New statement from Dr. Godwin [Archive] - Crime Library Message Boards

Atok

03-29-2006, 01:02 PM

It seemed like it still would have been effective if he hadn't named anyone. Does MH need more heat?

However, I am sure he has his reasons and the methods work in ways I don't need to be privy to.

I would be surprised if local LE did the type of geographical or triangulating data that is Dr. Godwin's specialty. It's a specialized skill and why he was asked to consider Tara's case.

Does Ocilla and that region of Georgia even have three cell towers for triangulation purposes??

From the outside it looks like local LE followed their rules for processing a missing adult. It looks like THAT protocol is what needs to be changed in the future so that scenes and items are not compromised like they were in this instance.

From the outside, now that we all commonly believe something untoward happened and she didn't just go shopping... it looks like a sloppy investigation. They can't change those things NOW.

I have heard from lots of people saying that LE/GBI and locals have all been worried and trying and using what they know... WHILE doing their other jobs. LE work didn't stop when Tara went missing. Other cases are still open, other issues still happen every day.

I am sure this case and it's handling and the fact that it isn't solved yet is very concerning to most anyone who has a heart.

Esah

03-29-2006, 01:59 PM

Atok, I agree with you about DrG putting only one set of initials in his release. That wasn't professional to me either. That just makes me think he doesn't have a clue and is going along with the popular vote just to get readership.

I would like to know if he did this triangulation method on Tara's cel phone? Even though it ended up beside her bed that night, doesn't mean it was there all night!

I like the fact that DrG is doing this roaming signal check. It sounds like an avenue that will provide some much needed info in Tara's case. I just hope that he has a long list of names to check! It seems to me that the ones we've been debating over for 5 months, may be the short list.

fsbiii

03-29-2006, 02:34 PM

Can anyone verify that the good doc even has Marcus Harper's cell phone records? Last I knew, he was going to attempt to obtain a court order to get them. I wasn't sure how he intended to do that or if it panned out for him. Has something changed since that time?

NancynNC

03-29-2006, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Ocillian

Where was this statement made?

It is posted at http://www.findtara.com/

Atok

03-29-2006, 04:32 PM

I can understand why MH wouldn't want to release his phone records to Dr. Godwin when Dr. Godwin works for the Gattis family and it is obvious that at least Anita feels MH is guilty; AT FIRST LOOK.

Assuming MH has nothing to hide and that the information gleaned is nothing that can be twisted in any way ~ just basic math facts~ then it's in MH's best interest to do this. I agree that it would be a very shrewd move by MH's attorney to offer them.

So ON SECOND LOOK: I don't see how witholding the records is good move for him at ALL. Assuming his innocence.

Atok

03-29-2006, 05:50 PM

There are people on here that know MH personally. Perhaps someone could suggest to him how helpful this act would be.

It would open up the minds that are closed about him, it would show good faith and a desire to see her found. If he could make that gesture it would do alot for the negative energy all around.

I'm not saying only MH needs to make concillatory gestures or provide records or proof to what they've given as alibi's etc. Many people could ease the tensions with a little more working togetherness.

How about a great big multi- church and community "potluck dinner"?
This community needs a positive focus to re-energize everyone. Get the teens involved. Make the tables all round so no one can line up in "camps".

Please don't blast me for thinking the community can do something that seems "celebratory" when there is nothing but grim suspicions and sadness all around. I think a cathartic get together might actually help unite people again.

Karasu0

03-31-2006, 05:28 AM

Here is a site to check out all the cell phone towers as well as other towers in the Ocilla area. www.cellreception.com

jela72

03-31-2006, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by Karasu0
Here is a site to check out all the cell phone towers as well as other towers in the Ocilla area. www.cellreception.com

Thanks, Karasu0 :)

Hmmm, seems there are 4 or 5 towers & 2 of those appear very close together (as depicted on the Ocilla Map, that is). On that same map, I have no idea where Tara's house is in relation to these towers....

I am assuming the map is up-to-date and shows all towers?

Here's a comment extracted from your link, by a resident in Ocilla re: his/her experience with the towers:

My son put me on his Sprint share plan because I had terrible Verizon coverage out here, and Sprint is okay. I had to get a Tifton number because they don't sell service in Ocilla. It turns out they will roam on Alltel or Verizon if there are no Sprint towers around, and since roaming is free it's all the same to me and I have decent coverage most places I go. I drive from here to Florida and Alabama every week for work and my Sprint phone works in a lot of places Verizon wouldn't. Sprint is definitely better than Verizon in SW Georgia!

janis

03-31-2006, 08:46 AM

Brainstorming again. I know I am not even close to being an investigator, but...........why in God's name can't they take the cell phone records, pinpoint the POI whereabouts, and match it to the clay sample found on the tire? I'm sure it's not easy, but GOD IT SOUNDS SO SIMPLE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>YEA, I'm just a little bit frustrated.

sweettater

03-31-2006, 09:06 AM

J4T, to whom were they not willing to turn their records over? Was it LE or Dr. Godwin? That would be interesting to know. Also, of course, it would be very interesting to know who cooperated and who refused. But I think both questions need to be answered to truly evaluate the possible reasons they may not have chosen to do so. JMO, as always.

sweettater

03-31-2006, 09:48 AM

You have a very good point. I was just thinking if I was one of the poi's, whether guilty or not of anything, I would be extremely cautious about turning over anything like that to anyone except LE. I would think that would just be common sense. If someone DID turn them over,I think that makes them look more innocent of any wrongdoing. However, just because they did NOT, I can't say that it makes them look guilty IMO.
BTW, if I lived in Ocilla, GA, I would be PROUD to say so anywhere, on any message board, to anyone. All the people I know from there are good, decent people that I am very proud to be acquainted with. (Suffice it to say, it's FINE with me if you wish to believe that I live there! I consider it a compliment! Thanks!) :)

fsbiii

03-31-2006, 10:14 AM

Unless something drastic has happened, I seriously doubt MH has turned over anything to Dr. Godwin. But you're right, seeker, Dr. G's declaration on the website implies he has the records. I guess only he knows for sure. We'll have to wait and see.

Luckys_Wife

03-31-2006, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by Justice4Tara
MH for one.
Unless you are LE or GBI how could you know? I doubt that information is told to just anyone.

fsbiii

03-31-2006, 03:36 PM

Can that be verified? I'm not sure how a private eye gets a court order for someone's cellular phone records.

fsbiii

03-31-2006, 03:55 PM

Let me rephrase then:

Can that be verified? I'm not sure how a criminal psychologist who develops psychological profiles based on crime scene reconstruction gets a court order for someone's cellular phone records.

NancynNC

03-31-2006, 04:01 PM

This is completely off topic, but they made an arrest today of boyfriend in the Nona Dirksmeyer murder. Great news.

http://www.pbcommercial.com/articles/2006/03/31/ap-state-ar/d8gmnpq85.txt

Luckys_Wife

03-31-2006, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by CashCrop

you know I like that "I heard" this or that language you all use here you know but for once you got something right, I mean you heard right or whatever. Yah all those agencies are involved. I didnt even know this type of free for all existed, you know this is fun, but I need a couple of beers to even digest all this junk I read here. But yeah, that's right what you said Sissy.

Its Sassy not Sissy....

Another thing....Being rude does not make your claims any more believable than anyone elses. IMO And the very fact that you are here makes me wonder just how "right" we may actually be! Good try though....

fsbiii

03-31-2006, 10:13 PM

He changed the statement? It no longer says MH's records? That must mean he doesn't have them. So much for the court order that was allegedly obtained.

Saunterer

03-31-2006, 10:20 PM

Originally posted by fsbiii
He changed the statement? It no longer says MH's records? That must mean he doesn't have them. So much for the court order that was allegedly obtained. His statement is changed on findtara.com (edited today)! Too late Dr. G ... we all saw the original version ... IMO.

mooloo

03-31-2006, 10:21 PM

Wait a minute!

Are you including the rabbit ears at Peck's? HOw about the pie plate welded onto the side of the water tower?

And that piece of lead pipe stuck straight up in the middle of the field on the road to Douglas?

One thing we'uns in Ocilla is is teknilogically advanced.

3 cell towers?--get outta town.

Back to playing in traffic...

Originally posted by Ocillian
Does Ocilla and that region of Georgia even have three cell towers for triangulation purposes?? Yes.

fsbiii

03-31-2006, 10:31 PM

Why change the statement if he had MH's cell phone records? Sounds to me like the first statement was wrong and led people to expect something that won't be forthcoming. Maybe I'm wrong. I'd love to see a good cell phone call analysis on a lot of characters involved.

Saunterer

03-31-2006, 10:39 PM

MOO- probably had to do with the integrity and/or liability of findtara.com. Doesn't matter as long as the study of MH's records and others is happening.

Saunterer

03-31-2006, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by mooloo
Wait a minute!

Are you including the rabbit ears at Peck's? HOw about the pie plate welded onto the side of the water tower?

And that piece of lead pipe stuck straight up in the middle of the field on the road to Douglas?

One thing we'uns in Ocilla is is teknilogically advanced.

3 cell towers?--get outta town.

Back to playing in traffic... Type in Ocilla, GA:

http://www.cellreception.com/towers/towers.php

NancynNC

03-31-2006, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by CashCrop

He did get a court order for the records. Anyone wonder where MH was headed this afternoon?

I expect someone is watching..

NancynNC

03-31-2006, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by Saunterer
Type in Ocilla, GA:

http://www.cellreception.com/towers/towers.php

Wow, Saunterer, you are the best.

They popped up like balloons.

NancynNC

04-01-2006, 03:16 AM

Originally posted by popcorn
As I understand it, just knowing where the towers are located is not enough. There's a mathematical algorithms that must be used to analysis the distances and triangular areas.

Someone hinted before that there were not many towers around Ocilla. Glad to know there are.
Of course you are correct and I am sure that is going on now.

singlesix

04-04-2006, 10:24 AM

Georgia: Title 4, Chapter 8:

a person may:

(1) Defend his person or property, or the person or property of another, from injury or damage being caused by a dog; or

(2) Kill any dog causing injury or damage to any livestock or poultry.

________

AFAIK there is a similar law in every state.

singlesix

suzee

04-05-2006, 01:18 PM

Marcus Harper has been an animal lover since he was old enough to crawl. He has had pets of all kinds: two legs, fours legs and sometimes even six or more legs. As a matter of fact, Tara's beloved Dolly was a gift to her from Marcus. Marcus has always shown compassion and respect to all God's creatures. The thread started about him shooting a dog is a mistake. I hate to say that it is a lie, because that in return calls someone a liar, however Marcus would never hurt an animal UNLESS there was not another solution to the situation. Knowing Marcus all his life, I have not ever heard of this story. I have heard of the many animals he picked up on the side of the road and brought home to nurture and care for. I also have watched as morned the loss of his favorite pet when he returned from serving our country. There are many things on this board that have upset me as I am sure there are things that have upset other families, but I do know that Marcus has not killed some little girls dog and this is just another one of the many attacks on his character. Please try and remember, if there is not a direct link to the information, consider it a rumor. And as the investigators tell everyone..... Only be concerned with facts, rumors destroy families and hinder the investigation.

janis

04-05-2006, 01:46 PM

I also have watched as morned the loss of his favorite pet when he returned from serving our country.

You must be a family member.......

zorro

04-05-2006, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by suzee
Marcus Harper has been an animal lover since he was old enough to crawl. He has had pets of all kinds: two legs, fours legs and sometimes even six or more legs. As a matter of fact, Tara's beloved Dolly was a gift to her from Marcus. Marcus has always shown compassion and respect to all God's creatures. The thread started about him shooting a dog is a mistake. I hate to say that it is a lie, because that in return calls someone a liar, however Marcus would never hurt an animal UNLESS there was not another solution to the situation. Knowing Marcus all his life, I have not ever heard of this story. I have heard of the many animals he picked up on the side of the road and brought home to nurture and care for. I also have watched as morned the loss of his favorite pet when he returned from serving our country. There are many things on this board that have upset me as I am sure there are things that have upset other families, but I do know that Marcus has not killed some little girls dog and this is just another one of the many attacks on his character. Please try and remember, if there is not a direct link to the information, consider it a rumor. And as the investigators tell everyone..... Only be concerned with facts, rumors destroy families and hinder the investigation.

I had not seen it posted on here that he shot a little girl's dog. So is the story fact or fiction? Makes you wonder when someone defending MH's actions adds details to the accusation.
IMO

oldyeller

04-05-2006, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by zorro

I had not seen it posted on here that he shot a little girl's dog. So is the story fact or fiction? Makes you wonder when someone defending MH's actions adds details to the accusation.
IMO

it was said by cashcrop before his posts got deleted. my wondering is about cashcrop's source and reasons and not this persons. that's just me tho. it is better to stay away from saying stuff that can't be backed up so people dont get mad and start fighting about it. looks like we got enough fighting allready.

since this is about the new statement from the good dr maybe we should be talking about that instead.

did he ever say what he found out about everbodys phone tower records? i am looking forward to hearing about that. maybe it will help.

BFD - v2.0

04-20-2006, 12:04 PM

It's been nearly a month. Where's the analysis? Where's the chart?

gacountry

04-20-2006, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by BFD - v2.0
It's been nearly a month. Where's the analysis? Where's the chart?

BFD - v2.0
I do not mean to disrespect you but if Dr. Godwin came on today and gave you everything he has found even if it would render the case inaddmissable in a court of law, would this make you happy?
I think not. You seem to be an intelligent person but you do seem terribly one sided on your views of Dr. Godwin. We that have lived this horror have learned to welcome any port in the storm. We need someone to come in and rattle the cage and get people to thinking. Some people say this will divide our community even more but we have to have something to grasp.
Maybe if some of you that are so resourceful in getting evidence up could work together instead of trying to rip each other apart, we could let Tara have her much needed rest.
I will continue to give Dr. Godwin any assistance in any way I can with his search for Tara.

BFD - v2.0

04-20-2006, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by gacountry

BFD - v2.0
I do not mean to disrespect you but if Dr. Godwin came on today and gave you everything he has found even if it would render the case inaddmissable in a court of law, would this make you happy?
I think not. You seem to be an intelligent person but you do seem terribly one sided on your views of Dr. Godwin. We that have lived this horror have learned to welcome any port in the storm. We need someone to come in and rattle the cage and get people to thinking. Some people say this will divide our community even more but we have to have something to grasp.
Maybe if some of you that are so resourceful in getting evidence up could work together instead of trying to rip each other apart, we could let Tara have her much needed rest.
I will continue to give Dr. Godwin any assistance in any way I can with his search for Tara.

Inadmissable in court? How so? He's a private citizen just as I am. He has no police powers. Chain of evidence and corroboration are his keys. As long as he doesn't drop the keys, everything is just fine.

Dr. Godwin and I use the same methods. (Very few use these methods) I applaud his desire, I'm just not so sure of his results.

The idea of having these constant "updates" with tidbits of information that have absolutely no meat to them isn't helping to find Tara. Has anything been corroborated at all? Anything?

Esah

04-20-2006, 04:26 PM

BFD, I wish the family would use your talents as well. It sounds like you have quite a grasp of the situation and the way to make a huge difference. I enjoy your posts immensely. They are informative and well said.

kebo

04-20-2006, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by BFD - v2.0

Inadmissable in court? How so? He's a private citizen just as I am. He has no police powers. Chain of evidence and corroboration are his keys. As long as he doesn't drop the keys, everything is just fine.

Dr. Godwin and I use the same methods. (Very few use these methods) I applaud his desire, I'm just not so sure of his results.

The idea of having these constant "updates" with tidbits of information that have absolutely no meat to them isn't helping to find Tara. Has anything been corroborated at all? Anything?

BFD, maybe we could expect a visit to our fair city by you & maybe you & DrG could work together? Like Gacountry says, we welcome any and all help, so please, if you are able to make it, the welcome mat is out.

Thanks
:rose: :rose: :rose:

BFD - v2.0

04-20-2006, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by kebo

BFD, maybe we could expect a visit to our fair city by you & maybe you & DrG could work together? Like Gacountry says, we welcome any and all help, so please, if you are able to make it, the welcome mat is out.

Thanks
:rose: :rose: :rose:

I have actually thought about it. But I work a little differently. No one would know I was there. No media, no cameras, nobody would know I was there except for the folks back home as a safety precaution.

If I was to go, it would be at least another month before I could do so... and hopefully Tara will be found before that time.

But I would love to work with Godwin. He's an advocate of inductive investigation and I agree 1000% with those methods. I just don't think it would ever occur. I work surreptitiously, but legally.

Putting an ear to the ground, so to speak. And in a small town, it's best to do things quietly.

So, it's very possible I may be down there soon. This case has piqued my interest quite a bit. It's not every day someone just vanishes with minimal evidence as to how it was accomplished.

luvmy2labpups

04-20-2006, 05:19 PM

Who is this guy and how is he going to do anything with cell phone records? Did he get a subpoena?

luvmy2labpups

04-20-2006, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by Results

I think you should go down there. I think those cell phone records will clear MH and several others. I am not too sure about Dr. G he maybe a wonderful person like everyone says he is but I do know this for sure he made a statement that the perp/perps came back after 12:15 AM when HD left in front of Tara's house who is to say that HD didn't go back and clean the place up. The glove wasn't there when HD was there but 8 hrs later it was. (I don't buy it). The simple fact that the family and HD and anyone on Tara's family side never said that HD was at her house MON 12:15 AM. Something is not right there. Also, BIL goes on national TV and says that Tara didn't have a dad YET where her Father works is putting up most of the reward money. Also, the time that MH was suppose to holler these vulgar words to her at a stop light just found out he was out of the country. That is why I won't you to go down there. I don't think your bias and I truly believe you will do what is right you have nothing to lose or gain to find out who did it. JMHO

Help me out here, who is this Doctor saying did this and why? What is he a doctor of and why is a doctor trying to solve a crime? Is he a pathologist, forensic doctor, etc?

victoria01

04-20-2006, 06:36 PM

luv, welcome to the board. to help you get up to speed on here and to answer all your questions go to CourtTV Crime Library and then go Tara Grinstead Full Coverage. They have the case layed out as it happened. Read, read,read!

luvmy2labpups

04-20-2006, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by victoria01
luv, welcome to the board. to help you get up to speed on here and to answer all your questions go to CourtTV Crime Library and then go Tara Grinstead Full Coverage. They have the case layed out as it happened. Read, read,read!

I have tried to read as much as I have time for but maybe I am just clueless. To me it seems that there really isn't anything to hang your hat on. There seems to be a lot of speculation being tossed around without any facts to back it up. I would like to see ANYTHING that is solid. As far as Maurice Godwin, I am gathering that he is in the psychology field, is that correct? If so, why on earth is he being held in such high esteem? It would seem that throughout all cases there are always several psychologists that are willing to gain some notority by placing themselves front and center in the case and using their armchair psychology to diagnose without fact or even meeting people. Maybe I have misunderstood something, but I sure hope Tara's family isn't banking on this man to find Tara. It seems as he is beyond the scope of his education with his attempts to work on cell phones, etc. Poor guy probably is so vested in this case he is willing to go to great lengths to help, but he should probably consider staying in the boundries of what he is trained to do.:shrug:

mooloo

04-20-2006, 09:09 PM

If all these towers are available, how is it that I can be riding along, talking merrily on the phone, going from Abbeville to Ocilla and when I get past Fitzgerald, BAM!! My calls are dropped like a hot potato. Not every time, but often enough. I know a lot of things affect a cell phone's reception, but dang, there are bunches of towers around Fitz and Ocilla. Do Alltel, Verizon, Cingular, etc., all use these towers or do they use the ones they thing are necessary.

I need to ask for a refund for some of my service, obviously. :cuss:

Originally posted by popcorn
As I understand it, just knowing where the towers are located is not enough. There's a mathematical algorithms that must be used to analysis the distances and triangular areas.

Babes

04-21-2006, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by fsbiii
Why change the statement if he had MH's cell phone records? Sounds to me like the first statement was wrong and led people to expect something that won't be forthcoming. Maybe I'm wrong. I'd love to see a good cell phone call analysis on a lot of characters involved.

IMO Maybe he already has those records but they need to change the statement because they will question him how did he get a hold of those records.

Rick Karon

04-21-2006, 01:18 AM

FSbii,

I think people read too much about things they read here and in the news. I think Dr. Godwin knows what he is doing with the phone records better than the vrest of us do and could care less what we think.

fsbiii

04-21-2006, 01:28 AM

You are so right, Rick. So very right.

luvmy2labpups

04-21-2006, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by Rick Karon
FSbii,

I think people read too much about things they read here and in the news. I think Dr. Godwin knows what he is doing with the phone records better than the vrest of us do and could care less what we think. How did he obtain cell phone roaming records or MH's records at all? If this is a correct statement by him, I would have to guess MH didn't offer up his records nor would Dr. Godwin be able to obtain these records through court order as I understand it there is no case in court. So if this is a fact and he has obtained those records, my question is how. I would bet that I am not the only one who would question how either. The only other thing I can think of is that perhaps this is maybe just false information being put out, is that possible?

concernedperson

04-21-2006, 07:48 AM

Maybe another agency obtained the records and asked for assistence from Dr. Godwin. It is possible that Dr. Godwin is a consultant for several LE agencies as his work is non-standard.

Dr. Henry Lee comes to mind right now. He was called in on the Smith case and FBI gave him info. He spoke of many things about the case but not enough to hinder prosecution. And not enough to tell you exactly what he found.

luvmy2labpups

04-21-2006, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by concernedperson
Maybe another agency obtained the records and asked for assistence from Dr. Godwin. It is possible that Dr. Godwin is a consultant for several LE agencies as his work is non-standard.

Dr. Henry Lee comes to mind right now. He was called in on the Smith case and FBI gave him info. He spoke of many things about the case but not enough to hinder prosecution. And not enough to tell you exactly what he found. What LE agency would have given him those records? I can't imagine them letting their records be given willy nilly to a Dr. Do you know/is it a fact that he was hired by LE? I thought that he volunteered to help the family. If that is the case, I would assume because she is still missing, that nobody is out of the circle of suspicion yet and they should not freely be giving any information out before they have concluded their investigation and Tara has either been returned home safely or there has been a finding of her body. I guess what I am trying to say, is that it is one thing to be hired by LE to help them solve a case, and quite another to volunteer for the family. If LE retained him, then I would assume he would have access to their records. Even then, I believe LE would have to go through the court to obtain those records right?

concernedperson

04-21-2006, 08:28 AM

Dr. Godwin was hire by the family to assist. Sealed search warrants happen all the time.....yesterday an illegal immigrant sting happened in 8 states simultaneously.

The point I was trying to make was that Dr. Lee was hired by the Smith family and yet the FBI assisted him with info. He went on several shows with some info to discuss. Not all, of course, but some.

fsbiii

04-21-2006, 08:33 AM

1) He wasn't "hired" by anyone.

2) Are we now comparing Dr. Henry Lee to Dr. Grover Maurice Godwin? That's quite a stretch IMO. Apples and oranges. Actually, apples and little red tomatoes.

3) Dr. Godwin ONLY has the cell phone records of those who voluntarily gave them to him, which I imagine included HD and not many others. Can I prove that? No. Can he prove he has anyone else's? No. Does it matter, really? No.

There is a TREMENDOUS about of bluffing and other "tactics" taking place in these press releases, amended press releases, statements given to the website, statements removed from the website, etc. Just follow the pattern and read between the lines.

BFD - v2.0

04-21-2006, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by fsbiii
1) He wasn't "hired" by anyone.

2) Are we now comparing Dr. Henry Lee to Dr. Grover Maurice Godwin? That's quite a stretch IMO. Apples and oranges. Actually, apples and little red tomatoes.

3) Dr. Godwin ONLY has the cell phone records of those who voluntarily gave them to him, which I imagine included HD and not many others. Can I prove that? No. Can he prove he has anyone else's? No. Does it matter, really? No.

There is a TREMENDOUS about of bluffing and other "tactics" taking place in these press releases, amended press releases, statements given to the website, statements removed from the website, etc. Just follow the pattern and read between the lines.

I agree. Comparing apples to elephants. Two completely different things.

Here's the issue I have with all of the amateurish attempts at sweating someone:
It is a common defense tactic to claim tunnel vision and a myopic view of an investigation.

If, by chance, the perp happens to be the favorite suspect, what do people think all of these posts/press releases, etc., would look like in a jury trial?

A defense attorney would have a field day with some of this stuff and presenting it to a jury to show how his client was railroaded and could probably even make a good case for manufacturing evidence and obstruction of justice if some of this stuff isn't rooted in any fact whatsoever.

Yes, everyone wants Tara found. But look down the road a little bit further. Once she's found, someone will most likely be prosecuted in the future. Is there anything on this board that a defense attorney could use to assist their client against any future charges?

I would say, "heck yes".

BFD - v2.0

04-21-2006, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by MATTHEWsevenone

*snipped*

We have been back and forth about whether MH and his attorney, IF INNOCENT, might not just GIVE the stuff to Dr. Godwin to move stuff along.

*snipped*

Statements like this drive me nuts. It is not incumbent upon Marcus Harper to "prove" his innocence to anyone. He doesn't even have to do that for the police (but it sure goes a long way when you can do so).

So an investigator brought in (not under the umbrella of the acting authority, and working directly with Marcus' most vocal critics) would surely not expect to get some cooperation, right?

And this is nothing personal against you Veracity, it's the general mindset (constitutionally speaking) that we have people in our society that still believe someone should have to prove innocence. And unfortunately that mindset is getting broader and broader. It's scary. Downright scary in my opinion.

Atok

04-21-2006, 04:23 PM

It's very nice and QUITE A RELIEF to see regulars from the other sections of CTV enter the fray on this case. Bring all the sharp minds here!

All of you are incredibly welcome to dig in and try to help, there is plenty of room, plenty of controversy and very few nails or brass tacks with which to hold one thought together with another.

I've seen excellent questions brought up, still no answers though. I know you regulars are going to find this case very IRregular.

Proceedure/theory/clues and everything... all in a sea of fog.

But your experience will help alot. Thank you for jumping in, even if it's a steep learning curve, thank you.

luvmy2labpups

04-21-2006, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by fep

My thinking mostly but some knowledge
I would hope GBI is willing to work with Dr. G. and help him obtain any investigative materials he needs if he does not have the power to get it himself. The GBI knows exactly what channels they must go through to get any phone record needed and if they have not already done this, shame on them. If they are not willing to share them with Dr. G. double shame on them. Dr. G is not any off street investigator and I believe he can help solve this case.

There is what I would call greed for power control within different divisions of LE and if this is the case within this GBI office then they may not share anything with Dr. G.
This power control sometimes is so great that LE may even jeopardize a case getting solved than help another division of LE or investigator solve the case and get the credit.

It does not need to be a court case before phone records can be obtained, this make no sense for the investigation system to work like that. When and if this case ever gets to be a court case believe you me that any phone record that will help prosecute a person will be already included with other evidence usually before even an arrest is made or a warrant taken for an arrest. After the arrest the case is presented to the proper grandjury to be billed or not. If a true bill is issued then case goes to court.

Can GBI get phone records of poi during investigation? You bet ya

What avenue GBI go through to get records? I don't know but I do know it is done everyday. My guess would be it is done through the Superior Court Judge for area.

Does Dr. G have the same ability to obtain phone records as GBI? I simply do not know. He certainly can contact the Superior Court Judge and show probable cause and if proper procedure allows this to take place then he can get records if law does not allow this then it cant be done.

Is GBI sharing phone record information with Dr. G? I simply do not know.

Does GBI have phone records of poi? If they don't they need to retire today.

When I get my cell phone billing statements it shows information of location, city and state of the cell tower my outgoing call originated. It will show if user is in Ocilla, Fitzgerald, Tifton, Douglas, Ambrose, Eufaula Ala. etc. (designates the location, city and state , of the cell tower or switching center which processed the call.) Statement shows if it in an incoming call, the number calling me and my location (tower used) when call was received. Statement does not show location of the incoming call only number of person calling. The incoming callers' statement would show their location if using a cell phone. I think I have this all correct.
GBI has some powers that do not require a court order from proper Judge of court. A perfect example is a short time ago the bunch in the Douglas GBI office went to the Coffee County magistrate judge's office (which probably contain open records) and searched through a lot of records and this was confirmed by someone in the Superior Court Systen and describes it simply as a form of harrassment to show GBI powers.
Hi, thanks for the explanation. In the real world we would like to think that the GBI would be willing to work with anybody the family has requested, but the problem is, she is still considered a missing person and even if she wasn't and they found a body, they still have not arrested anybody, which leaves everyone still not having been ruled out as a suspect. Therefore, it would not be in their best interest to disclose any information even if it were available. IIRC there was a big YAHOO, case where the parents of a dead soldier wanted to read the emails and they would not disclose it until the court decided it because of privacy issues. I do believe it does have to be court ordered and as far as I know without them even having figured out if she is alive or dead, I can't imagine they have requested phone records/tower records, etc. at this point. It almost sounds as if it is false information put out. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling about that information. :shrug:

luvmy2labpups

04-21-2006, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by MATTHEWsevenone
LUVMY2LABPUPPIES --

Dr. Godwin was a police officer in NC and he left that job, did some specialized training/schooling here and abroad and now is a specialized criminologist. His background is not psychology, though I certainly can see how you might be confused in this case!

I have a question:

the cellphone record question regarding MH --

We have been back and forth whether Dr. Godwin DID get the court order he claimed at one time he was attempting to secure.

We have been back and forth about whether MH and his attorney, IF INNOCENT, might not just GIVE the stuff to Dr. Godwin to move stuff along.

Here ar my questions:

MH supposedly was with SF (a LOCAL LE) during some of the open timeline. He was with DNR officer too. He is according the FSBIII a candidate for hiring by any LE force because he passed some POST qualifications and he is a past LE officer who might still belong to a faternal order of police right or have continued to maintain an LE classification, right? THere is some reason why he is allowed to ride along with LE, right?

Does GA have any ethic standards that would require MH to give over to the GBI or whoever is in charge of this investigation his cellphone records? If he carried his cellphone with him and either SF or the DNR officer signed off that MH had a cellphone at such and such a time, would there be a way for the Investigators to secure those records because of an ethical duty? Would the very alibis being used be MH have opened the door for cellphone records to be secured.

ANd for that matter -- isn't it common practice for LE to get search warrants for phone records when a person goes missing? ANd if there is a phone call from/to Tara by MH then couldn't the LE just do a warrant to get his too?

Just asking.
Hi Matthew7/1, I simply find it hard to believe he could get a court order for anything regarding this case. What would he do, go to a court house..Hi, I am an investigator, can you give me a subpoena signed by the judge to get cell phone records for someone I suspect is responsible for a death. Judge...who are you? investigator...employed by? I volunteered to help the family..yeah ok sure right. Doesn't seem reasonable. I highly doubt MH or his attorney would give, authorize, permit or otherwise anything to be given to him. Really, Dr. Godwin holds zero standing in this case other then someone who offered to help the family. It would be the same thing as you going to request records because you want to help. Do you think it likely that the court will give you access to any records? You know what I mean? MH riding along with LE would not be unusual at all. I don't know about your town but in several states any citizen is allowed to go on a ride along with the pd. You have to stay in the car when there is a call so that you are not put in harms way, but that in itself is not unusual at all.

BFD - v2.0

04-21-2006, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by MATTHEWsevenone

BFD - Hold it! I know MH owes no one anything - he can be wrapped in the flag and have an invisible CONSTITUTIONAL ARMOUR on for all I can -- and I happen to think him innocent at this point---

From the perspective of many though, his actions seem suspicious - and very odd considering he was once one of the GOOD GUYS in LE for the town.

Come on BFD - you know that in a missing person case the boyfriend, dad, husband are the first to literally walk through the fire -- Marc KLAAS ring any bells! -- it is not so much a constitutional argument in play as the normal way most investigations work when someone goes missing. They start ruling out this one and that one and expand and contract the circle of POI as the investigation continues.

And my post was about HOW LE could/would secure his records?

If there are no news agencies down there checking court filings to see if and when anyone asks for them. Under what circumstances could LE get them. It was DEDUCTIVE reasoning on my part - not inductive.

Come on isn't there a little room ESPECIALLY IN THIS CASE for me too?

LOL

You know there's room.

From everything I've seen Marcus is completely cooperating with the PROPER authorities. He doesn't owe Anita or Dr. Godwin anything at all.

Before Dr. Godwin was every brought into the case Marcus was being shredded on television shows. (I've gone back and read the transcipts the last few days)

Why in the world would Marcus want to "cooperate" with them in any manner? I'm sorry but it makes no sense to me. He has done the right thing with the right people from all accounts I've read.

BFD - v2.0

04-21-2006, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

Oy yah...this case is a real doozy. I just don't know what to think.

I lost track of this case and had to read up on it last night.

I'm just as confused as ever. I have no clue.

I think BFD should go down there and solve it for us. :)

LOL

Yeah. Right. No one's going to solve it from a message board. Might be able to generate good ideas and questions; but it's going to take shoe leather to solve this case.

If she's still missing after May, I'll head down to Ocilla and Hawkinsville. Deal?

BFD - v2.0

04-21-2006, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Atok
It's very nice and QUITE A RELIEF to see regulars from the other sections of CTV enter the fray on this case. Bring all the sharp minds here!

All of you are incredibly welcome to dig in and try to help, there is plenty of room, plenty of controversy and very few nails or brass tacks with which to hold one thought together with another.

I've seen excellent questions brought up, still no answers though. I know you regulars are going to find this case very IRregular.

Proceedure/theory/clues and everything... all in a sea of fog.

But your experience will help alot. Thank you for jumping in, even if it's a steep learning curve, thank you.

There is another poster (that I wasn't very friendly with) by the name of MissingCroton.

I'm not sure if they still post or if they have a different nickname now. But if you want some fine detailed analysis; look him/her up. (I would try, but they probably have me on ignore. LOL)

luvmy2labpups

04-21-2006, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by MATTHEWsevenone
luvmy2labpups -

I agree. I agree. I agree. I can't fathom how he goes to the courthouse for anything.

Now there are many cases where the LE invites experts to help - but the disconnect for me is how vocal Dr. Godwin is.

IF he is working WITH LE, are they putting him out there for some reason. Honestly, I have never quite seen him this OUT THERE!

I am so glad yo brought up the ride along = I have been doing some research about this and most all municipalities require hold harmless or some sort of release to be signed BEFORE THE EVENT OCCURS, some even require the OK by the CHIEF, CITY MANAGER, or INSURER before it is allowed. They don't want a crazy riding with the police.

So from where I am sitting there should be some sort of paper trail for that alibi - not just verbal stuff. But so far the timeline for everyone is so cloak and dagger we don't know who was where and went where when and in what??

We still have a few posters determined to turn a FORD into a CHEVY! It is wild.

:seeya:

IMO

:

It was stated yesterday that he volunteered to help the family, he was not retained by LE, so I don't think he is being put out there by LE. They have enough of their own to help, they would not need an outsider in their view to come in and take over, to run their investigation amok. I don't know about the paperwork required to go on a ride along/ if there is any would it be retained after the ride a long occurred? Maybe/maybe not. I see what you mean about turning a FORD into a CHEVY. LOL

luvmy2labpups

04-21-2006, 05:22 PM

BFD - v2.0

04-21-2006, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by MATTHEWsevenone

But BFD - you didn't answer my questions -- what about the possibility that his records were already in the hands of LE because of an ethical requirement? Or something to do with the ridealongs?

I can't find a statute but that POST stuff is so convoluted to me I haven't been able to make heads nor tails out of it.

Really hoped to add a simple explanation for the records to be in the hands of LE.

ANd if Dr. Godwin is working with LE,

remember SPECIAL AGENT ROTHWELL said they have LOTS OF RESOURCES -- could one be Dr. Godwin?

For me it is possible, isn't it? And wouldn't that explain the odd news accounts of late? Or have I been watching too many old movies?

:D

First: Turn the TV off. ;)

Private citizens can be used as a resource in an investigation. It happens all of the time. But I don't get that feeling in this case. Too many inconsistent statements. Seems more like an amateur attempt at trying to scare someone. The GBI wouldn't use those methods (through a private citizen) in my opinion.

It would be much scarier if the GBI released a statement saying they got more information and that an arrest could be forthcoming. That would have some meat to it and most likely scare the real perp quite a bit.

The only way I can see LE getting Harper's cell phone records is if they had reason not to believe his alibi witnesses and taking into account how cooperative he's been.

Personally speaking, I would have gotten Tara's cell phone records and tracked her movements in the month prior to her missing. In my opinion that would be more telling than anything else.

But at this time, with what is known, I just see no reason why they would want anyone else's cell phone records. They have to justify this to a judge in some manner. I don't exactly know what the argument would be to get it approved.

tiredofthis01

04-21-2006, 05:33 PM

I am from one of these south GA hick towns... And yes there is a document to sign to release the department of liability... And everyone is SUPPOSE to fill one out before riding... However, I know in my experience that is not alway the case.. I for one have been on several ride alongs for the night and did not fill the paper out... I .. well I am a "close" to one of the patrolmen... So is there an form yes.... Is it enforced.. not all the time at least not where I am from... For instance they know me I have filled out one in the very beginning years ago... Not every time so that could be the case... They no him.. for god sake he use to be one of them... so probably not enforced would be my opinon.. Anyway... hope that help some

Atok

04-21-2006, 05:35 PM

* Ooops posted at same time as Tired...Thanks for input *

Someone from Ocilla LE would have to say about rules/regulations on ride alongs, but when this came up earlier I read that the town is such a small "Mayberry" like place, everyone knows everyone and there was no second thinking about and no rules requiring MH to sign anything/waiver or SF to state in his records he even HAD a ride along.

There wasn't even a mileage chart like record SF had to keep, showing his route and/or stops!!!
Is it possible to get a budget passed for an office without basic documentation of travel or what one did or saw on their shift??

Is it really that unregulated down there?

Hard for me to believe that can be true, it IS 2006, everywhere, even Ocilla.

But when I questioned further I got silence.

Bueler? Bueler?