whom Ben has known the longest. It is also the attorney with the most specialized experience in murder cases, right? SO if the reason was to prep him - wouldn't it have been easier for him and his attorneys to keep him in Richmond?

All imo.

[poplife]

Matt- thanks for your def on zeitgeist the other day. Peek=pique. http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/pique

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by poplife
Matt- thanks for your def on zeitgeist the other day. Peek=pique. http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/pique

Poplife --

My first thought when I see the word pique is a fabric that is almost impossible to find these days and one of my favorites!

What I don't understand is what you mean by

peek = pique on this thread?

Maybe you could elaborate? Or someone could clue me in?

:seeya:

DUH - I think I just got it --- I misspelled pique didnt I?

I get to typing so fast and hate that spell check -

I am sorry. Here I was scratching my head wondering what in the world you were trying to say.

There needs to be little icon that throws a pie in its face!

Since there isn't I will just :punch: myself.

[Researcher]

Originally posted by MATTHEWsevenone

Hey Researcher!

I just happened across that link that said Maria was also friend of Fawley. I thought it was the Times Dispatch.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1137835183965

"Some 46 letters written by Fawley were sent to a female friend, Katie Hildebrandt. The letters were then handed over to another friend of Fawley, Maria Serraes, who mailed them to Fawley defense attorney William E. Johnson."

Sorry it took so long.
Thanks for finding that link, Matthew!

And BTW, your wondering about what those letters might possibly have communicated below the surface is an interesting direction. I recall some thread in which we all had a fascinating discussion...basically brainstorming what some of Ben's photos (content as well as sequencing) might possibly MEAN. I've always been particularly interested in Hildy's writing...it always seemed to hold some latent meaning, decipherable possible only to a select few...that included Ben.

Of course it is human nature to try to "fill in the gaps" when trying to make meaning out of incomplete puzzles....like finding images in clouds or in Rorschach cards. So our searching for and seeming to find "secret" meaning in Ben's photos or letters or Hildy's writing could actually reflect more about our own internal workings than about events in this case, the people who populate it, and their relationships. Hard to tell until the trial provides more info.

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Originally posted by Researcher

Thanks for finding that link, Matthew!

And BTW, your wondering about what those letters might possibly have communicated below the surface is an interesting direction. I recall some thread in which we all had a fascinating discussion...basically brainstorming what some of Ben's photos (content as well as sequencing) might possibly MEAN. I've always been particularly interested in Hildy's writing...it always seemed to hold some latent meaning, decipherable possible only to a select few...that included Ben.

Of course it is human nature to try to "fill in the gaps" when trying to make meaning out of incomplete puzzles....like finding images in clouds or in Rorschach cards. So our searching for and seeming to find "secret" meaning in Ben's photos or letters or Hildy's writing could actually reflect more about our own internal workings than about events in this case, the people who populate it, and their relationships. Hard to tell until the trial provides more info.

What wise words RESEARCHER!

I too have been very interested in Hildy's writings. Glad to see I was/am not alone.

Hope the trial will help provide more info.

:seeya:

[becurious]

Originally posted by MATTHEWsevenone


What wise words RESEARCHER!

I too have been very interested in Hildy's writings. Glad to see I was/am not alone.

Hope the trial will help provide more info.

:seeya:

Has Hildy written something besides her journal? Have I missed something?

[Researcher]

Originally posted by becurious
Has Hildy written something besides her journal? Have I missed something?
Hi, becurious.
You may want to take a look at the looking at the following thread:
CTV: Hildy & DarkEvilGoth (http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?postid=7088547#post7088547)

[Taxgirl2006]

I originally posted this in another thread, and it was brought to my attention that I should post it here, so here it is.




Letters from jail
Hi, everyone...

Thought this link would answer some questions about the letters, and the Richmond City Jail's handling of them.

Katie states in this link to her livejournalyou have to scroll down to get to it)
http://hildybrant.livejournal.com/172392.html

Quote:Richmond City Jail actually stamps each outgoing envelope to say specifically that they do not censor or inspect the outgoing mail in any way, shape, or form, nor do they take any responsibility for its contents.


Have a Great Day!!!

:beer:

[MATTHEWsevenone]

Does this mean that they don't know how many letters Ben sent?

[Taxgirl2006]

I don't know, but by the statement that Hildy made, it sounds like they don't keep any records of the mail going out of the jail there in Richmond.