Highly Illegal early b-day present

[LadyLibertea]

:confused: I still find the highly illegal statement odd.

Is the Kevin who made the reference to Taylor's statement the same Kevin as the Kevin rumored to be 1 of the 3 skaters that were with Taylor the night she disappeared? Did ya'll follow that horrible sentence?

I remember doing and saying things as a teenager to get attention or to appear off the chain, xtreme wild. I once put cold medicine in a clear container to make it look like coke, I left it in my car, and asked an employee to go to my car to get something for me. When he came back I was acting nervous and I questioned him about what he saw in my car. He said nothing. Is Taylor an only child? I am, and as an adult I can see that I was really doing crazy stuff because I wanted someone to care about me and say stop being so wild, you are beautiful, brilliant, etc.

So with all that said, if Taylor was sober and she made the statement Kevin reported, she may have just been trying to get Kevin to say "Taylor what are you going to do that is highly illegal? Do not do anything stupid. Taylor, you are too beautiful and brilliant to fu** up"!

I am doubting the idea that Taylor would agree to take kiddie porn pics for Ben at night in Mathews. When people started suggesting the kiddie porn picture theory I took my digital camera outside and tested it. The night was very dark, in the country, couple of street lights, no business in my area. The pictures close up of people were okay, my husband is not white, a lighter person would have been easier to see. The shots into emptiness were worthless, there had to be a solid structure in the background, or the person had to be close. Maybe if they were in one of the houses in Mathews there would be more flash.
:eek: UUURK.... Hit the brakes, and why would Taylor go all the way to Matthew's to do that when she had an apt. Ben had an apt. stocked with photo props, and everyone they knew had an apt. and hotels are cheap! It does not sound right, but I could be wrong.

[LADY2NOW]

Even if Taylor did say she was going to do something "highly illegal" as an early 18th B-day present, and she had something specific in mind, she certainly had no plans to do "it" (whatever "it" was) the night she disappeared. I also think that, given what we know about her personality and character, "it" probably was going to be something relatively benign (in the big scheme of things), albeit "illegal"--something like maybe getting a "doctored" drivers' license in order to: get a tattoo or body piercing (it's illegal in VA for someone to tattoo or perform body piercing on persons under age 18 unless done in the presence of the minor's parent or guardian); gain entry to clubs, etc. that card-at-the-door; buy beer....

[protectkidz]

Lady:

This is just my crazy mind at work, but there were two things I thought of when the "highly illegal" statement was released. Stealing license plates, or (JMO) burning down the barn of Ben's ex?

[LADY2NOW]

protectkidz--for some reason, just a gut feeling, I don't see Taylor doing anything really destructive. From everything I've read, she didn't seem to be that type of person. JMO. According to Kevin, she described the "highly illegal" thing as being an early birthday present, ie., something for herself. In Huff's interviews with BF's ex, Erin described Taylor as a nice person and I haven't gotten the feeling that Taylor felt any animosity towards Erin (although I'm sure that, if BF had the chance, he would have tried to nurture such feelings on Taylor's part--and anyone else's--for Erin).

[protectkidz]

I agree that Ben would have had to nurture adverse feelings for Erin in order for Taylor to take his side.

Not thinking that Taylor would've been destructive in a mean way - I kind of thought that Ben would've had to talk her into it, and she would've thought that it would be a harmless thing, without anyone getting hurt.

I guess I just can't think of anything else that she would consider "highly illegal", that would include Ben. Of course, she didn't tell Kevin that this thing she was going to do would include Ben.

The fake ID to get a tattoo is actually the best conclusion I have heard. I know that when I was 17, getting a fake ID would have seemed incredibly risky to me. And if I was 17, a tattoo would be an excellent 18th bday present.

[LADY2NOW]

That's just it--we don't know whether the "highly illegal" thing involved BF at all (we just seem to want to jump to that conclusion because we've learned so much about BF's criminal past). By all accounts (tho not BF's), Taylor had cooled toward BF though she contended that they were still friends. When I was 17, I couldn't wait to be 18 because the legal drinking age was then 18. Between ages 18-21, the legal age for hard liquor was raised to 21. The year I turned 21, the legal age for all alcoholic beverages was raised to 21. I felt lucky! We've heard that Taylor didn't do drugs or drink alcohol. But maybe she'd decided it was time to test the waters, so to speak, and she would just like to have been able to order a beer when out with friends. Also, self-expression is such a big thing nowadays with young people--yeah, a "tasteful" tattoo or a navel ring might have been on Taylor's mind as a fitting early b-day present. She'd have needed to lie about her age or have a fake ID to get either before her 18th b-day.

[protectkidz]

I'm pretty sure that the reason I and others have jumped to the conclusion that Taylor may be doing the "highly illegal" thing with Ben is because the statement came out when a bunch of other info re: her relationship with Ben did. Also, maybe it's lumped in people's minds with Ben because he seems like a natural accomplice for something illegal. Also, I had thought that Taylor told this to Kevin on the night she went missing.

Well, I guess we'll find out eventually what it was she was thinking about.

(when I was 17 I didn't have a hope of passing for 21, even with the best made fake ID!!!! lol)

[LADY2NOW]

protectkidz:

Did you see Marilyn B's article?
http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/1005/2501_taylor_behl_death_what_is_known.html

Her roommate's account is what makes me think that Taylor was beginning to distance herself a bit from BF. If she'd begun to find him a bit creepy and knew how vengeful he could be (a la Erin), she might have decided to tread a bit carefully where he was concerned (by stating to others that they were "still friends", for instance. Why say anything nasty about someone you're figuring out is a bit loony and invite some of the same vitriolic hatred--and maybe violence--on yourself?). I've often wondered when she found out how old he really is. Was it before or after their sexual encounter in April? Was his age what made her "curious" to begin with, or was she repulsed later when she found out. Who knows?

Re Kevin and when Taylor made the statement about the "highly illegal" thing. For some reason, I thought she said that to him a couple of nights before she went missing, when she was skateboarding with him, but before she returned to Vienna to visit her family for the holiday weekend. But I could be wrong.

[protectkidz]

Lady:

I totally agree about Taylor distancing herself from him - I've been in that situation before and understand that survival instincts tell you to tread lightly so as not to let loose the beast.

Has it been confirmed that there was indeed a sexual experience? I know her mom stated that there was at one time. I always understood those journal postings (blah, blah girl who climbed into my bunk at 407...well, i was curious...i still am), to possibly imply that she was curious about what it would feel like to experience the "bondage bed", not that she necessarily had sex with him. (yuck)

I have to confess that I haven't read everything re: the case - especially since her funeral. I needed to back away a bit, but feel now that I'm ready to give this more thought.

I'll go over to the Crime Library and read the roommate's statement now.

Thanks for the link.

[protectkidz]

Okay - I see from Crime Library that it is confrimed that they had at least one sexual encounter.

:(

[LADY2NOW]

Originally posted by protectkidz
Okay - I see from Crime Library that it is confrimed that they had at least one sexual encounter.

:(

Taylor probably decided that "once" was enough! Before entries in their LJ's were removed, I don't remember seeing anything in them that would indicate they had sex after that one time in April. Let's not forget that, when she arrived at VCU, she'd met "Jake", a fellow student, and had hopes that something would come of that. If she still had hopes after meeting him for dinner at the Village Cafe, why mess it up by going to BF for some "sexual reassurance"?

[protectkidz]

Exactly.

I totally agree that if she did indeed have sex with Ben the night of her death, it was not consensual.

[SpikeyMikey]

I posted this lastnight in a dif thread but it seems to fit in this one pretty well also:

I still don’t put much faith in the “highly illegal” comment and her death having anything to do with each other. From what I remember, she had basically called it a night and went back to her dorm. That tells me that the act wasn’t planned for that night at all.

Do plans change? Of course. But for it to be birthday plans, I’d imagine whatever it was she was going to do would be much closer to the actual birthday.

During my “highly illegal” days while skateboarding - I would associate that comment more so with breaking into a place and skating or just skating in a public place that you aren’t suppose to be at.

Sometimes its easy to let your mind drift and think of something HUGE as the illegal act but in all honesty it could be something very simple that she just got hyper over the thought of. All of us have done that at one point or another.

I just don’t think that you associate much of anything sexual as "highly illegal" when you are underage yourself.

Too me its something very simple that got her very hyper. *shrugs*

[memap1965]

I agree Mikey. I don't think the "highly illegal" thing was anything too highly illegal, really. At the age of 17, one tends to dramatize a lot of things that older people probably wouldn't even view as illegal. JMO.

[LADY2NOW]

spikeymikey and memap1965:

My point exactly. I doubt whether her comment and her death had anything to do with each other. If I keeled over tomorrow, from natural causes or not, would everything I'd said in the previous 48 hours lead to a conclusion about my death? I doubt it... Also, young people do tend to dramatise things. She wasn't a hardened criminal or even a jaded teen, so I'm thinking that whatever she was thinking of doing probably wouldn't have made it onto the 6:00 p.m. news.

[Hey Paula]

I agree with you, as I don't believe the "highly illegal" statement had anything to do with sex, especially since 18 is the age of consent.

If Taylor was adventurous, that statement might have applied to her wanting to "car surf", an illegal and dangerous way to skateboard, while being towed by a vehicle.

IMO

[PSN]

when I think about something "Highly Illegal". I think of Cocane...Does Jesse know more than he's saying ? But then again I could be wrong because I dont know all the details. But I know the dog's traced a secent from Taylor's car to his house and they busted him with cocane. And thats "Highly Illegal".

Just a thought...

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by PSN
when I think about something "Highly Illegal". I think of Cocane...Does Jesse know more than he's saying ? But then again I could be wrong because I dont know all the details. But I know the dog's traced a secent from Taylor's car to his house and they busted him with cocane. And thats "Highly Illegal".

Just a thought...

Those who knew Taylor have stated that she didn't take drugs or abuse alcohol. Her only vice, it is said, was smoking cigarettes.

[PSN]

It was just a thought. Like I said I dont know all the details, just putting bits and pieces together. I'm sure when the rest of the test come back, it will put a end to the guessing. But I dont believe the "Highly Illegal" thing had anyhing to do with sex. Or like alot of others has said ( if she even said she was going to do something highly illegal )

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by PSN
It was just a thought. Like I said I dont know all the details, just putting bits and pieces together. I'm sure when the rest of the test come back, it will put a end to the guessing. But I dont believe the "Highly Illegal" thing had anyhing to do with sex. Or like alot of others has said ( if she even said she was going to do something highly illegal )

I'm beginning to seriously doubt Taylor ever said she was going to do something "highly illegal". Perhaps Kevin said thinking it would help Ben Fawley.

IMO

[BFD - v2.0]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


I'm beginning to seriously doubt Taylor ever said she was going to do something "highly illegal". Perhaps Kevin said thinking it would help Ben Fawley.

IMO

Help Ben?

He stated this prior to Taylor's body being found.

There has been no evidence presented by anyone to show Kevin had ever met Ben prior to Ben coming to his place of work after Taylor went missing.

Do you seriously believe this guy just straight out lied to Marilyn to help a guy out that he didn't even know? And furthermore, help him out how?

I can't believe if something could possibly raise doubt regarding Ben's story, the people and/or evidence must be tainted or lying or something.

Why is it so difficult for some people to believe that she did indeed say that?

Nobody on this forum "knows" Taylor.

In fact, that's one thing Mike Cino has constantly griped about on his journal. How people are constantly saying what Taylor would or wouldn't do, or what Taylor would or wouldn't want. And none of those people knew her or knew what kind of thought processes went through her mind.

Sometimes it is what it is.

[LADY2NOW]

Originally posted by LADY2NOW
protectkidz:
...
Re Kevin and when Taylor made the statement about the "highly illegal" thing. For some reason, I thought she said that to him a couple of nights before she went missing, when she was skateboarding with him, but before she returned to Vienna to visit her family for the holiday weekend. But I could be wrong.

Just went back and re-read Marilyn B's article where she interviewed Kevin. According to Kevin, Taylor told him about the "highly illegal" thing the night she disappeared. I wonder if it's something she thought of between the time she went skateboarding with Kevin and unnamed friend on 9/03 and when she returned from Vienna.

[protectkidz]

I think that's why I have it in my mind that she was going to do it with Ben. From what I remember, she spent some time with Ben after she got back from Vienna, but before she went to dinner (where I thought she had made that statement to Kevin).

I was trying to figure out how Ben could have gotten her to go to Mathews - that was how I tied the "highly illegal" thing to Ben and his vendetta against Erin.

I don't know - the tattoo theory sounds better now.

[vedder]

" From what I remember, she spent some time with Ben after she got back from Vienna, but before she went to dinner"

NO, NO...This is what Benny-boy SAID had happened...HIS say-so,no proof of this whatsoever....

He wants us to believe that as soon as she got back to school she ...
1.Ran strait back to his place to have sex
2.Than went to help Jake with his art project
3.Than went to dinner with him
4.Than ran back to his place again for MORE sex...

Come on...If this isn't TOTAL BS I dont know what is...

And remember HE said he walked her back at 9.30....HE DID NOT...Jake was the one who walked her back...

This story is STILL breaking my heart...

[protectkidz]

I guess at this time it's all about separating fact from fiction.

I agree, and also have a broken heart...

[poplife]

In my mind, it could have been made in jest as well. My girlfriends and I will joke using the word "illegal" if we are going to do something we shouldn't. I have a friend that says it when she is going to visit her ex or another that has said it when she's going to call a guy that dissed her. It's just an expression and I can see Taylor using it that way. JMO>

[LADY2NOW]

Originally posted by poplife
In my mind, it could have been made in jest as well. My girlfriends and I will joke using the word "illegal" if we are going to do something we shouldn't. I have a friend that says it when she is going to visit her ex or another that has said it when she's going to call a guy that dissed her. It's just an expression and I can see Taylor using it that way. JMO>

Thanks for your take on the use of the word "illegal" among the younger crowd. I've never heard it used that way, but I'm getting on up there in years...

[PMcOuntry]

I'm starting to think the whole statement was made up by this Kevin guy.

If not, I would say maybe she did mean she was going to have nekkid pictures taken.

I don't think she went to Mathews county by consent.

I think Kevin was one of the skateboarders. Plus, she would have made that statement BEFORE returning to her dorm and finding her roomate/bf and saying she was going to leave them alone for a few hours, THEN she went missing. ie anything illegal she was going to do, would have been BEFORE she went back to her dorm.

[PMcOuntry]

Originally posted by poplife
In my mind, it could have been made in jest as well. My girlfriends and I will joke using the word "illegal" if we are going to do something we shouldn't. I have a friend that says it when she is going to visit her ex or another that has said it when she's going to call a guy that dissed her. It's just an expression and I can see Taylor using it that way. JMO>

Never knew that, thanks for that point! If that is the case, it could be any number of things that weren't "illegal". Heck, it could have been skateboarding in a "no skateboading" zone/park!?

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by BFD - v2.0


Help Ben?

He stated this prior to Taylor's body being found.

There has been no evidence presented by anyone to show Kevin had ever met Ben prior to Ben coming to his place of work after Taylor went missing.

Do you seriously believe this guy just straight out lied to Marilyn to help a guy out that he didn't even know? And furthermore, help him out how?

I can't believe if something could possibly raise doubt regarding Ben's story, the people and/or evidence must be tainted or lying or something.

Why is it so difficult for some people to believe that she did indeed say that?

Nobody on this forum "knows" Taylor.

In fact, that's one thing Mike Cino has constantly griped about on his journal. How people are constantly saying what Taylor would or wouldn't do, or what Taylor would or wouldn't want. And none of those people knew her or knew what kind of thought processes went through her mind.

Sometimes it is what it is.

I confess to being ignorant re the relationship between Kevin and BF. I read, in one of the posts on this board, that Kevin was BF's friend and thought the poster knew that for a fact. Also, I wasn't aware of when Kevin made that statement, i.e., prior to Taylor's body having been found.

Was Taylor very friendly with BF? That is the kind of disclosure (confessing to wanting to do something "highly illegal") one would make only to someone they were extremely close with, IMO.

I'd like to learn more about Kevin, and his relationship with Taylor. I have questions that I hope to learn the answers to such as"

Did Kevin ever date Taylor or ask her out?

How did Kevin meet Taylor?

Does Kevin have friends who are friendly with BF?

[EscamillosGirl]

Originally posted by PMcOuntry


Never knew that, thanks for that point! If that is the case, it could be any number of things that weren't "illegal". Heck, it could have been skateboarding in a "no skateboading" zone/park!?

What if...

say Taylor DID say she was going to do something "highly illegal"?

I noticed I said that on my blog the other day. What I did was, I bought and watched a Broadway show bootleg on DVD. Ooooohhhh. Going to hell for that, I am.
Anyway.

What if Taylor, say, got sick of being watched every time she went to get her car, and planned on disabling the video feed into Ben's apartment? That's something I would totally do, especially if this creepy guy I hit it with once wouldn't stop bugging me and going on about his ex and what a psycho she was.

And what if she got caught? Ben was outside, saw her... or inside and saw her. She tried to pass it off as a practical joke. He laughed with her, but inside the cold rage was already boiling, dry-ice-like, smoldering. He didn't like her any more, but he still wanted her. She needed to learn her lesson.

Okie doke, scared myself now... but it's a valid a theory as any other.

Lily

[BFD - v2.0]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


I confess to being ignorant re the relationship between Kevin and BF. I read, in one of the posts on this board, that Kevin was BF's friend and thought the poster knew that for a fact. Also, I wasn't aware of when Kevin made that statement, i.e., prior to Taylor's body having been found.

Was Taylor very friendly with BF? That is the kind of disclosure (confessing to wanting to do something "highly illegal") one would make only to someone they were extremely close with, IMO.

I'd like to learn more about Kevin, and his relationship with Taylor. I have questions that I hope to learn the answers to such as"

Did Kevin ever date Taylor or ask her out?

How did Kevin meet Taylor?

Does Kevin have friends who are friendly with BF?

Kevin told Marilyn that he went to the police to tell them about Taylor saying she was going to do something "highly illegal" after he found out she had gone missing.

He was being proactive in trying to help in whateve way he could.

So, the police (according to Kevin) were aware of the "highly illegal" comment almost from the onset of this case.

Yes, Ben knows a person named Keven. (Notice how it's spelled). I know a couple of people named Kevin myself. Even know a few people named Mike. Doesn't mean they're all the same person because they share the same name.

Sure, it's possible Kevin is lying to Marilyn. But why lie about something that could be disproven so easily? That wouldn't make sense in my opinion.

It is my understanding that Kevin didn't really know Taylor very well. If my memory serves me correctly, he said they hung out around 4 different times while skating.

I personally don't see her comment as being something she would only tell someone she was close with. Heck, they're kids. They're hanging out skating together and she was in a new circle of friends at school. No one really knows Taylor Behl well enough to know what type of language she would use in a particular situation or how open she was with people she barely knew. That is the unknown. We just don' t know the girl.

[LADY2NOW]

Originally posted by BFD - v2.0


Kevin told Marilyn that he went to the police to tell them about Taylor saying she was going to do something "highly illegal" after he found out she had gone missing.

He was being proactive in trying to help in whateve way he could.

So, the police (according to Kevin) were aware of the "highly illegal" comment almost from the onset of this case.

Yes, Ben knows a person named Keven. (Notice how it's spelled). I know a couple of people named Kevin myself. Even know a few people named Mike. Doesn't mean they're all the same person because they share the same name.

Sure, it's possible Kevin is lying to Marilyn. But why lie about something that could be disproven so easily? That wouldn't make sense in my opinion.

It is my understanding that Kevin didn't really know Taylor very well. If my memory serves me correctly, he said they hung out around 4 different times while skating.

I personally don't see her comment as being something she would only tell someone she was close with. Heck, they're kids. They're hanging out skating together and she was in a new circle of friends at school. No one really knows Taylor Behl well enough to know what type of language she would use in a particular situation or how open she was with people she barely knew. That is the unknown. We just don' t know the girl.

I agree--we don't know the girl and we don't know what type of language she would use in a particular situation. Was "illegal" really "illegal" or just slang for something else? We don't know. I'm beginning to think that her admission to Kevin (if she made it), is really irrelevant to her disappearce and death. I think, though, that BF, hearing of it, used the phrase to his advantage both before and after his "confession".

[BFD - v2.0]

Originally posted by LADY2NOW


I agree--we don't know the girl and we don't know what type of language she would use in a particular situation. Was "illegal" really "illegal" or just slang for something else? We don't know. I'm beginning to think that her admission to Kevin (if she made it), is really irrelevant to her disappearce and death. I think, though, that BF, hearing of it, used the phrase to his advantage both before and after his "confession".

The main thing that concerns me about the "highly illegal" statement really has nothing to do with the meaning behind it, or what it could possibly infer.

What concerns me is that from the given times, she was talking to Kevin when she was supposed to be with Jake.

Of course, we've never been given a clear timeline from the authorities, so we can only go by what's been reported second hand to the media.

Somewhere between meeting up with Jake to do the art project and going to dinner with Jake, she comes across Kevin and gives this cryptic statement.

Why?

Why wasn't she with Jake the whole time? Or was Jake there when the statement was made?

Could the "highly illegal" comment even be associated with the art project?

Was she really with Jake the whole time? (I have heard some people opine that maybe Jake was used as a cover for Taylor so she would be seen in a good light)

A lot of unanswered questions in regards to the timing of everything.

It also goes back to whatever was said when she went back to the dorm.

One account says she wanted to give the roommate privacy, so left.

The other account was she came home and said she'd be back in 3 hours. No matter how you slice it, if she gave the specific time frame "3 hours", it would indicate plans to do something specific. Typically if someone is leaving without plans, a simple, "I'll be back later" will suffice.

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by BFD - v2.0


Kevin told Marilyn that he went to the police to tell them about Taylor saying she was going to do something "highly illegal" after he found out she had gone missing.

He was being proactive in trying to help in whateve way he could.

So, the police (according to Kevin) were aware of the "highly illegal" comment almost from the onset of this case.

Yes, Ben knows a person named Keven. (Notice how it's spelled). I know a couple of people named Kevin myself. Even know a few people named Mike. Doesn't mean they're all the same person because they share the same name.

Sure, it's possible Kevin is lying to Marilyn. But why lie about something that could be disproven so easily? That wouldn't make sense in my opinion.

It is my understanding that Kevin didn't really know Taylor very well. If my memory serves me correctly, he said they hung out around 4 different times while skating.

I personally don't see her comment as being something she would only tell someone she was close with. Heck, they're kids. They're hanging out skating together and she was in a new circle of friends at school. No one really knows Taylor Behl well enough to know what type of language she would use in a particular situation or how open she was with people she barely knew. That is the unknown. We just don' t know the girl.

If Kevin is lying, how could it "be disproven so easily"? If Kevin is claiming Taylor said this to him, and she is now deceased, we have only his word for it.

[LADY2NOW]

Originally posted by BFD - v2.0


The main thing that concerns me about the "highly illegal" statement really has nothing to do with the meaning behind it, or what it could possibly infer.

What concerns me is that from the given times, she was talking to Kevin when she was supposed to be with Jake.

Of course, we've never been given a clear timeline from the authorities, so we can only go by what's been reported second hand to the media.

Somewhere between meeting up with Jake to do the art project and going to dinner with Jake, she comes across Kevin and gives this cryptic statement.

Why?

Why wasn't she with Jake the whole time? Or was Jake there when the statement was made?

Could the "highly illegal" comment even be associated with the art project?

Was she really with Jake the whole time? (I have heard some people opine that maybe Jake was used as a cover for Taylor so she would be seen in a good light)

A lot of unanswered questions in regards to the timing of everything.

It also goes back to whatever was said when she went back to the dorm.

One account says she wanted to give the roommate privacy, so left.

The other account was she came home and said she'd be back in 3 hours. No matter how you slice it, if she gave the specific time frame "3 hours", it would indicate plans to do something specific. Typically if someone is leaving without plans, a simple, "I'll be back later" will suffice.

BFD:

I've been reading Marilyn B's articles for Crime Library and it appears that, while she was at the Village Cafe with Jake she spoke with Kevin and told him about he "highly illegal" thing. So strange, unless it was something she came up with between the time she'd last seen Kevin, purportedly on the evening of 9/03 or 04 when she was skateboarding with him and her return to Richmond from Vienna around 6:45 p.m. on 9/05. Also, if the something "highly illegal" had anything to do with skateboarding, why not give Kevin, her new "skateboarding" acquaintance more info? If it had nothing to do with skateboarding, why mention it to him at all? Who knows what's going on in the mind of a 17-yr-old who's having dinner with a guy she likes but the guy is trying to break up with her? Also, I find it very interesting that, in early accounts of her disappearance, she was purported to have told her roommate she was going skateboarding (she didn't own a skateboard but early on BF said she came by his place to borrow a skateboard) and, in later accounts, the mention of skateboarding is left out....

[SpikeyMikey]

memap1965, LADY2NOW, hey paula -

Thanks for each of you taking the time to respond to my post.

memap1965 - memap1965, LADY2NOW, hey paula -

Thanks for each of you taking the time to respond to my post.

memap1965 – I agree with your comment of “At the age of 17, one tends to dramatize a lot of things that older people probably wouldn't even view as illegal.” To me... “highly illegal” could have just been a phrase she had started using to describe something really fun. And I’d like to add that it goes both ways when it comes to over dramatizing. Adults or “older people” tend to blow up circumstances that are looked at as petty to younger people.

LADY2NOW – I agree also. She wasn’t a big criminal by any means. Just your average college student. Did she ever do anything that she could have gotten in trouble for? Probably but nothing of significance. I still believe she was just hyper about the idea that had popped in her head and wanted to tell someone. That’s even if she really said it.

Hey Paula – I’m still not too up on the car surfing idea. Not saying that my friends and I were wild kids or anything but we did that many of times when I was in high school/college and while we knew it was illegal – we never thought much of it at all. Do you know what I mean? Its kind of like an “oh well” kind of thing.

[PMcOuntry]

Originally posted by BFD - v2.0


The main thing that concerns me about the "highly illegal" statement really has nothing to do with the meaning behind it, or what it could possibly infer.

What concerns me is that from the given times, she was talking to Kevin when she was supposed to be with Jake.

Of course, we've never been given a clear timeline from the authorities, so we can only go by what's been reported second hand to the media.

Somewhere between meeting up with Jake to do the art project and going to dinner with Jake, she comes across Kevin and gives this cryptic statement.

Why?

Why wasn't she with Jake the whole time? Or was Jake there when the statement was made?

Could the "highly illegal" comment even be associated with the art project?

Was she really with Jake the whole time? (I have heard some people opine that maybe Jake was used as a cover for Taylor so she would be seen in a good light)

A lot of unanswered questions in regards to the timing of everything.

It also goes back to whatever was said when she went back to the dorm.

One account says she wanted to give the roommate privacy, so left.

The other account was she came home and said she'd be back in 3 hours. No matter how you slice it, if she gave the specific time frame "3 hours", it would indicate plans to do something specific. Typically if someone is leaving without plans, a simple, "I'll be back later" will suffice.

I don't agree. Maybe her roomate said, come back in a "few" hours, and to me a "few" is 3 hours. Or, she didn't want to be out any later than1:30 a.m. bc she had classes or whatever, hence 3 hours. I think she was planning on going somehwere, she couldn't get into a bar at her age, not sure if there are any all night cafe's around there, in which case, I doubt she'd drive around for 3 hours, so who else does she know she could visit at 10:30 at night? The only person she really knows in Richmond is Ben, so why not go knock on his door and say hey, my roomate is getting it on w/her boyfriend and wants some space, can I hang out here for a few hours.

[poplife]

I think the one outstanding thing in this whole "be back in 3 hours" or whatever time frame she gave, and dependant on the cell calls she made while in her dorm room is- there is someone out there that thought they were going to meet up w/ Taylor that night when she left her dorm.

Who was it???

Or was she going to surprise someone?

I have to assume this info is being kept under wraps, b/c I believe she was going to meet someone.

Was it Benny-boy? We don't know yet.

[LADY2NOW]

Originally posted by poplife
I think the one outstanding thing in this whole "be back in 3 hours" or whatever time frame she gave, and dependant on the cell calls she made while in her dorm room is- there is someone out there that thought they were going to meet up w/ Taylor that night when she left her dorm.

Who was it???

Or was she going to surprise someone?

I have to assume this info is being kept under wraps, b/c I believe she was going to meet someone.

Was it Benny-boy? We don't know yet.

According to Crime Library's timeline (or in the article, "What we know", I forget which), Taylor made a call on her cell phone at 9:45 p.m. to a person who has already been questioned. Maybe she headed out to "surprise" Jake or maybe hook up with Kevin and buddies to see if any skateboarding was going on. She made the call at 9:45 (from the dorm room according to Crime Library's articles) but didn't leave the dorm room until around 10:20.

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by SpikeyMikey
memap1965, LADY2NOW, hey paula -

Thanks for each of you taking the time to respond to my post.

memap1965 - memap1965, LADY2NOW, hey paula -

Thanks for each of you taking the time to respond to my post.

memap1965 – I agree with your comment of “At the age of 17, one tends to dramatize a lot of things that older people probably wouldn't even view as illegal.” To me... “highly illegal” could have just been a phrase she had started using to describe something really fun. And I’d like to add that it goes both ways when it comes to over dramatizing. Adults or “older people” tend to blow up circumstances that are looked at as petty to younger people.

LADY2NOW – I agree also. She wasn’t a big criminal by any means. Just your average college student. Did she ever do anything that she could have gotten in trouble for? Probably but nothing of significance. I still believe she was just hyper about the idea that had popped in her head and wanted to tell someone. That’s even if she really said it.

Hey Paula – I’m still not too up on the car surfing idea. Not saying that my friends and I were wild kids or anything but we did that many of times when I was in high school/college and while we knew it was illegal – we never thought much of it at all. Do you know what I mean? Its kind of like an “oh well” kind of thing.

Hi Mikey!

I was talking about car surfing with the skateboard being towed by a vehicle. Besides being illegal, it is dangerous. I wonder if Taylor was an adventurous/daring girl?

[LADY2NOW]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


Hi Mikey!

I was talking about car surfing with the skateboard being towed by a vehicle. Besides being illegal, it is dangerous. I wonder if Taylor was an adventurous/daring girl?

I wonder, if this is what she was referring to, why she wouldn't have elaborated on this "highly illegal" thing to Kevin, her new skateboarding acquaintance. By all accounts, skateboarding was a new hobbie of Taylor's. Don't you think she would have at least said something like, "Hey, Kev, have you ever tried it? What's it like? Is it really dangerous?"

[PMcOuntry]

Originally posted by LADY2NOW


I wonder, if this is what she was referring to, why she wouldn't have elaborated on this "highly illegal" thing to Kevin, her new skateboarding acquaintance. By all accounts, skateboarding was a new hobbie of Taylor's. Don't you think she would have at least said something like, "Hey, Kev, have you ever tried it? What's it like? Is it really dangerous?"

Her mother described her as a loner, loved old books, etc. but here she was 17 and in college, away from home, she may have been trying things. I doubt we'll ever know.

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by LADY2NOW


I wonder, if this is what she was referring to, why she wouldn't have elaborated on this "highly illegal" thing to Kevin, her new skateboarding acquaintance. By all accounts, skateboarding was a new hobbie of Taylor's. Don't you think she would have at least said something like, "Hey, Kev, have you ever tried it? What's it like? Is it really dangerous?"

If Taylor's relationship with Kevin revolved solely around skateboarding, then it seems logical that statement, if indeed Taylor made it, revolved around skateboarding.

It also seems logical that if Taylor made that statement to Kevin, he would then ask her what she had in mind, unless of course, their conversation had already revolved around car surfing. In that case, he would have known what she was referring to.

IMO

[c_biscuit]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


If Taylor's relationship with Kevin revolved solely around skateboarding, then it seems logical that statement, if indeed Taylor made it, revolved around skateboarding.

It also seems logical that if Taylor made that statement to Kevin, he would then ask her what she had in mind, unless of course, their conversation had already revolved around car surfing. In that case, he would have known what she was referring to.

IMO

I don't think that just because he was mainly her skateboarding buddy means she would only talk about similar things with him. Girls tell people a lot of different things, especially if they are excited about something.

In my opinion, I think she only told him she was going to do something illegal and not what it was. That is telling enough but not too much - because she didn't know him well enough, and so he wouldn't tell her not to do it.

IF she were talking about car surfing, I think she would have discussed that with Kevin since he had might have tried it - and when he gave information about what she said, he would have included that.

[protectkidz]

Where did "car surfing" come into the mix? I haven't seen one thing about car surfing except for posts here. I think that "car surfing" probably should be discounted at this time. Good thought, but there is not one shred of evidence, or inference, that this is a past time among the skateboarders in Richmond. I doubt that the streets are set up to accomodate this "sport".

The "highly illegal" activity that Taylor allegedly spoke about to Kevin is just that - not confirmed. Oh, and, Kevin and Ben Fawley were NOT acquainted.

What else - Mikey, thanks for keeping this all in perspective, however difficult that may be.

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by protectkidz
Where did "car surfing" come into the mix? I haven't seen one thing about car surfing except for posts here. I think that "car surfing" probably should be discounted at this time. Good thought, but there is not one shred of evidence, or inference, that this is a past time among the skateboarders in Richmond. I doubt that the streets are set up to accomodate this "sport".

The "highly illegal" activity that Taylor allegedly spoke about to Kevin is just that - not confirmed. Oh, and, Kevin and Ben Fawley were NOT acquainted.

What else - Mikey, thanks for keeping this all in perspective, however difficult that may be.

Hi PK!

How can we be sure that Taylor even made that statement to Kevin? Unless there were others present, we only have Kevin's word for it. So, I agree with you that the "highly illegal" comment, Taylor was to have made to Kevin, is merely alleged, not confirmed.

[LadyLibertea]

:shrug: I think Kevin took a poly for his statement. Kevin told the interviewer that he did not know Ben. I think Taylor did make the odd statement to him, because he has been questioned, I think he was a grand jury invitee, he is a kid, and I think he would have collapsed under the pressure if he was lying. I think the only people who know anything are Taylor, Ben and maybe Mike and Katie.

[LadyLibertea]

"And remember HE said he walked her back at 9.30....HE DID NOT...Jake was the one who walked her back..."


Right Vedder, and in that interview he said "we walked her, uhm I walked her back............."

[BFD - v2.0]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


If Kevin is lying, how could it "be disproven so easily"? If Kevin is claiming Taylor said this to him, and she is now deceased, we have only his word for it.

The part that is easily disproven is whether he knew Ben Fawley or not. Or do you think Ben Fawley and this particular Kevin person had a secret relationship that no one else knew about?

Very unlikely.

In that particular community, it would be easily found out if they knew each other or not.

And I still don't understand exactly why he would lie about it immediately after finding out she went missing.

What would be his motive for making it up? A whim?

The only way he would lie about it is by knowing Taylor was already dead (within the first few days of her going missing) and knowing she couldn't ever refute it.

And if you're assuming he already knew she was dead; and he and Ben Fawley don't know each other... well... what would that say? Ben's decided to do something honorable and take the rap for people he doesn't even know?

I find no reason not to believe Kevin. He has absolutely no reason to lie about it at all. Unless someone can find evidence of Kevin being friends with Ben Fawley. (But that could easily be found out through interviews)

[BFD - v2.0]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


Hi PK!

How can we be sure that Taylor even made that statement to Kevin? Unless there were others present, we only have Kevin's word for it. So, I agree with you that the "highly illegal" comment, Taylor was to have made to Kevin, is merely alleged, not confirmed.

How can you be sure she didn't make that comment? Just because it throws unanswered questions into the mix?

Kevin went to the police on his own accord within days and told them that. He repeated the story to Marilyn.

If there is a trial, he will, without doubt, be called to testify about his interaction with Taylor that evening. Unless someone comes up with a compelling reason to show he isn't credible, I don't see him being impeached on the stand.

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by BFD - v2.0


The part that is easily disproven is whether he knew Ben Fawley or not. Or do you think Ben Fawley and this particular Kevin person had a secret relationship that no one else knew about?

Very unlikely.

In that particular community, it would be easily found out if they knew each other or not.

And I still don't understand exactly why he would lie about it immediately after finding out she went missing.

What would be his motive for making it up? A whim?

The only way he would lie about it is by knowing Taylor was already dead (within the first few days of her going missing) and knowing she couldn't ever refute it.

And if you're assuming he already knew she was dead; and he and Ben Fawley don't know each other... well... what would that say? Ben's decided to do something honorable and take the rap for people he doesn't even know?

I find no reason not to believe Kevin. He has absolutely no reason to lie about it at all. Unless someone can find evidence of Kevin being friends with Ben Fawley. (But that could easily be found out through interviews)

Perhaps I'm interjecting too much of my 17 year old self in this scenario, as I would have never made a statement like that to a mere acquaintance. But then again, I've never done, or had thoughts of doing anything illegal.

I also find it odd that someone would make such a statement without the person asking what illegal thing they had in mind. Human curiosity dictates that to be a likely quesiton. Unless, of course, Kevin did ask that question and the answer will come forth at a later date.

Another possible scenario is that Kevin wanted to be part of the investigation, and was interjecting himself into what someone, who was about to turn 18, might say.

I'm not judging Kevin, since I know nothing about him. I'm just offering some possibiliities. Kevin's statement could be totally honest. I would simply like to know more about him.

IMO

[LADY2NOW]

Originally posted by BFD - v2.0


How can you be sure she didn't make that comment? Just because it throws unanswered questions into the mix?

Kevin went to the police on his own accord within days and told them that. He repeated the story to Marilyn.

If there is a trial, he will, without doubt, be called to testify about his interaction with Taylor that evening. Unless someone comes up with a compelling reason to show he isn't credible, I don't see him being impeached on the stand.

I've thought all along that Kevin didn't make up Taylor's statement. I'm leaning more and more toward the idea that "illegal", in slang, really doesn't mean, "illegal". At the time she allegedly said it to Kevin, he may have thought it a bit odd, but not overly so. Once she disappeared, however, that statement would have taken on greater significance to Kevin, hence his visit to police to tell them about it. If a friend/acquaintance of mine went missing and I'd had contact with that person in the hours/days before their disappearance, I would be re-hashing our last conversation(s) in the hopes of helping LE gain clues.

Early on it was reported that on the evening before Taylor returned to Vienna, she had been skateboarding with Kevin and another boarding acquaintance. In some early reports, it was stated that Taylor left her dorm room that night to go skateboarding (some reports had her leaving her dorm room with a skateboard, others did not). Voila, BF has an explanation for his last encounter with Taylor (she came over to borrow a skateboard) and he has an idea of whom he can say he thought she was going to be with later that night. Maybe, because BF got the feeling that police weren't ready to buy his alibi (I was abducted, dumped on a dirt road, yada, yada) lock, stock and barrel, he thought of a way to divert attention away from himself--enter unsuspecting Kevin. BF goes to Kevin's place of work to see if he knows what happened to Taylor (BF: I'm a friend of Taylor's. She borrowed my skateboard that night. I thought she was going skateboarding with you guys. Did she ever show up? No? That's odd. When's the last time you saw her. Did she say anything odd? Kevin: Well, now that I think about it, yeah, she did. I didn't think about it much at the time but maybe I should report her statement to the police.).

Just my imagination at work...

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by LADY2NOW


I've thought all along that Kevin didn't make up Taylor's statement. I'm leaning more and more toward the idea that "illegal", in slang, really doesn't mean, "illegal". At the time she allegedly said it to Kevin, he may have thought it a bit odd, but not overly so. Once she disappeared, however, that statement would have taken on greater significance to Kevin, hence his visit to police to tell them about it. If a friend/acquaintance of mine went missing and I'd had contact with that person in the hours/days before their disappearance, I would be re-hashing our last conversation(s) in the hopes of helping LE gain clues.

Early on it was reported that on the evening before Taylor returned to Vienna, she had been skateboarding with Kevin and another boarding acquaintance. In some early reports, it was stated that Taylor left her dorm room that night to go skateboarding (some reports had her leaving her dorm room with a skateboard, others did not). Voila, BF has an explanation for his last encounter with Taylor (she came over to borrow a skateboard) and he has an idea of whom he can say he thought she was going to be with later that night. Maybe, because BF got the feeling that police weren't ready to buy his alibi (I was abducted, dumped on a dirt road, yada, yada) lock, stock and barrel, he thought of a way to divert attention away from himself--enter unsuspecting Kevin. BF goes to Kevin's place of work to see if he knows what happened to Taylor (BF: I'm a friend of Taylor's. She borrowed my skateboard that night. I thought she was going skateboarding with you guys. Did she ever show up? No? That's odd. When's the last time you saw her. Did she say anything odd? Kevin: Well, now that I think about it, yeah, she did. I didn't think about it much at the time but maybe I should report her statement to the police.).

Just my imagination at work...

Good thoughts, Lady. All of it seems quite logical and possible.

If a friend/acquaintance of yours made the "highly illegal" statement to you, wouldn't you wonder and ask that they were referring to, so that you could advise or caution them to rethink their choice?

IMO

[BFD - v2.0]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


Good thoughts, Lady. All of it seems quite logical and possible.

If a friend/acquaintance of yours made the "highly illegal" statement to you, wouldn't you wonder and ask that they were referring to, so that you could advise or caution them to rethink their choice?

IMO

As an adult, I would agree with you.

As a kid, I would probably try to one-up them.

Pure speculation, but it would seem Taylor was attracted to the "bad boys". I don't know anything about Kevin (or Taylor, other than her writings), but I don't think it would be out of the realm of possibilities that she told Kevin that wanting to impress him in some manner. It could have been her blowing smoke.

[LADY2NOW]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


Good thoughts, Lady. All of it seems quite logical and possible.

If a friend/acquaintance of yours made the "highly illegal" statement to you, wouldn't you wonder and ask that they were referring to, so that you could advise or caution them to rethink their choice?

IMO

You bet I would! But, if I thought they were just being flippant about something at the time it was said, I might not dig further. On the other hand, according to some reports, Kevin has said that he thought she was a straight-arrow but was running with a rough crowd (BF and Cino). Maybe Kevin's a straight-arrow and didn't want to hear anything further about the "highly illegal" thing...

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by BFD - v2.0


As an adult, I would agree with you.

As a kid, I would probably try to one-up them.

Pure speculation, but it would seem Taylor was attracted to the "bad boys". I don't know anything about Kevin (or Taylor, other than her writings), but I don't think it would be out of the realm of possibilities that she told Kevin that wanting to impress him in some manner. It could have been her blowing smoke.

I was always mature beyond my years. My only vices were smoking, a suppressed desire to own all the clothes in the world, (LOL) and although I was never attracted to "bad boys", and in fact, stood clear of them, I did enjoy dating/"going steady" with the "good boys".

I don't know much about Jake. I wonder if he was a "bad boy" type?

[LadyLibertea]

My husband is the type of person that never asks enough questions. He would not have asked Taylor what she was going to do, he would have left it alone if she did not offer more info. He always tells me stuff and I say when, he didn't ask, with who, he didn't ask, what happened next, he didn't ask! He never asks follow up questions, some people are just like that, not us, we want to know everything.

[LADY2NOW]

Originally posted by LadyLibertea
My husband is the type of person that never asks enough questions. He would not have asked Taylor what she was going to do, he would have left it alone if she did not offer more info. He always tells me stuff and I say when, he didn't ask, with who, he didn't ask, what happened next, he didn't ask! He never asks follow up questions, some people are just like that, not us, we want to know everything.

You are so right! My husband's the same way!

Had another thought (two, actually--hope my poor old brain can handle it!). I keep wondering why she said that (if she did) to Kevin. It would make sense that the alleged statement had to do with skateboarding. We've been batting around the idea that "illegal" might be more figurative than literal, and Kevin has said she referred to "it" as an early birthday present. She didn't own a skateboard. What if she'd decided to blow big bucks on a really expensive skateboard--money that was earmarked for school/living expenses? Also, second thought, neither Taylor nor Kevin knew that the encounter in the Village Cafe would be their last. Maybe, as Taylor and Jake were headed out of the Cafe, Taylor said, "Hold on a sec, gotta tell Kevin something", she ran up to Kevin, made this statement (fully expecting to fill him in the next time they went skateboarding) and dashed on out with Jake. These are kids we're talking about, not 30- or 40- year olds.

[nibblet]

Originally posted by LADY2NOW


I've thought all along that Kevin didn't make up Taylor's statement. I'm leaning more and more toward the idea that "illegal", in slang, really doesn't mean, "illegal"...

When I was 17, the word "bad" was used to imply the opposite of what it seemed.

I'm trying to think of other words or phrases from the mid-70s / early 80's but our Halloween party is starting and there are good (or BAD) eats in the conference room!:hat:

[protectkidz]

I wondered, too, Paula - how Kevin responded when Taylor said she was going to do that "highly illegal" thing.

My husband is not much of a digger, either! He sees what's on the surface, and I usually have to fill in the blanks for him. LOL.

Interesting how the word "illegal" can mean so many different things to different people. I hope we'll hear sometime what the whole story was on this.

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by protectkidz
I wondered, too, Paula - how Kevin responded when Taylor said she was going to do that "highly illegal" thing.

My husband is not much of a digger, either! He sees what's on the surface, and I usually have to fill in the blanks for him. LOL.

Interesting how the word "illegal" can mean so many different things to different people. I hope we'll hear sometime what the whole story was on this.

In my family, my husband is the inquisitive one. He sometimes asks questions, which I wouldn't ask someone. I am of the belief that if a person wishes to disclose something to me, they will. If not, I never pry, or ask questions.

However, I don't view this as prying. If an acquaintance, or friend of mine, made a "highly illegal" statement like that, I would view it as that person perhaps wanting my opinion, but maybe being too proud to ask for it.

As a friend, who wouldn't want someone I knew getting into trouble, I would ask what their idea of something "highly illegal" entailed.

IMO

[c_biscuit]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


Perhaps I'm interjecting too much of my 17 year old self in this scenario, as I would have never made a statement like that to a mere acquaintance. But then again, I've never done, or had thoughts of doing anything illegal.

I also find it odd that someone would make such a statement without the person asking what illegal thing they had in mind. Human curiosity dictates that to be a likely quesiton. Unless, of course, Kevin did ask that question and the answer will come forth at a later date.

Another possible scenario is that Kevin wanted to be part of the investigation, and was interjecting himself into what someone, who was about to turn 18, might say.

I'm not judging Kevin, since I know nothing about him. I'm just offering some possibiliities. Kevin's statement could be totally honest. I would simply like to know more about him.

IMO

Having been a teenager a few years ago, I do think it's very possible a girl would make a comment like that to someone she knew, even if not very well. She was obviously excited about whatever she was going to do. And when people are excited about something, they like to tell other people.

I think he probably did ask her what she was going to do, but she never told him as that would be too personal - much more personal than the vague statement that she was gong to do something illegal.

I have no reason to think that his statement anything but truthful and that if she had told him what she was going to do, he would have already told LE.

All we have is a statement Taylor most likely made to Kevin about planning to do something "highly illegal" - which is pretty vague. It really doesn't help us much unless we know what she meant. It may actually have nothing to do with her death. And we don't even know if it's related to Ben somehow.

If it is related to Ben, maybe she only told Kevin because Kevin didn't know Ben? Because if she told someone closer to her that knew Ben, they would have stopped her?

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by c_biscuit


Having been a teenager a few years ago, I do think it's very possible a girl would make a comment like that to someone she knew, even if not very well. She was obviously excited about whatever she was going to do. And when people are excited about something, they like to tell other people.

I think he probably did ask her what she was going to do, but she never told him as that would be too personal - much more personal than the vague statement that she was gong to do something illegal.

I have no reason to think that his statement anything but truthful and that if she had told him what she was going to do, he would have already told LE.

All we have is a statement Taylor most likely made to Kevin about planning to do something "highly illegal" - which is pretty vague. It really doesn't help us much unless we know what she meant. It may actually have nothing to do with her death. And we don't even know if it's related to Ben somehow.

If it is related to Ben, maybe she only told Kevin because Kevin didn't know Ben? Because if she told someone closer to her that knew Ben, they would have stopped her?

I guess I don't understand the reason for the "half disclosure", unless of course, Kevin does know, but was cautioned by LE against revealing the meaning behind that "highly illegal" comment.

[poplife]

It really doesn't help us much unless we know what she meant. It may actually have nothing to do with her death. And we don't even know if it's related to Ben somehow.

If it was w/ someone other than Ben, you'd think they would have come forward to LE already- I find it hard to believe she planned something to the point of mentioning it and she was going to do it alone.

[PSN]

If Taylor was going to do something Highly Illegal. I dont think it was planned for that night.

The last time she went to her dorm. I think she was going to call it a night. Until she seen her room mates boy friend there and thought she would leave to give them some time together.

It was already late and she hadn't planned on going back out. And the room mate said she told her she would be back in 3 hrs. That would mean she would of returned at 1:20 in the morning. Why would she want to stay out so late if she had to go to school the next day? Where could she be going that late? Things I dont understand. Dont you think someone would have seen her walking down the road that late at night?

[Blackspell]

The highly illegal activity was probably to take part in doing some drug for her first time. The friend she had been with, that the dog sniffed out WAS arrested for cocain possesion. That may seem out of character for her, but you should have been at my 18th birthday party! I couldn't feel my face for 3 days, and I had never touched an illegal substance in my life. Just like you guys said, kids will be kids. And these life experiences are how they learn. So she was a little frisky, and premiscuous. Most girls that age are, and it's not exactly something you go talk to your mom about. That vulnerability is what nasty *** Ben Fawley took advantage of, and what men like him do to young girls. Even IF (the smallest word, with the biggest meaning) she did have consentual sex with him that night. He still performed a sexual act on a child, and he murdered a child. She did absolutley nothing to deserve that. And any rebelious, or illegal activity she was involved in doesn't make what he did ok. I don't think some silly comment like that should be so reluvant to this case, nor do I think it will be.

[Blackspell]

Originally posted by PSN
If Taylor was going to do something Highly Illegal. I dont think it was planned for that night.

The last time she went to her dorm. I think she was going to call it a night. Until she seen her room mates boy friend there and thought she would leave to give them some time together.

It was already late and she hadn't planned on going back out. And the room mate said she told her she would be back in 3 hrs. That would mean she would of returned at 1:20 in the morning. Why would she want to stay out so late if she had to go to school the next day? Where could she be going that late? Things I dont understand. Dont you think someone would have seen her walking down the road that late at night?


I think Ben Fawley saw her walk down that street that night, and she met her ill fate when he did. She parked her car near his apartment, and she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[smedley]

I've felt the "highly illegal" story was fishy from the first time I read it in Marilyn Bardsley's Crimelibrary.com article "Behl Aquaintance Drops Bombshell". After re-reading that article the statement smells even funnier. Anything below in quotes is from Ms. Bardsley's article.

"The next time and the last time — Kevin saw her was Monday, Sept. 5 around 8:45 p.m. She had been eating dinner with a former boyfriend, but later, by herself sought out Kevin to tell him something she was excited about. 'I'm going to do something highly illegal,' she confided. 'an early birthday present.' "

Right away I felt Kevin going to LE to let them know the victim was a bad girl was like a kid volunteering information that neither admits or denies guilt. We've all known kids, and we've been kids ourselves. I'm sure you've heard this kind of thing from a kid, before you find out that antique vase is broken, the car is bent, etc.

Re-reading, I notice that he has the time as 8:45 pm, and after Taylor's dinner with her former boyfriend. Problem is the former boyfriend supposedly walked her to her dorm after dinner. She would have had to get away from the former boyfriend for a while to seek out Kevin, (at Kevin's workplace? same place she had dinner? I'm not sure) then get back with former boyfriend for the walk home, arriving at the dorm around 9:20-9:30 pm.

Kevin not asking her about the illegal activity has been discussed, but what about the birthday part of the supposed statement? When someone mentions an upcoming birthday, doesn't every ask 'oh, when's your birthday'? Or did he already know her birthdate? On September 5th her birthday was a little over 5 weeks away. (I bet BF knew her birthdate).

I have some other feelings about this subject, I will try to post them a little later tonight.

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by Blackspell
The highly illegal activity was probably to take part in doing some drug for her first time. The friend she had been with, that the dog sniffed out WAS arrested for cocain possesion. That may seem out of character for her, but you should have been at my 18th birthday party! I couldn't feel my face for 3 days, and I had never touched an illegal substance in my life. Just like you guys said, kids will be kids. And these life experiences are how they learn. So she was a little frisky, and premiscuous. Most girls that age are, and it's not exactly something you go talk to your mom about. That vulnerability is what nasty *** Ben Fawley took advantage of, and what men like him do to young girls. Even IF (the smallest word, with the biggest meaning) she did have consentual sex with him that night. He still performed a sexual act on a child, and he murdered a child. She did absolutley nothing to deserve that. And any rebelious, or illegal activity she was involved in doesn't make what he did ok. I don't think some silly comment like that should be so reluvant to this case, nor do I think it will be.

For me, it's not the "highly illegal" statement, it is: Did Taylor really say that to Kevin? If she didn't say it, why did Kevin say she did?

[smedley]

More thoughts on the Crimelibrary article "Behl Aquaintance Drops Bombshell" by Marilyn Bardsley (quotes are from the article):

[Kevin's] "...impression of Taylor was that she was a "straight arrow, normal girl that had her act together, but she was running with a rough crowd."
and from later in the article:
"When I asked Kevin what he meant by "running with a rough crowd," he was referring to Fawley."

Kevin claimed he didn't know BF, supposedly never met him until Thursday Sept 8. How did Kevin's impression of Taylor come to include her running around with a rough crowd (a crowd of one, BF) if he didn't know BF? Did he learn that she was running around with BF and that BF was a 'rough crowd' during their brief meeting that Thursday? How did he know that? The running with an (unspecified) 'rough crowd' statment sounds to me like another way to make the victim seem bad as a pre-emptive measure, something made up by a kid. When Ms. Bardsley asked about the 'crowd', I think he had no answer, so the crowd became one person, BF, who was already locked up. (The Kevin interview took place on Oct 4, one day after he was subpoenaed to appear before the Oct 5 Grand Jury)

the "highly illegal" statment hit my BS meter at first, and now the needle is going up, (I still like the vacuum tube analogue BS meters, aka "VTBM"! )

{the above includes speculation, meant to encourage thought and discussion}

[Hey Paula]

I agree with you Smedley, as I got the same impression, i.e., that Kevin, for some reason, appeared to be painting Taylor as a "bad girl". His remarks about Taylor "running around with a rough crowd" to confessing to him that she was going to do something "highly illegal" have led me to think this way.

[BFD - v2.0]

Originally posted by smedley
More thoughts on the Crimelibrary article "Behl Aquaintance Drops Bombshell" by Marilyn Bardsley (quotes are from the article):

[Kevin's] "...impression of Taylor was that she was a "straight arrow, normal girl that had her act together, but she was running with a rough crowd."
and from later in the article:
"When I asked Kevin what he meant by "running with a rough crowd," he was referring to Fawley."

Kevin claimed he didn't know BF, supposedly never met him until Thursday Sept 8. How did Kevin's impression of Taylor come to include her running around with a rough crowd (a crowd of one, BF) if he didn't know BF? Did he learn that she was running around with BF and that BF was a 'rough crowd' during their brief meeting that Thursday? How did he know that? The running with an (unspecified) 'rough crowd' statment sounds to me like another way to make the victim seem bad as a pre-emptive measure, something made up by a kid. When Ms. Bardsley asked about the 'crowd', I think he had no answer, so the crowd became one person, BF, who was already locked up. (The Kevin interview took place on Oct 4, one day after he was subpoenaed to appear before the Oct 5 Grand Jury)

the "highly illegal" statment hit my BS meter at first, and now the needle is going up, (I still like the vacuum tube analogue BS meters, aka "VTBM"! )

{the above includes speculation, meant to encourage thought and discussion}

I'll speculate and discuss.

It makes complete sense that Kevin would think Ben was a "rough crowd".

Ben had been arrested and charged with possession of child pornography by the time he made that statement.

In fact, the vast majority of people on this very forum (and many other forums and blogs out there) had also made that exact same determination: Ben Fawley was bad news.

I hate to see this poor guy getting slammed for "making the victim bad" when 90% of the posts on this forum at this time were castigating Ben without knowing him at the same time this interview was done. What's the difference between Kevin saying it and everyone else on these forums posting it?

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by BFD - v2.0


I'll speculate and discuss.

It makes complete sense that Kevin would think Ben was a "rough crowd".

Ben had been arrested and charged with possession of child pornography by the time he made that statement.

In fact, the vast majority of people on this very forum (and many other forums and blogs out there) had also made that exact same determination: Ben Fawley was bad news.

I hate to see this poor guy getting slammed for "making the victim bad" when 90% of the posts on this forum at this time were castigating Ben without knowing him at the same time this interview was done. What's the difference between Kevin saying it and everyone else on these forums posting it?

I think Smedley's point was Kevin's use of the word "crowd", when BF is only one person. The use of a collective noun makes it appear that Taylor had a number of rough friends that she hung out with.

[smedley]

More questions about the Crimelibrary article "Behl Aquaintance Drops Bombshell" by Marilyn Bardsley, Oct 5 2005 (quotes are from the article, and they are out of order from the article):

Quote 1) "Kevin said that he went to the VCU police Thursday to tell them about skateboarding with Taylor Saturday night and what she told him the night she disappeared. That same day, Kevin met Ben Fawley, Taylor's amateur photographer friend, for the first time."

Question 1a) Did Kevin and BF meet before or after Kevin met with VCU Police?


Quote 2) "Fawley had learned about the skateboarding with Taylor and approached him [Kevin] at his place of work." (my italics)

2a) How did BF 'learn' about the skateboarding? Who told him?

2b) How did BF identify Kevin at Kevin's place of work? (To 'approach' Kevin, BF needed either a definite description of Kevin, or someone with BF to point Kevin out, or would've had to ask 'Who's Kevin'? at the workplace. )

2c) Did BF "learn" of anyone else and approach him or her a few days after her dissapearance to claim an ongoing sexual relationship with Taylor?

2d) When BF "approached him at his place of work", did Kevin ask any questions out loud, like: 'How the heck did you find me?' How do you know I know Taylor? Boss, I need to tak to this guy BF for a minute? .... anyone witness that meeting?

Quote 3) "...the last time — Kevin saw her was Monday, Sept. 5 around 8:45 p.m. She had been eating dinner with a former boyfriend, but later, by herself sought out Kevin to tell him something she was excited about."

3a) Did she seek out Kevin for a quick, one sided conversation to let him know she was gonna risk arrest on some unspecified date (Her birthday was a little over 5 weeks away), then say "See you later??? Sounds fishy. Where did she seek him out? at his place of work?(Same way BF approached Kevin at his place of work for a quick, one sided story?)

Quote 4) "I'm going to do something highly illegal," she confided. "an early birthday present." Kevin sounded a bit wary of that announcement and didn't ask her for specifics."

4a) When a coming birthday present is mentioned, doesn't every socialized person in our society ask 'Oh, when's your birthday?'... (Kevin wasn't curious about the "illegal" comment OR the "birthday present" comment??? no curiousity, but people seek or approach him and tell him things.)

Quote 5) [Kevin] "didn't ask her for specifics"

5a) Who else thinks the "highly illegal" statement might pass, but for no "specifics" on when her birthday was due? Or maybe thinking there's too little detail to the story, kinda like BF's abduction story?

The above is speculation

[odette]

Originally posted by LadyLibertea
[B][SIZE=3][FONT=century gothic][COLOR=blue]
:confused: I still find the highly illegal statement odd.

Is the Kevin who made the reference to Taylor's statement the same Kevin as the Kevin rumored to be 1 of the 3 skaters that were with Taylor the night she disappeared? Did ya'll follow that horrible sentence?

I remember doing and saying things as a teenager to get attention or to appear off the chain, xtreme wild. I once put cold medicine in a clear container to make it look like coke, I left it in my car, and asked an employee to go to my car to get something for me. When he came back I was acting nervous and I questioned him about what he saw in my car. He said nothing. Is Taylor an only child? I am, and as an adult I can see that I was really doing crazy stuff because I wanted someone to care about me and say stop being so wild, you are beautiful, brilliant, etc.

So with all that said, if Taylor was sober and she made the statement Kevin reported, she may have just been trying to get Kevin to say "Taylor what are you going to do that is highly illegal? Do not do anything stupid. Taylor, you are too beautiful and brilliant to fu** up"!

I am doubting the idea that Taylor would agree to take kiddie porn pics for Ben at night in Mathews. When people started suggesting the kiddie porn picture theory I took my digital camera outside and tested it. The night was very dark, in the country, couple of street lights, no business in my area. The pictures close up of people were okay, my husband is not white, a lighter person would have been easier to see. The shots into emptiness were worthless, there had to be a solid structure in the background, or the person had to be close. Maybe if they were in one of the houses in Mathews there would be more flash.
:eek: UUURK.... Hit the brakes, and why would Taylor go all the way to Matthew's to do that when she had an apt. Ben had an apt. stocked with photo props, and everyone they knew had an apt. and hotels are cheap! It does not sound right, but I could be wrong.














[QUOTE]Is the Kevin who made the reference to Taylor's statement the same Kevin as the Kevin rumored to be 1 of the 3 skaters that were with Taylor the night she disappeared?

I don't know if this might clear up which Kevin is which.
I'm still confused lol.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/myfailures/62411.html#cutid1

[Blackspell]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


I think Smedley's point was Kevin's use of the word "crowd", when BF is only one person. The use of a collective noun makes it appear that Taylor had a number of rough friends that she hung out with.

I'm glad you brought proper English terms into this. People often neglect to do that. Along with using a collective noun, he spoke in past tense. Speaking of the coversation he had with Taylor BEFORE he had this interview. And speaking of meeting Fawley after she disappeared, but also BEFORE this interview. It's silly to try and disect what he said. And he also could have known of Taylor's involvment with Fawley, and not known Fawley himself.
Her room mate had known of Fawley, but hadn't made his aquantance. And we already know Taylor hung out with Fawley amost the presence of at least one other person. It's been varified that she met Fawley through his former room mate, and her friend Cino. Again the guy that she had dinner with was arrested for cocain. A coke head, a child molester, and his room mate... I could definately call that a "rough crowd." I'm sure there were more. Speaking of Cino, have thier been any interviews with him? I haven't heard much about this guy, and it seems he would have some insight on Ben and Taylor's relationship. You would think we would have heard more about him.


On a different note. I don't want to sound like an ***, but I'm probably gonna. Why is it so hard for people conceive that Taylor
might not have been such a good girl? It seems like anyone that sells her short of being this sweet, innocent, little girl gets a finger thrown in thier face. If you put things into perspective, all of her friends paint the same image of her. Being all of those things, and just a little devious. I know I'm not the only person here that would have fit this scenario when I was 17. Sure her mother won't believe this portrait of her, and will defend her being an angel because to her she was, and this sicko has taken that from her. We're all compelled to defend her, otherwise we wouldn't visit this board everyday in our way to do so. If you line up 10 people that know me including my parents, I'll bet thier perception is gonna be a lot less colorful than anyone elses. And in no way am I saying that this constitutes whats happend to her being deserved(and some one will try and turn it into that). I've already expressed how compassionate I am to this girl, and what this moster did to her. But it just seems to me that the people that have come forth and spoken anything less of Taylor being the girl next door, get ambushed. Thats really not fair, because they lost someone special too. And they want justice, and resolution just as bad as we do. With that said, I think the reason all of us are so heartbroken is because we can see this being ourselves at one point, or our child. Thats what it is for me anyway.

Sorry for the rant.

[Hey Paula]

Thanks for your reply to my post.

Unless they were unsavory characters in life, I suppose it's only natural to speak with a certain degree of reverence for the deceased, especially because they cannot refute or defend themselves against negative and/or untrue statements.

There appears to be conflicting opinions of Taylor between her hometown friends and those in Richmond who only knew her briefly. True, none of her hometown friends have labeled her an "angel", but all seem to agree that Taylor was a clean cut girl whose only vice seemed to be smoking cigarettes. From those accounts, Taylor did not partake in drugs.

According to the friends, who knew her best, Taylor had been intimate with BF at one time, but later felt he was "creepy" and was no longer interested in him in a romantic way.

This is at odds with Kevin's seeming "bad girl image, which appears to mesh with BF's statement that Taylor's mother wasn't going to like to hear certain things about her daughter. This being Taylor's Freshman year at VCU, Taylor was only in Richmond a short time, didn't know many people, and was anxious to make friends, as per her LJ musings, I am wondering how Taylor could have been "running with a rough crowd" and thinking of doing something "highly illegal"; derogatory statements, which apppear to be at odds with what those who knew her best are saying.

I merely wondered if these were intentional slurs, planted for a reason, with the intent of assisting BF in some way. Did Kevin and Taylor have mutual acquaintances?

I don't doubt that Taylor might have been an adventurous young lady, but as a mother myself, I would hate to see her being depicted as a "bad girl" if she wasn't.

[TN_Profiler]

Blackspell & Smedley - I enjoyed your questions and comments!

Much talk on this board keeps revolving around a comment that I think has been given way too much wieght ..... "highly illegal".

Paula points out (correctly) that the use of a collective noun, "rough crowd", may not have been the proper use to describe what Kevin really meant. The same applies to "highly illegal". The use of the English language is diluted with so much slang that you would be hard pressed to find a person who speaks in a manner that would follow the rules of our language. The younger a person is, the more likely they are not going to use the correct tense or the proper diction to describe something.

Seasoned LE analyzes the speech patterns of suspects to ascertain clues. Did they refer to the person in past tense? (possibly indicating knowledge of death) Do they talk in third person? (attempting to distance themselves from the situation) That is tougher to do with today's youth. "Highly illegal" has so many possibilities and so many degrees of seriousness that it is now impossible to know what her intent was. Also it would be hard to know if she even said that since she cannot confirm or argue the point. "Highly illegal" is therefore hearsay at this point.

"Rough crowd" is another term that can be used incorrectly or in a connotation that is inconsistent with the literal translation. What I am trying to say is that you cannot look at the specific quote and determine the intent of the usage.

Case in point - I use certain words that my wife does not. She is 10 years younger than I am. I am from NYC and she is from the suburbs of Connecticut. "Tight" to me is something that is good, "tight" to my wife is something that is, well ..... not loose. "Rough crowd" to Kevin could be a way to describe anyone who looks like trouble, and not a reference to many people. "Highly illegal" to Taylor could have meant something that had nothing to do with breaking any statute. (i.e. - seeing an ex boyfriend is commonly referred to as highly illegal among younger people)

"Rough sex" to my wife means we haven't washed the sheets in 2 days. "Rough sex" to Benny-boy could mean raping and strangling a girl who has rejected him and then stealing her car to dispose of her body in a ravine.

Since I have an undergraduate degree in English, I thought I might chime in and see if I can help clarify the comments about language and how people use it differently.

Hope this helps.

[LADY2NOW]

Early this morning, as I and my friend were on our regular 3-mile "dog walk", my friend used the phrase "highly illegal" (she's 62, I'm 47). We chat about many subjects on our walks, both past and present. Her use of the phrase was with regard to something benign, relatively speaking (it involved duck hunting) that occured many, many years ago. I'm laughing my head off because the antics she's describing really are funny. At the end of the narrative, she said, "Of course, it was highly illegal!"

[somechick]

Considering what I've heard about Fawley and his "crowd" and the few that I've met post-Taylor's death, I'm inclined to believe that "highly illegal" meant the use of drugs. Even though her hometown friends say she only smoke cigarettes (and I think I even read a story about her reactions to a pot-smoking friend), somehow I think she may have curious and could be easily talked into (considering her new surroundings and friends) trying marijuana or ecstasy or acid just once. After all, most people her age would say "what's the harm in trying something just once?"

Thanks for your comments Blackspell. I've often alluded to Taylor not being that innocent, which usually results in my being accused of defending BF. It's nice to know that someone else can feel sympathy for a victim while, at the same time, acknowledging her faults. It's similar to the idea of a girl in a short skirt walking down an alley in the middle of the night. I can think "that's mighty stupid of that girl" and "she didn't deserve to be assaulted/murdered" in the same moment, without feeling like I made a contradiction.

[somechick]

"In any event, toxicology reports (when available) should end your speculation."

You seem so sure of yourself, gopeterson. Do have some inside info you'd like to share? Or were you just speculating? I don't recall writing that everything I've written was based on irrefutable fact. Whatever gave you that idea? I said I can seperate my emotions from journalistic curiosity. Let's see, I also said something about looking at thing from different angles other than the accepted norms can reveal a deeper truth.

I'm not quite sure why you're suddenly attacking my posts and, furthermore, my character based on postings on a messageboard that takes up literally .5% of my week. A messageboard that is pretty much based on the practice of "speculation" that you like to attack so much. Eh ... whatever gives you something to get heated about.:seeya:

[memap1965]

Originally posted by somechick
"In any event, toxicology reports (when available) should end your speculation."

You seem so sure of yourself, gopeterson. Do have some inside info you'd like to share? Or were you just speculating? I don't recall writing that everything I've written was based on irrefutable fact. Whatever gave you that idea? I said I can seperate my emotions from journalistic curiosity. Let's see, I also said something about looking at thing from different angles other than the accepted norms can reveal a deeper truth.

I'm not quite sure why you're suddenly attacking my posts and, furthermore, my character based on postings on a messageboard that takes up literally .5% of my week. A messageboard that is pretty much based on the practice of "speculation" that you like to attack so much. Eh ... whatever gives you something to get heated about.:seeya:

I have to agree with you somechick....looks to me like you're just being attacked for no apparent reason. You're right though....most everything here is "speculation", so I guess we all look foolish according to gopeterson.
JMO

[EscamillosGirl]

Originally posted by somechick
Eh ... whatever gives you something to get heated about.:seeya:

It's been that kind of week, methinks. I'm getting the same thing on another board not related to Taylor. It just feels like, with holidays approaching, people might be taking the losses of others very hard and very personally, and anyone who looks at things in an unusual manner might be more open to heated criticism right now. Maybe it's the moon.

Taylor's case has touched many of us. For me it's been really easy to just say "Well, Ben Fawley should rot in hell." I still have to admit I feel that way, but I'm not sure that Fawley will do much time for this kill. I don't know if the proof is going to be there. I do think his behavior after the fact indicates a very serious character flaw in his person, and I do think he is not safe to be on the streets.

And mostly, I still think of Taylor, however normal and rebellious she may have been, and wish she'd had time to grow up.

Lily

[somechick]

"The fact is that Somechick's speculation on the subject of drugs has no factual basis. Idle speculation about drug use does nothing to add to this story. If she were a responsible "journalist" then she would separate fact from pure speculation and report only what is fact."
gopeterson, please read this whole thing very carefully. THANKS.

I think I addressed this before, but I'll reitterate it once again. THIS IS A MESSAGEBOARD, not a newspaper. Not quite sure why my posts bother you moreso than anyone elses. I'm not the only poster on this board that has "speculated" that the "highly illegal" activity could have been drugs. I didn't even claim that drugs would or would not be found in her system (you did that, my friend, nice "speculation" to use your favorite word). I just said that "I'm inclined to believe that highly illegal statement meant the use in drugs." Nothing definitely proves otherwise, but wait I almost forgot the popular opinion is that Taylor couldn't have meant anything really bad because she was really nice and sweet. Hey guess what? In the event that I die, a lot of people are going say how nice and sweet I am (really I'm ridiculously sweet, not that you have any reason to believe me, but I am), but that doesn't mean I never drank alcohol while underaged or smoked pot. So do you understand where I'm coming from? I didn't say "oh yeah taylor def meant drugs and she did them that night," I said I wouldn't blame her if she was curious and planned to try something. Did she try something that night? I don't know, I don't care, and it wouldn't change my opinion of her (I'm sure she was ridiculously sweet and kind ... that's my speculation, but I'm willing to bet that if I only posted 'from what I've read and heard she seemed kind and sweet,' you would never have attacked me in the first place. You probably would have agreed with me, and then we would have patted each other on the back).

Anyway i don't know what made you jump all over my posts, but I do know you have a narrow and misinformed view of journalism. While part of journalism is fact, another part of it is angles and exploring half-truths and lies in order to hit at the real the truth (which if its a good paper and journalist, that's the final, published story). I never claimed my posting on this board was to report the facts. This is the only place I've written about the Taylor Behl case. I haven't mentioned it on my blog, and I haven't written about it in my school paper (which is surprisingly mum on the issue ... they've only talked about her disappearance, then the vigil on campus and that's it. if you look at student paper its like it never happened).

I just wanted to make that clear to you: just because someone wants to be in journalism, (you don't even what kind of journalism I'm interested in, btw there are several) it doesn't mean that every single thing they write in every outlet (i.e. messageboards) is irrefutable and publication-worthy. PEACE.

[Kawaii]

Originally posted by gopeterson


No offense, but your posts, particularly the above one, is meaningless and adds nothing to the discussion. Perhaps when you actually get out of college and grow up you will have something meaningful to add to the discussion. Why don't you do us a favor and stop posting here. Thanks.


Ok that is the rudest thing I have ever heard. First of all this can't be a discussion board if everyone is going to be onesided. Somechick didn't say anything wrong and for that matter....who are you to decide if she adds anything to the discussion?!?! She offers a different perspective. If that isn't adding to a discussion then I don't know what is. You know, you can't sit around and say that Taylor would never had done certain things. At her age, you want to try new things. I am not saying that whatever she wanted to do was actually highly illegal but everyone needs to come to the realization that it could have been.

[somechick]

Thanks Kawaii.

gopeterson,
What exactly do you provide to all the meaningful discussions that take place on this board? I read your posts too. Please enlighten me in all the ways to stick with the status quo and stroke egos. You don't see me telling the people who post comments such as yours to get out. This board is OPEN and FREE to anyone and everyone.

Being an ageist and thinking you can speak for everyone on this OPEN and FREE board is a nice way get your point across. You can't even begin to think you have some idea of me based on my participation on this messageboard. Perhaps I'm younger than you, but your comments show me that I'm for the better. So why would I do favor for you? I've been posting here longer than you. I've posted more than you. And yet I could care less about your being on the same messageboard. I'm not selfish and stupid enough to think I can regulate a messageboard on the Internet. Anything else you say is just to get a rise out of me, so don't bother responding. As I said before, PEACE.
:seeya:

[SPC]

Ok. I have to agree with Kawaii and Somechick. I could see if someone was being foul or insultive to others, but message boards are for people to state their opinion, knowledge and thoughts. You don't earn respect from people by bullying them. You have the right to not agree with anyone on here or anywhere else for that matter, but have you no tact or grace? If you don't agree with someone you just say something like, "While I respect your point of view I tend to disagree." or of course you always have the option of ignoring them.

[LADY2NOW]

I am sorely disappointed that this and other threads on this message board have become nothing more than forums for some posters to rant and rave about themselves, as though the death of a 17-yr-old is incidental to the importance of others who are still alive. Get a life. Taylor can't. Remember that.

[somechick]

When members of this board attack me personally, I'm inclined to attack back, and for that I'm sorry. I did not start this "battle" of personalities, but I did end it though too late.

Veracity, perhaps someone should create a do's and don'ts sticky since there seems to be unspoken rules that some of us aren't aware of. I haven't found anything that states the rules of posting on this thread/board (maybe I'm searching in the wrong place?)

"I am sorely disappointed that this and other threads on this message board have become nothing more than forums for some posters to rant and rave about themselves, as though the death of a 17-yr-old is incidental to the importance of others who are still alive. Get a life. Taylor can't. Remember that."

Indeed. Boards like this one contain cliques, in which its members feel it's necessary to stroke each others' egos at every turn. Ego is man's power and his main flaw. We all succumb to it; I know I have in my inability to just ignore certain posters. We forget what first made us seek out this board: a beautiful life taken too soon.

[Hey Paula]

Thank you for your posts Veracity, which I agree with wholeheartedly.

Inasmuch as Ben Fawley has already confessed to having killed Taylor, this is not a whodunit. The only speculation which remains, is how, where and when Fawley peretrated his heinous crime, which took the young life of Taylor Marie Behl. Hence, speculation and discussion should be centered on Fawley.

As you so eloquently stated, negative speculation towards Taylor serves no purpose, other than to attempt to diminish the heinousness of Fawley's crime through implications, subtle or otherwise, that Taylor might have somehow contributed to her own demise. Inasmuch as Taylor cannot defend herself against such speculation, it is unfair and morally wrong.

I stand united with you in your efforts.

[jace]

I'm new to this site so forgive me if I don't follow protocol. I would really hate to see this site deleted because two people can't get along. What happened to agree to disagree? There have been some things posted on this thread that maybe I don't agree with but I choose to ignore them. I do agree that we shouldn't post rumors about Taylor. We all know that she was a normal seventeen year old girl. She had faults; she wasn't perfect. Even IF she was running with a "rough crowd" or participating in risky behaviour she didn't deserve to be murdered. All I know about her was that she was a beautiful young lady (from hearing her friends talk about her it was beauty inside and out). I think somechick orginally posted something along the lines that possibly the "something highly illegal" might be drugs. I didn't know Taylor personally so I can't say that yes that's a possiblity or no, she would never do that. I do have a nineteen yr. old and a fifteen yr. old and have been suprised by some things I've learned about them.
Hopefully everyone has come to an understanding and got their anger out of their system and we can get back to what the site was created for.
We do need to keep in mind that Dorkette is a member of this site. To respect her and her daughter. She has said before that this site helps her. Let's put our pettiness aside for her sake.

[txstrace]

I agree Jace. Everyone needs to have respect and not make this personal.

[4MYGUYS]

Originally posted by jace
................ We do need to keep in mind that Dorkette is a member of this site. To respect her and her daughter. She has said before that this site helps her. Let's put our pettiness aside for her sake.

Which is only one of the reasons this statement is offensive to many. JMHO

Originally posted by somechick
...............If family and friends of Taylor or Fawley or Erin or whoever are reading, then they should be prepared to encounter points of view they disagree with or not browse at all; thus, I don't feel the need to censor myself. Welcome to the world wide web.

[somechick]

It's no secret that the Internet stretches the limits of "decency and decorum," thus I said: "welcome to the world wide web." So I pointed out that people sensitive to comments should be aware and not expect everyone on this board or any other board or chat room to censor themselves on the off-chance that "they" may be browsing. At the time of the quote 4myguys excerpted from one of my posts, it wasn't explicity known that Dorkette was a poster and who she was. I was responding to someone who said we should watch what we say just in case someone was reading. And that sounded silly to me, because there's always a risk of reading something that offends you and by participating in an open, anomynous chat you further open themselves up to that. You'll find that I have censored myself out of respect for Dorkette recently. Just because I haven't professed my allegiance with her, doesn't mean I'm anti-Janet or pro-BF. I don't know how many other ways to state that.

Veracity, please don't take my comments personally. I was actually trying to be helpful by saying there should be a do's and don'ts sticky. Some of the things I say are sarcastic (and yes I can be a smartA** as I'm sure you've picked up on), but that one was definitely not a post of spite. Newcomers have to learn the "rules" of this board by trial and error, a do's and don'ts sticky would make it easier for them. While of course there is always the golden rule, there are also forum practices that you've not-so-kindly pointed out to me like apparently we must have some proof/link for everything we say. Perhaps the sticky could be called "Emily's Post for the Web": chapter 1 ... "CAPITALIZATION and all its implications" (okay now the previous sentence is an example of my smartA** humor, and it was intended to be humorous, not rude. You write the chapter on CAPS, and I'll do the one on sarcasm and bad jokes).

"Even if she was running with a "rough crowd" or participating in risky behaviour she didn't deserve to be murdered."
True true, I've said that several times as well. I even said that a friend (actually former now) sprouted horns from her skull when she said otherwise (She was the friend of Jessie's I sourced). I've never said that any of the charges against BF should be taken lightly, and I never made light of Taylor's disappearance/death and the child pornography. I've already said how I like to look at things, not going to rehash that again.

[vedder]

Somechick,

Your ex friend who sprouted the devil horns made the statement"she had it coming to her"...correct?

Did you ever ask what that meant or WHY she had it coming to her???

I cannot see someone making a statement like that and you not asking" WHY" or "how do you know?".....etc...

[somechick]

Correct, that's what she said.

She had no grounds for saying what she said. Her reasoning behind her comment was the same as the reasoning crude people who think a girl deserves to be sexually harrassed based on her clothing. When I confronted her with that, she tried to dig herself out of that hole. She was completely sober and until then seemed reasonable. How anyone could think (and furthermore say) another person had something like being murdered coming to them, is beyond me. Sure, sometimes there's a cause/effect, but human nature requires hindsight to be 20/20, not foresight.

[barefoot]

I'm a 25-year-old high school teacher, and just wanted to add my two cents on the "highly illegal" subject. If one of my students were to tell me they had plans to do something highly illegal this weekend, no way in the world would I ask, "Really, what?" unless they sounded deadly serious. As a friend, I imagine Kevin wouldn't have questioned her; my general feeling is that if someone wants me to know more, they'll offer the information without me having to ask.

Also, I don't doubt that Taylor's friends and family thought the best of her; wouldn't we all, if something awful happened to a loved one? At the same time, my parents know that I've always been a pretty good kid and yet it's rare that any parent knows EVERYTHING their child has ever done. I made my share of mistakes involving marijuana, alcohol, dating, etc. in college, plenty of which would have shocked my high school friends or parents had they been aware at the time. Most college students routinely experiment with such things. For Taylor to have been experimenting and seeing herself as doing something "highly illegal" wouldn't have been unusual. (I was terrified when I drank my first beer at age 18, I absolutely thought I was doing something dreadfully illegal!)

[somechick]

barefoot, welcome to the board and excellent point made.

I agree most people would take the "highly illegal" comment as is and not ask follow-up questions, especially considering these are college students at a campus where "highly illegal" activities (like underage drinking) occur often, not unlike other colleges. Especially considering Kevin didn't know Taylor very well, I imagine his reaction would have been a puzzled, "ummm... okay" (in the scenario that she did say this to him). We, college students, can be an apathetic bunch.

[Kawaii]

Originally posted by somechick
barefoot, welcome to the board and excellent point made.

I agree most people would take the "highly illegal" comment as is and not ask follow-up questions, especially considering these are college students at a campus where "highly illegal" activities (like underage drinking) occur often, not unlike other colleges. Especially considering Kevin didn't know Taylor very well, I imagine his reaction would have been a puzzled, "ummm... okay" (in the scenario that she did say this to him). We, college students, can be an apathetic bunch.





Good post :)

[smedley]

Agreed, a lot of folks would not question the "illegal" part, but almost everyone would ask "When's your birthday?" or say "Happy Birthday" to the "Early Birthday Present" part of the supposed statement. That's what m