Richard Ramirez

[hissister]

nately; what you wrote about sociopaths makes so much sense. A long time ago one of my brothers had a friend whose name was Fred. Fred was at our home a lot. Just a very sweet young man; but he did have low self-esteem. After awhile Fred met a new friend; who was a Satanist (they met at a drinking party). Sometime after that Fred went on the road; traveling with his new friend. The Fred that came back from that road trip was not the same Fred that left. The first thing that everyone noticed was that Fred's voice had changed. His voice was gone, and the new voice was exactly that of his Satanist friend. Exactly! Fred's personality had also changed. He wasn't sweet anymore; he was sarcastic and rude;about everything. After awhile he somehow lost contact with his Satanist friend, and Fred sank into the worst depression and ended up committing suicide. My family and I grieved deeply over Fred's death. All of us felt a real, almost tangible black hole where Fred should have still been. I doubt that his Satanist friend even felt any loss when Fred died, because to him Fred was just another young person that he had influenced. I believe that people like this Satanist, Ramirez and others with this sociopath personality target people with low self-esteem. People who feel powerless and helpless in life. People who feel they have no real identity. People who need to feel important. It turns out that the Satanist had been abused when he was a young boy. I had always thought that this had much to do with why he became a Satanist; and why he had a need to feel so important, and looked upto in some way. But now after reading what you've written; it makes even more sense.

What I want to say about whether Ramirez was ever charged with raping children; is this. I have long said that I believe that every pedophile has more victims than is on their records. But the fact that these victims aren't on the records, means nothing. They were victims, but the pedophile was never charged for the crimes against them. Maybe because there was no proof or evidence; or those crimes were just not even linked to that pedophile. KFK has herself talked about how wrong it is when a priest or other clergy person molests children; but it's kept quiet by the church. The fact is; some victims are never known about for a variety of reasons. It could be that the victim himself or herself never spoke up about what happened to them, or the parents never spoke up if they were aware of what had happened to their child.
About Ramirez making his neice cover up her legs when she came to visit him in prison, so the other prisoners wouldn't see; that means nothing substantial. Look how many men there are who will target other young females; but would never do the same to their own daughter or another female in their family. It might come across as some kind of respect that Richard has for his neice; but this is coming from the mind of a man who has shown no regard for others. So, I don't believe it's "respect" that he has for his neice; it's just another part of Ramirez's twisted mentality. I'm glad that he made his neice cover up, because there are men in prison who would be looking at his neice inappropriately; but Richard did so much worse to other women, and YES; even to children.
How sad it is that Doreen might have felt the need to be a mother hen to Richard. There are women who feel that they have to do this and act like this; instead of being with a man that they don't have to be a motherly "hen" figure to. Doreen is an attractive woman; and she could have gotten a much better man. But instead she chased after a killer; whom she felt she had to be protective and supportive of. She could have still been a "mother hen" by not being in "relationship' with and marrying Richard. I personally am a very motherly type of woman; but I know I can do that without turning it into some kind of romantic involvement. She chose to act more like an immature young female ("Ooh, he's cute", "I like him" type of thing) when she could have chosen to correspond with him trying to make him see how awful the things he did were. Instead she defends him and act like she believes he's totally innocent of the things he's been charged with and imprisoned for. Totally delusional.

[hissister]

But of course Doreen would never have stood a chance with Richard if she had written to him trying to make him see how awful the things he did are. Richard responded to the ones who said things he wanted to hear. And supposedly one of the things that attracted him particularly to her was that she says she was a virgin. Why would a Satanist, a bloodthirsty murdurous, evil minded man like him have been so attracted to a virgin? Remember; again this is coming from the mind of someone like R.R. He could rape and molest; not knowing if he could be and was taking someone's virginity (yes, even some of his elderly female victims could have been virgins);
How mentally healthy is it that Doreen has said that when Richard is put to death; she'll kill herself? If she's such a clear thinking, strong person who knows what she is doing is right (standing by her "innocent" husband); why wouldn't she state that even after Richard's death; she'll continue to live on to defend his goodness and innocence? Makes it seem that Richard chose a woman who is not mentally well.
And don't you think that he is getting off on knowing that she has said she would kill herself after he is dead? He can't kill her himself; but it has to make him feel good that she will kill herself.
The way KFK has said that every religion thinks itself to be superior, they all think they are the right way and everyone else is wrong, it has always been this way; this is coming from someone who has stated that "Killing is killing; whether it be for duty, profit, or fun" (something that Ramirez has himself said). I would equate this attitude that killing for duty, profit, or fun to radical Islamists who kill for duty (to Allah); and for fun to people like Ramirez. Actually, the things that R.R. has done to people was to terrorize them while he was raping or sodomizing them. And terrorizing them while in the process of butchering and slaughtering them. A disturbed mind saying that "Killing is killing, whether it be for duty, profit, or fun" and then also saying that "every religion thinks it is superior, they all think they are the right way and everyone else is wrong, it has always been this way"; go figure that one out.
The only reason that I can think of that someone would not be afraid to live with R.R.; knowing that he is a brutal, cold-blooded killer; would be that they would feel safe because they think he wouldn't kill someone who is sympathic of him; someone who is supportive of him, and someone who will love him no matter what he has done or would do if he were a free man.

[hissister]

Right now I'm just thinking about all the people who were unfortunate enough to have had to see R.R.'s "bad side". You know; the ones he either sodomized, raped, or murdered. For these horrible crimes to be lightly attributed to R.R's bad side; is beyond me.
Every human being has a bad side. But normally when people talk about it; they're talking about things like the person may have a verbally cruel nature, or a physically abusive nature, things like that. But to say that R.R. vicious crimes were just the bad side of him; is crazy. It's not just the bad side of a man who was normally a kind, sweet person; it's who and what Richard Ramirez is. A vicious rapist, a vicious child sodomizer, a vicious murderer.
It's no surprise that his friends and family were shocked to find out what he was capable of doing; and what he did do. It would be shocking to any family. Jeffrey Dahmer's parents were shocked to find out what their son was capable of doing and did do. But Jeffrey Dahmer was still what he was; they just didn't know it before his arrest. Same with Ramirez. Of course these kinds of people aren't going to let their friends and families know what kind of person they really are. And they aren't going to let people like Doreen and KFK know either.
Pedophiles don't go around announcing to their friends and families that they like to victimize children. Serial rapists don't do that either, and neither do serial killers. That could possibly (and hopefully) lead to someone turning them in to the police. They put on a front to their families and friends. That includes the "friends" they make after they start serving the sentences for their crimes. And it includes any woman they correspond with.

[hissister]

Final thoughts before I'm off to bed. What I've concluded from what I've been reading about sociopaths like Ramirez is; in actuality they're really sniveling little weaklings inside. Feeling so inadequate, they have to do the most horrendous things they can come up with to make themselves feel powerful.
Kind of like adolescant school boys; the ones who try to act the toughest; to cover up their inadequacies.
Fits in so well with one of them needing a "mother hen".
Which, in turn makes women like Doreen feel important.

[nately]

Nately; I am so sorry I misunderstood. Please accept my apologies. I will write more later when I have more time; but I wanted to quickly apologize for misreading; thinking you were referring to Wind. Thank you for being so gracious when you saw that I had misunderstood.

Of course! No problem, hissister, really none. And thank you too for responding so graciously :)

My apologies for the somewhat late reply, had comp troubles today and will get back to your posts later (time to sleep for me). Take care.

[nately]

Final thoughts before I'm off to bed. What I've concluded from what I've been reading about sociopaths like Ramirez is; in actuality they're really sniveling little weaklings inside. Feeling so inadequate, they have to do the most horrendous things they can come up with to make themselves feel powerful.
Kind of like adolescant school boys; the ones who try to act the toughest; to cover up their inadequacies.
Fits in so well with one of them needing a "mother hen".
Which, in turn makes women like Doreen feel important.

This is so spot on!! You summed it up in a nutshell, really, hissister.
Motherhen > :chicken: LOL

[sharlock]

This is so spot on!! You summed it up in a nutshell, really, hissister.
Motherhen > :chicken: LOL
I've got to say that while I don't spend much time thinking about the women who choose serial killers as partners whenever I do hear about it I can never stop thinking about the children of some of these women who must feel so distressed that their own mum would choose a guy who is so sick and twisted they kill other people for personal gratification, over the children they birthed. That must be a really hard thing to stomach.:shrug:

[Riviera]

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[hissister]

Riviera; I want to thank you for reminding us to be careful. There has been a lot of emotional discussion on this thread; and a lot of it has been pretty harsh. I will be woman enough to admit that I have said a lot of those things myself. It's been difficult for me to deal with the fact that my little brother was murdered; and so I can so identify with others who have lost a family member to murder. And because I have always had to wonder what my little brother went through before he died; I identify with other victims. I identify very strongly with the victims and their families. Not only if the victim was a child at the time that they were molested or murdered; but because a parent's love for a child does not lessen as that child gets older or even reaches adulthood. And the love of a brother or sister or other family member doesn't lessen either.
I feel it is wrong for people to try to make someone like R.R. out to be not such a bad person. That deeply hurts the family members of not only one of his victims; but family members of those killed by someone else. And I can understand how it hurts even people who have not personally lost someone to murder; people who just have a heart for the victims and their families; and to people who have been or are currently in LE who have witnessed many horrible things because of violent crime.
I'm not trying to make excuses for anything that I have written; but I have to say that I have been trying to express what it feels like to lose someone you love to a murderer. And what it feels like when I hear someone try to defend a serial murderers "rights". It just hurts deeply.

Sharlock; you are right. Children. Children are so precious. It hurts when we think about children who have been hurt. We think about all the ways that they're hurt, and how wrong it is.
John Walsh wrote a book several years ago, called "Tears of Rage". And that is exactly what it feels like to cry when someone you love dearly and with all of your heart is murdered. The rage comes out in every one of those tears, no matter how much time has gone by. It always hurts to lose a family member, but when that precious life was brutally taken; there is a rage inside that never goes away.
I know your focus in your post was on the the children of mothers who have chosen a killer over them. And I agree with what you wrote. It has to be an extremely agonizing hurt for those children. They will grow up wondering everyday "Why"?

[hissister]

nately; I have a question about sociopaths. What is the best way to deal with them; to try to talk to them or to ignore them?
I'm thinking about a woman that I know who was the friend of a relative of mine. Would it be sociopathic behavior for a person who had pretended to be my relative's friend for over 10 years, to begin to display and voice intense jealousy over her best friend's marriage, and everything that my relative has? Even saying things like "All of this should have been mine"? Would it be sociopathic behavior for this woman to begin touching and hugging my relative's spouse (even for prolonged periods of time)? And when my relative tried repeatedly to explain to this "friend" how bad it hurt that she was doing this; this woman would completely deny doing anything wrong. And then within the last 3 years or so of the friendship when my relative began finding out from other people that this woman had always been jealous and wanted everything that my relative has ( the marriage, a home, a child, etc.); my relative began to wonder if the friendship had been a planned attempt all along for this woman to try to take her place and have everything that she was so jealous of.
My relative even tried distancing from this woman; but she kept coming back. Making statements like "We've been friends for too long, for little misunderstandings to get in the way". When my relative wouldn't take the woman's phone calls anymore, the woman would send e-mails or just pop up at the home.
Does this sound like a sociopath? And again, what is the best way to deal with a sociopath? Do they enjoy the problems they cause? Would they even go so far as to fake a friendship for so long in an attempt to try to take what they want from another person? Do they completely deny doing anything wrong? Do they refuse to be left out of the person's life that they've been trying so hard to destroy? Do they intentionally cause problems, so they can turn around and act like a victim, and like they're the one who has been wronged?

[wind149]

Riviera, Thank you and I am here to tell you that I did personally feel under attack and when that happens my training kicks in and if you notice I stopped posting altogether with KFK as I myself did not want to get banned and she is not worth it. Looking back a month or so on this thread, she had been baiting me from the start and I know last night's posting by me was harsh, but I am not going to apologize for my feelings, I saw for 6 1/2 years what others can to do each other and I absolutely loathe pedophiles and rapists and naturally, serial killers and I am not holding back my feelings and they are strong ones, you walks a mile in my boots, and while I only went to a few crime scenes, I did not have to, I got to see the crime scene photo's which right there if you do not have inner strength, you will lose it completely. This is why I knew that KFK did not belong here as anyone who has empathy for serial killers, rapists, and pedophiles are sick puppies and here I am posting to the normal people here, my experiences, how I tried to help people, I did not have an ideal childhood, but I rose about it so when freaks use that excuse that Mama beat him and Daddy dropped him on his head, like that is supposed to excuse the fact he raped six kids and he does not deserve jail time and just send him home with an ankle bracelet. This is a real life incident, this dirtbag I write about, raped six boys and got a walk. Everyone from the Sheriff down to the cleaning lady was totally out-raged, I remember I was typing up a eviction notice when we got the verdict from the court. I was so pissed, I threw the entire packet across the room, so disgusted with the judicial system. But of course, it did not take long for him to re-offend. Five months to be exact. His girlfriend did not have a clue he was a sex offender, even though he walked on the first charges, mental health factor is the reason the judge and jury agreed that he should be a mental hospital and then we find out that he only spent 60 days there as the moron doctor claimed that he was no longer a high risk and he was released!!! You talk about being ripped!!! And then here comes the fact he molested his girlfriend's son and luckily the kid had the gumption to call me as I took his call and I rolled everyone on it. Dirtbag was taken into custody and this time remanded and 4 months later was convicted and is now serving a 15-life sentence and I hope the baturd does every minute of it. When I listened to that poor child trying so hard to be brave, felt deeply ashamed like it was his fault and I held him and told him that no, it was not his fault and to forget that one and he was reluctant to talk to a male deputy so one of my girls came in and took it from there. I pray that boy has had no further problems and have been able to overcome it. So now you know why my postings to Kitty were so harsh and all of us were mad and it showed and now we can post happily again.

[hissister]

I do feel that KFK was intentionally trying to upset people here. I believe she was not only stating her true feelings and opinions; but doing so knowing that she was causing others here to feel angry and badly upset.
I don't personally feel that her feelings were hurt by our harsh replies; I think she enjoyed it. I just got the impression that she was trying to cause problems; and possibly hoping that she could get some good people here at CL banned.
I have to say that I feel stupid for allowing myself to be sucked in by her; and letting her get to me. But she had touched some very raw nerves with me, and I didn't have whatever it took to not give her the response that she was trying to get.

[wind149]

I figured her for a nut-job the first time she posted about how she thought it was cool that Scott Peterson has a web-site out there and I expressed my disgust and said how could anyone from CA condone that after what he did and nobody cared enough that their taxes go through the roof just so these scumbags can get married, as they in CA sit on death row roughly 20 years! What is the point of giving him a death sentence and have no intention of carrying out the sentence till everything is exhausted and that is my point. On death row cases, all the ones were it is a given the subject did the crime and that no other actors as we call them in LE are gonna take claim for the crime, there should be no appeals on their death sentence and I have been lobbying this one from here to the Legislature along with harsher sentences like death for pedophiles. You folks in TX rock, they don't rot too long in TX and they have an express lane and they USE it and all states should have the DP, and no appeals. Think of the justice families will get, and the tax dollars saved and prisons would not be over crowded. They need more SuperMax prisons which by no mean are they country clubs, in fact they look pretty bleak but who gives a crap? They put themselves out of society by their behavior and I have zero tolerance for people like that and this is why KFK and I got into the pissing contest we did. She is warped, but in her bamboozled head, she can have empathy for RR and Doreen. I would not be a bit surprised if someday she too, did something to get herself the 15 minutes of shame, like marry some other loser who kill somebody. She lives in Maine or so she says, but she seemed to know a lot about RR and me thinks she has a crush on him and probably his bridezilla and thank God she has been ousted. Oh gotta go my friend is here so later guys

[nately]

nately; I have a question about sociopaths. What is the best way to deal with them; to try to talk to them or to ignore them?

Hissister, best way to deal with sociopaths is ignore them. You cant go anywhere with them and you'll always end up hurt. One can try to maintain emotional distance/detachment and have some sort of 'relationship' with them in that way, but you will always pay the price for that and you will never get what YOU need. Basically since they are not 'human', you by definition cannot have any relationship with them, considering you/me/other non-sociopaths ARE human.


I'm thinking about a woman that I know who was the friend of a relative of mine. Would it be sociopathic behavior for a person who had pretended to be my relative's friend for over 10 years, to begin to display and voice intense jealousy over her best friend's marriage, and everything that my relative has? Even saying things like "All of this should have been mine"? Would it be sociopathic behavior for this woman to begin touching and hugging my relative's spouse (even for prolonged periods of time)? And when my relative tried repeatedly to explain to this "friend" how bad it hurt that she was doing this; this woman would completely deny doing anything wrong. And then within the last 3 years or so of the friendship when my relative began finding out from other people that this woman had always been jealous and wanted everything that my relative has ( the marriage, a home, a child, etc.); my relative began to wonder if the friendship had been a planned attempt all along for this woman to try to take her place and have everything that she was so jealous of.
My relative even tried distancing from this woman; but she kept coming back. Making statements like "We've been friends for too long, for little misunderstandings to get in the way". When my relative wouldn't take the woman's phone calls anymore, the woman would send e-mails or just pop up at the home.
Does this sound like a sociopath? And again, what is the best way to deal with a sociopath? Do they enjoy the problems they cause? Would they even go so far as to fake a friendship for so long in an attempt to try to take what they want from another person? Do they completely deny doing anything wrong? Do they refuse to be left out of the person's life that they've been trying so hard to destroy? Do they intentionally cause problems, so they can turn around and act like a victim, and like they're the one who has been wronged?

Im not sure this woman is a full sociopath, though she may display some traits.
Im more thinking of Borderline Personality Disorder. What I got about sociopathy (and narcissism) is that when someone doesn't want to be with them, they are relatively untouched by it and will move onto someone else, easily. This woman does not. It is more fitting borderline PD in that she cannot stay away, comes back and is clingy.
Her faking the friendship for so long to try to take from your relative what she wanted and having started that friendship only wanting to take over your relatives life, really is quite mindblowing to even think about! That really does sound sociopathic to me. Maybe this woman has a mix of several PD's.

A behavior that occurs in all cluster B PD's (Borderline, Histrionic, Narcissistic and Antisocial) is that they indeed all intentionally cause problems and will ALWAYS blame the other party for the cause of the problems and the PD can then be the victim/the one wronged. It is classic for any Cluster B PD to do that!
They also completely deny they did do anything wrong, also a characteristic of a Cluster B PD (=Personality Disorder). They are ALWAYS right and are perfect and don't make any mistakes. If they do, it is someone elses fault, always. They will refuse to take responsibility for anything, unless they can get something out of it, for their own benefit. Play mindgames, play games with reality.

I think if your relative repeatedly has indicated to this friend to go away and the friend refused, your relative could ask for an RO, as this persons repeatedly ignoring your relatives boundaries is harrassment, also her unwanted touching of your relatives partner falls under harrassment, me thinks.

I think this woman definitely has some serious personality issues and I would look into those Cluster B PD's to get a more exact label, if you want that.

In the end it doesnt really matter though, as this woman should be ignored completely and that is recommended with any Cluster B PD.

Hope I was of help. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. And if new stuff pops up in mind, I will let you know.

On a certain site there is all kinds of info on different personality disorders, also forums, but I read Im not allowed to give links to other forums (correct?).
I can PM the link if you want. You can also google, of course.
Take care :patriot:

[hissister]

Wind; you're so right that hardened, vicious criminals have put themselves out of society by the crimes they freely chose to commit. That's what prisons are for; to keep them away from society.

nately; thank you. I had written that I wanted to ask you a (as in one) question) about sociopaths; but I ended up asking a whole lot more than one.
It is mindblowing. When my relative started telling me the things that had been going on with this woman; I was taken aback. I had met this woman and had been to get togethers with my family (with this woman being invited because her and my relative had actually been as close as sisters). At least my relative thought their friendship was that close.
This woman had even made comments that she had a "right" to be as close to my relative's spouse as my relative did; because they were such good friends, and she had known my relative's spouse as long as my relative has. This woman cannot see healthy boundaries. You have been a huge help, and I appreciate it.
It sounds to me like a lot of criminals, including pedophiles can in actuality be one of these Cluster B PD's. The way they can victimize and then act like the one who has been (or is being) wronged. The way so many of them act like they don't deserve the sentences they receive for their crimes.
I would appreciate it if you would PM me the link for more info on personality disorders.
And it would make sense that the people who defend criminals more than the victims would fall under the category of some sort of Cluster B PD's also.

[Kate-Sawyer]

I've got to say that while I don't spend much time thinking about the women who choose serial killers as partners whenever I do hear about it I can never stop thinking about the children of some of these women who must feel so distressed that their own mum would choose a guy who is so sick and twisted they kill other people for personal gratification, over the children they birthed. That must be a really hard thing to stomach.:shrug:
Sharlock,
You hit the nail on the head!! There are so many victims of these people, it doesn't stop when they are arrested and how these women can bring this kind of attention to their families is beyond me!!

Also a thought, if I were married to RR and were so in love with him and believed him to be innocent or repentant, I would think that I wouldn't give a stuff about what other people posted on an internet site and I wouldn't try and defend him or draw attention to myself, so it seems to me that (sorry to point out the obvious) some very sad and lonely people want attention no matter what kind of attention it is...... (If you truly love someone, why do you care what anyone else thinks? and why engage people in conversations which you know you can make no difference!!)

[nately]

It sounds to me like a lot of criminals, including pedophiles can in actuality be one of these Cluster B PD's. The way they can victimize and then act like the one who has been (or is being) wronged. The way so many of them act like they don't deserve the sentences they receive for their crimes.
I would appreciate it if you would PM me the link for more info on personality disorders.
And it would make sense that the people who defend criminals more than the victims would fall under the category of some sort of Cluster B PD's also.

I sent you a PM. I agree with you that a lot of criminals including pedophiles could be suffering from a cluster B PD. Also, and I hadn't even thought of that before, it makes a lot of sense that the people that defend them (more than the victims) fall in that category, too. I mean one obviously thinks something is wrong when the criminal gets defended over the harm they caused, but it never crossed my mind they could be suffering a PD as well! Thanks for that.
And, I should have added 'IMO' in my previous post about the PD's as what I wrote, was my opinion, not fact.
Anyway, glad to have been of help!

[sharlock]

Is Kitty back I wonder????

[hissister]

nately; that is one of the first thoughts that I had (that pedophiles could be PD's. and the people who defend criminals could also be). I've never been able to figure out how anyone could feel sympathy for these criminals; but after reading what you've written about PD's; it all started to make more sense.

Kate-Sawyer; I agree with you completely.

Retribution; all I can say is WOW. I know others here have had much to say about Doreen; but what you've written is full of hate. Why such hate for Doreen? It's understandable for one to hate Richard, but why would your hatred be aimed more at Doreen than the murderer that she married?

[wind149]

Me thinks KFK is back and even more delusional than she was, I truly think she has it bad for RR and while I thought she had a thing for Doreen too, now I am not so sure. This woman if it is KFK should not be allowed to post these messages of hate. I was abundantly clear on my feelings about RR, like I would not even feed him never mind let him get married and I think he should have been executed a long time ago. Or we can do what we were doing, don't feed the trolls.:cool:

[Tangerine]

yeah, i think thats her, too. and wind, youre right; with a name like retribution she's getting more delusional

[wind149]

Somebody should give a heads up to Freshwater, gee I can do that! We don't need whack-jobs on these boards, we don't need ped lovers, or death row groupies. I am busy right now guys but I will post more about this later.

[Riviera]

Do you all see that little white triangle outlined in red in the upper right hand corner of a post? This is the, "report a post option". It's there for situations like this. Once you report the post I can get here quicker to take care of the problem.


Thank you
Riviera

[wind149]

Thanks Riviera, since I am new to the boards I had no clue other than to PM and now that I know that you too are administration so to speak, we will direct disturbing posts to you. I do think that retribution is Kung Fu Kitty, and clearly, she needs help to the point where if she was in my state, I would call the authorities because she is such a whack-job, and I am afraid for the simple reason, she claims to work at a nursing home, and I this is why I am afraid, for the patients. No nursing home is going to keep a death row groupie working there, in fact, no job will! She said she was from Maine and I don't know if that is the truth or not, and since she is such a nut-job and clearly has it in for us, she will keep popping up, as she is over the edge and knows way too much about RR, not that I care, but you read her posts, we are concerned and had been for the last week, so thank you again.

[Kate-Sawyer]

Do you all see that little white triangle outlined in red in the upper right hand corner of a post? This is the, "report a post option". It's there for situations like this. Once you report the post I can get here quicker to take care of the problem.


Thank you
Riviera

Thanks all, it doesn't take long to get caught up around here, it's funny because whoever that was actually wrote something coherant on another subject that I started..... perhaps shes spent a little too much time in the dark or something..

[Tangerine]

Thanks all, it doesn't take long to get caught up around here, it's funny because whoever that was actually wrote something coherant on another subject that I started..... perhaps shes spent a little too much time in the dark or something..

i was thinking that, too, kate. the post on the AC thread was a normal one. i wish she was like that all the time; if she was, i would like to hear what she had to say.

[Riviera]

Thanks Riviera, since I am new to the boards I had no clue other than to PM and now that I know that you too are administration so to speak, we will direct disturbing posts to you. I do think that retribution is Kung Fu Kitty, and clearly, she needs help to the point where if she was in my state, I would call the authorities because she is such a whack-job, and I am afraid for the simple reason, she claims to work at a nursing home, and I this is why I am afraid, for the patients. No nursing home is going to keep a death row groupie working there, in fact, no job will! She said she was from Maine and I don't know if that is the truth or not, and since she is such a nut-job and clearly has it in for us, she will keep popping up, as she is over the edge and knows way too much about RR, not that I care, but you read her posts, we are concerned and had been for the last week, so thank you again.

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Let's get back on topic -----> Richard Ramirez

Thank you
Riviera

[hissister]

Does anyone know if R.R. started out by abusing or killing animals? I know Jeffrey Dahmer did. I've heard how a lot of serial killers did start out by killing animals.

[hissister]

Just minutes after I posted my question about whether Ramirez was known to have abused or killed animals; I realized something. He's a Satanist; of course he killed animals.
That's all freaky stuff to me. Where my sister lives; there's a mobile home (trailer) next to them. In the mobile home park where she lives, the owners somtimes buy trailers and move them onto the lots for renters to rent. People who live there like to check out the newly moved in trailers. A couple of years ago, my sister (with her husband and son) went to check out a mobile home that was moved in right next to hers; and what they saw in that trailer was pretty scary. There was a pentagram painted on the kitchen floor; and on one of the doorways there were claw marks. It's frightening and disgusting to think of what went on in that trailer at some time in the past; by whoever had owned (or maybe rented it) before it was bought by the mobile home park owners. That trailer still sits right next door to my sister's trailer.

[Shelley420]

Oh yeah, he was out in the desert killing (hunting) animals from a pretty young age. His cousin Mike didn't help much, supposedly showing him how to kill more efficiently. I don't think he was into Satinism back then though...

He was desensitized to violence from an early age. His father was a brutal child basher who would bash the crap out of his sons when they did wrong. Richard's father's father did the same to his son, so I guess being violent ran in the family. His cousin shot and killed his wife in cold blood right in front of Richard when he was a young teenager and would show him photos of when he was in the Vietnam war of decapitated women that he had killed.

On top of all this birth defects were very common at the time in the area they lived due to fallout from nuclear testing. A couple of Richard's brothers had birth defects and medical problems, one of them has a severe bone disorder. Plus Richard's mother was poisoned on a daily basis when she was pregnant with him at a boot factory, standing all day long in a room full of fumes with no ventilation. He also had two very severe head injuries as a child.

How to make a serial killer? Well this all gave him a damn good start!!

[hissister]

It certainly was a very sad beginning for Richard; and others in his family.
I live in El Paso (I've read that Richard was born here); and I know that life in this city can be extremely rough; for far too many people.
I still feel no sympathy for Richard. I think it's sad that so many things beyond a person's control can start them on such a vicious path in life; but someone in his family should have recognized that the patterns of abuse, on top of his head injuries and everything else; were affecting him. I don't know how the level and access to mental health would have been back when Richard was born; and to those who couldn't afford to pay for it (if his family fell under that category); but nowadays there is lots of help here for those who need it.
And I'm sure Richard himself had to have known that he was not heading in a good direction; and if he wanted to; he could have at least tried to get the help he desperately needed.
I did read about his cousin who had shown him pictures of the young Vietnamese woman he had raped and then shown Richard pictures of her after she had been decapitated. In my opinion, his cousin should still be held accountable for that.

[Tangerine]

hey sis. i was reading your posts above and i wanted to add something, if i may. most satanists do not kill, maim, or do things that most ppl would consider evil. satanism is really about immediate gratification, about hedonism, not neccessarily, killing and hurting others. so to say that of course RR killed animals because he is a satanist isnt really fair. i'm not saying that there are not some satanists who take it to that level (obviously there are), i'm just saying that to a satanist the most important thing is pleasuring oneself which most of the time does not include killing or abusing others.

[hissister]

Tangerine; I do apologize. I was just thinking how I've heard that part of Satanism is animal sacrifice. I did know that Satanism is all about immediate satisfaction and living to please oneself. So, I guess if a Satanist does (or did, in Richard's case) sacrifice animals; it would only be if that Satanist took personal pleasure in doing that.
I stand corrected; and thank you.

[Tangerine]

sis, i find it interesting that alot, if not most, satanists do not even believe that satan exists. i looked it up on belief.net to clarify somethings for myself. it said that they call themselves satanists because satan is greek for adversary and they are against religious beliefs as a whole.

i know we all agree that rr does not love doreen. and after i re-read the CL story on him, i started wondering, "what was it about doreen that made him marry her?" i know that it says she is a virgin and he was attracted to that, but i think he must have been able to use her for something that he couldnt get from any other groupie. i was surprised to see that her iq is 156 and she still cant see him for what he really is.

[redwarrior]

Hey, this thread is an intriguing read by the way. I see KFK has been banned. I was thinking about religion and the chruch of satan. After my stroll on you tube wathing the A&E documentary on RR. I bought the book The Night Stalker and I am beginning to read it. I also went to the Church of Satan website to read what their members post on their forums. Idk, why I am all of a sudden interested in learning about RR. I guess it's because I pray alot, and even though I listen to what some may deem as the devil's music. I was listening to AC/DC's Highway to Hell and the thought of RR entered my mind. I guess I am wondering at this point, hypothetically what the reaction be if RR were to by divine intervention embrace the one Satan opposes? Would he accept responsibility for his heinous crimes then? My wordly eyes tell me he is a man condemned to die. Although spiritually God will forgive him; man won't-eye for an eye.

By the way, great information on the psychological behaviors posted by nately and hissister.

[hissister]

Tangerine; I didn't even know that there are Satanists who don't even believe that Satan exists.
I'm thinking about the Satanist that Fred (who I wrote about in an earlier post) had gone on the road trip with. This Satanist told everyone that he was a Satanic priest. Once before Fred's death; this Satanist was in prison (I don't know what crime he had been sentenced for). He had told people that he wanted to write to me while he was in prison. I know the reason for that was because he knew that I was a Christian, and I think he wanted to try to "convert" me. In his letters to me he would write parts of the Satanic bible; so I could read it. I can hardly remember anything that was in what he wrote from the Satanic bible; but I do remember that one part he sent me was how Satan was telling his version of the "creation", and how God was jeolous of him, etc. So I think that this Satanist did believe that Satan is real. He was always talking about Satan.
It does make one ponder why R.R. chose to marry Doreen. I do agree that there had to be something he felt he could use her for; that he couldn't with any others. Could he have been aware of her I.Q.? Could he have thought that it would look good for him to marry a woman with such a high I.Q.? That somehow having a very intelligent woman believing in his innocence could make others also believe it? I do think there is a reason he chose a virgin. Maybe that was part of the good image that Doreen could give of him to others.

Hi redwarrior. Like you, I've wondered what would happen if R.R. were to ever embrace God. I think, if he ever did; that would be the only way he'll accept responsibility for his crimes.

[sallynuts]

Thank you Tangerine.

Kung Fu Kitty; Richard Ramirez "chose" Doreen because she's gullible. Any trust that he might have in her; is that she will stand by him no matter what.
Your statement that compassion and mercy should be available to everyone: it's God that extends compassion and mercy; if people are remorsefull and sorry for the bad that they've done. In the human world there is punishment for crimes commimtted against others. I don't believe that serial killers should be granted the right to have a mate and a chance for a romantic involvement with people outside of the prison after they've been imprisoned. They've taken the life of others. They're robbed their victims of romantic involvements; family relationships, their whole entire future.
Mother Theresa lived among people living in poverty; and among people with leprosy. If she had given her life to working with serial killers, she would not have included being romantically involved with one of them. She gave self-lessly; she didn't do what she did to get anything or anyone in return.
You've not heard me mention wanting to kill Richard Ramirez. I'm not foaming at the mouth for him to die. I do however believe that he should serve out the remainer of his sentence without any priveledges.
Bloodthirsty? Richard Ramirez is the one who was bloodthirsty. The only thing that saved others from being murdered by him; was him being arrested and imprisoned. People loathe him because of what he is. A murdering, slaughtering, butchering, evil, cold-blooded, cold-hearted evil person. You can call that judging him if you wish; but we can't overlook what he's done to so many people. God can forgive him, if Richard chooses to be sorry for his evil. But if he doesn't, then God won't even extend compassion and mercy to him.
What is a good person anyway? No, it's not being a Christian, it's not going to college, it's not any of the things you wrote. It all starts with our hearts; what is in our hearts. Good or evil.
John Wayne Gacy and Scott Peterson are not good men or "real catches" either.
It is wrong that when priests or other clergy men molest children; that the churches try to keep it quiet; and even just move them to another place where they can again, molest children. That they try to cover up the crimes committed against children.
As far as Americans hating Iraqis; not all of them do. Most of us can believe just like with any other country and culture; there are good people there. Just like not ALL Iraqis hate Americans and think Americans are evil.

:punch:

You said that so well.... thank you.... from me and all of those not able to say it... :beer:

[hissister]

Thank you sallynuts. I just write what my heart feels. I do believe in right and wrong; good and evil. There is a huge difference between right and wrong and good and evil. I can read and learn about things like personality disorders; and how having one of them can so affect one's thinking and even reality. But I still don't really get how people cannot see the difference between right and wrong. I think they do; but they choose to ignore their consious.

[Tangerine]

hi redwarrior. welcome to this site and to our lively little thread! i think its good that you are intereted in learning about rr; i think the more we learn about ppl like him the better we can protect ourselves them.

sis, did you ever actually receive any letters from that guy? thats kinda scary.

another thing, i was wondering about rr's cousin mike. he obviously had alot of problems. did all of his homicidal urges come from being in vietnam, or did he witness things as a child? i guess im wondering if rr had an uncle who may have been violent and influenced mike.

[hissister]

Tangerine, I agree with what you said to redwarrior; the more we learn about people like Ramirez; the better we can protect ourselves. One of my hopes is that the more that is learned about people like him and other serial killers, is that there will be more and more advance warning that someone is heading in a disturbed mental direction; and that help is available for them before they get to the point of starting to harm others and start killing people. And before they start abusing or killing animals. But one of the problems is that many times, when a parent or other family member is aware of a problem in a child; if that child is over the age of 16 or so; they cannot be treated against their will or consent because they're considered to be adults.

Yes, I did receive several letters from that Satanist while he was in prison. This was way back around 1976 or '77, and I had gotten rid of those letters not long after receiving them. That's why I can barely remember anything he had written quoting the Satanic bible. Never did find out what happened to him; or what he was in prison for ( I never asked him). I can't even remember if I stopped writing to him, or if he chose to stop writing to me; since I was letting him know that since I believe Satan to be the father of all lies; that the Satanic bible is a lie. He didn't want to hear about God or Christian beliefs at all.

Those are good points you brought up about R.R.'s cousin. It would be interesting to know if he had problems before he was sent to Vietnam. I do know that during the Vietnam war; there was a lot of drug usage going on by our Soldiers, etc. So many of them came back home addicts. I also wonder if R.R.'s cousin was a violent man before he went to Vietnam or if it started due to him being in Vietnam; or possibly due to his using some type of drug while there.

[Jezebel]

I don't care waht people now think about me or not, but I'm very Happy that Richi is still alive.

[diamond d]

What? is this scum bag, low life piece of trash still alive? Gosh how long is this satan going to live anyways?

[Jezebel]

Oh yeah he is still alive,and he is ok.

And I hope that he's staying Alive for many Years.

[diamond d]

Jezebel

You’re a lost soul and your words are meaningless. There is nothing romantic or majestic about your plight, it’s sad and misdirected. If your only purpose is to fill this board and threat with cries of salvation for Richard your words fall upon deaf ears and closed hearts. There may be a certain degree of forgiveness for Richard but I assure there is not an ounce of mercy. Galatians 6:7 says, “A man reaps what he sows” (harvests what he plants, gets what he deserves).

[sharlock]

Oh yeah he is still alive,and he is ok.

And I hope that he's staying Alive for many Years.

Hi Jezebel,
please feel free not to answer if this question is to personal but I wondered whether your concern for Richard extends to his victims and if you have feelings for Richard or is this more that you disagree with the death penalty (as I do?)?

[Jezebel]

@ Sharlock

yes I have feelings for Richard and yes I love him.

[Kate-Sawyer]

Jezebel

You’re a lost soul and your words are meaningless. There is nothing romantic or majestic about your plight, it’s sad and misdirected. If your only purpose is to fill this board and threat with cries of salvation for Richard your words fall upon deaf ears and closed hearts. There may be a certain degree of forgiveness for Richard but I assure there is not an ounce of mercy. Galatians 6:7 says, “A man reaps what he sows” (harvests what he plants, gets what he deserves).

Well Said!!! Thank you!!

[Jezebel]

Well i know that I'm a lost soul thank you very much.
And yeah I 'm too disagree with the death penalty.
(Richard is still a Human being!!!!!!!!!!)

[sharlock]

Well i know that I'm a lost soul thank you very much.
And yeah I 'm too disagree with the death penalty.
(Richard is still a Human being!!!!!!!!!!)
Seeings as you didn't take offense to my question I wondered if you could tell me just what you love about Richard? I've got to say that I just can't fathom it?

[diamond d]

Seeings as you didn't take offense to my question I wondered if you could tell me just what you love about Richard? I've got to say that I just can't fathom it?


Sharlock

You must realize you can not ask a person to logically explain illogical feelings. This woman does not love (to love is to act intentionally, in sympathetic response to others, to promote overall well-being, to mutually respect the wants and needs of others), richard she has infatuation for him. Infatuation is the state of being completely carried away by unreasoning passion or love; a type of addictive love. Infatuation usually occurs at the beginning of a relationship but can extend as long as there is minimal reciprocation by the other party. It is characterized by urgency, intensity, sexual desire, and or anxiety, in which there is an extreme absorption in another. The fantasy of being with the person as opposed to actually being with that individual. It's about reason Vs Emotion; Our emotions are visceral reactions which occur outside reasoned deliberation. Is it therefore not possible or reasonable to evaluate emotional reactions against standards of reason? No - emotions can be evaluated because they are conditioned by our assumptions, beliefs, and culture. Emotional reactions may not be planned in advance, but they aren't inevitable or unavoidable. Hope this helps ...

[sharlock]

Sharlock

You must realize you can not ask a person to logically explain illogical feelings. This woman does not love (to love is to act intentionally, in sympathetic response to others, to promote overall well-being, to mutually respect the wants and needs of others), richard she has infatuation for him. Infatuation is the state of being completely carried away by unreasoning passion or love; a type of addictive love. Infatuation usually occurs at the beginning of a relationship but can extend as long as there is minimal reciprocation by the other party. It is characterized by urgency, intensity, sexual desire, and or anxiety, in which there is an extreme absorption in another. The fantasy of being with the person as opposed to actually being with that individual. It's about reason Vs Emotion; Our emotions are visceral reactions which occur outside reasoned deliberation. Is it therefore not possible or reasonable to evaluate emotional reactions against standards of reason? No - emotions can be evaluated because they are conditioned by our assumptions, beliefs, and culture. Emotional reactions may not be planned in advance, but they aren't inevitable or unavoidable. Hope this helps ...
Wow! I love your insight Diamond D.

[diamond d]

Thanks, just trying to bring some perspective

[sharlock]

Thanks, just trying to bring some perspective
Have you done research into the phenomenon? I love the way you described your insights, very well thought out!:seeya:

[lisaznola]

Blaming Richard's supposed deep interest into Satanism for him being what he is is actually unfair to Satainists.
Richard's interest seems to be more of the 'heavy metal / sex, drugs, rock and roll' kind than a true religious belief, at least at the time of his killings. I doubt that he ever studied any version of Satanism in any true way. (Again, at least before he was arrested.)
Today, most Satanists are "Modern Satanists". They, over-all, don't believe in Satan or God. The word Satan meaning adversary, the main adversary to the Xtain (Christian) Church / ideas being a life system of non belief. It is more of an atheistic belief system. They do NOT believe in sacrificing animals.
The other main branch of Satanism is Luciferianism, which does believe in God, Gods, Goddesses, Angels and so on. Again, though, it is not what you might think. Some of the branches of this belief believe that the Angels fell FOR a desire to be with Man, and that they are basically demonised for wanting to be with man. Others believe that The Fallen Angels fell due to a War in Heaven between Old Gods, that all the Fallen Angels are just Old Gods/ Goddesses that have been rejected by man (commonly). There are other branches that have beliefs that fall somewhere between or around these, but these are the basics to the most common ones.
BESIDES the whole Slayer / Grim Reaper I am to cool so I must be evil : sex drugs rock and roll thing. :rolleyes: I have yet to meet anyone who engages in true religious practices that follow some Evil idea that it is good to hurt others for no reason, or that it is a good thing to be out of control and just mean, or that to hurt and tourture animals, or people, is a way to get to heaven/hell.
People who REALLY follow the Left Hand Path are usually very normal people with families and jobs and mortgages and all that. Heck, most even wear shirts that aren't black tee shirts. :biggrin:
Satanism no more pushed Richard into being a serial killer anymore than The Holy Bible pushed Manson (or any of the many others who claim Biblical Inspiration) into becoming what he and the others around him became.
I can even remember a crime scene photo from one of Richard's brutal murder scenes where he drew a pentagram. Problem is, he drew a pentagram that is used in Wiccan (Earth based religion, like in the movie the Craft) rites. The Satanic symbol is different.

Wow, not the best way to introduce myself, a lecture on Dark Arts.....
But, um. Hi. :seeya:

Lisa.

(really, not as scarry as this might make me seem.)

[sharlock]

Hi lisaznola,
I disagree and think your well thought out and informative post was a very good intro for you. It is interesting to hear Satanism described in the same manner that I thought of Atheism as I the word Satan I think brings up images and imposes perhaps unfair connotations on just what Satanism is. I for one though never thought that it was the satanism that made Richard become a killer but more his unfortunate upbringing and complete lack of empathy for others.

[Just Ice]

Executions have been on hold for a while. Ramirez slipped by, with all the arguments about potential pain in the Lethal Injection method. But not for much longer. The State, however, may elect to let his health condition carry out the sentence.

Here are a few excerpts from articles relating to this matter:

January 2008 The year 2007 ended with a total of 42 executions in the U.S., the lowest in 13 years. With an unofficial moratorium in the U.S. since September 2007 while awaiting a decision by the U.S. Supreme Court on the constitutionality of the lethal injection method of punishment, no executions have taken place since September 25 in Texas.

By MARK SHERMAN, Associated Press Writer
Wed Apr 16, 7:18 PM ET

WASHINGTON - U.S. executions are all but sure to resume soon after a nationwide halt, cleared Wednesday by a splintered Supreme Court that approved the most widely used method of lethal injection.

Virginia immediately lifted its moratorium; Oklahoma and Mississippi said they would seek execution dates for convicted murderers, and other states were ready to follow after nearly seven months without an execution in the United States.

Fayette County Commonwealth Attorney Ray Larson, who prosecuted Bowling in 1992, said after the ruling: "Fact of the matter is, this lethal injection process is about as far from cruel and unusual as anything you can imagine. This is just another one of those things the anti-death penalty gang is throwing against the wall to see what sticks."

[Dave Reddoch]

I would like to write to him, but I do not have his mailing address or hi prisoner ID number.

Dave.:shrug:

[Drumbum]

I would like to write to him, but I do not have his mailing address or hi prisoner ID number.

Dave.:shrug:

See if you can get it from Doreen.

[grneyes]

To those of you that do write to Ramirez and the like, what do you say to them? Do you ask them why they did what they did? Or just try to get a conversation going to get a look into their minds?

[Dave Reddoch]

I would be interested in seeing what his thought process is. Does anyone have Doreen's e-mail address? Mine is reddoch.dave@gmail.com

[grneyes]

Thanks for replying. I can understand wanting to know what makes them tic but then in a way, I think I might be scared of what I might find out. *lol*

[SaraSidle]

Thanks for replying. I can understand wanting to know what makes them tic but then in a way, I think I might be scared of what I might find out. *lol*

I am definitely to afraid and I read the book about him. Do not want to know. If there was a reason to believe anyone is evil.........IMHO

[Drumbum]

Dave- Doreen posted in this thread waay back. I'll see if I can find it.

[Dave Reddoch]

You can click on contact, but it does not have her e-mail address. The contact is through this web-site.

Dave.

[Dave Reddoch]

He has spent a really long time on death row. Knowing my luck, they would execute me within a few weeks! lol. I wonder if the victim's families are allowed to say anything during his appeals. Doreen, if you read this, I would like to write Richard, but I don't have his info. My e-mail is reddoch.dave@gmail.com.
Dave.:shrug:

[Reckless]

He has spent a really long time on death row. Knowing my luck, they would execute me within a few weeks! lol. I wonder if the victim's families are allowed to say anything during his appeals. Doreen, if you read this, I would like to write Richard, but I don't have his info. My e-mail is reddoch.dave@gmail.com.
Dave.:shrug:

I'm not Doreen, but here's the address (I just googled it):
Prison Address:
Richard Ramirez
# E 37101 /
San Quentin State Prison (SQ)

San Quentin, CA 94974

You can look up any inmate here:
http://www.prisonerlife.com/index.cfm

The site gives you tips on how to be pen pal with a convicted murderer if that's what you are looking for.

[Dave Reddoch]

Who knows. maybe I can get him to respond.

[SaraSidle]

Who knows. maybe I can get him to respond.

Keep us updated please. Could be interesting.

[Dave Reddoch]

I will of course let you guys know if I get a response. I used to write to Elmer Wayne Henley, so I have some experience with these types.

reddoch.dave@gmail.com

[SaraSidle]

I will of course let you guys know if I get a response. I used to write to Elmer Wayne Henley, so I have some experience with these types.

reddoch.dave@gmail.com

I have never heard of Elmer Wayne Henley

[Dave Reddoch]

He was involved with the candy man in Houston back in the early 1970's. (the candy man being Dean Corll):seeya:

[SaraSidle]

He was involved with the candy man in Houston back in the early 1970's. (the candy man being Dean Corll):seeya:

Thanks Dave. That is exactly what I was going to do. Usually I know names even if I do not know details and that threw me off.

[SaraSidle]

He was involved with the candy man in Houston back in the early 1970's. (the candy man being Dean Corll):seeya:

Wow You can really see where Gacy got it from. thanks Dave

[Dave Reddoch]

:shrug: I should have been a shrink. I just want to know why these people think this way. They just seem to be wired differently. Sara? How did you decide to use this particular pen name?(sarasidle)

[SaraSidle]

:shrug: I should have been a shrink. I just want to know why these people think this way. They just seem to be wired differently. Sara? How did you decide to use this particular pen name?(sarasidle)

Well it is simple Dave. CSI Las Vegas is my favorite show and Sara Sidle in my opinion is the best CSI of the lot. Of course she left the show but I liked her character. Very detailed. I always wanted to be a foresic psychiatrist. I got as far as MSW and then ran out of money. I always wanted to know why serials did what they did. Ramirez is kind of one of a kind from what I have read. So immoral in his attacks. I read the book I think it is called Night Stalker and it chilled me more than any other serial I have ever read about. He started out as a nice boy and started in with a brother or cousin that was immoral and he went downhill from there.

[Dave Reddoch]

It was either on Art Bell or George Norry. They claim Ramirez did a leap while running from a crime scene that was not even humanly possible. Richard explained it that he was on the "hunt" and on a different level than us "normal" folks. Really creepy.:seeya:

[SaraSidle]

It was either on Art Bell or George Norry. They claim Ramirez did a leap while running from a crime scene that was not even humanly possible. Richard explained it that he was on the "hunt" and on a different level than us "normal" folks. Really creepy.:seeya:

I did not hear that story but it does not surprise me. He climbed in open windows for his attacks and sometimes overpowered and killed more that one at a time!

[Dave Reddoch]

I have had (urges) to cuss out my ex-wife, but no (urge) could ever make me do what he did! lol. Any theories as to why he did that?

[SaraSidle]

I have had (urges) to cuss out my ex-wife, but no (urge) could ever make me do what he did! lol. Any theories as to why he did that?

See that is the part I find eerie. He would basically blitzkrieg his victims in a very sadistic manner. It is almost like he went beyond psycopath into evil. And he was organized to the point where he stole a car for each one and never got caught. I also think he picked out the house earlier. And there were so many unlocked windows!!!!!!!!!!!! IMHO

[Dave Reddoch]

You should meet me at a chat room. It would be better right?:shrug:

[Dave Reddoch]

Let me know?

[SaraSidle]

Let me know?

I will check it out. You make me want to refresh and read the book now. It has been 2 years since I read it.

[Dave Reddoch]

If you happen to get set up with that chat room I mentioned, I would enjoy talking with you there.
As for the book you mentioned, I'll go ahead and try to find a copy.

Dave.

reddoch.dave@gmail.com

[SaraSidle]

If you happen to get set up with that chat room I mentioned, I would enjoy talking with you there.
As for the book you mentioned, I'll go ahead and try to find a copy.

Dave.

reddoch.dave@gmail.com

I signed up and I am waiting for an email to verify my membership. I am using the same nic. Let me check the title of the book before you do. I will let you know the name in an email tomorrow.

[Dave Reddoch]

We can just go into the main chat, and I know how to private chat from there.

Dave.:seeya:

[SaraSidle]

We can just go into the main chat, and I know how to private chat from there.

Dave.:seeya:

Okay sounds like a plan

[SaraSidle]

I was right. It is called the Night Stalker by Philip Carlo. It is in paperback. I am going to reread it so my mind is refreshed. I have not received amd email yet about that website.

[Dave Reddoch]

Let me know when you want to meet. reddoch.dave@gmail.com:seeya:

[SaraSidle]

okay. I think you will like the book. I feel it is pretty factual

[bks]

After I finished laughing at THAT one, I asked Richard if he DID have something under his right armpit that I didn't know about, and after HE finished laughing, he said that was the most ridiculous thing he'd ever heard.

I would have said, "Epithelial cells". "Epithelial cells, and more epithelial cells."

I couldn't resist saying that. ; )

[SaraSidle]

I would have said, "Epithelial cells". "Epithelial cells, and more epithelial cells."

I couldn't resist saying that. ; )


Nice answer

[Dave Reddoch]

could not resist! lol:shrug:

[bks]

cute!

[bks]

But of course Doreen would never have stood a chance with Richard if she had written to him trying to make him see how awful the things he did are. Richard responded to the ones who said things he wanted to hear. And supposedly one of the things that attracted him particularly to her was that she says she was a virgin. Why would a Satanist, a bloodthirsty murdurous, evil minded man like him have been so attracted to a virgin? Remember; again this is coming from the mind of someone like R.R. He could rape and molest; not knowing if he could be and was taking someone's virginity (yes, even some of his elderly female victims could have been virgins);
How mentally healthy is it that Doreen has said that when Richard is put to death; she'll kill herself? If she's such a clear thinking, strong person who knows what she is doing is right (standing by her "innocent" husband); why wouldn't she state that even after Richard's death; she'll continue to live on to defend his goodness and innocence? Makes it seem that Richard chose a woman who is not mentally well.
And don't you think that he is getting off on knowing that she has said she would kill herself after he is dead? He can't kill her himself; but it has to make him feel good that she will kill herself.
The way KFK has said that every religion thinks itself to be superior, they all think they are the right way and everyone else is wrong, it has always been this way; this is coming from someone who has stated that "Killing is killing; whether it be for duty, profit, or fun" (something that Ramirez has himself said). I would equate this attitude that killing for duty, profit, or fun to radical Islamists who kill for duty (to Allah); and for fun to people like Ramirez. Actually, the things that R.R. has done to people was to terrorize them while he was raping or sodomizing them. And terrorizing them while in the process of butchering and slaughtering them. A disturbed mind saying that "Killing is killing, whether it be for duty, profit, or fun" and then also saying that "every religion thinks it is superior, they all think they are the right way and everyone else is wrong, it has always been this way"; go figure that one out.
The only reason that I can think of that someone would not be afraid to live with R.R.; knowing that he is a brutal, cold-blooded killer; would be that they would feel safe because they think he wouldn't kill someone who is sympathic of him; someone who is supportive of him, and someone who will love him no matter what he has done or would do if he were a free man.

I feel nobody would listen if she defended RR after his death.

Suicide upon a loved one's passing is not that strange of a concept in our culture. Remember Romeo and Juliet?? Shakespeare is considered good literature. I realize, in some ways, I might not be totally what society considers "mentally well", but that puts me in the same category as a lot of people, but if I ever do marry, I hope it will be to someone who would make me want to do the same after his passing. Maybe, there are things the matter with me, but when I picture myself married to most men, the only thing I can imagine myself thinking when he passes is, "Am I entitled to some kind of benefit check, now?"

[bks]

Wind149; the KKK is another of those groups of people who are so off course. It's pathetic.
Of course KFK will never understand. She's right though; that we can never make her see our "point of view", as she calls. (To her it's a point of view; she can't see the difference between right and wrong). And she's right that we refuse to see hers. Because we can see that the victims (though they're dead because they were MURDERED) have more rights than the murderers.
There is a very good reason why I didn't mention R.R.'s family; they weren't any of his MURDER victims. Yes, there are 2 sides to every story, as she likes to say. But the victims don't get to tell theirs. People like Ramirez silenced their voices.
I speak for the victims who have been molested, raped, murdered. I do feel for the families of the criminals; but that's not who I am here to speak up for. They can tell their stories to the world; the victims of people like Ramirez can't.
Strange how people like KFK are so big on having their rights; such as having the right to write letters to criminals. And talking about the rights of people like Miss Doreen to marry R.R. But when it comes to the rights of the people R.R. savagely, brutally, sadistically tortured, raped, slaughtered; no mention whatsoever. Maybe she thinks they wouldn't have liked to stay alive, be able to write letters, and marry.
Her freedoms to choose what she wants to do, Doreen's rights to do what she wants to do, and R.R.'s rights to do something (marry) are somehow more important than the rights of the people that R.R. so callously took the lives of.
I'm 54 years old. I was once young, and I was a total music lover. My type of music was heavy metal. And I have to say that I still like it; but not today's version of heavy metal. To me, today's version is not heavy metal. The old stuff was real heavy metal. I was always aware of groupies. I saw lots of them at concerts, and I saw lots of them at the clubs I went to that had live heavy metal bands. I could see how the band members do "interact" with the groupies; but laugh at them. They're a joke to the musicians. But they do have their "usefulness" to the musicians. I think the killer groupies are the same way; the killers find a use for them. And the killer groupies are happy to be used in this way. What angels of mercy they are.
I recall a recent reply by KFK referring to people giving "lip service" to God. Wasn't it she that first referred to God by saying people should extend the same compassion and mercy to people like R.R. that God would? She can give "lip service" to God in that way, but didn't like it when I said that God does not have more compassion and mercy for killers than for their victims. That's when it became "lip service to God".
I also noticed that in one of her posts she wrote "Killing is killing, whether for duty, profit, or fun". Strange that she's quoting one of R.R.'s very quotes. Why would a person quote something that a killer like Ramirez quoted? Does it come from the same kind of mindset that Ramirez has?
By the way; killing for duty is quite different than killing for profit or fun. For Ramirez (and KFK) to state that killing for duty is the same as killing for profit or fun; is pretty frightening. Our Armed Forces (for example) are sent to war; that's quite different than killing people for profit or for the fun of it. But leave it to a cold-blooded murderer like Ramirez to say something like that.

The experience of killing has common threads, no matter what the circumstance.

[bks]

Wind149; the KKK is another of those groups of people who are so off course. It's pathetic.
Of course KFK will never understand. She's right though; that we can never make her see our "point of view", as she calls. (To her it's a point of view; she can't see the difference between right and wrong). And she's right that we refuse to see hers. Because we can see that the victims (though they're dead because they were MURDERED) have more rights than the murderers.
There is a very good reason why I didn't mention R.R.'s family; they weren't any of his MURDER victims. Yes, there are 2 sides to every story, as she likes to say. But the victims don't get to tell theirs. People like Ramirez silenced their voices.
I speak for the victims who have been molested, raped, murdered. I do feel for the families of the criminals; but that's not who I am here to speak up for. They can tell their stories to the world; the victims of people like Ramirez can't.
Strange how people like KFK are so big on having their rights; such as having the right to write letters to criminals. And talking about the rights of people like Miss Doreen to marry R.R. But when it comes to the rights of the people R.R. savagely, brutally, sadistically tortured, raped, slaughtered; no mention whatsoever. Maybe she thinks they wouldn't have liked to stay alive, be able to write letters, and marry.
Her freedoms to choose what she wants to do, Doreen's rights to do what she wants to do, and R.R.'s rights to do something (marry) are somehow more important than the rights of the people that R.R. so callously took the lives of.
I'm 54 years old. I was once young, and I was a total music lover. My type of music was heavy metal. And I have to say that I still like it; but not today's version of heavy metal. To me, today's version is not heavy metal. The old stuff was real heavy metal. I was always aware of groupies. I saw lots of them at concerts, and I saw lots of them at the clubs I went to that had live heavy metal bands. I could see how the band members do "interact" with the groupies; but laugh at them. They're a joke to the musicians. But they do have their "usefulness" to the musicians. I think the killer groupies are the same way; the killers find a use for them. And the killer groupies are happy to be used in this way. What angels of mercy they are.
I recall a recent reply by KFK referring to people giving "lip service" to God. Wasn't it she that first referred to God by saying people should extend the same compassion and mercy to people like R.R. that God would? She can give "lip service" to God in that way, but didn't like it when I said that God does not have more compassion and mercy for killers than for their victims. That's when it became "lip service to God".
I also noticed that in one of her posts she wrote "Killing is killing, whether for duty, profit, or fun". Strange that she's quoting one of R.R.'s very quotes. Why would a person quote something that a killer like Ramirez quoted? Does it come from the same kind of mindset that Ramirez has?
By the way; killing for duty is quite different than killing for profit or fun. For Ramirez (and KFK) to state that killing for duty is the same as killing for profit or fun; is pretty frightening. Our Armed Forces (for example) are sent to war; that's quite different than killing people for profit or for the fun of it. But leave it to a cold-blooded murderer like Ramirez to say something like that.

Opponent? All I am doing is spreading the truth...all you try and do is muddy it up with minutia....When have you ever seen my veins? And if you are 98 percent why not say it for the record? Maybe because you havent got a clue who I am....And if you do I EMPLORE you to say it...Anything other then my name or your guess is just another attempt to cover up your own ignorance...Now post my name...I bet you are WAY off...Anyways, How is RR's lung capacity these days....I mean how is the Old Weezer?...Still spitting up blood? Hope he can stay alive long enough to get executed, but hey, I will be happy either way, just as long as he is dead...Anyways Have a Nice Holiday Season...must get Lonely around Christmas, I mean he CANT celebrate Christmas if he "Hails Satan" that would be a conflict of interest...Not to mention those cold nights in the car in the parking lot of San Quentin...How Romantic....HAHAHA

If you really love someone, you don't love them because they are available around certain times of the year. If you are not in love with someone, the most cliched romantic setting, e.g. a candlelit intimate restaurant dinner, would mean nothing to you, at least not to me. Are we confusing love with the trappings of romance and circumstances. If your family is nonreligious (that means no Satan, either), you can feel out of it, around Christmas or other celebrations, though I've really stopped getting much of a kick out of holidays since I was a kid.

[Dave Reddoch]

Having done time myself, I know what it is like for RR to be all alone. Therefore, I am glad even someone as base as him has someone. He is one sick puppy! It just proves the old saying that for everyone there is someone. lol. No one should ever have there life so tied in with another that they would consider suicide at the other's passing. I think I would rather remain single and learn who I am. I don't need another person to be whole. I am already a complete person.

[SaraSidle]

Having done time myself, I know what it is like for RR to be all alone. Therefore, I am glad even someone as base as him has someone. He is one sick puppy! It just proves the old saying that for everyone there is someone. lol. No one should ever have there life so tied in with another that they would consider suicide at the other's passing. I think I would rather remain single and learn who I am. I don't need another person to be whole. I am already a complete person.

What a bunch of strange lengthly posts. Nice job bks. did you find the book yet Dave? That website still has not emailed me. I was undergoing all kinds of tests at the hospital today and got through the first 2 pages anyways. Think I will try the website again tomorrow.

[Drumbum]

Wow, this thread is jumpin. Heya, Sara, Dave. I have Phillip Carlo's book and I recall that as I was reading it, I found myself agreeing with Carrillo and Salerno, R.R. was a new breed and he never would have stopped. He did those things because he wanted to and it made him feel in control, important and powerful.

[Dave Reddoch]

I believe that RR is true evil. I tend to believe that RR has some kind of evil residing in him. We have all committed some sort of crime at a certain point in our lives. However, most of us has some sort of buffer that would stop us from doing such horrific crimes. These serial killers seem to lack that. It is like they are on a totally different level.
Sara, I hope all is well (you mentioned tests). As far as that book goes, I read it years ago. I live in a small fishing town on the Gulf Of Mexico,(Port Lavaca Texas) and there is only one bookstore. They do not have Carlo's book. I'll have to wait till I can get away to go in to the city.(Victoria Texas)
Anyway, I hope to read more of your posts soon.

Dave. reddoch.dave@gmail.com:read:

[SaraSidle]

Hi Drumbum and Dave, I think the test were fine. THey were general. I am so glad you like the book Drumbum. I am anxious for you to get it Dave. It is very detailed. a little slow about his childhood but then I think some of that is good info also.

[Dave Reddoch]

I seem to recall in that book that RR's dad went into a rage and hit himself in the head with a hammer! ouch!! lol Maybe watching his dad rage like that warped him. Your thoughts?:seeya:

[SaraSidle]

I seem to recall in that book that RR's dad went into a rage and hit himself in the head with a hammer! ouch!! lol Maybe watching his dad rage like that warped him. Your thoughts?:seeya:

I remember his dad was a cop or military and very strict with anger issues. It has been a few years which is why I am going to reread it.

[bks]

Having done time myself, I know what it is like for RR to be all alone. Therefore, I am glad even someone as base as him has someone. He is one sick puppy! It just proves the old saying that for everyone there is someone. lol. No one should ever have there life so tied in with another that they would consider suicide at the other's passing. I think I would rather remain single and learn who I am. I don't need another person to be whole. I am already a complete person.

Depend, at least for practical matters, no. Having your heart touched, however is a beautiful thing.

[Dave Reddoch]

I was talking about an un-healthy dependency. What you are talking about is love. I guess love could be a good thing. I only allowed myself to love someone once and it nearly destroyed me. I think being single is my preference.:seeya: What does bks stand for?

[Dave Reddoch]

:shrug: Where is everyone? Hello? Anybody out there?

[SaraSidle]

:shrug: Where is everyone? Hello? Anybody out there?

I am certainly here off and on. Not feeling well. How are you?

[Dave Reddoch]

It is a beautiful day outside. I got a sunburn. Now I'm just waiting for Monday to start another week. Why are you not feeling well? What's wrong?

Dave.

[SaraSidle]

I feel like I have the stomach flu since yesterday. I never get that!!!!!!!!!

[Dave Reddoch]

I hate stomach flu! That is awful. Be sure and drink plenty of fluids.

[SaraSidle]

I hate stomach flu! That is awful. Be sure and drink plenty of fluids.

I am drinking diet 7 up. I have had at least 2 of those 2 liter bottles. I have no desire to eat. I do not handle sick well at all. Not used to it! I hope you are not in pain from getting burnt. Put aloe on it if you are. (You probably already know that)!

[bks]

They're my initials.

[bks]

What I do when the flu really gets me miserable, is heat some water, add jello powder (gelatin performs miracles for regulating digestion), add some lemon juice, and a small spoon of honey. Take with JUST A SIP of Nyquil. (If you take a whole lot, you'll get really sleepy, but probably won't have a restful sleep.)

[SaraSidle]

What I do when the flu really gets me miserable, is heat some water, add jello powder (gelatin performs miracles for regulating digestion), add some lemon juice, and a small spoon of honey. Take with JUST A SIP of Nyquil. (If you take a whole lot, you'll get really sleepy, but probably won't have a restful sleep.)

But bks I think it is the stomach flu. what you said is what my Mom gave me when I had a cold flu. RIght now my stomach really hurts and I have bad chills. for 2 days now

[Dave Reddoch]

But bks I think it is the stomach flu. what you said is what my Mom gave me when I had a cold flu. RIght now my stomach really hurts and I have bad chills. for 2 days now

If it is the flu, it will just have to run it's course. BTW, does anyone know why Doreen never posts here anymore?

Dave. reddoch.dave@gmail.com

[SaraSidle]

If it is the flu, it will just have to run it's course. BTW, does anyone know why Doreen never posts here anymore?

Dave. reddoch.dave@gmail.com

Did you read her posts Dave? Do you know if other posters responded with negativism? If you have her email you could ask her.

[Dave Reddoch]

Did you read her posts Dave? Do you know if other posters responded with negativism? If you have her email you could ask her.

However, I never saw her e-mail address. Do you have it? I can see why people would respond with negativism. Look who she is married to. I believe I could be civil and respectful to her.

[SaraSidle]

However, I never saw her e-mail address. Do you have it? I can see why people would respond with negativism. Look who she is married to. I believe I could be civil and respectful to her.

It would be difficult to say the least. I think she is in denial IMO. I do not have it. I thought you used it to get RR address. Is she still a member? You could send a PM

[SaraSidle]

It would be difficult to say the least. I think she is in denial IMO. I do not have it. I thought you used it to get RR address. Is she still a member? You could send a PM

She is still listed as a member. only 13 posts.

[Prizm555]

I have a question about richard ramirez.

if my sources are accurate he was sentanced to death in the gas chamber, now that they have lethal injection as the main method will he still be executed in the gas chamber regardless?

[SaraSidle]

I have a question about richard ramirez.

if my sources are accurate he was sentanced to death in the gas chamber, now that they have lethal injection as the main method will he still be executed in the gas chamber regardless?

Not really sure Prizm. I have also heard rumors that he is having health issues possible involving his lungs.

[Dave Reddoch]

So therefore, RR will die by the needle. That is of course if he ever gets an execution date. Sara, I sent Doreen a post message over a month ago. No reply as of this writing.


Dave. reddoch.dave@gmail.com:seeya:

[SaraSidle]

So therefore, RR will die by the needle. That is of course if he ever gets an execution date. Sara, I sent Doreen a post message over a month ago. No reply as of this writing.


Dave. reddoch.dave@gmail.com:seeya:

Dave I am sorry. The only thing I can suggest is if you write RR ask for her email or address. Or pay money and do a search on line.

[Dave Reddoch]

:cool: :cool: Dave I am sorry. The only thing I can suggest is if you write RR ask for her email or address. Or pay money and do a search on line.

I'll send an e-mail about it.

[bks]

Well, I am not a doctor or nurse, so I can't speak responsibly about the stomach hurting. I think maybe you should call a doctor. Sometimes, aspirin or ibuprofen stops body aches, but again, I don't want to dispense medicine without a license. I've used layers of clothing and blankets for chills, but prepare to "break fever" (sweat it out), because chills really are your body's way of cooling itself down, when it is heating up. Take your temperature, and if, necessary, consult with an M.D.
Best wishes, and take care.

[SaraSidle]

Well, I am not a doctor or nurse, so I can't speak responsibly about the stomach hurting. I think maybe you should call a doctor. Sometimes, aspirin or ibuprofen stops body aches, but again, I don't want to dispense medicine without a license. I've used layers of clothing and blankets for chills, but prepare to "break fever" (sweat it out), because chills really are your body's way of cooling itself down, when it is heating up. Take your temperature, and if, necessary, consult with an M.D.
Best wishes, and take care.

Thank You. I am actually feeling better. I did have break fever and now I am just tired.

[Prizm555]

So therefore, RR will die by the needle. That is of course if he ever gets an execution date. Sara, I sent Doreen a post message over a month ago. No reply as of this writing.


Dave. reddoch.dave@gmail.com:seeya:


they still have the gas chamber but it is an option if i am correct the inmate can decide to make a choice no?

[Serial Killer X]

they still have the gas chamber but it is an option if i am correct the inmate can decide to make a choice no?

Im Pretty Sure that the Inmate Can't make the Choice But if they can there's not much to Choose from Gas Chamber Or Electric Chair. Also i thought RR Would of been executed a long time ago. Has he been on Death Row that Long :confused:

[SaraSidle]

Im Pretty Sure that the Inmate Can't make the Choice But if they can there's not much to Choose from Gas Chamber Or Electric Chair. Also i thought RR Would of been executed a long time ago. Has he been on Death Row that Long :confused:

I am not sure what is going on there. I do not know if it was appeals or his health or what it is. I have not been up on it lately. Most of what I know is from the book Nght Stalker. IMO. Serial on you posts it is a good thing when you are expressing thoughts or opinions to state that with and IMO after your post. Reduces Liability greatly and does not let you sound like an expert

[bks]

I'm glad. Just rest. : )

[SaraSidle]

I'm glad. Just rest. : )

You got it thanks

[Dave Reddoch]

You got it thanks

I was concerned. You should take plenty of vitamins(IMO lol), so you don't get sick again. Dave.

[SaraSidle]

I was concerned. You should take plenty of vitamins(IMO lol), so you don't get sick again. Dave.

LOL I will start tomorrow. been eating soft things that past couple of days.

[bks]

: )

[SaraSidle]

Hey bks hey Dave Dave have you written to RR yet?

[Serial Killer X]

I am not sure what is going on there. I do not know if it was appeals or his health or what it is. I have not been up on it lately. Most of what I know is from the book Nght Stalker. IMO. Serial on you posts it is a good thing when you are expressing thoughts or opinions to state that with and IMO after your post. Reduces Liability greatly and does not let you sound like an expert

Aww but i like sounding like an expert lol Jks thx for the tip sarah ill do that :)

[Dave Reddoch]

Hey bks hey Dave Dave have you written to RR yet?

I am planning to write him over the weekend.
Dave.

[Amy]

Im Pretty Sure that the Inmate Can't make the Choice But if they can there's not much to Choose from Gas Chamber Or Electric Chair. Also i thought RR Would of been executed a long time ago. Has he been on Death Row that Long :confused:

Folks stay on Death Row a really long time in CA prior to execution. I remember from the SPeterson case, the appeals were backed up for @ least 10 years to begin with. There are, I think, either 300+ or 600+ (sorry, can't remember which, either way, it's a large number) men on CA's Death Row.

[Dave Reddoch]

Folks stay on Death Row a really long time in CA prior to execution. I remember from the SPeterson case, the appeals were backed up for @ least 10 years to begin with. There are, I think, either 300+ or 600+ (sorry, can't remember which, either way, it's a large number) men on CA's Death Row.

As I understand it, a judge will have to set RR's execution date.

[SaraSidle]

As I understand it, a judge will have to set RR's execution date.

Anyone here about any health issues delaying also?

[Amy]

As I understand it, a judge will have to set RR's execution date.

Has any appeal been heard yet? They have to deny the appeal(s) before a date can be set. I wonder how many appeals are allowed? And how many, if any, he has had yet? I wonder if he is still "in line" to present an appeal?

[Amy]

Anyone here about any health issues delaying also?

I hadn't heard of any health issues, but then, I wouldn't know where to look. I haven't seen anything on any of the other boards. That doesn't mean there aren't any, tho.

[SaraSidle]

I hadn't heard of any health issues, but then, I wouldn't know where to look. I haven't seen anything on any of the other boards. That doesn't mean there aren't any, tho.

Amy I cannot even begin to remember where I saw it. All I remember is reading something about the deathpenalty and his health. And it was in a link or publication. Not a post or opinion. I remember that much definitely.
IMO

[Amy]

Amy I cannot even begin to remember where I saw it. All I remember is reading something about the deathpenalty and his health. And it was in a link or publication. Not a post or opinion. I remember that much definitely.
IMO

I wasn't questioning your post, I was answering it, tho. That, no I had not heard of health issues, but that I'm not computer literate enough to even begin to figure out where to look for any information.

[SaraSidle]

I wasn't questioning your post, I was answering it, tho. That, no I had not heard of health issues, but that I'm not computer literate enough to even begin to figure out where to look for any information.

I knew you were not questioning me. I am computer iliterate myself and find some by just looking around. I do not even know how to provide a link when I find an artile,pictures or videos. I just put that out there in case anyone had seen something to that effect. I feel if it was a bad source I would not have even bothered to remember it. I hope you have a great weekend if I do not talk to you again!!!!!!!!

[Dave Reddoch]

I knew you were not questioning me. I am computer iliterate myself and find some by just looking around. I do not even know how to provide a link when I find an artile,pictures or videos. I just put that out there in case anyone had seen something to that effect. I feel if it was a bad source I would not have even bothered to remember it. I hope you have a great weekend if I do not talk to you again!!!!!!!!

They sdid not have the book in stock. They said they will let me know when it arrives. I did however find a book on Gary Heidnik. He was one sick puppy! Buffalo Bill in Silence of The Lambs was loosely based on Gary Heidnik.
OK, I'm going to go research why RR is still alive. So sit tight Sara and Amy. BRB. Dave.


reddoch.dave@gmail.com

[Dave Reddoch]

Well, I found all sorts of info on why RR is still alive. Apparently, his appeals went on up the system. Now he is offering to plead insanity!! I could not find any reference to health issues. I did however find that in California, when a judge finally decides all appeals are exausted, then he will set an execution date.
IMO, you have to be careful following internet rumours. I believe the health issue to be a rumour.
Sara, I never received any e-mails from you, so it is hard for me to know where to send any info that I research.
Dave.


reddoch.dave@gmail.com:seeya:

[SaraSidle]

Check again Dave

[Serial Killer X]

They sdid not have the book in stock. They said they will let me know when it arrives. I did however find a book on Gary Heidnik. He was one sick puppy! Buffalo Bill in Silence of The Lambs was loosely based on Gary Heidnik.
OK, I'm going to go research why RR is still alive. So sit tight Sara and Amy. BRB. Dave.


reddoch.dave@gmail.com

Yeah Gary Heidnik is supposbly the 6th worst Serial Killer in the Whole World Forensic Psychiatrist Micheal Stone has made up a system on how Serial Killers are rated by the crimes that they commit. Gary Heidnik is a 22 on Stone's Scale of Evil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_Evil I'll discuss why i think he is when i get Back

[SaraSidle]

They sdid not have the book in stock. They said they will let me know when it arrives. I did however find a book on Gary Heidnik. He was one sick puppy! Buffalo Bill in Silence of The Lambs was loosely based on Gary Heidnik.
OK, I'm going to go research why RR is still alive. So sit tight Sara and Amy. BRB. Dave.


reddoch.dave@gmail.com

He was sick but I don't know if I would call him one of the worst. I hope you enjoy the new book. Hi Serialkiller. I think Dahmer,Gacy,Bundy and Ridgeway were worse. but that is only my opinion and obviously not based on the same scale. IMO

[teachercrime]

Richard Ramirez would certainly be in the top ten

[SaraSidle]

I totally agree with you. He is right up there. IMO

[Dave Reddoch]

I totally agree with you. He is right up there. IMO

However, I would have to say the worst(IMO) would be Ed Gein and Ted Bundy. I could also mention Charles Manson, but I don't think he even directly participated in the killings.
Sara, check your e-mail.:cool:

[SaraSidle]

However, I would have to say the worst(IMO) would be Ed Gein and Ted Bundy. I could also mention Charles Manson, but I don't think he even directly participated in the killings.
Sara, check your e-mail.:cool:

I do not know Dave. Ramirez and Gacy and Dahmer are pretty high up on my list. Checking:read:

[Dave Reddoch]

I do not know Dave. Ramirez and Gacy and Dahmer are pretty high up on my list. Checking:read:

It is by Patricia Cornwell. She claimed to have solved the Jack The Ripper case. Have you read much about the Zodiac? RR and the Zodiac both had the entire Los Angeles area in a panic. RR especially. I think maybe he liked all the shock value to the public. By the way, youtube is a free web-site. They have over one-hundred films of RR. If you have not checked youtube, I think you would enjoy it. www.youtube.com:seeya:

[SaraSidle]

It is by Patricia Cornwell. She claimed to have solved the Jack The Ripper case. Have you read much about the Zodiac? RR and the Zodiac both had the entire Los Angeles area in a panic. RR especially. I think maybe he liked all the shock value to the public. By the way, youtube is a free web-site. They have over one-hundred films of RR. If you have not checked youtube, I think you would enjoy it. www.youtube.com:seeya:

Thanks Dave. I have youtube on my desktop thanks to my brother. Yes I read the Patricia Cornwell book on Jack the Ripper. I have not read any books on Zodiac. But I do know they do not know who he is even though names have been thrown around and I think there are 2 of them and they might both be deceased!?!?!?!?! IMO

[SaraSidle]

I think RR was scarier because of the brutality of his attacks but at least he was caught. Zodiac kind of killed like the Son of Sam. Couples in cars. I would have avoided that if I lived in CA and he was around. But RR was lots sneakier and unpredictable. IMO