Baron and Dr Godwin Agreed

[Babes]

And both Godwin and Baron believe that the killer returned, not once but twice to Tara's house, first to clean up after the struggle, and then again, the following day, to make double-check his efforts.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0306/2301_new_tara_search2.html

[Babes]

Thanks Sassy for this:

Sassy
Member

Registered: Nov 2005
Location:
Posts: 209
CNN.News

-- It’s been five months to the day since Tara Faye Grinstead disappeared; an agonizing five months with little evidence and fewer clues. Now, with the help of psychic profiler Carla Baron, Tara’s family may be getting some much needed answers, but not the answers they’re looking for. Baron says there’s no doubt in her mind that Grinstead is dead and says it was someone close to her that committed the crime. Baron says Grinstead left her house willingly with her killer and he committed the act just hours later, that very night. Baron says her killer had help, and is confident both will be prosecuted when Grinstead’s body is recovered. The family, meanwhile, will continue search efforts in nearby woods again this weekend.

[concernedperson]

Please reread the article popcorn. It says that it is believed the killer returned twice, once to clean up and then again the next day.

I believe the two witnesses were the pet owner and HD.

[benhill29]

I read it that same way too Popcorn. Once to clean up afterwards and then again the next day....twice.
I was sitting here waiting for affirmation that I had read that corrcectly.
TY Concerned.

[Canadian Bum]

Babes, i saw the Drs name here, wasnt sure where to post this. March 30, Montel will have as guests, Anita and Larry Gattis , along with Dr Godwin.

[jela72]

Here's the critical part of Dr. Godwin's most recent summary:

According to Godwin's time line, Tara was attacked and abducted between 11:05pm Saturday night and 5am Sunday morning. The perpetrator returned to Tara's house sometime Monday morning after 12:15 and dropped the latex glove. This suggests that the perpetrator was very comfortable with being in the area and his vehicle would not stand out if it was at Tara's house.

Does anyone see how his mind may be working? There may be a clue there....

[IBC]

Originally posted by jela72 Here's the critical part of Dr. Godwin's most recent summary:

According to Godwin's time line, Tara was attacked and abducted between 11:05pm Saturday night and 5am Sunday morning. The perpetrator returned to Tara's house sometime Monday morning after 12:15 and dropped the latex glove. This suggests that the perpetrator was very comfortable with being in the area and his vehicle would not stand out if it was at Tara's house.

The perpetrator, of course, did not have to have a car if he returned nor would he have necessarily parked a car at her house.

[Saunterer]

Originally posted by jela72
Here's the critical part of Dr. Godwin's most recent summary:

According to Godwin's time line, Tara was attacked and abducted between 11:05pm Saturday night and 5am Sunday morning. The perpetrator returned to Tara's house sometime Monday morning after 12:15 and dropped the latex glove. This suggests that the perpetrator was very comfortable with being in the area and his vehicle would not stand out if it was at Tara's house.

Does anyone see how his mind may be working? There may be a clue there.... MOO - This is an example of what I said before. If one wants to analyze Dr. Godwin's statements, one should consider them in total and not just take snippets which seem to support a particular scenario or theory, discarding the rest. You believe HD is connected to Tara's disappearance. That's perfectly fine. I can believe that HD's car would not stand out at Tara's house. But considering the rest of Dr. G's statement, doesn't it seem that he absolves HD? Or do you think this was just cleverly worded to conceal a suspicion?

I just hope for Tara's sake that Dr G is as good as his web site touts (he is not without detractors in his profession). But the only thing I have seen from him thus far in this case is some very interesting psychological tactics. In the end I hope they were worth aggravating an already tense situation in and around Ocilla (speaking about the good people, not the bad) and burning some of his bridges to LE. Time will tell I guess ... maybe.

More on topic, I think we will have to wait until summer to know what all Carla Baron (and her team mates) might have said. That is ... if the show airs at all. Hopefully the mystery of Tara's disappearance will have been solved before then. Prayers for Tara.

[jela72]

IBC & Saunterer: thanks for responses. Please note - my main (personal) 'suspicion' with HD is that I happen to think he was seeing Tara romatically. I may have alluded to 'all things possible' because that's where we STILL are: all things ARE possible. Like it or lump it - until a trial, all things are possible and that's what I think and will always think...

Let's be honest:

This story makes for the PERFECT Agatha Christie novel: one missing (presumed endangered) beautiful, single, popular, God-respecting, thoughtful, kind, pageant-winning female disappears.

There are a number of males in her personal life - and these range from family members to long-time ex-beaus to neighbours. Throw in a couple of irrelevant yet harmless dates - and you have a plethora of possibilities.

Narrow those down - and then listen to what the rumour-mongers have been saying, let alone the press. Atok vividly captured the most salient of all of these in his post on the POLL thread. A noteworthy post, I (and many others) felt.

I'll tell you what strums my guitar: everytime anyone posts ANYTHING that might indicate a stronger relationship with Tara and HD - then Lordie-be: heaven and earth erupts in this forum. Tickling to some - treacherous to others. The responses tell more than the crime does, sometimes.

BUT... apropos the above snipped excerpt, let's be reminded of the info that followed this release: And that is Dr G believes the PERPETRATOR RETURNED TWICE. And once was AFTER 12;15.

Where everyone is losing focus is the RE-HASHING of Dr G's comments. Those of us not 'in the know' have ONLY got these excerpts to go on. Therefore, few here see 'us' that are not local as hostile. We're not... we have very little else, actually...

Dr G believes the perp was there TWICE. OK? So ... did Dr G state what time and what day he believed the perp was FIRST there? No - that's up for speculation but we understand Tara was on the phone to friends around midnight, Sat into Sunday.

We're also led to understand that [/B]one[/B] of those 2 visits by the perp was *after* 12:15, Sun-into-Monday am. And it was during that visit, that the perp accidentally dropped the latex glove - or so it's assumed by Dr G.

That's what made me consider the clothes-on-hangers theory: (that the perp returned to stage a runaway and was somehow spooked).

But - if the perp was there twice and returned (on one of those 2 occasions at least) AFTER 12:15 Sunday-into-Monday morning, who do we DEFINITELY know was there at least ONCE ... before that time? We know HD was there (according to Dr G) at circa 12:15 that morning.

He states that, from 11:05 Saturday night - the perp returned TWICE before 5 am Sunday morning.

BEAR IN MIND WE KNOW MH's TESTIMONY UNTIL 5 SUNDAY MORNING... Do we have remaining details of MH's story/alibi for rest of Sunday into Monday?

So: We also now know HD was there ONCE. That was the 12:15 Sun-into-on am - and the call to Faye (records prove). But WHO would have, or could have, returned to either execute or complete an unfinished crime *after* that - and before daylight Monday?

As per atok's thread, the possible men in Tara's close-life are:

MH
HD
ML
SF
AV
JP
LG

Who would and could have gone there TWICE? And... WHY? To semi-stage a possible 'flight' situation with tara? And IF that was the reason - it was MEANT to indicate that T would never be found.

IF this is a homicide, then we have to look at what possibilities exist to ensure a person/body would never be found in, near, or around Ocilla.

Of course, if DR. G is wrong with his comments, then this post is garbage - for all I have to go on is Dr G's notes to date...

Heh ... at least I can do all this at night and not get fired, lol... The TV's been turned OFF this week. And hubby's dozing merrily. :)

[jela72]

When did HD put his card on Tara's door?

During the night Sat into Sun? No.

During the night Sun into Mon?

Or daytime Monday?

[Saunterer]

MOO - Strumming your guitar while your hubby's dozing merrily! Thanks for my fantasy, mental picture of the day!! LOL

Anyway, I was referring to Dr. G's alleged statement (CL article, 3/20) that the glove had to have been dropped after 12:15 "because that was when Tara's old friend, Heath ****s ... had come by to check in on Tara, and had telephoned her mother when she didn't answer the door." Doesn't this statement seem like Dr. G has ruled HD out? Or was it cleverly worded to disguise a suspicion about HD?

Also, we don't have any "testimony" or even an account from MH for his whereabouts that night. As I (and others) have pointed out, we only have MH's lawyer's account, and that was qualified with statements like "I think it was", etc. ... so much so that we know nothing with certainty about MH's whereabouts (a general sequence of places perhaps, but no definite times). I'm sure LE has MH's statement. We do not.

Just strumming your guitar jela! OMG, I love that!! Actually, I have not ruled anyone in or out, including a random act by a stranger (how could I from where I sit and with the pitiful amount of information available). And, because I am detached from the actual facts surrounding Tara, Ocilla and Irwin County, I can still even hope that she could yet be among us.

Prayers for Tara.

[jela72]

er. Whoooops - you caught me just before deciding to hop off to bed, lol. Yeah ... strumming away, lol.

You repeated my questions/thoughts exactly:

1. WHY Did Dr. G feel it 'had' to be 2 visits, and at least ONE of those visits was after 12:15 Sun-into-Mon?

Answer: B/cos HD claimed it was not there when he pulled up. So, it HAD to be at least after 12:15, unless HD was lying.

Ans.1: Due to the non-response of T at her door from HD, we understand that the 'crime' must have taken place before his 'arrival' - and he's presumed unaware of any misgiving.

A.2: therefore, in order for that glove to appear, the PERP had to have returned twice. Unless, again, HD was either unaware a glove was there or was lying. So - I believe this testimony caused serious scrutiny to phone records - and - to be EXACT, Dr. G. requisitioned tower records to be absolutely sure.

2. Ditto (i.e.: Exactly) again! What is MH's full weekend alibi?

Answer.1: We have only MH's lawyer to officially state what MH was doing Sat into Sunday. Agreed, he was side-stepping the confirmations left right and center. BUT .... has anyone asked about, or investigated exactly what MH was doing after that? Sunday into Monday when (it appears) the latex glove was found?

A.2: Dr G states 2 known witnesses were there who did NOT see the glove. I believe these were: Dog-owner and Mr P. Why? 'Cos Mr. P found it strange that he 'had not noticed it before'.

A.3: To notice it 'before' meant he has to have walked past at least once. that confirms 2 witnesses were there who did not see the glove.

A.4: Remember: at this stage of the game, HD's recce (trip) to T's house had not been revealed. So (at that stage) HD could not have been the 2nd witness. It wasn't known then he was outside and relentlessy calling Tara and eventually called her mom before driving away and telling no-one (repeat: by then, anyway)

------

But then, that's only how I read things from across the globe, lol.

Back to the Beatles and gentle sstrumming my guitar, lol.

The above is my own interpretation - right or (probably) wrong, lol.

[jela72]

Saunterer: Sorry, let me eclipse, if I can...

The perp (clearly) accosted Tara after midnight Sat into Sunday.

He had to have returned before 5 am Monday - because of the latex glove being discovered.

The latex glove was not there during the day, Sunday because the owner of the dog that Tara was pet-sitting didn't see it. Mr P didn't see it. Dr G states 2 'confirmed' witnesses did NOT see the latex glove that day.

HD pulls up at 12:15 Sun into Mon. He claims the glove was not there.

Mr. P doscovers the glove Monday - and says "Strange - I hadn't noticed it before?"

So - it had to have been dropped after HD's CALL at 12:15. Dr. G does not state it was AFTER HD left. He simply puts the time-line and testimony together - and leaves the rest open for further investigation.

Therefore, the perp went back (if HD's eventual testimony is true) after the CALL was made.

Dr. G. does NOT say "it wasn't 12:15 when the glove was dropped". He states it had to have been *after* that ... as the perp returned A SECOND TIME.

Again - simply my interpretation - and g'night from me, folks. LOL :)

[Mindis]

Originally posted by Canadian Bum
Babes, i saw the Drs name here, wasnt sure where to post this. March 30, Montel will have as guests, Anita and Larry Gattis , along with Dr Godwin.

Yes, I posted that in another thread as well.. We may not find anything new but.... maybe someone out there saw something and will be watching Montel.. Tara hasn't been in the media (worldwide) is quite some time.. This show could really help!

Prayers for Tara.. :rose:

[One2Snoop]

Bump :rose: